Paul contridicts alot of what christ said

[wizanda]

For many this may sound impossible to say that the bible may not be a 100% correct yet let me explain if I can

To start with many feel that Paul was just continuing the gospel of Christ, he did and I doubt the religion would have spread as it did if it were not for Paul

Yet before I start let me point out that it is a proverb in Samuel is Saul among the prophets, this is Paul’s true name.



So why do I say there are contradictions:



Well Christ said that we should not judge, Paul said that the spiritual may judge and should not be judged.

Christ said that his disciples should only drink water; Paul made communion a religious Ritual.

Christ said that god is the lord of the living; Paul said that we should remain with Christ in death.

Christ said that we should want of nothing and trust in god, Paul said if we don’t work we don’t eat and even went back to work while preaching him self.

Christ said he came to fulfill the law, Paul said he came to end it.

Christ said we have forgiveness for forgiving others; Paul said we have forgiveness in Christ.

Christ said we are justified by our words, Paul said we are justified by Christ.

Christ said to be like children; Paul said not to be like children.

Christ said to be the light of the world and to show the bad through love how to be good, Paul said to have nothing to do with bad people and push them out.

Christ said that God is the judge, Paul said Christ is.

Christ said that faith is powerful; Paul said that faith is ‘the faith’ and so turning its meaning in to church attendance.

Christ said about not making the sacrifice, Paul praised the fact that Christ died for us.

Christ said wisdom will make you shine in heaven, Paul said to be simple.

Christ said if you help collect in the harvest you will receive your reward, Paul said there is nothing we can do other then faith in Christ.

Christ said don’t make vain repetition in prayers; Paul established it as a way to pray.

Christ said have one father, Paul said he had begotten people in Christ so making him a father to them.

Christ said it will be hard for a rich man to enter heaven; Paul praised wealth and aspired to have it.



There are loads more, so if anyone else had noticed please help spread the truth of whom Christ really was. And what Christianity should really be.

http://www.wizanda.co.uk/modules/cjaycontent/index.php?id=2

That is a lot of the scriptures, please read through them carefully, as it will show you the truth of what Christ wanted of his followers.

 

[Chad]

You have a lot of things wrong. First, forget about "Saul". Saul was the old person who persecuted the church of Christ. After his incident on the way to Damascus, he is Paul, the new person. So whatever Saul did does not count. What Paul did does count. Keep in mind no one is perfect.

You said the bible was "the bible was re-arranged by an x-pagan who worked for the roman church ". Don't make a statement without proving it true. So please prove that true as I disbelieve you on that.

"Paul/Saul saw a light on the road to Damascus and changed yet how much did he change"

Do you read the Bible or not? Is that not clear enough how much he changed? He dedicated his entire life and beyond for Christ, was martyred as well. Falsely accused, imprisoned, many times beaten nearly to death, all for Jesus' name and sake. I think that says how much he dedicted his life.

"Yet Saul went back to work and didn’t trust god would provide all that he needed it is due to the fact Saul said if you don’t work you don’t eat that we have this slavery system that we all live in"

Why do you keep speaking of Saul? He is the old person. Plus, if he did something wrong - you have to many times so to me it looks like you are judging. God chose PAUL and he ended up writing a majority of the Bible. I think that says enough about his purpose on earth.

 

[wizanda]

I am sorry i just edited it so it is a bit easier for people to follow as a lot of that was a bit hard to digest in the way i stuck it to start

Please if you re-read you will see what i am getting at especialy if you look through the scriptures

Saul/Paul helped fetch in the harvest so he did a good job no one is taking that away from him

Yet on the other hand i was sent by god and many are not following god or are even finding heaven

You state he had a name change god adds a 'h' to peoples names it comes from the language god gave us and 'h' means god breathed

Where 'p' is to preach which Paul did yet it is remains a proverb with the name Saul (is Saul among the prophets)
This is proberbly why i use the name Saul so much in the previous post

 

[Chad]

Thanks for the response. I'm not understanding what you mean here...

"Yet on the other hand i was sent by god and many are not following god or are even finding heaven"

Literally speaking, yes many are not. That is the sad part of the world overall.

"You state he had a name change god adds a 'h' to peoples names it comes from the language god gave us and 'h' means god breathed"

What "h" in Paul/Saul's name? Sorry please explain. Thanks

 

[wizanda]

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/4_chart.htmlOk this is the root langauge basicaly pictures have meaning and so each name in the bible also translates into a picture explination.
If it has a 'h' at the end as in abram and sara, they became abraham and sarah
The 'h' implies that they have had the word of god breathed into them
A p implies that a man standing preaching if god had changed sauls name in line with the rest of scripture it would contain a 'h' ie saulah (a meaning strength)
Yet this is just a point, the problem is not in the name it is the stuff that has been said
A lot of people are being dulled to the true meaning of christs coming with out realising it by Paul

 

[JPJinks]

wizanda, I don't quite understand where you are going - but I have copied it out so I can look up the scriptures and compare one wit another. One thing we must be careful of is not to take a statement out of context and use it to prove our therories. Truth is not gained by putting together isolated sentences from the Bible, but always the parts must be seen in the light of the whole. In other words the true meaning of the verse is found within the contex of the chapter and the truth of the chapter is found in the contex of the book as a whole.

I'm not a Greek or Hebrew scholar but I do like to search out and compare - in other words I'm like the Berans who 'searched the Scriptures daily - whether these things were so'. I see I have some studing to do to night and will post my conclusions tomarrow. You sure know how to get a person into the Scriptures lol

 

[wizanda]

I agree and hopefuly i haven't taken any of the scriptures out of context
It was god who showed me the diffence to start and all i am trying to show is what he has shown me
At some point i may have used scripture over zealously, yet it is still to point out a contridiction.
Which over the years many have taken out of context and use as anti-christ doctrine stating to percercute sinners rather then love them as christ said

 

[JPJinks]

wizanda, You said "... over the years many have taken out of context and use as anti-christ doctrine stating to percercute sinners rather then love them as christ said"

On this point I agree. The Bible states in Heb 4:12 that it is 'sharper than any twoedged sword ...". When used in the natural (even well meaning Christians) it can mane, hurd, condemn, destroy and even bring death. We forget that it is the 'sword of the Spirit' (Eph 6: 17). The Word used by the Spirit or by the unction of the Spirit it will bring to the light what needs to be revealed and it will bring healing and peace.

 

[bchines]

Judge not least ye be judged.

Jesus said i judge no man. Paul said the spiritual man judges all things. I believe he is talking more of being a fruit inspector. As Jesus said you will know them by their fruit. Paul was not making a final Judgement as on judgement day. Which is resered for God alone. He was simply dealing with telling the difference between black and white issues. Sin or not sin.

 

[bchines]

Did Jesus drink wine.

We do know that Jesus made wine a the wedding. And it was fermented. We know that he drank of the fruit of the vine at the last supper, which was grape juice. And said he owuld drink it again in the kingdom. So to say that Jesus said only to drink water would not make sense.

 

[bchines]

Know the truth and the truth will make you free.

Wizanda, many if not all the statements can easly be explained by the truths of the bible. Lord help Wizanda to know the truth. Your friend b.c. hines.

 

[Joyful]

The Bible is the devine word of God and it never contradicts itself. It was written for believers and it is truth from genesis to revelations. The word of God gives us salvation, deliverence and healing.

 

[Joyful]

Thank you very much for welcoming me to this board today.

 

[JPJinks]

Okay, wizanda, I said I would do some research and here is part of it.
Again, I would admonish you not to take scriptures out of context, in doing so you will find a lot of seemingly contradictions. We have to be very careful to decern between the 'spiritual' and the 'natural'.

Concerning your point about the names: In the New Testament Saul is a Greek name and Paul is the Jewish translation of that name and it has nothing to do with the Saul mentioned in the Old Testament..
.
1. Christ said that we should not judge, Paul said that the spiritual may judge and should
not be judged.

Matt 7:1-2 “Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge , ye shall be judged: …….” (KJV)


This is a continuation of Jesus’ extended teaching called the Sermon on the Mount. All throughout this sermon Jesus was addressing the different facts that fulfilled, not the letter of the law, but spirit and intent of the law. The scribes and Pharisees were guilty of exercising a false judgment about themselves, other people, and even the Lord. Their false righteousness helped to encourage this false judgment


This section refers to rash, censorious, and unjust judgment. [See Rom 2:1] The Jews were highly guilty of this. Even now, by Adam’s inherent nature, man endeavors to elevate himself above others by judging.


Luke 6:37 explains it in the sense of "condemning." Christ does not condemn judging as a magistrate, for that, when according to justice, is lawful and necessary. Nor does he condemn our "forming an opinion" of the conduct of others, for it is impossible "not" to form an opinion of conduct that we know to be evil. But what he refers to is a habit of forming a judgment hastily, harshly, and without an allowance for every palliating circumstance, and a habit of "expressing" such an opinion harshly and unnecessarily when formed. It rather refers to private judgment than "judicial," and perhaps primarily to the customs of the scribes and Pharisees.


The first principle of judgment is that we begin with ourselves. Jesus did not forbid us to judge others, for careful discrimination is essential in the Christian life. Christian love is not blind (Phil 1:9-10). The person who believes all that he hears, and accepts everyone who claims to be spiritual will experience confusion and great spiritual loss. But before we judge others, we must judge ourselves.


'Paul said that the spiritual may judge and should not be judged.’ I do not know exactly what Scripture you are referring to, but will take a stab at it.


As is frequently the case with biblical truths, the Christian's role in exercising judgment on others is found in a tension between warnings to avoid judging others and admonitions concerning how best to judge others. Christians are forbidden to judge others when such judgment entails intolerance of another's sin coupled with blindness of one's own sin (Matt 7:1-5; Luke 6:37; John 8:7; Rom 2:1-4) or when human judgment impinges on God's prerogative as judge (Rom 14:4; 1 Cor 4:5; James 4:11-12).


Paul does give some instruction on the proper exercise of judgment. He encourages Christians to judge what is right for themselves and avoid taking one another to court. 1 Cor 6:1 ‘Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? 1 Cor 5: 3-5 gives instruction regarding church cases. 1 Cor 11: 31 “For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.”


2. Christ said that his disciples should only drink water; Paul made communion a religious Ritual.


I can find no Scripture reference that would even indicate that Jesus told his disciples to drink water only. It would have been much easier to research if you had given some Scripture references instead of just general statements.


Christ does refer to drinking water and the giving of a cup of water many times. It was a good method of illustrating what ever pint He was making at that particular time, because a cup of water in the eastern countries was not a matter of small worth. In India, the Hindus go sometimes a great way to fetch it, and then boil it that it may do the less hurt to travelers when they are hot; and, after that, they stand from morning to night in some great road, where there is neither pit nor rivulet, and offer it, in honor of their god, to be drunk by all who would pass by. This work of charity seems to have been practiced by the more pious and humane Jews; and our Lord assures them that, if they do this in His name, they shall not lose their reward.


Wine was the most common beverage in Palestine. It was a part of the daily fare of the Hebrew people. I’m sure Jesus drank a lot of it. The Scripture does condemn drunkenness and overindulgence of wine.


In the Communion ‘Ritual’ wine is figurative of the blood of Christ (Matt 26:27-29).


3. Christ said that god is the lord of the living; Paul said that we should remain with Christ in death.


Matt 22:32 – “I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. (Mark 12: 26 – 27; Luke 20: 38)


In this Christ was speaking to the Sadducees who did not believe in the resurrection. To them this life was all there was. I guess their motto was, “Eat and drink for tomorrow we die.” Jesus says these were spoken to Moses about 300 years after the death of Abraham; yet still, at this time, God calls himself the God of Abraham, etc. Now Christ properly observes that God is not the God of the dead (that word being equal, in the sense of the Sadducees, to an eternal annihilation), but of the living; showing that, even though their mortal bodies had ceased to exist, they were alive; alive with God. Also, in this, our Lord combats and confutes another opinion of the Sadducees, namely that there is neither angel nor spirit; by showing that the soul is not only immortal, but lives with God, even while the body is detained in the dust of the earth, which body is afterward to be raised to life, and united with its soul by the miraculous power of God, of which power they showed themselves to be ignorant when they denied the possibility of a resurrection.

I always like to tell people that I’m going to live forever. If they don’t know me they look startled and then I explain to them that this old body is going to return to death but ME, since I have been born again (born from above) will live forever and in His time He will clothe me in a new body.


We should remain with Christ in death: Again I can not find any what Scripture you are referring to. I know Paul says many times we are ‘dead’ in Christ’. But in all these Scriptures he is referring to being dead to this world. 2 Cor 4:11 says, “For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.” And Col 3: 3 – “For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.”


We, as Christians, are buried with Christ and are raised in newness of life. We are (should be) dead to all hopes of happiness from the present world; and, according to your profession, should feel no more appetite for the things of this life. To many times we like to visit the spiritual cemetery and dig up what is passed and try to resurrect it. Or claiming to be ‘dead and buried in Christ’ we make sure at least one hand is sticking out so we can grasp something ‘tangible’.

 

[JPJinks]

wizanda, I'm sorry. I went back and looked at your original posting and finally saw the web site addy posted. I went to the site and read every scripture - what a job. Right now my head is spinning - I think its from shaking my head so much. I think I will pull back on the searching out that I said I would do and ask you to do some of your own. In all that I read on your site I can find no contradiction in any of the scriptures.

I am going to break my own rule and take a scripture out of context, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures ...." (Matt22:29) (NIV)

There is absolutely no contradiction in the Scriptures. Again, don't take scriptures out of context to try and prove a point. Study who they (Jesus/Paul) were talking to, what motivated what they said. For example Jesus said that He came to fulfill the law. Here He was speaking to people who held to the letter of the law. Litteral sacrifices for sin, washing, ect. Jesus came and fufilled all the law once and forever. Paul said that Christ was the end of the law. As far as God's people people go we are no longer under that sacrifical law.

In love I pray that the eyes of your heart may be opened to the truth of the scripture.

 

[wizanda]

I thank you for taking the time to read through the scriptures on my site
I am aware that some of where i have pointed out contridictions, are because Paul was preaching to certain people
Yet if god had shown him all that he preached god is dynamic in time and dosent make mistakes that could lead to the world being in the state it is in today.
I to ask the lord to open my heart to where I may have made error
yet the thing is i have known this since i was born and when i final got round to reading the bible this is what god showed me after i had read it
Do you really find no contridiction in the wording or do you have to look deeper at the situation to see that it is not a contridiction if in that situation?
As to me at first i found them to be the same yet after the lord showed me and i look at them as inderviduals
The lord pointed out the diffrence then once i realised my faith in christ became stronger as i saw what his true meaning was, and then realised how much control had been inserted by Paul and how the church returned to what christ frowned apon

 

[JPJinks]

I really don't have much more to add to what has been said about these 'contradictions'. Again I will emphise - There is no contradictions in the scripture. Saul/Paul met the Lord and he was blinded. He spent three days in this state until Ananises came to pray for him. When he received his sight he immediatly began preaching. But there was a problem - he had the zeal but not the knowledge - and he caused so much trouble he had to be secreted out of the city by night by those who feared for his life. From there he went into what is called the back side of the desert. Here he spent three years seek God and studying. From there he went straight to Jerusalem to confere with the apostles/deciples and what he relayed to them they approved and sent him out with their blessings.

You said God showed you these things and you have studied them. Have you talked to your pastor or leaders of the church about these things? Do you have their approval on them?

The world is in the condition it is in today because of man's choice. A great number of people who call themselves Christians still rule their own lives. We are the dwelling place of God and within each of us is a throne. God should be on that throne directing our lives, but we chose to sit on the 'throne ourselves and have regulated God to a 'back closet' only letting Him peek out when we want Him to or when its convient for us.

A long time ago the devil saw he could not defeat the church so he joined it.And now works from the inside. for this reson when we say God spoke to us we must be very careful to make sure it is God and not just some thought that flew by and we grabbed onto. All Scripture is given by the insperation of God and God does not contradict His Word. You may say the Bible, as we know it, was put together (written) by man - and it was. But in that God has preserved what is essental for us to know. If there were contradictions it (the Bible) would have ceased to exist a long time ago.

I could go through your scriptures, item by item, and (try) to show you the errs. For example you said Jesus commands us to drink only water. Do you only drink water? Well Jesus didn't either. Then you might say the Bible never states that He actually drank wine. Again that is true; there are only indications that He did. But on the other hand, if He commanded it, why did He provide the means for others to sin? At the wedding feast He turned the water into wine.

I could go on and on with this but find it is something you will have to resolve it in your own mind and heart. But remember: "Zeal without knowledge; Counsel without wisdom; Workshops for the devil"

 

[pappa]

Wizanda .... I don't get what advantage there is to pointing out what you call "contradictions" between Jesus and Paul. I looked at a few of the scripture references and quite frankly I think whoever put that together is really stretching interpretations to make them into contraditions. If I have time I'll go through some of them and point out to you why they are not contradictions.

 

[pappa]

We do know that Jesus made wine a the wedding. And it was fermented. We know that he drank of the fruit of the vine at the last supper, which was grape juice. And said he owuld drink it again in the kingdom. So to say that Jesus said only to drink water would not make sense.

Where did you get the idea that "fruit of the vine" at the last supper was grape juice. I'd be interested to know, because I always thought of it as wine.

 

[bchines]

Papa, You had asked were I got that the wine at the last supper was only grape juice. well I though it was a different greek word. But at a closer look, since it says fruit of the vine, I'm not sure right now . But when the word wine is used it can mean fernebted or unfermented or grapes themselves. As in Isa. 65:8 It is called wine yet it is still in the cluster. Greek word gennema. I hope this helps. I'll look more on the other.