meekness and weakness

[mackem lady]

Is submiting to an abusive husband through fear weakness or meakness. What's the diffrence

 

[Kit Carson]

Hey:

Well about that meekness, it would seem the churches would teach us that Jesus is a passive and lay down person. But one has to realize he was in these things speaking to groups of religious leaders of the time.

In the context of Matthew 5:38-39 (as well as Luke 6:29) our Lord is correcting yet another error by these religious leaders. In verse 38 He says: "You have heard that it was said: 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth'." The religious leaders, the scribes and Pharisees, were taking what God had instructed in His law (Ex. 21:24; Deut. 19:21; Lev. 24:20) for the civil government and made it a private and individual matter. The Lord God had instructed the judges and magistrates to punish those who had done injuries by making them suffer the way they made their victims suffer. The scribes and Pharisees taught that this meant private or individual revenge. This was not correct. The individual has not been given the right for revenge. That is in the hands of God (see Deut. 32:35; Romans 12:19) and His "means" of punishment through the civil magistrates (Rom. 13:4). Christ challenges this contrary and his intent it to show that if there for a person, and individual any means possible to avoid conflict or to walk away or to not do harm, to do so. So he says turn the other cheek and says the meek shall inherit the earth. One day we will all be meek and respectful of others, but it is not so in the world of today.



But he does not mean to just let it go, to allow someone to constantly keep coming at you , and does not mean self defense is not justified. He is just saying to us that if there is a way, seek this first. Aggression in the face of aggression is not cool, and to be meek many times will not cause the situation to get out of control and become much worse and maybe cause you to sin in its end result. So he is just saying, be meek first. Try all you can try to defuse the situation.



God did not intend to have a woman be a slave, to be submissive, to be treated as a piece of property and be the subject of abuse and ownership. God created man and woman equally. I do not believe this wording of woman was created as a helper at all. This was man and his way and culture and tradition, and simply not right. One has to sort out the word of God from the words of man and culture. So God never did intend for women to be slaves and property and to be treated as such.



Even Paul was traditional and made some statements that were his opinion and not Gods. We all do this time to time. It is our way, our culture and it just creeps into things.



Some men are just total jerks. I really do not know why, and do not have the answers for much of it.



I guess there is no total answer. Each situation is different, and a woman caught up in this has many problems. She may not have an means to leave and is tied to the situation, so she endures to the point that sometimes the man ends up killing her. Society is not real helpful to those in this situation, where can they go, by what means can they escape. There are concerns on where and how to live, maybe concerns for the children and so on.



So I would advise before offering advice that all things are considered carefully and some prayer would help too. But be very careful with advice as this can make things worse.



I really do not have the answers , some men are just jerks. They will never change and that is a fact. I had an employee once that was one you would never suspect of this but he was very abusive to his wife and one day picked her up and threw her off a deck and broke her leg. He eventually ended up in prison, but not for that sin. I once worked for a man who beat his wife and she would come to the office with visible signs of abuse. He also eventually ended up in prison for other things but it took years. Her family helped this woman to escape and supported her for a time. But what if the woman has no family locally??



But so are some women, they do things they should not. One thing leads to another and all things create the situation sometimes. So this is why I am very reluctant to offer advice as I never do know the entire story. I know only what I am told.



It is a situation where one must be very careful with advice.



Kit

 

[james g]

Is submiting to an abusive husband through fear weakness or meakness. What's the diffrence

"Meekness is not weakness; meekness is strength under control."

Weak (770) (astheneo from asthenes HYPERLINK "http://www.preceptaustin.org/romans_56-11.htm" \l "helpless"[see study]= without strength, powerless from a = without + sthenos = strength, bodily vigor) means to be feeble (in any sense), to be diseased, impotent, sick, to lack strength, to be infirm, to be weak.

Astheneo is used 33 times in the NAS (Mt 10:8; 25:36, 39; Mark 6:56; Lk 4:40; Jn 4:46; 5:3, 7; 6:2; 11:1, 2, 6; Acts 9:37; 19:12; 20:35; Ro 4:19; 8:3; 14:1,2; 1Cor 8:11, 12; 2Co 11:21, 29; 12:10; 13:3, 4, 9; Php 2:26, 27; 2Ti 4:20; James 5:14) and is translated: am weak, 1; becoming weak, 1; fell sick, 1; sick, 18; weak, 12.

Astheneo is used 55 times in the Septuagint (LXX) (Jdg 6:15; 16:7, 11, 17; 19:9; 1 Sam 2:4, 5; 2Sa 3:1; 2Ki 19:26; 2Chr 28:15; Job 4:4; 28:4; Ps 9:3; 18:36; 26:1; 27:2; 31:10; 58:7; 68:9; 88:9; 105:37; 107:12; 109:24; Pr 24:16; Is 7:4; 28:20; 29:4; 32:4; 44:12; Jer 6:21; 18:15; 46:6, 12, 16; 50:32; Lam 1:14; 2:8; 5:13; Ezek 17:6; 21:15; 34:4; Da 8:27; 10:17; 11:14, 19, 33, 34, 35, 41; Ho 4:5; 5:5; 11:6; 14:1, 9; Nah 2:5; 3:3; Zech 12:8; Malachi 2:8; 3:11 )

Figuratively astheneo is incapability of any kind and here in Romans 8:3 astheneo means the Law is impotent, powerless and inefficacious. It could not accomplish the intended objective. Why? Because as discussed above, the sinful corruption of fallen man's flesh (the moral/ethical meaning of "flesh" not the more literal meaning referring to the physical body) made the Law powerless to save men. The law cannot make men righteous but can only expose their unrighteousness and condemn them for it, so that they see their need for a Savior.

"Illustration: Think of a strong anchor. Is the anchor able to hold? Yes! But if you lower the anchor into soft mud it will not hold. "What the anchor could not do in that it was weak through the mud." The problem is not with God’s holy law but with our sinful flesh!" (Romans 8)

The Law itself was unable to produce righteousness because it spoke to men who were sinners and who had no strength to obey. Sure, the Law could produce a legalistic "religious" life but not works of righteousness acceptable to God. Jesus addressed this when He plainly stated
"that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you shall not enter the kingdom of heaven." (see Matthew 5:20)

Paul is saying that the trouble was not with the Law but with our fallen human nature (flesh). The Law could point out, condemn and even stimulate Sin, but it could not remove it. Because of the corruption of unregenerate men, the law was powerless ("weak") to produce a righteousness which God would accept. (Gal 3:21).


Helpless (772) (asthenes from a = without + sthénos = strength, bodily vigor) (See study of related verb astheneo - note the concentration of asthenes/astheneo in the epistles to the Corinthians - almost 50% of NT uses) is literally without strength or bodily vigor.

Asthenes describes one's state of limited capacity to do or be something and is used literally of physical weakness (most of the uses in the Gospels) and figuratively of weakness in the spiritual arena (weak flesh, weak conscience, weak religious system or commandment [Gal 4:9, Heb 7:18], etc) and thus powerlessness to produce results.

Sanday and Headlam write that asthenes in Romans 5:6 means "incapable of working out any righteousness for ourselves (in loc.)."


Weaknesses (769) (astheneiafrom a = without + sthénos = strength, bodily vigor) means literally without strength or bodily vigor = want of strength = lacking strength. Literally astheneia refers to bodily diseases or ailments (Lk 5:15, 13:11, 12, Jn 5:5, 11:4, 28:9). Another meaning of astheneia is incapacity to do or experience something, an inability to produce results, a state of weakness or limitation (1Co 15:43; 2Co 11:30; 12:5, 9, 10, 13:4; Ro 8:27; Heb 4:15; 5:2; 7:28; 11:34) Paul's use in 1Co 2:3 conveys the sense of weakness in terms of courage.

Richards writes...
This group of words expresses powerlessness. The weak are without strength, incapacitated in some serious way. (Expository Dictionary)

 

[james g]

Gentle (4239) (praus)refers to one who is not overly impressed by a sense of one’s self-importance and is gentle, humble, considerate, meek and unassuming.

Praus - 4x in 4v - Matt 5:5; 11:29; 21:5; 1 Pet 3:4

Praus describes the man or woman whose temper is always under complete control. He or she knows when to be angry and when not to be angry. He or she patiently bears wrongs to himself or herself but is ever chivalrously ready to spring to the help of others who are wronged.

Lenski...
This meekness is always quiet; loudness, intemperate, irate speech and action are foreign to it. A steady, balanced strength keeps it on an even keel. Such a Christian wife is a treasure for any husband. When a heathen husband sees that by conversion his wife is changed from vanity, love of display, and other feminine vices to the true beauty of a new spirit, he must surely be drawn to a religion that is able to produce such wonders of grace. Paul notes cases of the opposite kind, where the unbelieving spouse may even depart and thus break up the marriage (1Cor. 7:15); Peter passes these cases by, they are not pertinent to his simple admonitory purpose.

Praus is used 4 times in the NT in the NASB (Mt 3x; 1Pet) (see uses in Matthew below) and is always translated "gentle" but could be translated as "meek" or "tender."

Praus and prautes convey the idea of tenderness and graciousness, and can be accurately translated "meekness" and "meek" respectively. But unlike those English words, the Greek terms do not connote weakness but rather power under control. The adjective praus was often used of a wild horse that was broken and made useful to its owner. For believers, to be gentle is to be willingly under the sovereign control of God. Numbers 12:3 describes Moses as
"very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth."
Yet that same Moses could act decisively, and flared up in anger when provoked.

Praus is often used of a gentle voice, a gentle breeze, or a gentle animal. As noted above the Greeks characterized meekness as power under control and in the case of the Spirit filled believer this means that he or she is under the control of God's Spirit. From a practical standpoint, the individual who is "praus" exhibits a freedom from malice, bitterness, or any desire for revenge. The only way to truly define meekness is in the context of relationships because it refers to how we treat others. A gentle spirit should characterize our relationship with both man and God.

Humble (5011) (tapeinos) means low, not high, not rising far from the ground. It speaks of one's condition as lowly or of low degree. It described what was considered base, common, unfit, and having little value. It pictures one brought low, as for example by grief. Tapeinos is descriptive particularly of attitude and social positions.

Tapeinos is used 8 times in the NAS and KJV (Matt. 11:29; Lk. 1:52; Ro. 12:16; 2Co. 7:6; 10:1; James. 1:9; 4:6; 1 Pet. 5:5) and is translated: depressed, 1; humble, 5; lowly, 1; meek, 1. In the KJV tapeinos is translated: base, 1; cast down, 1; humble, 2; lowly, 1; of low degree, 2; of low estate, 1. There are 44 uses in the Septuagint - Lev. 13:3, 4,, 20, 21, 25, 26; 14:37; 27:8; Jos. 11:16; Jdg. 1:15; 1 Sam. 18:23; Esther 1:1; Job 5:11; 12:21; Ps. 10:18; 18:27; 34:18; 82:3; 102:17; 113:6; 138:6; Prov. 3:34; 11:2; 16:2; 30:14; Eccl. 10:6; Is 2:11; 11:4; 14:32; 25:4; 26:6; 32:7; 49:13; 54:11; 58:4; 66:2; Jer. 22:16; Ezek. 17:24; 21:26; 29:14; Amos 2:7; 8:6; Zeph. 2:3; 3:12

The best "definition" of tapeinos is found in the attitude of our Lord Jesus Christ Who declared...

Take My yoke upon you, and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble (tapeinos) in heart; and YOU SHALL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. (Mt 11:29)
The other NT uses of tapeinos include...
He has brought down rulers from their thrones, and has exalted those who were humble. (Luke 1:52)

Be of the same mind toward one another; do not be haughty in mind, but associate with the lowly. Do not be wise in your own estimation. (Ro 12:16 )
Now I, Paul, myself urge you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ-- I who am meek (tapeinos) when face to face with you, but bold toward you when absent! (2Cor 10:1)

But God, who comforts the depressed, comforted us by the coming of Titus (2Cor 7:6)

But let the brother of humble circumstances glory in his high position (James 1:9)

But He gives a greater grace. Therefore it says, "GOD IS OPPOSED TO THE PROUD, BUT GIVES GRACE TO THE HUMBLE. (Jas 4:6)

Meekness (4240) prautes
mildness of disposition, gentleness of spirit, meekness
KJV (3) - meekness

 

[agua]

Hey:


God did not intend to have a woman be a slave, to be submissive, to be treated as a piece of property and be the subject of abuse and ownership. God created man and woman equally. I do not believe this wording of woman was created as a helper at all. This was man and his way and culture and tradition, and simply not right. One has to sort out the word of God from the words of man and culture. So God never did intend for women to be slaves and property and to be treated as such.

Being submissive does not mean being a slave. God did indeed create woman to be man's helper but this did not imply slavery. Slavery has connotations of ownership where the arrangement between man and woman is one of order and position, in love, which God intended in family. Men and women are differently made and have different roles.
Don't get God's arrangement of headship confused with slavery.


Col 3:18-19 NKJV Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. (19) Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.


1Pe 3:7 NKJV Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.


Many men abuse, and are delinquent in, their role as head but this is because they disregard God's instruction.

Even Paul was traditional and made some statements that were his opinion and not Gods. We all do this time to time. It is our way, our culture and it just creeps into things.

We can't discard parts of scripture simply because they don't placate our sensibilities. Paul was taught by Jesus and his words are inspired as is all scripture. We can have trouble understanding scriptures but it's authority is not in question. Any of it.

Gal 1:9-12 NKJV As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. (10) For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ. (11) But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. (12) For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Some men are just total jerks. I really do not know why, and do not have the answers for much of it.

Indeed.



As far as the OP goes.

Meekness and weakness are totally different concepts. There is no biblical reason for a woman to tolerate abuse. She should get help and report the situation to her family/Church and the police if necessary.

 

[Kit Carson]

Being submissive does not mean being a slave. God did indeed create woman to be man's helper but this did not imply slavery. Slavery has connotations of ownership where the arrangement between man and woman is one of order and position, in love, which God intended in family. Men and women are differently made and have different roles.
Don't get God's arrangement of headship confused with slavery.


Col 3:18-19 NKJV Wives, submit to your own husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. (19) Husbands, love your wives and do not be bitter toward them.


1Pe 3:7 NKJV Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.


Many men abuse, and are delinquent in, their role as head but this is because they disregard God's instruction.

We can't discard parts of scripture simply because they don't placate our sensibilities. Paul was taught by Jesus and his words are inspired as is all scripture. We can have trouble understanding scriptures but it's authority is not in question. Any of it.

Gal 1:9-12 NKJV As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. (10) For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ. (11) But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. (12) For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Indeed.



As far as the OP goes.

Meekness and weakness are totally different concepts. There is no biblical reason for a woman to tolerate abuse. She should get help and report the situation to her family/Church and the police if necessary.

Hi Aqua.

Yes I agree and disagree.

The bible does say God created a helper, or a help meet, in various ways.

But you know, I do just think it is man who decided woman was to blame for all the sin, and so through time and culture and tradition it became so.

Yes we are as men the priest of the family, the head of it and all are subject to us. But we should be respectful, kind, honor all, listen and listen again before yelling. Lol!

I have always wondered about what Paul said about women in the church. That they are to stay silent, to not speak and not be a part of things so to speak. I think tradition and culture does change, as many women today work with the kids in a church or Sunday school and so on, and do a grand job. Much more than I would do as I sometimes have a lack of patience with the rascals.

Did not mean to say something wrong. Was not my intent.

Kit

 

[Nana Ivan]

I always use Moses' example to help me understand meekness.

I believe he could have responded to his siblings when they accused him of 'marrying wrongly' because afterall, he was the leader; but he did not. And that, bible says, was meekness and not weakness. I am sure his response would have led to an intense argument.

I advice we hold our peace if we know our response will lead to unnecessary argument. That is meekness(ability to endure 'nonsense').

blessings

 

[Peace Seeker]

I have always wondered about what Paul said about women in the church. That they are to stay silent, to not speak and not be a part of things so to speak. I think tradition and culture does change, as many women today work with the kids in a church or Sunday school and so on

From what I read somewhere once, the background of what Paul was saying here is, during church services in his day the women and children sat on one side of the room while the men were on the other. Hardly anyone in that society was educated, let alone the women. So when the women didn't understand what was being preached they would ask their husbands by yelling to them across the room.

That's why Paul is asking them to ask their husbands at home, so as to not disrupt the worship service.

In Romans 16 Paul praises several women that taught and did great things in the church. So he clearly was not implying that women were less than men, or any other such notions that some get from reading those passages about women being silent.

 

[gdemoss]

Is submiting to an abusive husband through fear weakness or meakness. What's the diffrence

sub·mis·sion/səbˈmiSHən/
Noun:
The action or fact of accepting or yielding to a superior force or to the will or authority of another person.

From the definition of submission itself:

Yielding to a superior force; Submitting through fear as in terror is weakness.

Yielding to the authority of another person: Submitting to the authority given by God to someone over you even when they are wrong is meekness.

Consider Josephs brothers when they came to him and submitted out of fear for what he may do unto them. Weakness.

Consider Jesus at Gethsemane, They came up and inquired about him. He spoke and they all fell backward. They got up and inquired again and he went peacefully into the hands of those whom God had put over him. Meekness.