Marriage in the days of Jesus

[Samson2020]

In the days of Jesus betrothals were usually arranged by an agent working on behalf of the parents.
Once the agreement had been reached, the couple are legally bound to marry one another, as a contract of betrothal was in effect.
In Jewish custom the marriage had to take place within roughly a yr.
To break off the betrothal was basically a breaking of the contract or agreement. Similar to a divorce. Even though they had not exchanged vows.
A bride price may sometimes be paid by her future husband.

A bride had rights under the contract.
1) Food
2) clothing
3) conjugal rights - to provide adequate opportunity to produce an heir.
4) Shelter etc....

The husband could not deny the wife her rights and if he did she could legally divorce him. And he would have to pay the settlement agreed to in the contract,
similar to a prenuptial agreement today.
As the bride you may have only one days notice to prepare for it was up to the husband to arrange the feast and pick the day of the wedding.

Just came across this and thought it should be shared so that when we read the words of our Lord maybe we can understand what the Jewish people thought
about what He said in relation to marriage or a wedding feast or as mentioned the price paid for the bride, and His whim as to the day of the wedding.

Some may already know these things I did not but it does explain a few things that maybe weren't as clear.

In our modern day the contract sounds more like this "Will you marry me" "Yes" OK now they are engaged and together set a time and day. Not the same.
Not even close.

 

[complete]

Betrothal and Wedding Customs at the Time of Christ​

When I read the story of Mary and how she was expecting to bear Jesus, while she was betrothed to Joseph, I am always interested in the customs of the day. Here is an overview of the betrothal and wedding customs at the time Jesus was born.

Stage 1- Betrothal
Betrothal was what we would consider an “engagement” today. The first stage of the betrothal was finding a suitable spouse for the bride or bridegroom. In the ancient Near Eastern culture, this was most often initiated by the families of the bride and groom. Though a young man could make his preference for a wife known to his family, his parents may or may not have agreed to pursue his wishes. Young men and women were pledged to each other at ages as young as twelve or thirteen.

The second stage of betrothal involved a sort of “prenuptial agreement”. Before witnesses, the young man and woman would enter into a formal betrothal. It was a legally binding contract, which gave the man legal rights over the woman. Once a couple entered this stage of betrothal, it could only be broken by a formal divorce. The terms “husband” and “wife” were used during this period, though the couple did not live together. Sexual relations were not permitted during this time, and if one was found to be unfaithful to the other, it was considered adultery. At the time of Jesus’ birth, adultery was punishable by stoning. Also, if one of the young people died, the other would be considered a “widow” or “widower”.

Stage 2- Wedding
The length of betrothal was generally about a year. The wedding was a special ceremony. Both bride and bridegroom wore special wedding clothes. The wedding started with a procession of the groom and his companions to the bride’s home. The company would then escort the bride and her companions back to the groom’s home where there would be a special supper prepared. During this celebration, the parents and friends blessed the couple and the father of the bride drew up a written marriage contract. The couple would then be escorted to a special “bridal chamber” where the marriage would be consummated. As prescribed in the Old Testament, evidence of the bride’s virginity would then be given. Marriage festivities continued for up to a week.

https://www.families.com/betrothal-and-wedding-customs-at-the-time-of-christ

 

[complete]

John 8:3-11
'And the scribes and Pharisees
brought unto Him a woman taken in adultery;
and when they had set her in the midst,
They say unto Him, "Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned:
but what sayest thou?"
This they said, tempting Him, that they might have to accuse Him.'

Hello there

I have always been intrigued by the way the Lord dealt with this incident, and it is only within recent years that I have understood it.
The question seemed straight forward enough, requiring only a yes or no answer. So why should it be used as a means of temptation? How could the Lord fail to answer the question correctly, according to the law? I did not know how this could be called a trick question, one which could trip Him up sufficiently to give the Scribes and Pharisees something by which they could accuse Him.

The answer lies in their words, 'Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned', for this 'law' referred only to 'a betrothed damsel' (Deut. 22:23-24); ...

'If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband,
and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city,
and ye shall stone them with stones that they die;
the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city;
and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife:
so thou shalt put away evil from among you.'

... and to show that the Lord knew their thoughts, and knew also that this was another man's 'wife'. He complied with the law prescribed in 'such' a case, (Numbers 5:11-31), and stooped down and wrote the curses (as required in v.23) on the ground. ...

'And the priest shall write these curses in a book,
and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:'
(Num 5:23)

... The temptation was in the word, 'such', and of two cases they mention the punishment without defining what it was: for the one in Deuteronomy 22:23-24 (re., a virgin) the death was stoning; but in the case of a 'wife' the punishment was not stoning, but required a special procedure (Num. 5:11-31) which left the punishment with God.

'But Jesus stooped down,
and with His finger wrote on the ground,
as though He heard them not.'
(John 8:6b)

So by writing on the ground the Lord was in fact indicating that He knew the truth concerning this woman, not only in regard to her state as, 'a betrothed damsel', and not 'a wife', but also knew the procedure required in such a case, which was to leave the punishment with God.

So when they continued asking Him, He lifted up Himself, and said unto them,
He that is without sin among you, let Him first cast a stone at her.
And again He stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one,
beginning at the eldest, even unto the last:
and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
When Jesus had lifted up Himself, and saw none but the woman,
He said unto her, "Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?"
She said, "No man, Lord." And Jesus said unto her, "Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more."'
(John 8:7-11)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ref:- 'The Companion Bible' marginal notes.

 

[Hekuran]

Also, they were under Roman occupation at the time and only the Roman authorities could exercise the death penalty. No doubt, if Jesus said "stone her" the news that he had usurped Rome's authority would travel very quickly to Herod and Pilate and the Jewish leaders would have their excuse to take Jesus out of circulation.

 

[Samson2020]

How are we to gain understanding regarding this verse considering what the Jewish custom was in the day.

2 Co 11:2 For I am jealous for you with Godly jealousy. For I have BETROTHED YOU to one husband, that I may present you a chaste virgin
to Christ.

 

[Samson2020]

How are we to gain understanding regarding this verse considering what the Jewish custom was in the day.

2 Co 11:2 For I am jealous for you with Godly jealousy. For I have BETROTHED YOU to one husband, that I may present you a chaste virgin
to Christ.

Here it is.
2 Co 2:3 But i fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by His craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the SIMPLICITY THAT IS
IN CHRIST.

The Corinthians and everybody else that had heard the Gospel of their salvation, were then betrothed to Christ, simply by hearing the word of truth.

The wedding, and consummation thereafter, As per Jewish tradition, were at the whim of the grooms side once the betrothal was in effect.
Once God gifts the faith necessary to believe, you then as a betrothed that has heard the word of truth, believe, and are then baptized
in the Holy Ghost and have become a part of the body of Christ. The new creature within you is Christ in your heart(spirit) in seed form. Gal 4:6
Similar to a conception, but this baby can speak to His Father from the moment of conception.

Simply put when one hears the word of truth they are betrothed to Christ, the moment they believe is strictly up to the Father to give them
the faith necessary(remove blinders, soften the heart) to believe what they heard and they receive Christ, not accept, but receive as a gift.

Jas 1:18 Of His own will begat He us, THROUGH THE WORD OF TRUTH, that we should be a kind of FIRST FRUITS OF His creatures. (sons)
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.

Hearing the word is the betrothing, the faith that enables one to believe is entirely Gods election. And as He owns all then He decides when
any individual will receive Christ, via graced heart faith.

John 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
John 17:11 ..............Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

It really is just that simple.

It is an election according to grace, a wedding betrothal consummated at the time of Gods choosing into the body of Christ.
As in Adam All die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in His own order........... The order belongs to the Father of the groom.

 

[complete]

This is a misuse of Scripture, Samson2020.

 

[B-A-C]

As in Adam All die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in His own order........... The order belongs to the Father of the groom.

The question isn't whether everyone will come back to life or not...

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

It's where they will spend eternity.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

This is a misuse of Scripture, Samson2020.

Anyone can take a scripture with a certain word in it out of context. Just because it has the same word, doesn't mean it's the same context.

Jdg 16:20; She said, "The Philistines are upon you, Samson!" And he awoke from his sleep and said, "I will go out as at other times and shake myself free." But he did not know that the LORD had departed from him.

Well the Bible says the Lord departed from Samson, and he didn't even know it. I guess that means the Lord has departed from anyone who calls themself Samson.

 

[Samson2020]

The question isn't whether everyone will come back to life or not...

Acts 24:15; having a hope in God, which these men cherish themselves, that there shall certainly be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

It's where they will spend eternity.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.


Anyone can take a scripture with a certain word in it out of context. Just because it has the same word, doesn't mean it's the same context.

Jdg 16:20; She said, "The Philistines are upon you, Samson!" And he awoke from his sleep and said, "I will go out as at other times and shake myself free." But he did not know that the LORD had departed from him.

Well the Bible says the Lord departed from Samson, and he didn't even know it. I guess that means the Lord has departed from anyone who calls themself Samson.

I would love to hear both of your explanations as to how Paul could be so bold as to say he had betrothed anyone to Christ.
And as betrothed they are then waiting on there groom to pick the wedding date.
And in your explanation don’t forget that the father of both the bride and the groom is God.
And as such He is the arranger of the betrothal.

PS the use of Samson is merely an email so let’s not go there it’s pretty petty.

 

[B-A-C]

PS the use of Samson is merely an email so let’s not go there it’s pretty petty.

as petty as taking everything else out of context.

I would love to hear both of your explanations as to how Paul could be so bold as to say he had betrothed anyone to Christ.
And as betrothed they are then waiting on there groom to pick the wedding date.

The wedding hasn't happened yet, and when it does there will be a feast, a ceremony.

 

[Samson2020]

as petty as taking everything else out of context.



The wedding hasn't happened yet, and when it does there will be a feast, a ceremony.

Then explain why we who have the spirit already have been empowered to bring forth a son of God?
Without being born again the empowerment hasn’t happened. We who are the bride of Christ are no longer the betrothed as we have already conceived of Christ. There is a difference between a chaste betrothed virgin and a bride that is bringing forth a son.

 

[Samson2020]

And the question still remains unanswered as to how Paul betrothed anyone.

 

[B-A-C]

And the question still remains unanswered as to how Paul betrothed anyone.

Betrothed doesn't mean married. It's closer to engaged. Nobody is married to Jesus yet.

Simply put when one hears the word of truth they are betrothed to Christ,

No.

Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

2Cor 11:1; I wish that you would bear with me in a little foolishness; but indeed you are bearing with me.
2Cor 11:2; For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.
2Cor 11:3; But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
2Cor 11:4; For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.

So that he "might", not so that he "definitely will". In fact he is concerned they will be "led astray". He even mentions that they like Israel ( over a dozen times in the Old Testament ) might be unfaithful and accept a different gospel.

Rev 19:6; Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.
Rev 19:7; "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."
Rev 19:8; It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Rev 19:9; Then he *said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he *said to me, "These are true words of God."

Matt 22:9; 'Go therefore to the main highways, and as many as you find there, invite to the wedding feast.'
Matt 22:10; "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered together all they found, both evil and good; and the wedding hall was filled with dinner guests.
Matt 22:11; "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
Matt 22:12; and he *said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.
Matt 22:13; "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, and throw him into the outer darkness; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
Matt 22:14; "For many are called, but few are chosen."

 

[Samson2020]

Betrothed doesn't mean married. It's closer to engaged. Nobody is married to Jesus yet.

I realize that betrothal is not married. It is an arrangement between the parents of the bride to be and the groom. As explained in the first post.

The betrothal, is done by the hearing of the word of truth. The marriage to the individual (feminine spirit) within the human occurs when one
mixes God given faith to the one He elects, with what they heard.
Faith cometh by hearing, that is, hearing the good news about Christ.

Two components, betrothal(hearing the word of their salvation) and faith to believe create a new spirit birth in Gods elect. And all done by Him. For He prepares the vessels to preach the truth of salvation and sends them as fellow laborers in His field (the world).
The newly conceived spiritual child within the human body is a son(huios-masculine) of God, the son(huios) of God does not Marry the
Son(huios-masculine) of God. It was a spiritual begetting at the moment the word was mixed with faith.

Psa 34:2 My soul shall make HER boast in the Lord.

Matt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

You did quote something that I would like to use here as well.

Matt 22:11; "But when the king came in to look over the dinner guests, he saw a man there who was not dressed in wedding clothes,
Matt 22:12; and he *said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without wedding clothes?' And the man was speechless.

Rev 19:8; It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.

Did you notice the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints that was GIVEN to her. The one who did not have the wedding clothes had none for
it was not GIVEN to him. No righteous acts.

I know you see literal translations of everything with no spiritual lense to see through, so I probably waste my time trying but there is no actual marriage
between Jesus and His brethren once they are truly His resurrected brethren, full blown sons of God. Matt 22:30
He is the King and they are His kings, He is the High Priest and they are His priests, these titles are all for masculine gendered spirits.
No levitical female priests, no female kings, and there are no Spiritual female priests or kings either.

Conception of a son of God occurs at the time of the Baptism in the Holy Ghost, the new creature is empowered to become a son of God.
And because ye are sons(huios), God hath sent forth the spirit of His Son(huios) into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Jesus was born a man. 41st generation from Abraham. At His baptism at Jordan the Spirit of God descended on Him and remained. This additional
birth for Him was His very own spiritual conception, of a feminine spirit from God, just as all of us,(he partook of flesh and blood because His brethren
did the same) It was at that moment that He(JC) became the 42nd generation from Abraham. That was the very first and only spiritually begotten Son
of God. He was matured and perfected by the things He suffered. And was declared to be the Son of God with power, by the spirit of holiness,
by the resurrection from the dead.
Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to see the kingdom a MAN must be born of the Spirit. When Jesus was born of the Spirit, the heavens were
opened to Him, thus He saw the kingdom for He had no carnal veil. We on the other hand see through a glass darkly for we still have carnality.
When Jesus was glorified the life that was given to Him is the same life that He gives to us in seed form(conception), we as new born babes
must mature through suffering(carry our own cross) unto becoming a resurrected son with power just as He.

If you can see the kingdom then you have already been born again, and your personal marriage has already taken place for the new creature in
you is a product of the Spirit of God(life) and your spirit joining.
1 Co 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one in Spirit with Him.
Eph 5:31-32For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined to his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
If you are joined to the Lord then you are one in spirit with the Lord as with a husband and a wife being one in the flesh.

Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

Who prepares the soil? Not the individual, for we are Gods field.
1Co 3:9 For we are Gods fellow workers; you are Gods field, you are Gods building.
Those who stumble at the word were appointed to stumble. 1 Pe 2:8

So that he "might", not so that he "definitely will". In fact he is concerned they will be "led astray". He even mentions that they like Israel ( over a dozen times in the Old Testament ) might be unfaithful and accept a different gospel.

I like the way you cherry pick a version that uses the word you like best to cast doubt on the issue. Might is used in roughly 30% of translations,
while may is used in the other 70%.
Led astray as to another Jesus? My sheep know my voice and another they will not follow.
The espoused virgin does not know Her husbands voice in the intimate way the HG resides in the bride. Thus the bride who knows the voice of
her husband will not follow another.
Paul just as us did not know who God would elect so He espoused everyone just in case. Those led astray as pointed out above are stumblers at the
word as they were appointed. Paul would not know which of those he preached the word of truth too were of that group.

Just so were clear, I do without a doubt know that the Son of God, Jesus Christ, is my Lord and Savior, I have heard His voice and done many things
that He has asked me to do. I know that He knows me and that the Holy Spirit resides in me for I have spoken in an unknown language
since my baptism in it, and it was an amazing experience, there is no more believing as I am a knower. I believe in One God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ, One Lord, one faith, and one baptism.
We are not enemies just have different perspectives, literal vs spiritual. I am no church goer for I am part of the true church, and it is nearly impossible
to be with fellow brethren as they seem to be captured by the organizations and refuse to be separated unto the Lord. No sanctification.
Most every doctrine espoused by those groups is 180 degrees backward, and is good reason for the Lord to tell them to come out of her.
Will they listen? We will see.
In the early days of having been born again the Lord mentioned to me that He was being stabbed in the back so to speak, I didn't really
understand that at the time, but as I said earlier the doctrines of today are most always 180 degrees backwards of the truth. This is the stabbing
in the back that leads one astray for they are repeating/believing the lies they learned from the organizations instead of being sanctifed by learning
the truth from the Holy Spirit within them. They have given up their birth right which is to know the truth, all of it, by being a student of the HG.

 

[B-A-C]

Psa 34:2 My soul shall make HER boast in the Lord.

What translation is this? None of my Bibles say this.

Psalms 34:2
(AMPC) My life makes its boast in the Lord; let the humble and afflicted hear and be glad.
(ASV) My soul shall make her boast in Jehovah: The meek shall hear thereof, and be glad.
(BSB) My soul boasts in the LORD; let the oppressed hear and rejoice.
(CSB) I will boast in the LORD; the humble will hear and be glad.
(ESV) My soul makes its boast in the LORD; let the humble hear and be glad.
(GNB) I will praise him for what he has done; may all who are oppressed listen and be glad!
(GW) My soul will boast about the LORD. Those who are oppressed will hear it and rejoice.
(HCSB) I will boast in the LORD; the humble will hear and be glad.
(Hebrew OT) אברכה את־יהוה בכל־עת תמיד תהלתו בפי׃
(Hebrew OT+) אברכהH1288 אתH853 יהוהH3068 בכלH3605 עתH6256 תמידH8548 תהלתוH8416 בפי׃H6310
(JUB) My soul shall glory in the LORD; the meek shall hear of this, and be glad.
(KJV) My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.
(MKJV) My soul shall make its boast in Jehovah; the humble shall hear and be glad.
(MSG) I live and breathe GOD; if things aren't going well, hear this and be happy:
(NAS77) My soul shall make its boast in the LORD; The humble shall hear it and rejoice.
(NAS95) My soul will make its boast in the LORD; The humble will hear it and rejoice.
(NIrV) I will honor the LORD. Let those who are hurting hear and be joyful.
(NIV) I will glory in the LORD; let the afflicted hear and rejoice.
(NKJV) My soul shall make its boast in the LORD; The humble shall hear of it and be glad.

The betrothal, is done by the hearing of the word of truth.

It still as wrong as the first time you said it.

Just because you hear the word doesn't mean you receive it.

Matt 13:13; "Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Matt 13:14; "In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, 'YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE;
Mark 4:12; so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN."
Luke 8:10; And He said, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is in parables, so that SEEING THEY MAY NOT SEE, AND HEARING THEY MAY NOT UNDERSTAND.

1 Co 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one in Spirit with Him.

OK, but that has nothing to do with being married.

1Co 3:9 For we are Gods fellow workers; you are Gods field, you are Gods building.

OK, but that has nothing to do with marriage.

Led astray as to another Jesus? My sheep know my voice and another they will not follow.

Perhaps, but...
Matt 18:12; "What do you think? If any man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go and search for the one that is straying?
Acts 20:29; "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;

Again, this has nothing to do with marriage.... ( in the days of Jesus )

 

[B-A-C]

I like the way you cherry pick a version that uses the word you like best to cast doubt on the issue. Might is used in roughly 30% of translations,
while may is used in the other 70%.

All verses are from the same translation, unless as in the previous post, I'm doing a comparison.
But may or might doesn't matter. Something may happen, or it might happen. Either way it doesn't mean it will definitely happen.

 

[B-A-C]

I realize that betrothal is not married

Perhaps, but you keep bringing up 2Cor 11:2; in a thread about "marriage" in the days of Jesus.

 

[Samson2020]

What translation is this? None of my Bibles say this.
(KJV) My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.

It still as wrong as the first time you said it.

Just because you hear the word doesn't mean you receive it.

Nobody said you receive salvation yet but you've heard the good news now so that faith can come, "faith cometh by hearing"
As it is an election according to grace when faith finally does arrive as a gift from the Father the marriage(spiritual) occurs.

1 Co 6:17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one in Spirit with Him.

It is the spiritual union of you and the Lord. Marriage in spirit. Paul did say this was a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church right?

1Co 3:9 For we are Gods fellow workers; you are Gods field, you are Gods building.

This was in response to the following

Luke 8:13; "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.

I said the soil was Gods, to make un-rocky at His bidding for the heart is the soil here and He is the one who un-hardens it so it can receive the good seed. In whatsoever order He chooses.

Perhaps, but you keep bringing up 2Cor 11:2; in a thread about "marriage" in the days of Jesus.

Yes it was used to provoke thought as to why Paul would say that he hath betrothed, not married you to one Husband (Christ)

The intro was to set the stage for the customs of the Jewish peoples in that day when He was on the earth, then what followed was the spiritual reality of the physical reality according to Jewish tradition.

Lets agree to let this go for it obviously is not going well.

I would ask of you one thing.
Since we all came out from God Psa 90:1-2 and were with Him prior to the formation of the world, and as He promised us eternal life prior
to that Tit 1:2 do you really believe in your heart that He is going to roast His own children in a never ending fire, and that He lied?
He is the one from whence you came and not of your own will, you are here because He wants sons, not to test you as to whether you choose
Satan or Him. He bothered to create all that we see, even our bodies,so that we would learn from this earthly experience in sin and death,
and after that process is complete for each of us we are to return to Him in His order unto the life promised by Him before we were placed here.
1 Co 15:22-23
He did mention burning children in the fire in 2 Ki 17:31 2 Ki 23:10 2 Ch 28:3 and others, these are what was done to actual human children,
in worship of pagan Gods, you really think that that is who your God is? a Pagan. He punished people for that very thing then those doctrines of
damnation assign that very quality to Him. Seriously? And that is exactly what Peter speaks to in 2 Pe 2:1
denying the Lord that bought them. If He bought them they are His and He will have all be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth
for that is His Fathers will.
Jas 1:18 states that: "Of His own will begat He us" there goes free will to choose. You are born again because that is Gods will for you.
through the word of truth- your salvation from death was paid for by Jesus Christs cross. Not your acceptance, it is a gift period.
"That we/us should be a kind of FIRST FRUITS of His creatures."
Since the first fruits were begotten of Him according to His own will, and not anything to do with your choices, what prevents Him from begetting anybody else as second fruits or third fruits etc...........nothing because it is done for you/them by Him.
Your working out whether you become the greatest or the least in the kingdom is another topic.
Rightly dividing the word.

 

[hopefulson]

Hello there

I have always been intrigued by the way the Lord dealt with this incident, and it is only within recent years that I have understood it.
The question seemed straight forward enough, requiring only a yes or no answer. So why should it be used as a means of temptation? How could the Lord fail to answer the question correctly, according to the law? I did not know how this could be called a trick question, one which could trip Him up sufficiently to give the Scribes and Pharisees something by which they could accuse Him.

The answer lies in their words, 'Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned', for this 'law' referred only to 'a betrothed damsel' (Deut. 22:23-24); ...

'If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband,
and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city,
and ye shall stone them with stones that they die;
the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city;
and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife:
so thou shalt put away evil from among you.'

... and to show that the Lord knew their thoughts, and knew also that this was another man's 'wife'. He complied with the law prescribed in 'such' a case, (Numbers 5:11-31), and stooped down and wrote the curses (as required in v.23) on the ground. ...

'And the priest shall write these curses in a book,
and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:'
(Num 5:23)

... The temptation was in the word, 'such', and of two cases they mention the punishment without defining what it was: for the one in Deuteronomy 22:23-24 (re., a virgin) the death was stoning; but in the case of a 'wife' the punishment was not stoning, but required a special procedure (Num. 5:11-31) which left the punishment with God.

'But Jesus stooped down,
and with His finger wrote on the ground,
as though He heard them not.'
(John 8:6b)

So by writing on the ground the Lord was in fact indicating that He knew the truth concerning this woman, not only in regard to her state as, 'a betrothed damsel', and not 'a wife', but also knew the procedure required in such a case, which was to leave the punishment with God.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ref:- 'The Companion Bible' marginal notes.

That is excellent!!

 

[Bill]

Hello there

I have always been intrigued by the way the Lord dealt with this incident, and it is only within recent years that I have understood it.
The question seemed straight forward enough, requiring only a yes or no answer. So why should it be used as a means of temptation? How could the Lord fail to answer the question correctly, according to the law? I did not know how this could be called a trick question, one which could trip Him up sufficiently to give the Scribes and Pharisees something by which they could accuse Him.

The answer lies in their words, 'Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned', for this 'law' referred only to 'a betrothed damsel' (Deut. 22:23-24); ...

'If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband,
and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;
Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city,
and ye shall stone them with stones that they die;
the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city;
and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife:
so thou shalt put away evil from among you.'

... and to show that the Lord knew their thoughts, and knew also that this was another man's 'wife'. He complied with the law prescribed in 'such' a case, (Numbers 5:11-31), and stooped down and wrote the curses (as required in v.23) on the ground. ...

'And the priest shall write these curses in a book,
and he shall blot them out with the bitter water:'
(Num 5:23)

... The temptation was in the word, 'such', and of two cases they mention the punishment without defining what it was: for the one in Deuteronomy 22:23-24 (re., a virgin) the death was stoning; but in the case of a 'wife' the punishment was not stoning, but required a special procedure (Num. 5:11-31) which left the punishment with God.

'But Jesus stooped down,
and with His finger wrote on the ground,
as though He heard them not.'
(John 8:6b)

So by writing on the ground the Lord was in fact indicating that He knew the truth concerning this woman, not only in regard to her state as, 'a betrothed damsel', and not 'a wife', but also knew the procedure required in such a case, which was to leave the punishment with God.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ref:- 'The Companion Bible' marginal notes.

It is because of this, the Laws of Moses, that Joseph knew he could never finalize the marriage by having children with Mary. To do so would be adultry.