@Brother-Paul -- over these 72 yrs. -- well -- the first 5 or 6 I wasn't aware of much I'll admit. But my main background has been in a variety of Baptist churches. A Lot of them. And it's true that people plan weddings, but not funerals.
Very recently -- within past 6 months -- there have been two born again people who'se funerals, while sad to say "goodbye" -- we knew it would only be a temporary absence. We all knew we'd see them again.
A person Could apply those thoughts to performing weddings. We Want the new couple To have a wonderful , long life together. But is the officiating pastor 'lying' or the couple 'lying' when they repeat those vows -- in sickness or in healthy / for richer or poorer/ until death do we part "? Is the pastor or the one officiating the ceremony supposed to say -- well-- we know the statistics for staying married -- so -- why don't we 'promise' to stay together until we get bored with each other or until someone better looking or prettier comes along who doesn't snore so loud or has a better sense of finances, etc. or the sex is more satisfying -- or who doesn't have kids from a previous relationship?
Are those thoughts supposed to help and encourage the people / the couple?
Do we Always tell the Whole truth and nothing But the Truth? The wife who asks her husband if she Really looks good in that dress? Is he Really going to say that the color isn't really good on her or that it makes her look hippie? And , of course, there Is the 'telling the truth in love". But - in reality -- do we Always tell the complete truth?
And I Will strongly disagree with your comment that I've been protected from the world and the ways Of the world. The more a person is trying to live the Christian life the more satan is set on destroying you. Or making you an ineffective Christian. I've never lived in any protective bubble.
So -- apparently my Mom and husband and Mom's 2nd husband were in the 1 % who were not lost souls when they were cremated. I've known a very lost soul who was buried.
I realize you are saying what you're saying in a well-meaning way -- but You're Way of base. There's a Lot I Could share, but won't.
This has gotten me to do a lot of thinking -- just now -- there's a lot of symbolism involved in death. The transition from This life into the next life / eternity. Is the pastor or the person officiating at the funeral of an obviously non-saved person supposed to say '" people, loved ones of this deceased person -- he's lived a crummy life -- we know he's not in heaven -- in fact -- right now he's in Hades suffering and will spend his/ her eternal life in the lake of fire and brimstone.'" No -- because we want to think that at some last split-second time at the very end -- the person actually Did accept in his heart / believed and that he/ she is really in that better place.
Now -- in the case of my one brother-in-law -- I'm not really sure that he's in heaven -- he was a good Lutheran simply because he married a Lutheran woman. Jackie was a wonderful person , too. She's still alive. Not a bad bone in her body. But has she accepted Jesus Christ as her personal Savior? I really don't know. Daryl had commented at the time of their Dad's death that he didn't want their Dad to get preached into heaven. Daryl assumed he'd be in heaven. Based on his good works. But he Might be in Hades right along with his Dad. Daryl died of Parkinsons a few months ago. So did he 'wake up' with his Dad in Christ or in Hades. God is the only One who knows. We don't -- Won't until 'we' wake up 'with Christ'.
So -- in reality -- how Is a pastor or the person officiating a funeral Supposed to officiate. Or officiating at a Memorial Service of the person being cremated.
Dear Sue,
I part expected the pendulum to swing in a totally opposite direction to what was meant.
Lets just stick with the funeral, a pastor or celebrant.
When a person has passed away, people will remember the good things in a persons life, no matter how rotten they were when they were alive. That is what a pastor or celebrant will do, he/she will talk with the family to create a short talk about the person, picking up on the positives and leaving out any negatives. That is right and expected.
None of those things are the issue here, so lets put them aside.
The majority of services now a days is with a celebrant, not a pastor. Some pastors however, will tell the mourners, the person HAS gone to heaven, a place is prepared for them, they think they are doing right, they call it be caring, being compassionate. But to tell a lie, using scripture, is not acceptable at any time, there are other ways to deal with the situation and be caring and compassionate. Giving the living wrong ideas is never acceptable, it is the listeners that go away believing, he/she died, he/she has gone to heaven.
I have witnessed it many times at a crematorium, with a celebrant, it happened at my mother's wedding, she was never saved. Sometimes a celebrant may say well the family asked me to say that, in the situations I refer to that is not the case. The living were mislead, using scripture, and went away believing the untruth. The result is they believe it, there is only one person laughing and it is the devil!
I will also share what happened with a dear brother in Christ, he told me at the funeral of his dad, who never accepted Christ into his life, the pastor put to the living that he had using scriptures including the one in John mentioned earlier. After the service my friend approached the minister and had words, on the lines of, how dare you tell such lies to my family. The minister was real uppity, how dare you challenge me about this, he hadn't a clue. My dear brother said he was so flabbergasted he walked away and prayed for the man. It happens Sue.
Your reply above Sue is also way off what I was saying. To sum up and make clearer I add.
The person officiating the funeral will always do it in a caring, compassionate way, that is what one would expect, the point is, don't tell the listeners the deceased has gone to heaven and a place has been prepared when there is little evidence of this in their life. Now I know you will say, we cannot know for sure if a person is born again, some of that would be true. The point I am making is, they have no rights to use scripture, to make the living think a person has gone to heaven, when there is every chance of it.
We can be caring and compassionate and say things about the diseased without bringing scripture in as a feel good factor. That is the point I am making Sue.
Shalom
