One Flock-two groups

[RJ]

Well, no matter when the rapture happens (pre, mid or post) I think we have to agree there will be some Christians who are already dead

Well, yeah!!! We have had the dead in Christ, for eons, with us now. It is more than likely that we all will be the dead in Christ before he gathers his church and WE will be the "Dead in Christ".
How Christ does this happen, who knows? The gathering of the church is truly a mystery as to exactly how it happens. The truth is, at rapture, Christ is raising the mortal body into a resurrected heavenly body to be just like his. The dead in Christ are with Jesus spiritually now,and then, he is raising the body incorruptible! At that time, the Christians alive will be changed, body and spirit, in a blink of the eye and reformed into their heavenly bodies. Christ is already in his heavenly body, before we can truly be with him, as his church, we must be changed as well! I just don't see why we waffle back and forth and avoid stating this truth!

 

[norapture]

RJ I agree with you about, what kind of body we will have , at the resurrection.
May I ask you how many resurrection's, do you believe there is of the saints ?
Cause even Paul said , we which remain alive , will be caught up together , with the ones that had died in Christ, to meet the Lord in the air.
So what Saints are left to go thru tribulation, if the ones alive are caught up in the air, with the one's who had die?

 

[tulsa 2011]

The Little Flock as the 144,000 also sounds like Seventh Day Adventism and Ellen G. White. In her early writings, (Word to the Little Flock), Ellen G. White said that there will be literally 144,000 Christians who will be alive when Jesus comes. The Seventh Day Adventists tend toward literalism. But Ellen G. White apparently did not believe that the 144,000 were all Jews who never had sex with women and had not told lies. It would be interesting to find out if Ellen G. White ever looked at Romans 9: 6-9, Romans 10: 12, and Galatians 3: 16, 26-29 as proof texts that Revelation 7: 2-8 and Revelation 14: 4-5 cannot be taken to be literal, but are metaphoric. That after, the Cross, in Christ there is no difference between former Jews and Former non-Jews, is absolute and cannot be compromised or changed by a tradition of men. Seventh Day Adventism is also a tradition of men.

 

[RJ]

So what Saints are left to go thru tribulation, if the ones alive are caught up in the air, with the one's who had die?

norapture, why can't you see this? During Rapture, when Christ gathers his church, this is his gathering all believers before tribulation. Now, God sets the time and duration, but it must be pretty quick...."in the blink of an eye". So, instantaneously, there are NO, believers ( or Saints) left behind. For some amount of time there are only non-believers that go through tribulation. But, there will be, who knows when ( probably throughout tribulation), but there will be those who, call upon the name of the Lord and become saved and are Saints. They have missed the rapture but are Saints nonetheless, and they are the Saints that will suffer through tribulation. Saints are allowed during tribulation and Saints will be allowed during the following millennium !

 

[RJ]

The Little Flock as the 144,000 also sounds like Seventh Day Adventism and Ellen G. White.

Yes, ii is good that someone get us back on task, but the originator of this thread appears not to be at TJ any more!

 

[norapture]

RJ I see so much than you think, I've watched the Left Behind movies, that you believe so much in
You fail to answer the first question, in my last post
About how many resurrection's of the saints is there?

 

[norapture]

The Little Flock as the 144,000 also sounds like Seventh Day Adventism and Ellen G. White. In her early writings,
(Word to the Little Flock), Ellen G. White said that there will be literally 144,000 Christians who will be alive when Jesus comes. The Seventh Day Adventists tend toward literalism. But Ellen G. White apparently did not believe that the 144,000 were all Jews who never had sex with women and had not told lies. It would be interesting to find out if Ellen G. White ever looked at Romans 9: 6-9, Romans 10: 12, and Galatians 3: 16, 26-29 as proof texts that Revelation 7: 2-8 and Revelation 14: 4-5 cannot be taken to be literal, but are metaphoric. That after, the Cross, in Christ there is no difference between former Jews and Former non-Jews, is absolute and cannot be compromised or changed by a tradition of men. Seventh Day Adventism is also a tradition of men.

In Revelation 7 John seen more than 144,000 sealed.
John seen 12,000 of each tribe, then a number no man could number, of all nation
John number the Jews first, then people from all nation, that no man could number
But most people can't see that, he didn't stop seeing those sealed, with just the 144,00

 

[RJ]

About how many resurrection's of the saints is there?

I have been talking about the Pre-rapture resurrection of the church and how Christ does this by coming back from heaven to the air above earth. This point has been much contention between us. I didn't know that additional resurrections had anything to do with this ongoing discussion?

 

[RJ]

I have been talking about the Pre-rapture resurrection of the church and how Christ does this by coming back from heaven to the air above earth. This point has been much contention between us. I didn't know that additional resurrections had anything to do with this ongoing discussion?

• So here was your previous statement: So what Saints are left to go thru tribulation, if the ones alive are caught up in the air, with the one's who had die? This is what I answered and you have no adequate reply to so you attempt to change the subject to avoid your lack of explanation to support your agenda.
• If you wish to talk about how many resurrections are there in scripture, why don't start a new Thread, in the mean time, stay on task, and answer my appropriate post:

norapture, why can't you see this? During Rapture, when Christ gathers his church, this is his gathering all believers before tribulation. Now, God sets the time and duration, but it must be pretty quick...."in the blink of an eye". So, instantaneously, there are NO, believers ( or Saints) left behind. For some amount of time there are only non-believers that go through tribulation. But, there will be, who knows when ( probably throughout tribulation), but there will be those who, call upon the name of the Lord and become saved and are Saints. They have missed the rapture but are Saints nonetheless, and they are the Saints that will suffer through tribulation. Saints are allowed during tribulation and Saints will be allowed during the following millennium !

 

[norapture]

RJ I didn't change the subject, I had two question, in the post you answer one not the other.
But that's OK I can see it brothers you to talk about the rapture ( his coming)
And I see your point of view , but I also can see why it's not right.
But like I said we , need not talk about it since it bothers you.
Bless you and may God lead you to the truth.

 

[tulsa 2011]

"In Revelation 7 John seen more than 144,000 sealed.
John seen 12,000 of each tribe, then a number no man could number, of all nation
John number the Jews first, then people from all nation, that no man could number
But most people can't see that, he didn't stop seeing those sealed, with just the 144,000."

Yes, in Chapter seven verses 1-8 are about those sealed, and verses 9-17 are about a different group of people,
called the multitude in verse 9. Verse 9 opens by saying, "After this I beheld, and lo, a great multitude...." The 144,000, whether
that number is to be literal or not, is a remnant. The remnant is not the multitude. Revelation 14: 1- 5 returns to the 144,000 - the remnant - and again uses metaphoric language, saying the 144,000 are seen standing on Mount Sion. This is not literal, that they are, in the flesh still, standing on what was called Mount Sion in Palestine with Christ. It means they are raised up to a higher level in the Spirit, and are with Christ and he in them. They follow Christ wherever he leads them (14: 4). They are not defiled with women, a metaphor used in Revelation 17: 1-7, which is the women representing false religion, or false doctrines. It does not mean literally that they never had sex with women but that now, when they stand on Mount Zion with Christ and have his testimony as is said of the remnant in Revelation 12: 17, they have come out of false doctrines and are not in bondage to the false doctrines. Verse 5 says in their mouth was found no guile, an old English word meaning deception. The remnant, the 144,00, are not deceptive, though sometime in the past many or most of them might have been deceptive, but have been born again in Christ out of deception.

The remnant in Revelation 12: 17 exists at a time when the dragon in verses 15 to 16 casts a flood out of his mouth. The flood out of the mouth of the Dragon, of course, is not literal, but is metaphoric. Whether this remnant is the exact same remnant called the 144,000 depends upon the time when each exist, and we are not given that exact knowledge of timing in the end times at this point. But that remnant of Revelation 12: 17 exists in 2015. And again, whether the sealing of the 144,000 has begun or is still future depends on the Lord's schedule, which we do not know now. There is nothing in Revelation 7 or 14 which says the sealing of the 144,000 could not go on for years, until a time when the group is complete.

 

[RJ]

RJ I see so much than you think, I've watched the Left Behind movies, that you believe so much in

That is odd and false. How ,in the world do you know what I do? I have never seen a movie or read a book on what you call "left behind"!

 

[RJ]

But like I said we , need not talk about it since it bothers you

None of this bothers me, so you just continue to go down "empty rabbit holes". I am too at peace with my own salvation and eternal hope. Other than that I have no concerns, and I will either be raised incorruptible from the dead in Christ or change "in the blink of an eye" at the rapture before tribulation. But to satisfy your ego and to give you more opportunity to give your disagreement and your vast knowledge, I will answer your question to the best of my knowledge of how many resurrections"

1. The resurrection of Jesus Christ.
2. I have already talked about the pre-rapture of the Saints before tribulation. The New Testament dead in Christ and those live Saints change instantaneously.
3. The Tribulation saints will be raised at the Second Coming of Christ.
4. The Old Testament Saints, the believers, who lived before the time of Christ, will be raised when Christ returns. The Book of Daniel.
5. Great White Throne. At the end of the thousand (millennium) years, there will be a final resurrection. This will come at the Great White Throne judgment. The resurrection of unbelievers will take place after the thousand year reign of Christ upon the earth. All the unbelieving dead who have ever lived will be resurrected and judged at this time.
6. Righteous Judged .There will also be some righteous people who will be judged at the Great White Throne. They will consist of children who were born during the Millennium and became believers in Jesus. They will have been born to people who entered the Millennium with mortal, not resurrected bodies.

For me, # 2 above happens next, after which some of the rest are subject to interpretation, I am sure you have your own!

 

[norapture]

[QURJ, post: 251983, member: 18160"]That is odd and false. How ,in the world do you know what I do? I have never seen a movie or read a book on what you call "left behind"![/QUOTE]

I didnt say you watched them, or seen them.
I said that you believed in.
You can believe in something, without seeing it
For instance you believe in Jesus, but have you seen him

 

[RJ]

I didnt say you watched them, or seen them.
I said that you believed in.
You can believe in something, without seeing it
For instance you believe in Jesus, but have you seen him

I've watched the Left Behind movies, that you believe so much in

You're amazing and will go to no ends to discredit another Brother who apposes your theology. Your comparison between me believing in a movie and Jesus without "seeing" either one is absurd and insulting to the Lord and makes me doubt your faith in the first place. A believing in a movie, which I haven't seen, is secular and physical. Believing if Jesus is spiritual and a act of my faith, which you understand neither!!!!

 

[norapture]

[OTE="RJ, post: 251995, member: 18160"]You're amazing and will go to no ends to discredit another Brother who apposes your theology. Your comparison between me believing in a movie and Jesus without "seeing" either one is absurd and insulting to the Lord and makes me doubt your faith in the first place. A believing in a movie, which I haven't seen, is secular and physical. Believing if Jesus is spiritual and a act of my faith, which you understand neither!!!![/QUOTE]

RJ I've read many post between
you , and others on TJ , and have
to say you always try to say their
false when they disagree with you.
And say they do not understand
That is so sad , you always try to
put people down
And you have a attitude that is not Christ like,

 

[RJ]

RJ I've read many post between
you , and others on TJ , and have
to say you always try to say their
false when they disagree with you.
And say they do not understand
That is so sad , you always try to
put people down
And you have a attitude that is not Christ like,

You said:" I said that you believed in.You can believe in something, without seeing it For instance you believe in Jesus, but have you seen him."

• You ought to take head of your own criticism. You said the above, I didn't. Belief in Jesus is a personal feeling, a spiritual feeling based on faith from God. Your comparison of that to the belief in a movie (your words not mine) is uncalled for and an affront to Jesus and the belief of a fellow Christian. That is why I chastised you about it!
• With no disrespect, one of us is teaching false theology. I tell you what if you wish, why don't we just stop replying to each other on any future threads or posts; that way we can abstain from any future of dealing with whom ever is untruthful.
• Peace be with you and your spiritual growth!