Misapplying The Book of Acts

[Enow]

Enow I appreciate ythe time you put into this thread, but I see nothing in the OP other than your interpretation (opinion). I am not anadvocate of the charismatic movement or the pentecostal denominations. I am not an advocate of any religious group or sect but I speak in tongues and I do it often, it builds me up in the Lord Jesus.

Could you please explain how? Even Paul said that when he spoke in tongues, it was unfruitful because he did not understand it. I confess I am at a loss as to how he can still testify it as edifying to himself and yet admits it is not edifying to the hearer. If he understood it not and the tongue was unfruitful without interpreation, how then can he be edified? I do not doubt his word, but that part is baffling to me. I suppose being able to speak in tongues would answer the question as just being able to do it is somehow edifying... but again, unfruitful as per understanding the tongue. How does it build you up?

You are not the first person to challenge "speaking in tongues" or the "baptism into HolySpirit" here at TJ, just read some of the old threads.

They are closed, right?

Your OP is very clear and easily read (great job). So you have done well and made your point. I think you are borderline between making your point and arguing your point. So please be careful.

I know. God must cause the increase. I cannot by arguing the point. It is just that other believers have used the guantlet of blaspheming against the Holy Spirit as if to end all discussion and get out of what I have been asking them to do.. believe not every spirit but test them by the Word of God.

I agree that "not everthing that glitters is gold" but I also agree with "don't throw out the baby with the bath water" too.

It would be agreeable if I had seen that the gift of discerning of spirits was being practised as well, but all I have witnessed is.. just go with the flow with whatever is happening. That is like seeing nothing to prevent this prophesy from occurring now: 1 Timothy 4:1-2

Bottom line is simple, if you have never tasted real butter then you are not qualified to critique fake butter.

I know the real Holy Spirit as being in me as promised by Jesus. By the scriptures, I am qualified to say that what is in the world is not the Holy Spirit for He would not be in the world for us to confuse Him with false spirits to commit the unpardonable sin, therefore the line of discernment is.. greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

 

[Boanerges]

Enow my brother, I forgive you for what I perceived to be an attack on my faith and I ask your forgiveness if I said anything out of line or offensive. It is apparent that discussing this will change nothing so I am withdrawing from this conversation. These subjects have been discussed and dissagreed on for 2000 years now. I pray the blessings of the Lord on you and your family,
your brother Larry.

 

[jiggyfly]

Could you please explain how? Even Paul said that when he spoke in tongues, it was unfruitful because he did not understand it. I confess I am at a loss as to how he can still testify it as edifying to himself and yet admits it is not edifying to the hearer. If he understood it not and the tongue was unfruitful without interpreation, how then can he be edified? I do not doubt his word, but that part is baffling to me. I suppose being able to speak in tongues would answer the question as just being able to do it is somehow edifying... but again, unfruitful as per understanding the tongue. How does it build you up?

1Corinthians 14;1-4
1*Let love be your highest goal, but also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives, especially the gift of prophecy. 2*For if your gift is the ability to speak in tongues,* you will be talking to God but not to people, since they won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. 3*But one who prophesies is helping others grow in the Lord, encouraging and comforting them. 4*A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally in the Lord, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

 

[Enow]

Enow my brother, I forgive you for what I perceived to be an attack on my faith and I ask your forgiveness if I said anything out of line or offensive. It is apparent that discussing this will change nothing so I am withdrawing from this conversation. These subjects have been discussed and dissagreed on for 2000 years now. I pray the blessings of the Lord on you and your family,
your brother Larry.

I am sorry that you did not see me as raising alarms to give you pause as I was by His grace, trying to remind you of the simplicity of the Gospel in defending the faith in Jesus Christ so that you may take the matter to Jesus in prayer.

I cannot change anyone's stance, but I do believe that if a believer turn to the Lord in prayer and ask if what I had shared is of any concern that He wanted you to be aware of by His grace to confirm the alarms, then He will reveal that to you, and help you prune away that which is not of the faith by words and deeds. Only God can cause the increase. I am nothing.

And yes, you are still my brother, but I believe it is not after the tradition taught of us, voiding the faith in Jesus Christ by works that deny Him and the full promises of God to us in Christ Jesus.

I can only ask for forgiveness if I gave the impression that I was saying that you are not my brother, but I cannot apologize for the line of discernment given by the scriptures.

My alarms for you remains. I can only ask you to take it to the Lord in prayer. Amen.

 

[Enow]

1Corinthians 14;1-4
1*Let love be your highest goal, but also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives, especially the gift of prophecy. 2*For if your gift is the ability to speak in tongues,* you will be talking to God but not to people, since they won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. 3*But one who prophesies is helping others grow in the Lord, encouraging and comforting them. 4*A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally in the Lord, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

What version are you using anyway? KJV has it as edifieth.

1 Corinthians 14: 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

By your version then... how can speaking in tongues stengthen you? In what way? Is your version implying that a person must speak in tongues if they expect to be strengthen by the Lord personally? I just wonder why that version says it in that way and why you'd boldened it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And for any babes in Christ out there reading this.... I do not believe you have to be speaking in tongues to be strengthened by the Lord. I cannot see it as one of the ways unless the means takes the glory away from Christ as doing the actual strengthening, so I rely on the King James Bible for the actual meaning of God's words. I am just trying to understand how this other version is being utilized by its saying, but the Truth is below.

Hebrews 2: 18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Jesus does it, not tongues. If anyone is in need of help, go before the throne of grace where Jesus is the Mediator for help.

Hebrews 4: 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

 

[jiggyfly]

What version are you using anyway? KJV has it as edifieth.

1 Corinthians 14: 1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

By your version then... how can speaking in tongues stengthen you? In what way? Is your version implying that a person must speak in tongues if they expect to be strengthen by the Lord personally? I just wonder why that version says it in that way and why you'd boldened it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And for any babes in Christ out there reading this.... I do not believe you have to be speaking in tongues to be strengthened by the Lord. I cannot see it as one of the ways unless the means takes the glory away from Christ as doing the actual strengthening, so I rely on the King James Bible for the actual meaning of God's words. I am just trying to understand how this other version is being utilized by its saying, but the Truth is below.

Hebrews 2: 18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

1 Peter 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

Jesus does it, not tongues. If anyone is in need of help, go before the throne of grace where Jesus is the Mediator for help.

Hebrews 4: 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Same reason your version says;
1*Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2*For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3*But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5*I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Do you know what "edifieth" or "edify" means? You might want to look it up in a dictionary.
The original text uses the greek word "oikodomeo" and means to build up, embolden, or strengthen.

This is used in the same manner that the ekklesia is built up by prophesying.


Jude 20
20*But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

 

[Enow]

Same reason your version says; 1*Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 2*For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. 3*But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church. 5*I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. Do you know what "edifieth" or "edify" means? You might want to look it up in a dictionary. The original text uses the greek word "oikodomeo" and means to build up, embolden, or strengthen. This is used in the same manner that the ekklesia is built up by prophesying. Jude 20 20*But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Hmm.... I do not see the word strengthen used here for 1 Corinthians 14:4. All I see is...from the same as oikodomh - oikodome to be a house-builder, i.e. construct or (figuratively) confirm:--(be in) build(-er, -ing, up), edify, embolden.

I can see how the meaning can be inserted in there, but I think it alters the meaning slightly. What I meant was in building or constructing, if done right, there is no need for strengthening. That would suggest some material used in the building isn't of good quality.

But then those weak in faith need strengthening, but would that imply that those praying in tongues are weak in faith that they need tongues for strengthening? I guess I am having a hard time applying that towards tongues.

Getting back to you though since you profess to have the gift of tongues, can you testify how it strengthens you in your own words? Can you recall the difference before tongues and after having tongues or is there any notable difference?

I thank you for your reference to verse 20 but I do not think building yourselves up on your most holy faith is to be done by praying in the Holy Ghost. Jude was just giving a list of practises for believers to be doing as the next verse goes on...

Jude 1:21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Which I should point out that praying in the Holy Ghost means not praying as if you are out of the Holy Ghost that you need to call for Him to come, right? The practise to uphold that when we are praying, we do so as in the Holy Ghost, not out of Him.