Original sin - Undermines God's nature

[KingJ]

What "world" are you talking about? Mother nature does not sin, mountains and seas do not sin, animals do not sin, they all function exactly as God designed. Only mankind sin, which is conceived in desire, and when it's fully grown, mortal life is over, according to James 1:15. That desire originated from nowhere else but Gen. 3:6 -

"So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate."

And that sin did NOT disappear with Adam and Eve, because Romans 5:12 plainly states that sin spread to all mankind. That's not "a clean baby in a muddy pool", that's a seed planted in mud, you don't see it for a while until it sprouts, but it's there and growing.

I was not specifically referring to mother nature. The world in which we live is all around us. Hunting dogs eating prey would count as that for sure.

Adam and Eve became sinners when they sinned. They were not sinners before they sinned. Their sin is on them. I will not pay for Adam's sin when I stand before God. I will not pay for Eve's sin when I stand before God. If I was a third person in Eden and I did not eat the forbidden fruit, I would still be in Eden.

We are children of Adam and Eve and as such grow up with their guidance and leadership. This is the plan of God for all mankind. Their knowledge of sin affects me. I must grow up watching my mother listen to a snake. My father listen to my mother listening to a snake. I grow up in an environment of sin. A world of sin. It is not my sin. A child sins when they grow up and make a conscience decision to sin. Which all will do as merely an immoral thought is a sin Matt 5:28. Most scholars debate the age of accountability. I firmly stand by it being twenty. As God spared all Hebrews under twenty in the wilderness before they entered the promised land Num 32:11.

Adam, Eve and Satan introduced sin to the world in which we live. Media today is corrupt. Every adult has fallen into sin. Rom 5:12 states that. Read it properly Rom 5:12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Note how it says ''sin entered the world'' ''for everyone sinned''. A baby, most children and mentally handicapped are incapable of sin. If you disagree with that statement we need to have another thread opened discussing what exactly sin is.

The 'everyone' mentioned in many scriptures warrants a bible study on the word. When the world was destroyed at the time of Noah, 'everyone sinning' excluded babies and children. When Sodom was destroyed the less then ten righteous God advised Abraham of in Gen 18:20 excluded babies and children. Babies and children are never part of the 'everyone'. They are innocent bystanders like animals. We both agree on animals at least.

Sin has spread to all mankind, correct. I can watch an immoral video without having to produce it myself. Someone else made it. The rabbit trail of such leads all the way to Adam, Eve and the snake.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

I was not specifically referring to mother nature. The world in which we live is all around us. Hunting dogs eating prey would count as that for sure.

Adam and Eve became sinners when they sinned. They were not sinners before they sinned. Their sin is on them. I will not pay for Adam's sin when I stand before God. I will not pay for Eve's sin when I stand before God. If I was a third person in Eden and I did not eat the forbidden fruit, I would still be in Eden.

We are children of Adam and Eve and as such grow up with their guidance and leadership. This is the plan of God for all mankind. Their knowledge of sin affects me. I must grow up watching my mother listen to a snake. My father listen to my mother listening to a snake. I grow up in an environment of sin. A world of sin. It is not my sin. A child sins when they grow up and make a conscience decision to sin. Which all will do as merely an immoral thought is a sin Matt 5:28. Most scholars debate the age of accountability. I firmly stand by it being twenty. As God spared all Hebrews under twenty in the wilderness before they entered the promised land Num 32:11.

Adam, Eve and Satan introduced sin to the world in which we live. Media today is corrupt. Every adult has fallen into sin. Rom 5:12 states that. Read it properly Rom 5:12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam's sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. Note how it says ''sin entered the world'' ''for everyone sinned''. A baby, most children and mentally handicapped are incapable of sin. If you disagree with that statement we need to have another thread opened discussing what exactly sin is.

The 'everyone' mentioned in many scriptures warrants a bible study on the word. When the world was destroyed at the time of Noah, 'everyone sinning' excluded babies and children. When Sodom was destroyed the less then ten righteous God advised Abraham of in Gen 18:20 excluded babies and children. Babies and children are never part of the 'everyone'. They are innocent bystanders like animals. We both agree on animals at least.

Sin has spread to all mankind, correct. I can watch an immoral video without having to produce it myself. Someone else made it. The rabbit trail of such leads all the way to Adam, Eve and the snake.

Yeah, the devil made me do it, same excuse Eve gave to God, which is utterly refuted in James 1:12-18:

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Yes, you weren't in the garden with Adam and Eve, but this same process of temptation is repeated in your life and my life. There's nothing new under the sun. You and I don't pay for Adam's sin not because we're innocent of that sin, but because Yeshua has paid it for us. He took OUR sin on the cross. His death atoned for OUR sins.

 

[PloughBoy]

Hi all, this thread is an offshoot of this one False teaching to discuss the matter of original sin.

Original Sin - undermines God's nature

Many teach that we are born sinners. Babies can go to hell.

This is one of the most heretical teachings from the pits of hell that exists. God is not a fool that would send children to hell.

There is no scripture that says we are born sinners destined for hell. The correct context of the few that many miss-quote, speaks to us being born in an environment of sin with the ability to sin. God put the devil in the garden. God did not force Adam to sin. God did not make Adam with sin. Fine line for Christians here. Very important for us to get it right and not misrepresent God.

When Jesus spoke on children, He said heaven belongs to them. We also know God spared all Hebrews under twenty in the wilderness. God is not a wicked fool that would send any children to hell. I feel God has chosen the millennium period as the time that children and mentally handicapped will be tested as scripture says the devil is released from the bottomless pit to tempt mankind for the last time Rev 20:3.

God is just and righteous. No just and righteous judge on this earth would send a baby to prison, yet some Christians teach this. We need to grasp the rebuke Paul gives Christians who judge matters worse then the unsaved in 1 Cor 6:1-7 and the following scriptures about God.

Isa 61:8 For I, the Lord, love justice.
Job 34:12 Surely, God will not act wickedly, And the Almighty will not pervert justice.
Deut 32:4 The Rock! His work is perfect, For all His ways are just; A God of faithfulness and without injustice, Righteous and upright is He.

May i ask you , are you only familiar with various "translations' of a Bible and not Familar with "The Holy Scriptures" better known as "The ORIGINAL COPIED MANSCRIPTS" which is THE WORD OF GOD" I am asking this question before i engage with you and Know the limit of your knowledge of "The Very WORDS of GOD" as He spoke it To The Original Hearer and to those who Copied it as The Prophets and The Apostles actual Heard Him speak.

Since you are a Profession "Bible Critic" and a expert in The Fields of "BIBLICAL Apologetics" because i know, good and well, you would not dare step out there and do not have THE Authorihetic Credentials to do so as Be An "Authoritian" on The subjects at hand. And Hours of Studying pertaining this subject and The Doctrine also on "Orginal Sin" as well.

Because I know just becasue this is "TALKJESUS. COM" you feel you can come on here and drop your "Dissertation" as if we were Backwood Farmers and Planters of "BuckWheat and COTTON" you got another thing coming, you most likely have never read, The Documents or The doctrine of "Original Sin" and how The Doctrine came to be and even know the year nor The County and who was there and why.

Now i might be wrong but i know i am not, For I have spent 100's of hour in each fields on particular items of Biblical Studies that is common and uncommon pertaining to the average "layman".

Now Tell me your field of Study and the art of your "Bibical Hermeneutics" if you do not mind, now if you cannot answer those simple questions of ease. Then this quote is a address to you sir, in Biblical kindness. { Because i know a couple and and of those few your form of "hermeneutics" you are using must be a "HomeStyle or "Home brewed" you made up.


New American Standard Bible
“If you have run with infantrymen and they have tired you out, How can you compete with horses? If you fall down in a land of peace, How will you do in the thicket by the Jordan?

But in all of this, be told , I am willing to be corrected. but not by A "HOMEBREWED" Kettle.

Since you are a "Contender of The Faith." that once was given to The saints. And well Schooled in the "Old and the New Covenants"

If you kick the Ball in the field you must be wanting or willing wanting To play "American FootBall". and you must not be afraid of contact. and do not mind getting your bell rang. even with all Your Armor on.

It a reason The Bible says: Put on The Whole ARMOR of GOD! "GOD did not put you in a Playground but He palace you on A BATTLEGROUND"

And Garanteed you will get knock down an walk on and your helmet of SALVATION will Get knock off, and you will walk around on the field in a Daze! and they will say" How many fingers do you see! and they will have to turn you around for you are going the wrong way!

PloughBoy, A Football Field is nothing compared to be Blindsided by a "STRONG SPIRITUAL Force" even if it is "FRIENDLY FIRE".

LORD i Have never Felt nothing like it. Show Me One of The LORDS Warrior who Have Not been prepared for Contact, I will show you one , who will run if there any sign of a "SPIRITUAL FIGHT" and they are scared of getting Wounded. Scared of Weak demons let along a "DEVIL" you cannot Rebuke!


PloughBoy

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

If you disagree with that statement we need to have another thread opened discussing what exactly sin is.

No need to complicate a simple issue. Sin is not the Tree of Knowledge itself, nor is it the act of eating it, as most people believe; Sin is DISOBEDIENCE to God, going against God's instruction, period.

And tell you what, in Gen. 3:3, when Eve told to the Serpent, "God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die;" she had already sinned BEFORE she actually ate it. You see where the problem is? God never said "nor shall you touch it" in Gen. 2:17, it was either made up by Adam and relayed to Eve or made up by Eve herself, meanwhile "the day you eat of it" was omitted. That's the first false teaching in history, they did not have the spirit of truth in them, God's word was twisted BEFORE Satan appeared into the scene, Satan just exploited to deceive Eve by tempting her to act on what was ALREADY in her mind.

 

[KingJ]

No need to complicate a simple issue. Sin is not the Tree of Knowledge itself, nor is it the act of eating it, as most people believe; Sin is DISOBEDIENCE to God, going against God's instruction, period.

And tell you what, in Gen. 3:3, when Eve told to the Serpent, "God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die;" she had already sinned BEFORE she actually ate it. You see where the problem is? God never said "nor shall you touch it" in Gen. 2:17, it was either made up by Adam and relayed to Eve or made up by Eve herself, meanwhile "the day you eat of it" was omitted. That's the first false teaching in history, they did not have the spirit of truth in them, God's word was twisted BEFORE Satan appeared into the scene, Satan just exploited to deceive Eve by tempting her to act on what was ALREADY in her mind.

It is a breath of fresh air to hear you correctly state 'sin is any disobedience to God'. Now you just need to grasp that a baby cannot do anything that would warrant God to punish it for sin.

 

[KingJ]

May i ask you , are you only familiar with various "translations' of a Bible and not Familar with "The Holy Scriptures" better known as "The ORIGINAL COPIED MANSCRIPTS" which is THE WORD OF GOD" I am asking this question before i engage with you and Know the limit of your knowledge of "The Very WORDS of GOD" as He spoke it To The Original Hearer and to those who Copied it as The Prophets and The Apostles actual Heard Him speak.

Since you are a Profession "Bible Critic" and a expert in The Fields of "BIBLICAL Apologetics" because i know, good and well, you would not dare step out there and do not have THE Authorihetic Credentials to do so as Be An "Authoritian" on The subjects at hand. And Hours of Studying pertaining this subject and The Doctrine also on "Orginal Sin" as well.

Because I know just becasue this is "TALKJESUS. COM" you feel you can come on here and drop your "Dissertation" as if we were Backwood Farmers and Planters of "BuckWheat and COTTON" you got another thing coming, you most likely have never read, The Documents or The doctrine of "Original Sin" and how The Doctrine came to be and even know the year nor The County and who was there and why.

Now i might be wrong but i know i am not, For I have spent 100's of hour in each fields on particular items of Biblical Studies that is common and uncommon pertaining to the average "layman".

Now Tell me your field of Study and the art of your "Bibical Hermeneutics" if you do not mind, now if you cannot answer those simple questions of ease. Then this quote is a address to you sir, in Biblical kindness. { Because i know a couple and and of those few your form of "hermeneutics" you are using must be a "HomeStyle or "Home brewed" you made up.


New American Standard Bible
“If you have run with infantrymen and they have tired you out, How can you compete with horses? If you fall down in a land of peace, How will you do in the thicket by the Jordan?

But in all of this, be told , I am willing to be corrected. but not by A "HOMEBREWED" Kettle.

Since you are a "Contender of The Faith." that once was given to The saints. And well Schooled in the "Old and the New Covenants"

If you kick the Ball in the field you must be wanting or willing wanting To play "American FootBall". and you must not be afraid of contact. and do not mind getting your bell rang. even with all Your Armor on.

It a reason The Bible says: Put on The Whole ARMOR of GOD! "GOD did not put you in a Playground but He palace you on A BATTLEGROUND"

And Garanteed you will get knock down an walk on and your helmet of SALVATION will Get knock off, and you will walk around on the field in a Daze! and they will say" How many fingers do you see! and they will have to turn you around for you are going the wrong way!

PloughBoy, A Football Field is nothing compared to be Blindsided by a "STRONG SPIRITUAL Force" even if it is "FRIENDLY FIRE".

LORD i Have never Felt nothing like it. Show Me One of The LORDS Warrior who Have Not been prepared for Contact, I will show you one , who will run if there any sign of a "SPIRITUAL FIGHT" and they are scared of getting Wounded. Scared of Weak demons let along a "DEVIL" you cannot Rebuke!


PloughBoy

I want to take your post and disagreement seriously, but you are all over the show. I feel like you are trolling me? Or really needed to get something off your chest and chose my post as the one to use.

I honestly have no clue what you are trying to say. Perhaps type one line at a time and quote a line from me you disagree with?

 

[KingJ]

Yeah, the devil made me do it, same excuse Eve gave to God, which is utterly refuted in James 1:12-18:

Not sure why you are saying this. I agree with this. What line from me prompted this?

Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Not sure what you are trying to convey here.

Yes, you weren't in the garden with Adam and Eve, but this same process of temptation is repeated in your life and my life. There's nothing new under the sun. You and I don't pay for Adam's sin not because we're innocent of that sin, but because Yeshua has paid it for us. He took OUR sin on the cross. His death atoned for OUR sins.

Agreed, Jesus paid fro my sins. It sounds like you may be insinuating that Adams sin is on me and He paid that sin for me? That would be a contradiction of your underlined statement.

 

[KingJ]

So the question is this "is man first born with a "sin nature" or not? As I would like to take the time to comment on this issue according to scripture.
I absolutely believe man is born with a nature to sin. This sin nature was introduced into the world through Adams' sin; and by the "spirit" of he who is "in" the world also dwells in the "firstborn nature" of man, which is "flesh". Jesus said that which born of fleshis flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

The word "flesh" in that verse denotes a beast like, earthly sin nature, that is separated from divine influence, and is therefore prone to sin and opposed to God.

That is the "enmity" God spoke of in the beginning between the serpents seedand the woman's seed. God also said in Genesis 6:3 that His Spirit shall not always "strive" with man, for that he also is "flesh".

Again, this shows the "enmity" between man's "first nature" which is "flesh" and God's Holy Spirit.

We are told in Romans 5:12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:”

This is what I believe Paul was also showing here in the "law of sin and death" in Romans 8:2 “For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from "the law of sin and death".
Paul is not talking about God's holy law here, but a "natural law" that we are all firstborn "under." Like the law of gravity, we are all first born under "this law of sin".

Paul also said in Romans 5:19 “For as by one man's disobedience many were "made sinners", so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”

And we are not made righteous until we are "born again" from above by God's Holy Spirit of promise, and are then "made free" from this first "sin nature".

There are 2 seeds, one corruptible the other incorruptible (1 Peter 1:23) just as there are "2 natures". The first is "earthy"and of the "flesh" and is also "carnally minded" which is "of" the "spirit" of this world, and is found "in" the first Adam after iniquity was found "in" man (Adam).

The second seed is of the "Holy Spirit", and is of God, sent forth in "the seed" of Promise; even in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ from heaven. We are told in 1 Corinthians 15:46 that which is "first is natural", and afterward (after being born again of the Spirit) that which is "spiritual." So we are not first born "holy", we are firstborn "sinners".

Here is an example of the first "nature" in Ephesians 2:3 “Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the "lusts of our flesh", fulfilling the "desires of the flesh" and of "the mind"; and were "by nature" the children of wrath, even as others.”

So we are first "natural born sinners".

Now some believe there is an age of accountability for children, but I believe the scriptures also prove this idea false. In Psalm 51:5 “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”

And also here in Psalm 58:3 “The wicked are "estranged from the womb": they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.”

Also the Lord said in Genesis 8:21… for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; ….”

So that is some sound scriptural proof to confirm this point. But think about this; if man did not first have a "sin nature" from first being born of the "flesh" and also "carnally minded"; then why would man have to be “born again” and made a “new man” in Christ by way of the Holy Spirit?

The old man of sin must die, we must put to death the deeds of the flesh, and the body of sin must also be destroyed in us. And when this happens by the power of God in Jesus Christ, we then are also raised up a "new man" in Him and given a "new nature" and "new mind" by the Spirit of the Living God.

We are then made new creatures in Christ, the old things pass away, and behold, all things become new.

Our hearts must be changed, the spirit of our minds must be renewed in Jesus Christ Ephesians 4:23 “And be renewed in "the spirit of your mind;"

You must be born again! Peace and God bless

A sin nature is a separate topic to original sin. I agree that the flesh is weak.

Please tell me what you believe happens to babies when they die?

 

[PloughBoy]

I want to take your post and disagreement seriously, but you are all over the show. I feel like you are trolling me? Or really needed to get something off your chest and chose my post as the one to use.

I honestly have no clue what you are trying to say. Perhaps type one line at a time and quote a line from me you disagree with?

You answered all of my questions, Thank you.

I am PloughBoy, always Plowing the field and sometimes i strike Gold, then again, sometimes I Hit a patch of "Wheat".

Thank you sir, for your respond. No need to reply. just act like I never appeared forgotten and gone, liken a Brisk, in a gentle wind.

I am PloughBoy, and I am Plowing the field.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

A sin nature is a separate topic to original sin. I agree that the flesh is weak.

Please tell me what you believe happens to babies when they die?

No, it’s not a seperate topic because by Adams sin there came a sin nature into the world, and death by sin.

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Let me ask you, if death comes by way of sin, then why do babies die?

 

[KingJ]

No, it’s not a seperate topic because by Adams sin there came a sin nature into the world, and death by sin.

Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Let me ask you, if death comes by way of sin, then why do babies die?

What do you believe happens to babies when they die? Stop being elusive.

I will respond to your question and scripture once you answer that simple question.

 

[MedicBravo]

There is no evidence, scriptural or otherwise to suggest babies go to hell.
Even toddlers and pre-teens to a degree have not learned Right from Wrong well enough and even about God at such young ages.
It makes no sense for them to be sent there when there is:
Inability to understand
No opportunity to learn and understand (Stillborn, aborted, died young, mentally delayed, etc.)

In fact, before Jesus where did people go? Not hell. Though God and the Bible doesn't come right out and say, inference says these young ones are treated differently.
They are also NOT eternally baby/child souls after death. Inference again says that those that die before puberty is done are "aged up" to an appropriate age and their knowledge and mindset are as well.
No? Would God force a person to be an eternal baby, toddler, or pre-teen? No.

There are so many things about Catholics and that group that set off my instincts. They claim the "information" to support this in books they have but are not "inspired by God" and are part of "tradition".

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

What do you believe happens to babies when they die? Stop being elusive.

I will respond to your question and scripture once you answer that simple question.

I’m not God, so I don’t pretend to know whom the Lord will have mercy on and whom He will be gracious to; and neither do you.

And I’m not being elusive I’m just exposing how your views are not based on the words of God, but rather on emotion and by judging by outward appearances.

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Most scholars debate the age of accountability. I firmly stand by it being twenty.

This exposes the error in your thinking, which is based on outward appearances and on human emotion, and is not based on the words of God.

Jesus said you must be born again of the Holy Spirit. But you are claiming there is an exemption for those who are under 20.

Talk about heretical doctrine?

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

1 John 5:19
And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.

Psalm 58:3
The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

It is a breath of fresh air to hear you correctly state 'sin is any disobedience to God'. Now you just need to grasp that a baby cannot do anything that would warrant God to punish it for sin.

No, I don't. You need to read John 9. Your strategy of diversion is not new, the exact same question was raised when the disciples saw the blind man: "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents?" You obviously think it was his parents, since "baby cannot do anything", right? Wrong! A verdict was declared in John 9:34 - not only he sinned as a baby, he COMPLETELY sinned as a baby!

Then they answered him, "You were completely born in sins, and are you teaching us?" And they cast him out.

What you are too blind to see is this false dichotomy, arguing whether a baby sins or not is a BLAME GAME, it changes nobody's mind, and it causes divide. Yeshua didn't fall into that dichotomy, he didn't waste any time on playing this blame game, how did he answer? "NEITHER this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him." He went forth and openned the man's eyes! That's why I called this issue a distraction, I just followed Yeshua's example.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Not sure why you are saying this. I agree with this. What line from me prompted this?

Not sure what you are trying to convey here.

Agreed, Jesus paid fro my sins. It sounds like you may be insinuating that Adams sin is on me and He paid that sin for me? That would be a contradiction of your underlined statement.

If you have fallen into any temptation, you're guilty of Adam's sin as you're committing the same sin he committed, that's what James 1:12-18 is talking about. Right now you're obsessed with a doctrine you made up, that's as guilty as Adam made up his rule, "nor shall you touch it."

What do you believe happens to babies when they die? Stop being elusive.

I will respond to your question and scripture once you answer that simple question.

Didn't I already tell you that when they die they go to the GRAVE per Gen. 3:19? What's the point of this conversation if you just keep repeating the same talking point?

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

It is a breath of fresh air to hear you correctly state 'sin is any disobedience to God'. Now you just need to grasp that a baby cannot do anything that would warrant God to punish it for sin.

And by the way, God does NOT punish anyone for their sins, including babies, He just gives them up to the "lusts of their hearts", Rom. 1:24. Whatever happens next is the CONSEQUENCE of their own lusts of hearts, including any tragic death of babies, like more than a million being aborted in America. God is not wicked, YOU are wicked for blaming God for that.

 

[KingJ]

This exposes the error in your thinking, which is based on outward appearances and on human emotion, and is not based on the words of God.

Jesus said you must be born again of the Holy Spirit. But you are claiming there is an exemption for those who are under 20.

Talk about heretical doctrine?

I like what you are doing here, you need to do this with your own belief. Your brain correctly grasped that sending all under 20 to heaven would be partiality and contradict John 3:3.

Well done. Now I accept I need to better explain my belief so as not to paint God as a wicked fool.

I believe all children and mentally handicapped will come back in the millennium. As Rev 20:3 says the devil is released to tempt mankind for the last time.

God is impartial Acts 10:34. If He placed the devil with Adam and Eve, He will do so with all.

__________________________

I’m not God, so I don’t pretend to know whom the Lord will have mercy on and whom He will be gracious to; and neither do you.

And I’m not being elusive I’m just exposing how your views are not based on the words of God, but rather on emotion and by judging by outward appearances.

John 7:24
Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Cop out. Once more elusive.

I am telling you, that every person on the planet with more then a peanut between their ears grasps that God hates sin and if babies are born with sin, they will not be in heaven if they die. IE Your belief implies to all that God will send them to Hades. A sick belief which you are not even taking a stab at trying to defend.

A Christian has one job. Be an ambassador of God 2 Cor 5:20. You fail terribly if you teach God is a wicked fool to the lost He loved and died for. See where I am coming from?

If you don't know or have a good theory, then please for the love of scripture, don't teach anyone of your cherry picked scripture that implies to all with more then half a working brain that God is a wicked fool that would send babies to hell. Unless it is that you want to be a false teacher and fail at your 'one' Christian duty.

 

[KingJ]

I’m not God, so I don’t pretend to know whom the Lord will have mercy on and whom He will be gracious to; and neither do you.

Are you a Calvinist. This is a line from Calvinism.

No, you are absolutely incorrect. We do know exactly who God has mercy on. Every scripture outside of Rom 9 explains that it is those who repent of their sins. It is ''the'' message Jesus taught Luke 5:32.

Now, it is really not hard to grasp a baby, child or mentally handicapped person cannot do this.