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Matthew 12:40

james1523,

re: "The 3 days and 3 nights is not to be considered literally."

Then you would think that there would be at least one actual example from the first century or before regarding a period of time that was said to consist of a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specific number of days and at least a part of each one of the specific number of nights.



re: "Jesus was crucified on the Friday, as clearly stated in Mark 15:42 (day before the Sabbath, which is Friday):..."

As judge not touched on, how can you be absolutely certain that the "preparation" mentioned in Mark 15:42 wasn't referring to the preparation for the passover as stated in John 19:14 - "Now it was the preparation day of the passover..."?
 


re: "Jesus's concept of 3 days was this: Today , tomorrow and the next day."

He's referring to calendar days. He doesn't say anything about day times AND night times contained in those calendar days as He specifically does in Matthew 12:40. If He knew that He was only going to be 2 nights in the tomb, why do you suppose He specifically said that it would be 3 nights?

Also, Matthew 27:63 and Mark 8:31 say that He would rise "after" three days. And Luke 24:21 indicates that the crucifixion couldn't have occurred any later than the 5th day of the week.


Regarding "on" or "after" 3 days

Most verses in the bible state that Jesus rose "on" the third day, (e.g. Luke 18:33, 1 Cor 15:4). And 1 Cor 15:4 explicitly states that scripture says it is "on" the third day. The prophecy in Hosea 6:2 also says "on" the third day. So what about the verses that say "after", are they contradicting? No because "after" and "on" mean the same thing and are used interchangeably, because part days are counted as whole days. This is also seen in 2 Chron 10:5 which says "after" 3 days, but verse 12 says it occurred "on" the third day. So "after" 3 days can mean "after the 3rd day has started", and mean the same thing as "on" the third day.

Regarding "days and nights"

Possible explanation #1:

Part days represented a complete 24 hour period (day and night). Thus, a few hours into a day, can be referred to as "day and night". Friday is the first day, Saturday is the second day, and Sunday is the third day. Now "days" and "days and nights" can mean the same thing, and we should not think they are two different time periods because they can be used interchangeably as other scriptures: 1 Sam 30:12,13.. Gen 7:12, 17, Esther 4:15-16, 5:1 show.

Possible explanation #2:

"days and nights" is a Jewish expression to mean that something will occur with certainty and definiteness, and is not meant to be taken as a literal time period of 72 hours. A scriptural example is Esther 4:15-16 where it says she would go to the king after 3 days and 3 nights of fasting.. but it was ON the third day (5:1) that she went. To say they would fast for 3 days and nights, places additional emphasis on the fasting, and does not impose a 72 hour time period on the event.

So when Jesus said He would be dead for 3 days and 3 nights.. he meant he would certainly and emphatically be dead. It comes from an ancient idea that the soul took 3 days and nights to travel to the after-life, and he used this expression to ensure they understood he would certainly be dead and it would be near impossible for him to come back to life. To raise someone from the dead was not unheard of, Jesus was not the first person to rise from the dead.. but he was the first and only person to rise from the dead after "3 days and nights", meaning to raise someone who was truly dead for 3 days and nights, to bring their soul back from the afterlife was unheard of and would truly be a miracle.

Possible explanation #3:
The first day is not when Jesus was crucified and placed in the tomb, but when Jesus's suffering started, as Luke 9:22, Matt 17:22 and Mark 10:34 seems to indicate. It is a misconception that "heart of the earth" means the tomb. The expression "heart of the Earth" can refer to when Jesus's suffering started, when he was betrayed on the Thursday night and in the Garden of Gethsemane. Jesus taking the penalty for our sins did not start when he died on the cross and placed in the tomb, but when he was betrayed, rejected, beaten, mocked, whipped etc and the blood started to flow (Isaiah 53:5). In this way the crucifixion can still occur on the Friday, and Jesus spends literal 3 days and 3 nights (72 hours) bearing our sins, or in the "heart of the earth".

That "heart of the Earth" can refer to when Jesus bore our sins.. is proved by the verses that show that the Earth is man's heart (see parable of lazy servant who buried his talents in the Earth, i.e. kept his giftings to himself in his heart") and 1 Cor 15:47 that Adam was a man of the earth. So for Jesus to be in the heart of the Earth means he was a man bearing the sins of the world for 3 days and 3 nights starting with his suffering, not with his death.
 
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Regarding the passage of scripture Mathew 12:40....This is what is being communicated here.....as I see it.

The verse indicates that Jonah was dead for three days and was resurrected as a true type of Jesus. If this be not the case, then he could not be a true a true sign of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Nothing is said about Jonah being preserved alive in the whale's belly.

Christ was dead for three full days and for three full nights. He was put in the grave Wednesday just before sunset and was resurrected and the end of Saturday at sunset. Good Friday should be changed to Good Wednesday. No statement says that He was buried Friday at sunset.
 
This is an issue of not understanding the expressions of speech and culture and the thinking about time in the ancient era. To interpret the bible in our modern mindset then can lead to the wrong conclusions.

I should also add that it was the universally held belief by all Christians since the 1st century that Jesus was crucified on a Friday, and rose on a Sunday. So if we change this day we are in effect breaking with church tradition and history.
 
This is an issue of not understanding the expressions of speech and culture and the thinking about time in the ancient era. To interpret the bible in our modern mindset then can lead to the wrong conclusions.

I should also add that it was the universally held belief by all Christians since the 1st century that Jesus was crucified on a Friday, and rose on a Sunday. So if we change this day we are in effect breaking with church tradition and history.


So be it...dear friend....Suc h are my thoughts.


But I question.........Have you met Him...........If not all debate is vain.

'talkjesus' is the forum here..........Essential............. to be associatesd with the Master!
 
So be it...dear friend....Suc h are my thoughts.


But I question.........Have you met Him...........If not all debate is vain.

'talkjesus' is the forum here..........Essential............. to be associatesd with the Master!

Yes brother I am one spirit with Christ.
 
james1523,

re: "... it was the universally held belief by all Christians since the 1st century that Jesus was crucified on a Friday..."

What writing do you have from the 1st century that claims that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week?




re: "...'after' and 'on' mean the same thing and are used interchangeably..."

OK, let's go with the idea that on the third day can mean after the third day. That fits nicely with Matthew 12:40, Matthew 27:83, Mark 8:31 and Luke 24:21, all of which require a crucifixion before the 6th day of the week.
 
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I extend a warm greeting to the sabbatarians.

I have gathered together most of the verses in the New Testament,
that relate to the crucifixion and the resurrection of the Christ. In
order to highlight on which specific Jewish days of the week these events
took place.

There is one particular verse that very clearly leaves no doubt about
the chronology of the death and ressurection of the Christ. I have added
an explanation to this verse to emphasize its importance.

One should be aware that in each of the four Gospels the specific timing
is given, this has been done to extinguish this debate. God knew that some
would dig there heals in on this very point. Hence, the ceaseless debate on
this minor aspect of chronology, when the greater importance is the reconciliation
itself. Further, the day that the risen Christ is visible, is seen, is the very day
of the resurrection, please make a note of this point.


Matthew 28
1 Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
2 And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred, for an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it.
3 And his appearance was like lightning, and his clothing as white as snow.
4 The guards shook for fear of him and became like dead men.
5 The angel said to the women, Do not be afraid; for I know that you are looking for Jesus who has been crucified.
6 He is not here, for He has risen, just as He said. Come, see the place where He was lying.
7 Go quickly and tell His disciples that He has risen from the dead; and behold, He is
going ahead of you into Galilee, there you will see Him; behold, I have told you.

The two women arrived at the tomb after the sabbath, on the first day.

Mark 16
1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and
Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.
2 Very early on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen.

On the first day of the week, Sunday, the two women came to the tomb.

Mark 16
9 Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary
Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.

Jesus appears, is visible, is seen, by the two women on Sunday, the first day of the week.


Luke 24
1 But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the
spices which they had prepared.

The two women arrive at the tomb on Sunday, on the first day of the week.

John 20:1
Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was
still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.

On the first day, on Sunday.

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread,

Disciples of Jesus gathered together on Sunday.

1 Corinthians 16:2
On the first day of every week each one of you is to put aside and save,

Again, the disciples gathered together on the eighth day.

Now we have arrived at a vital verse, the verse that should eliminate
any contention about the chronology. I will preceed this verse with
some commentary on a term used in this verse. Which should eliminate
any doubt as to which day of the week Jesus rose from the dead and
became visible.


This verse mentions the "day of preparation", this preparation was
the day before the sabbath day.

John 19
31 Since it was the day of Preparation, and so that the bodies would not remain on the
cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their
legs might be broken and that they might be taken away.
32 So the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first, and of the other who had been crucified with him.
33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that he was already dead, they did not break his legs.

Those who read the scripture carefully will notice that Jesus was already dead on
the preparation day, Friday. The soldiers saw that Jesus was already dead on Friday,
so it is very likely that Jesus had died during the night on the previous day, thursday.
There is no doubt that God has specified the strict chronology in this verse.
God has pulled the rug from under the feet of the legalists.


Let's count the days shall we, dead on friday, dead on saturday, raised on sunday.
That is why the verses above signal the first day of the week!
God is adamant that the first day is the day of the resurrection.

It should also be noted that Jesus rose on the third day, not after three days.

Matthew 16:21
...and be raised up on the third day.

Matthew 17:23
...and He will be raised on the third day.

Matthew 20:19
...and on the third day He will be raised up.

Matthew 27:64
Therefore, give orders for the grave to be made secure until the third day.

Luke 9:22
...and be killed and be raised up on the third day.

Luke 13:22
...today and tomorrow, and the third day I reach My goal.

Luke 18:33
...they will kill Him; and the third day He will rise again.

Acts 10:40
GOD RAISED HIM UP ON THE THIRD DAY AND GRANTED THAT HE BECAME VISIBLE.

Jesus was visible on Sunday, not Saturday. That is why the scripture pronounces
the "first day" so often. The first day was clearly the third day of the resurrection.
It is the day when Jesus is visible!!!
 
Hello DHC I have a question for you. Show me in the Bible where God tells us to worship Him on Ressurection Day?
 
james1523,


re: "... it was the universally held belief by all Christians since the 1st century that Jesus was crucified on a Friday..."


What writing do you have from the 1st century that claims that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week?


According to the Didache, Christians fasted on the preparation (Friday) coinciding with the crucifixion:
"But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites; Matthew 6:16 for they fast on the second and fifth day of the week; but fast on the fourth day and the Preparation (Friday)."


Justin Martyr (150 AD) also believed Jesus was crucified on the Friday:
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples... (First Apology 67).


I just came across another verse that shows crucifixion on the Friday. After Jesus was buried the women prepared for the 7th day Sabbath:
Luke 23:55 The women who had come with Jesus from Galilee followed Joseph and saw the tomb and how his body was laid in it.
Luke 23:56 Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.


This preparation day was always the day before the 7th day Sabbath and never before a non-7th day Sabbath (Mat 27:62, Mk 15:42, Lk 23:54, Jn 19:14, 19:31).
 
Consider!

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14 For I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of Judah: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him.
15 I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.


1 Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
 
Hello DHC I have a question for you. Show me in the Bible where God tells us to worship Him on Ressurection Day?

Acts 20:7
On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread,

Matthew 26:26While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples,
and said, "Take, eat; this is My body."

New Covenant, New Day, we celebrate the Lord's resurrection on the first day.


 
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DHC,

re: "Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread..."


Even if "breaking bread" always meant "the Lord's Supper" (and there is no proof that is does), Acts 2:46 says that the believers broke bread every day. In this case the need for any specialness being placed on the first day because of breaking bread would be eliminated.


re: "...we celebrate the Lord's resurrection on the first day."

Many do, but I'm not aware of any scripture that directs that practice.
 
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DHC,

re: "Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread..."


Even if "breaking bread" always meant "the Lord's Supper" (and there is no proof that is does), Acts 2:46 says that the believers broke bread every day. In this case the need for any specialness being placed on the first day because of breaking bread would be eliminated.

I think you are correct, there is no rule that says we must break bread once a week or on a Sunday.

But they broke bread on first day of the week (Acts 20:7). This tradition has continued until today.

Breaking bread on the resurrection day has more significance than on any other day. This is because breaking bread on resurrection day symbolizes that all Christians are one body living in resurrection and ascension with Christ. This is a strong testimony to the world.

Breaking bread on the Sabbath Saturday symbolizes that Christians are dead and buried with Christ in the tomb. This is also a testimony but not as good as the resurrection day testimony.
The Jews believed Christ went to the tomb and stayed there, they don't believe in a resurrection.
For this reason we should break bread on resurrection day Sunday to testify that Jesus is risen.

Based upon what Christ did on the cross, the resurrection day Sunday is more important than Sabbath day Saturday.

The belief that Jesus was crucified on a Friday also comes from the same traditions that believe Jesus was resurrected on Sunday and we should break bread on Sunday.

The early church fathers who 'canonized' the scriptures and who gave us the doctrine of the Trinity, all believed in a Friday crucifixion and a Sunday resurrection with Lord's supper on the Sunday.

Interestingly researchers at Oxford University reconstructed the Jewish calendar in the first century AD and arrived at the conclusion that Friday April 3 33AD was the date of the crucifixion.
Interestingly, by studying earthquakes in the dead sea region, researchers have come up with a "most likely" date of crucifixion as Friday 3 April 33 AD.
And they can also show that a partial eclipse of the sun occurred on this day .. , earthquake and solar eclipse events all point towards a Friday crucifixion.
 
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Hello rstrats.

re: "Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread..."

Even if "breaking bread" always meant "the Lord's Supper" (and there is no proof that is does),
Acts 2:46 says that the believers broke bread every day. In this case the need for any specialness being placed on the first day because of breaking bread would be eliminated.

If we follow the logic you have employed rstrats, then it also holds true that the sabbath observance
is likewise eliminated. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.


Many do, but I'm not aware of any scripture that directs that practice.

How can you make this statement rstrats?

If breaking the bread on the first day is the day of observance by the Gentile church.
Then it follows that Sunday is the day specified of course. You cannot then reject
this scripture and state that they were not gathered together, assembled on the
first day to celebrate the breaking of the bread.

Your reply was illogical rstrats.
 
DHC,

re: "If we follow the logic you have employed rstrats, then it also holds true that the sabbath observance is likewise eliminated."


You're going to have to explain that one because I don't see where scripture says that they observed the seventh day Sabbath every day.




re: "How can you make this statement rstrats?"

Because I really am not aware of any scripture that directs a practice of observing the first day of the week as a unique day for the purpose of honoring the resurrection
 
Because I really am not aware of any scripture that directs a practice of observing the first day of the week as a unique day for the purpose of honoring the resurrection

Matt 28:1; Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave.
Mark 16:2; Very early on the first day of the week, they *came to the tomb when the sun had risen.
Mark 16:9; [Now after He had risen early on the first day of the week, He first appeared to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons.
Luke 24:1; But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb bringing the spices which they had prepared.
John 20:1; Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene *came early to the tomb, while it *was still dark, and *saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.

Mark 16:1; When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, so that they might come and anoint Him.
John 19:31; Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath (for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Easter is always on a Sunday because of the 7 verses above.
 
When you look at John 19:31 -the verse shows Jesus was buried on the preparation day before a high day Sabbath, not the weekly Sabbath.
At that time that preparation day was a Wednesday and the Thursday was the High Sabbath, the first day of unleavened bread.
 
When you look at John 19:31 -the verse shows Jesus was buried on the preparation day before a high day Sabbath, not the weekly Sabbath.
At that time that preparation day was a Wednesday and the Thursday was the High Sabbath, the first day of unleavened bread.

Hello judge not.

Which Bible translation are you using judge not?


John 20:1

Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb,
while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb.


The first day is Sunday, judge not, this means that the previous sabbath
was a high day, in other words judge not, the sabbath occurred during
the passover. Passover sabbaths are high days.

The translation you are using, or your reading of the verse is incorrect.

 

DHC
I am using the original King James version.
John 19:31 - " The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day (for that sabbath day was a high day).........."
That preparation day was Wednesday in 31 Ad, the day after the passover supper, the day Jesus was crucified..the next day Thursday in that month and year was the first annual high day or annual sabbath-the 1st day of unleavened bread.
There were 2 preparation days that week-the wednesday and the regular preparation day for the weekly sabbath, Friday.
Wednesday would fit the 3 days and 3 nights that Jesus gave as absolute proof that He was the Son of God, seeing as In the wee dark hours of the first day of the week Jesus was already risen(past tense). In this time frame Jesus would have risen late Saturday evening corresponding with the time of his burial late Wednesday before sunset.
The weekly sabbath during the passover season is not a high sabbath unless the 1st day of unleavened bread falls on a Saturday.

[/QUOTE]
 

DHC
I am using the original King James version.
John 19:31 - " The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day (for that sabbath day was a high day).........."
That preparation day was Wednesday in 31 Ad, the day after the passover supper, the day Jesus was crucified..the next day Thursday in that month and year was the first annual high day or annual sabbath-the 1st day of unleavened bread.
There were 2 preparation days that week-the wednesday and the regular preparation day for the weekly sabbath, Friday.
Wednesday would fit the 3 days and 3 nights that Jesus gave as absolute proof that He was the Son of God, seeing as In the wee dark hours of the first day of the week Jesus was already risen(past tense). In this time frame Jesus would have risen late Saturday evening corresponding with the time of his burial late Wednesday before sunset.
The weekly sabbath during the passover season is not a high sabbath unless the 1st day of unleavened bread falls on a Saturday.


Hello Judge not, there is no such thing as absolute proof in regards to dates concerning this subject.

There appears to be a flaw in the timing utilized in your argument.

Let's assume your hypothesis that 31AD is correct for the sake of your argument, judge not.

Hence, thursday would be a sabbath day, no work is done by the Jews, household confinement.

If Jesus was buried on wednesday preceeding thursday, the sabbath, then Jesus rises on the
third day, Friday. Jesus cannot be laid to rest at any time on Wednesday otherwise Jesus
rises on Friday.

1 Corinthians 15:4
and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Jesus is raised on the third day, not after the third day.

I do require you to furnish the scripture that supports a resurrection on the fourth day.
 
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