Predestination

[B-A-C]

Was Jesus predestined to be the savior of the world?

Did Jesus have a free will choice to be the savior of the world?

Yes and yes. Like I said earlier, they can overlap in some cases.
There are some things God says "WILL" happen. But generally he doesn't
control people decisions. At least not at first.

After Pharaoh hardened his heart six times, then God hardened his heart.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes and yes. Like I said earlier, they can overlap in some cases.
There are some things God says "WILL" happen. But generally he doesn't
control people decisions. At least not at first.

After Pharaoh hardened his heart six times, then God hardened his heart.

This is not true to scripture.

 

[B-A-C]

This is not true to scripture.

Exod 7:13 Yet Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exod 7:22 But the magicians of Egypt did the same with their secret arts; and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exod 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exod 8:19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exod 8:32 But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go.
Exod 9:7 Pharaoh sent, and behold, there was not even one of the livestock of Israel dead. But the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go.

...but finally.

Exod 9:12 And the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

 

[KingJ]

Was Jesus predestined to be the savior of the world?

Did Jesus have a free will choice to be the savior of the world?

Yes and yes. Luke 22:42 Father, if you are willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine be done.

 

[Brightfame52]

Exod 7:13 Yet Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exod 7:22 But the magicians of Egypt did the same with their secret arts; and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exod 8:15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exod 8:19 Then the magicians said to Pharaoh, "This is the finger of God." But Pharaoh's heart was hardened, and he did not listen to them, as the LORD had said.
Exod 8:32 But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go.
Exod 9:7 Pharaoh sent, and behold, there was not even one of the livestock of Israel dead. But the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, and he did not let the people go.

...but finally.

Exod 9:12 And the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and he did not listen to them, just as the LORD had spoken to Moses.

What about Chapter 4 Ex 4:21

21And the Lord said unto Moses, When thou goest to return into Egypt, see that thou do all those wonders before Pharaoh, which I have put in thine hand: but I will harden his heart, that he shall not let the people go.

I notices you skipped that verse, and its before Chapter 7, so again you have not dealt honesly in what you said.

 

[B-A-C]

I will harden his heart,

I "will", not I "have" already.

 

[Curtis]

The word of God (God) will always harden the heart of the one who hears it and refuses to obey it.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

[Brightfame52]

I "will", not I "have" already.

Right, thats the first mention, all subsequent hardening is the effect of God first hardening. You avoided that by skipping to Ex 7

Even when its said pharoah hardened his own heart it was the effect of wht God had first said Ex 7 22

22 And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the Lord had said.
Ex 8:15

But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said.

 

[KingJ]

Right, thats the first mention, all subsequent hardening is the effect of God first hardening. You avoided that by skipping to Ex 7

Even when its said pharoah hardened his own heart it was the effect of wht God had first said Ex 7 22

22 And the magicians of Egypt did so with their enchantments: and Pharaoh's heart was hardened, neither did he hearken unto them; as the Lord had said.
Ex 8:15

But when Pharaoh saw that there was respite, he hardened his heart, and hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had said.

You just don't care about how badly you misrepresent God.

Your life must be so nice being one of His cherry picked children who does not care about being His ambassador on earth to the lost that He loves and died for.

I asked you a number of direct questions on your belief. One just two days ago in the other thread 'limited atonement' which you are evading. You continually evade direct questions like a false teacher.

As a false teacher, you ARE going to hell. Think on that. I will bet my life's savings on someone teaching that God is partial NOT going to heaven. It is EVIL, your teaching is EVIL. You are NOT defending yourself. Probably one of the most evasive Calvinists I have ever chatted too. AT least others conceded to being at a brick wall T Junction. You just don't deal with the wall. You STICK your head in the ground. That is fine for you, but not for how you present God to the lost. God will give you a smack. Either now or in the life to come. You will NOT escape INCRIMINATING and MISREPRESENTING Him to the lost that He loves and died for. You can sleep on that FACT.

 

[Brightfame52]

You just don't care about how badly you misrepresent God.

Your life must be so nice being one of His cherry picked children who does not care about being His ambassador on earth to the lost that He loves and died for.

I asked you a number of direct questions on your belief. One just two days ago in the other thread 'limited atonement' which you are evading. You continually evade direct questions like a false teacher.

As a false teacher, you ARE going to hell. Think on that. I will bet my life's savings on someone teaching that God is partial NOT going to heaven. It is EVIL, your teaching is EVIL. You are NOT defending yourself. Probably one of the most evasive Calvinists I have ever chatted too. AT least others conceded to being at a brick wall T Junction. You just don't deal with the wall. You STICK your head in the ground. That is fine for you, but not for how you present God to the lost. God will give you a smack. Either now or in the life to come. You will NOT escape INCRIMINATING and MISREPRESENTING Him to the lost that He loves and died for. You can sleep on that FACT.

You the one misrepresenting God, His word, thats evil

 

[KingJ]

You the one misrepresenting God, His word, thats evil

You teach that God is partial when scripture is clear that He is not.

If I have two kids and only give one kid a candy bar, that is partiality. That is evil. That is Calvinism.

God is impartial Acts 10:34.

Now that you know your belief misrepresents God as evil to the lost that He loves and died for, good luck to you on judgment day when you will stand all alone before Him.

Our disagreement is not a trivial matter, you are guilty of a gross misrepresentation of God.

 

[B-A-C]

The Choice.

Deut 30:11; "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
Deut 30:12; "It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
Deut 30:13; "Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?'
Deut 30:14; "But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.
Deut 30:15; "See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity;
Deut 30:16; in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it.
Deut 30:17; "But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them,
Deut 30:18; I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it.
Deut 30:19; "I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
Deut 30:20; by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them."

It's up to you. You are the one who "chooses" life or death.

2Thes 2:10; and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.
2Thes 2:11; For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false,
2Thes 2:12; in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

God put the delusion upon them.. "because".. they did not receive the truth. They wouldn't accept it. It was their choice.

1Kin 18:21; Elijah came near to all the people and said, "How long will you hesitate between two opinions? If the LORD is God, follow Him; but if Baal, follow him." But the people did not answer him a word.

 

[B-A-C]

Josh 24:15; "If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."

 

[Brightfame52]

You teach that God is partial when scripture is clear that He is not.

If I have two kids and only give one kid a candy bar, that is partiality. That is evil. That is Calvinism.

God is impartial Acts 10:34.

Now that you know your belief misrepresents God as evil to the lost that He loves and died for, good luck to you on judgment day when you will stand all alone before Him.

Our disagreement is not a trivial matter, you are guilty of a gross misrepresentation of God.

You the one misrepresenting God, His word, thats evil

 

[Brightfame52]

You teach that God is partial when scripture is clear that He is not.

If I have two kids and only give one kid a candy bar, that is partiality. That is evil. That is Calvinism.

God is impartial Acts 10:34.

Now that you know your belief misrepresents God as evil to the lost that He loves and died for, good luck to you on judgment day when you will stand all alone before Him.

Our disagreement is not a trivial matter, you are guilty of a gross misrepresentation of God.

God has a elect people from amongst all ethnicities in the world, so He's not partial, from every nation. Again now you are misrepresenting me, I have not once stated God is partial

 

[KingJ]

God has a elect people from amongst all ethnicities in the world, so He's not partial, from every nation. Again now you are misrepresenting me, I have not once stated God is partial

Oh my, are you for real? You are confusing racism with partiality.

If there is NOTHING you can do to be elected, then it is partiality to the elected. This is not a question, its a statement of fact.

If I have two children (both black Mexicans from Spain that grew up in the Netherlands) and I give a candy bar (Heaven) to the one kid and not the other, in fact I kill the other, when they were both naughty children, that is GROSS partiality and evil.

Now, your replies are showing a real lack of thought. Please try type something of value.

 

[KingJ]

You the one misrepresenting God, His word, thats evil

Let's say you find yourself standing before God one day and about to be thrown into a fire and God says to you '''sorry Extuningishedfame52, you were just never on my short list, your mother, father, brother, sister, niece, nephew, children and all your friends were, but not you. I knew from birth that this was your fate and there was nothing you could do to change it. Now, any last words? Oh and by the way I am ''cough cough cough Impartial and a good , just and loving God''....now off to the flames you rejected sinner that nobody, let alone me ever loved or cared about.

And this is why 5 pt Calvinism is PURE evil. Please tell me that more then a '''God is not racist'' or a ''No, you'' reply is incoming....

Your belief makes me sick to my core and your replies are evidence of the ignorance required to have this belief.

 

[Brightfame52]

Oh my, are you for real? You are confusing racism with partiality.

If there is NOTHING you can do to be elected, then it is partiality to the elected. This is not a question, its a statement of fact.

If I have two children (both black Mexicans from Spain that grew up in the Netherlands) and I give a candy bar (Heaven) to the one kid and not the other, in fact I kill the other, when they were both naughty children, that is GROSS partiality and evil.

Now, your replies are showing a real lack of thought. Please try type something of value.

God has a elect people from amongst all ethnicities in the world, so He's not partial, from every nation. Again now you are misrepresenting me, I have not once stated God is partial

 

[Brightfame52]

Let's say you find yourself standing before God one day and about to be thrown into a fire and God says to you '''sorry Extuningishedfame52, you were just never on my short list, your mother, father, brother, sister, niece, nephew, children and all your friends were, but not you. I knew from birth that this was your fate and there was nothing you could do to change it. Now, any last words? Oh and by the way I am ''cough cough cough Impartial and a good , just and loving God''....now off to the flames you rejected sinner that nobody loves or cares about.

And this is why Calvinism is evil. Please tell me that more then a '''God is not racist'' reply is incoming....

Your belief makes me sick to my core and your replies are evidence of the ignorance required to have this belief.

You the one misrepresenting God, His word, thats evil

 

[KingJ]

You repeat your replies .

You know what the most hilarious thing with 5 point Calvinists is?

The FACT that you are A ok with serving a God that will do what I stated in post #37. Imagine that.