Rapture event - Poll

[KingJ]

These poll results will be interesting, I would think the vast majority of Christians believe in a pre-tribulation rapture event.

I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture for these three reasons.

1. The Holy Spirit, referred to as the Restrainer, will leave.

When Jesus left, He left us with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is part and parcel of Christianity as we know it. Without Him we cannot have faith in Jesus being Lord. If He leaves us, it will be like God leaving and forsaking us. The devil can also not have his way if the Holy Spirit and or Holy Spirit filled Christians are still here.

2 Thess 2:6-7 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

2. The tribulation period is a new dispensation

The criteria to come to God has changed. In this period, we need to mindful of rejecting the mark of the beast and if necessary, dying as a martyr. We can shout from the rooftops that we believe Jesus is Lord, if we have the mark of the beast, it matters naught! We need to meditate on this fact and grasp that so many scriptures become completely and utterly irrelevant.

Rev 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

3. God's plagues are not for Christians.

The tribulation period is an extremely terrible period as it is a final stage of filtering of the righteous from the wicked. Many Christians and good people are on the fence. The anti-christ will take you off it when he forces his mark. God will take you off it at the halfway mark when His plagues hit the earth.

Christians and good people currently receive some persecution in first world countries and a lot of persecution in certain Muslim and communist countries. We have always received persecution from evil people. As we draw closer to the tribulation period, we can expect this persecution to increase. But there is no reason for God to demand more testing from all Christians who have already proven themselves. Christians as described here - So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is! IE There is absolutely no reason to put true Christians through the next round of filtering.

When God's plagues hit the inhabitants of the earth, we see that scripture says, 'they repented not'. Does this sound like a Christian? A Christian 'repented not' when plague after plague hits?

Rev 9:20-21 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Conclusion:

The rapture will be pre-tribulation. All will experience increased persecution as we get closer to the tribulation. Please ensure that you are in fact a Christian and ready for the rapture! Please make 100% certain that you have witnessed and taught Jesus to all those you know!! The tribulation period is going to be the worst time in all of human history!!, according to Jesus in Matt 24.

Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matt 24:43-44 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

 

[KingJ]

Come guys, vote!! I have a bet riding on 1!!

 

[Still Learning]

These poll results will be interesting, I would think the vast majority of Christians believe in a pre-tribulation rapture event.

I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture for these three reasons.

1. The Holy Spirit, referred to as the Restrainer, will leave.

When Jesus left, He left us with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is part and parcel of Christianity as we know it. Without Him we cannot have faith in Jesus being Lord. If He leaves us, it will be like God leaving and forsaking us. The devil can also not have his way if the Holy Spirit and or Holy Spirit filled Christians are still here.

2 Thess 2:6-7 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

1 Cor 12:3 Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

2. The tribulation period is a new dispensation

The criteria to come to God has changed. In this period, we need to mindful of rejecting the mark of the beast and if necessary, dying as a martyr. We can shout from the rooftops that we believe Jesus is Lord, if we have the mark of the beast, it matters naught! We need to meditate on this fact and grasp that so many scriptures become completely and utterly irrelevant.

Rev 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

3. God's plagues are not for Christians.

The tribulation period is an extremely terrible period as it is a final stage of filtering of the righteous from the wicked. Many Christians and good people are on the fence. The anti-christ will take you off it when he forces his mark. God will take you off it at the halfway mark when His plagues hit the earth.

Christians and good people currently receive some persecution in first world countries and a lot of persecution in certain Muslim and communist countries. We have always received persecution from evil people. As we draw closer to the tribulation period, we can expect this persecution to increase. But there is no reason for God to demand more testing from all Christians who have already proven themselves. Christians as described here - So tired of Christians not knowing what a Christian is! IE There is absolutely no reason to put true Christians through the next round of filtering.

When God's plagues hit the inhabitants of the earth, we see that scripture says, 'they repented not'. Does this sound like a Christian? A Christian 'repented not' when plague after plague hits?

Rev 9:20-21 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Conclusion:

The rapture will be pre-tribulation. All will experience increased persecution as we get closer to the tribulation. Please ensure that you are in fact a Christian and ready for the rapture! Please make 100% certain that you have witnessed and taught Jesus to all those you know!! The tribulation period is going to be the worst time in all of human history!!, according to Jesus in Matt 24.

Matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matt 24:43-44 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

HOW TERRIBLE it will be for you who long for THE DAY OF THE LORD! Why do you want it to come? That day will be dark, not light. It will be like a man running away from a lion only to meet a bear. He enters his house and rests his hand on a wall only to be bitten by a snake. (Amos 5:18-19)​

For yourselves know perfectly that THE DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, AS TRAVAIL upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3)​

​

For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these events are the beginning of LABOR PAINS. (Matthew 24:7-8)​

​

Don’t let your heart be TROUBLED. Believe in God; BELIEVE also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come again and take you to myself, so that where I am you may be also. (John 14:1-3)​

Lord, IN TROUBLE have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them. Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O Lord. We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, ENTER THOU INTO THY CHAMBERS, and shut thy doors about thee: HIDE THYSELF as it were for a little moment, UNTIL THE INDIGNATION BE OVERPAST For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place TO PUNISH THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. (Isaiah 26:16-21)​

​

It sure seems to me that if when there is a time trouble coming (the Day of the Lord), that has everyone so stressed and fearful that they feel like they're in labor, is when God's people, believers who comprise His Church/Body/Bride, are to be called up to the Father's house to be hidden away in our rooms/chambers during a time when the Lord's INDIGNATION is taking place while the Lord punishes everyone on the Earth for their iniquities, that this would mean the Church is raptured away before the world's punishment begins. Just like how God couldn't pour out His wrath on Sodom until the righteous were removed from the time and place of God's judgment, so will Christ's righteous Church/Body/Bride need to be removed from the time and place of the coming wrath of the Trib judgments/wrath which will be poured out onto every single person alive on the Earth.

​

You have kept my command to remain strong in the faith no matter what happens. So I will keep you from the time of suffering. That time is going to come to the whole world. It will test those who live on the earth. (Revelation 3:10)​

​

THEN the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and EVERYONE else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us FROM THE FACE OF HIM WHO SITS ON THE THRONE AND FROM THE WRATH OF THE LAMB! For the great day of THEIR WRATH HAS COME, and who can withstand it? (Revelation 6:15-17)​

 

[bowwow]

HOW TERRIBLE it will be for you who long for THE DAY OF THE LORD! Why do you want it to come? That day will be dark, not light. It will be like a man running away from a lion only to meet a bear. He enters his house and rests his hand on a wall only to be bitten by a snake. (Amos 5:18-19)​

For yourselves know perfectly that THE DAY OF THE LORD so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, AS TRAVAIL upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. (1 Thessalonians 5:2-3)​

​

For nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these events are the beginning of LABOR PAINS. (Matthew 24:7-8)​

​

Don’t let your heart be TROUBLED. Believe in God; BELIEVE also in me. In my Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going to prepare a place for you? If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come again and take you to myself, so that where I am you may be also. (John 14:1-3)​

Lord, IN TROUBLE have they visited thee, they poured out a prayer when thy chastening was upon them. Like as a woman with child, that draweth near the time of her delivery, is in pain, and crieth out in her pangs; so have we been in thy sight, O Lord. We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen. Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, ENTER THOU INTO THY CHAMBERS, and shut thy doors about thee: HIDE THYSELF as it were for a little moment, UNTIL THE INDIGNATION BE OVERPAST For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place TO PUNISH THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. (Isaiah 26:16-21)​

​

It sure seems to me that if when there is a time trouble coming (the Day of the Lord), that has everyone so stressed and fearful that they feel like they're in labor, is when God's people, believers who comprise His Church/Body/Bride, are to be called up to the Father's house to be hidden away in our rooms/chambers during a time when the Lord's INDIGNATION is taking place while the Lord punishes everyone on the Earth for their iniquities, that this would mean the Church is raptured away before the world's punishment begins. Just like how God couldn't pour out His wrath on Sodom until the righteous were removed from the time and place of God's judgment, so will Christ's righteous Church/Body/Bride need to be removed from the time and place of the coming wrath of the Trib judgments/wrath which will be poured out onto every single person alive on the Earth.

​

You have kept my command to remain strong in the faith no matter what happens. So I will keep you from the time of suffering. That time is going to come to the whole world. It will test those who live on the earth. (Revelation 3:10)​

​

THEN the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and EVERYONE else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us FROM THE FACE OF HIM WHO SITS ON THE THRONE AND FROM THE WRATH OF THE LAMB! For the great day of THEIR WRATH HAS COME, and who can withstand it? (Revelation 6:15-17)​

Typical pre-trib deception. The Day of the Lord is NOT the Tribulation period. Pre-tribbers HAD TO claim that it is because the scriptures are quite clear - the Lord returns AFTER - at the END of tribulation - NOT 7 years before.

I believe Jesus and NOT pre-tribbers who said the gathering occurs AFTER tribulation. Paul also said the same thing. Pre-trib - the most fabricated pile of nonsense to ever enter this debacle of a religion.

The tribulation has a purpose. It's to purify the Church by bringing it to repentance, and to restore Israel. The rapture happens in Revelation 14 just before God's wrath is poured out so that Christians aren't the recipients of, and God is not guilty of, "friendly fire" like the plagues in chapter 15.

 

[KingJ]

Typical pre-trib deception.

Please quote a point in my OP and state why you disagree.

The tribulation has a purpose. It's to purify the Church by bringing it to repentance,

Are no Christians today purified? God needs to put the devil on Christians to purify them? You don't think it would be abandoning of Christians by God? Like throwing a cop into prison with criminals he placed there? It is a different story if a prisoner becomes a cop.

and to restore Israel.

What have gentiles and Christians to do with His restoration of Israel?

The rapture happens in Revelation 14 just before God's wrath is poured out so that Christians aren't the recipients of, and God is not guilty of, "friendly fire" like the plagues in chapter 15.

Ok, so you believe mid trib. Not a massive disagreement really. Place your vote!! .

 

[Still Learning]

Typical pre-trib deception. The Day of the Lord is NOT the Tribulation period. Pre-tribbers HAD TO claim that it is because the scriptures are quite clear - the Lord returns AFTER - at the END of tribulation - NOT 7 years before.

I believe Jesus and NOT pre-tribbers who said the gathering occurs AFTER tribulation. Paul also said the same thing. Pre-trib - the most fabricated pile of nonsense to ever enter this debacle of a religion.

The tribulation has a purpose. It's to purify the Church by bringing it to repentance, and to restore Israel. The rapture happens in Revelation 14 just before God's wrath is poured out so that Christians aren't the recipients of, and God is not guilty of, "friendly fire" like the plagues in chapter 15.

I cited Scriptures which prove the truth. I stand on the Scriptures. You stand on your own opinion. I like where I stand much better. I will not be moved to where you're standing.

 

[bowwow]

Please quote a point in my OP and state why you disagree.



Are no Christians today purified? God needs to put the devil on Christians to purify them? You don't think it would be abandoning of Christians by God? Like throwing a cop into prison with criminals he placed there? It is a different story if a prisoner becomes a cop.



What have gentiles and Christians to do with His restoration of Israel?



Ok, so you believe mid trib. Not a massive disagreement really. Place your vote!! .

I need to get away from the foolishness of this forum. Actually - the foolishness of the average christian. Screw every dispensationalist on this flocking earth. Please ban me from these idiots - I hate all of you! I want NOTHING to do with this debacle of a religion because it outright sucks. Please ******* ban me - PLEASE!

 

[Still Learning]

Typical pre-trib deception. The Day of the Lord is NOT the Tribulation period. Pre-tribbers HAD TO claim that it is because the scriptures are quite clear - the Lord returns AFTER - at the END of tribulation - NOT 7 years before.

I believe Jesus and NOT pre-tribbers who said the gathering occurs AFTER tribulation. Paul also said the same thing. Pre-trib - the most fabricated pile of nonsense to ever enter this debacle of a religion.

The tribulation has a purpose. It's to purify the Church by bringing it to repentance, and to restore Israel. The rapture happens in Revelation 14 just before God's wrath is poured out so that Christians aren't the recipients of, and God is not guilty of, "friendly fire" like the plagues in chapter 15.

If you want to go in the event where people are "taken" away at the end of the Trib at the 2nd coming event, I'm pretty sure that you will be taken then. That's NOT a good thing to go in. It's where the unrighteous are "taken" to their destruction. The AMP Bible makes it very clear why people are "taken" at the end of the Trib at the 2nd coming event. And to be told you will be taken at that event is not an "encouraging" message. It's a downright terrifying message.

For the coming of the Son of Man (the Messiah) will be just like the days of Noah. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah entered the ark, and they did not know or understand until the flood came and swept them all AWAY; so will the coming of the Son of Man be [unexpected judgment]. At that time two men will be in the field; one will be TAKEN [for judgment] and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be TAKEN [for judgment] and one will be left. So be alert [give strict attention, be cautious and active in faith], for you do not know which day [whether near or far] your Lord is coming. (Matthew 24:37-42)​

But born again Christians get taken before the Trib. And this is a very encouraging message.

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18)​

​

You don't know what you're talking about. Stop spreading lies and insults. Repent.

 

[Still Learning]

The rapture happens in Revelation 14 just before God's wrath is poured out

That's so weird! God pours out His wrath onto everyone during the Seal Judgments way way back in Revelation chapter 6:15-17. How did you miss it. Wait! I know. You don't actually read your Bible do you? It really looks like all you do is listen to teachers who tell you what to believe. What a (deleted)!


THEN the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and EVERYONE else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us FROM THE FACE OF HIM WHO SITS ON THE THRONE AND FROM THE WRATH OF THE LAMB! FOR THE GREAT DAY OF THEIR WRATH HAS COME, and who can withstand it? (Revelation 6:15-17)

 

[Christ4Ever]

Play nice brethren or at the very least members!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Still Learning]

Play nice brethren or at the very least members!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

Be fair in your refereeing.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Be fair in your refereeing.

I truly attempt to be.
Sadly, bowwow has been banned. He received warning pts. for vulgar language, and the system when it sees you achieve 3-4 accumulated active warning pts. will ban the person automatically.

I thought I say something since you were in discussion with him.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Still Learning]

I truly attempt to be.
Sadly, bowwow has been banned. He received warning pts. for vulgar language, and the system when it sees you achieve 3-4 accumulated active warning pts. will ban the person automatically.

I thought I say something since you were in discussion with him.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

I see. Before you posting this to me I could see his posts were not censored like mine was for way less of an offense. I found that to be unfair. But now that you let me know that dog is gone, I see reason to have faith in your moderating abilities. Thanks for letting me in on the info.

 

[joestue]

i voted for 3.

i believe Jesus will come back, setup a kingdom on earth in the middle east literally.. but without killing anyone except as nessisary. (as in the events of revelation are historical to the 70 ad destruction of the old kingdom)

this.. will cause many christians to reject Jesus. just like the jews, they wanted the wicked destroyed.

"1000" years go by with satan locked up for real. for right now, "now is the judgement, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out" -john 12:31. this is ongoing. if you notice, things are actually getting better on this planet, statistically speaking. however, the earth is full of violence as in the days of noah. not physical violence.. but rather the other synonym in the bible for violence: adultery. as it is now, people are getting lazy, asking "when is the end?"

so Jesus could come back at any time, no warning. the past warning was for the christians to watch for the abomination to desolate the temple. nero.. or whoever it was.

After the 1000 years, satan is let loose to gather up the passive wicked who don't want to abide "in" Jesus' kingdom, but are otherwise probably non violent.
this is in spite of the resurrected saints who lost their head.. literally living on this earth for 1000 years. like the elves in lord of the rings, living for "1000" years as a witness: with all of their memories of their lifetimes in the past... as a testimony that God really did resurrect them. -these folks will not die again. they will live on the still partially corrupted earth and heaven in their new glorified bodies. radiationg God's glory. so the passive wicked who won't repent but continue to reproduce.. will.. i have no idea. hate them? ignore them? i don't know.

the rest of us will live long lives but not 1000 years. "anyone who died 100 years would be thought to be cursed" -so 200-300. maybe much longer. -after the christian dies in the next age, they then arrive at the next resurrection into their glorified bodies on the new earth.

if jesus comes back in our lifetime, we will not live to be 100. we have too much sin and corruption. takes time to purge your souls, and bodies, of sin. your children will also be born with your sin nature.. so gradually over time people become more righteous physically, but also more naïve. there will be less evil to teach them right from wrong.. there may be no demons to tempt them, but their own flesh.
-that's what the resurrected saints are for. you could call them the pagan idea of the ascended masters. both a teacher and a witness and watchman.

at the end of the 1000 years there is the war prophesied of in revelation, and there may be a rapture at that time.

or what will happen is the earth and heaven will be transformed into the new earth and new heaven, completely.. and i mean this, completely free of evil and sin and satan.

its this last part that i do believe God has revealed to me. and in one of my more recent comments i mentioned... that declaration i have made on reddit in a few places but one of them was 3 years ago.. is the only one that attracts demons to entice people to privately message me and tell me i'm a witch. its weird...

but basically i believe nt wrights book "surprised by hope" is basically accurate. he just doesn't take it as far as i do because.. he'd be declared a heretic.. as he already is in the minds of some.

 

[joestue]

I truly attempt to be.
Sadly, bowwow has been banned.

did you read his comment where he says he was a minister but fell away from the faith? it was one of the first posts he made on the forum months ago.

 

[KingJ]

I need to get away from the foolishness of this forum. Actually - the foolishness of the average christian. Screw every dispensationalist on this flocking earth. Please ban me from these idiots - I hate all of you! I want NOTHING to do with this debacle of a religion because it outright sucks. Please ******* ban me - PLEASE!

Your full-time job as a Christian is being an ambassador for Jesus 2 Cor 5:20. This involves contending for the truth Jude 1:3 and shining for Jesus Matt 5:16.

You need to get a thicker skin. You cannot learn or help the body of Christ if this is how you react to a small disagreement.

 

[Still Learning]

Your full-time job as a Christian is being an ambassador for Jesus 2 Cor 5:20. This involves contending for the truth Jude 1:3 and shining for Jesus Matt 5:16.

You need to get a thicker skin. You cannot learn or help the body of Christ if this is how you react to a small disagreement.

If someone believes that Christ's Church/Body/Bride will go through the Trib in order to get purified, they clearly lack faith in Jesus to have dealt with our sin problem. And this exposes them as phony Christians seeing as they don't have faith in Jesus to have dealt with our sin problem on the cross. And if you lack faith in Jesus, you cannot be saved because we are saved according to our faith in Jesus.

The bowwow was not a part of the Church/Body/Bride. He's clearly a wolf with a poor lamb disguise. He showed his teeth to prove this.

 

[Christ4Ever]

did you read his comment where he says he was a minister but fell away from the faith? it was one of the first posts he made on the forum months ago.

Dear joestue,
I don't recall reading of him being in Ministery. I was aware that there was another member who attempting to help him with issues he was having, but nothing specific and I don't know that anything resulted from this either positive or negative.

I had communicated as well with him, but that will remain private. I am glad that it appears you have concern for him. Keep praying for him that wherever he finds himself, that the path leads to Jesus, for Jesus and not for any other reason. We know our God does not relinquish those who He has made His.

Don't be surprised if he finds himself back to us here, under another name. Some who get banned do. Since the system is the one that banned him, it will not be like the Staff will be on the lookout for him, in order to ban him again. I do recall one lady that kept coming back 4-5 times over a couple of years. Different names, but the same writing styles amongst other clues. I hope she has come to Jesus, but the darkness that was inside her always raised up to resist the calling of the Holy Spirit. Some would have called her a troll, I just called her a lost soul.

Anyway, thanks for your concern.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Dave M]

If someone believes that Christ's Church/Body/Bride will go through the Trib in order to get purified, they clearly lack faith in Jesus to have dealt with our sin problem. And this exposes them as phony Christians seeing as they don't have faith in Jesus to have dealt with our sin problem on the cross. And if you lack faith in Jesus, you cannot be saved because we are saved according to our faith in Jesus.

The bowwow was not a part of the Church/Body/Bride. He's clearly a wolf with a poor lamb disguise. He showed his teeth to prove this.

I so so disagree with this statement, and you make claims and assumptions that are just plain wrong. We all need purifying, the Bible calls it sanctification, If what you say is correct we would go to heaven the second we believe, but instead we live on the earth and go through trials and tribulation in order to grow stronger in Christ. People should know if they are born again, when we get a new heart and a new spirit it will change the way we live. But most mature Believers never argue about the timing of the rapture and make accusation about there brothers in Christ, the Bible is not 100% clear on the timing of the rapture.

We are saved before Jesus returns, so the timing of the rapture matter not, focus on encouragement with in the body. If you like to speculate as I have do with a humble loving heart state your case and move on, once you start making accusations you are working for the other side,,,, BTW I am very guilty of this so I know not judging anyone, just sharing what I have learned.

You can never say someone has no faith because of the timing of the rapture is different from your view, that is a very dangerous statement.

 

[KingJ]

We all need purifying, the Bible calls it sanctification,

What scripture are you referring to here?

If you are referring to Heb 10:14 which I assume you are, you are incorrect to group ''purifying'' with ''sanctification''.

Heb 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

Note the ''he has perfected for all time''. The first part of this passage refers to purifying. By a single offering He has 'perfectly purified'. The context of sanctification here is, already perfected Christians go from glory to glory. Sanctification here has absolutely nothing to do with salvation and or purification.

2 Cor 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

From glory to glory we become more like God. When we are first saved, we are made perfect to God by the offering of Jesus. We are then washed daily to be more like God. Closer to God. Completely separate matter from initial salvation / purification!!

Your non-OSAS insertions into scripture are taking place here. I am always weary of posts that contain no scriptures.

If what you say is correct we would go to heaven the second we believe

Correct and this is 100% true. We see this with the thief next to Jesus on the cross.

This should lead us to conclude that if in fact we are not taken to heaven, God desires for us to serve Him on earth. He needs us to reach the lost for Him. Talking donkeys can do the trick, but are most certainly His last resort.

Rom 12:11 Do not be slothful in zeal, be fervent in spirit, serve the Lord.

If at any point we die, we die in Christ and will go straight to heaven.

2 Cor 5:8 we are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

, but instead we live on the earth and go through trials and tribulation in order to grow stronger in Christ.

Care how you word that. A non-OSAS belief is a works based salvation. Imagine teaching that after reading Heb 10:14.

If you disagree, I want you to know that after being on this site for many years, I have yet to read a single non-OSAS believer make a sound case for their salvation not being works based. So, good luck with that.

If you ''don't'' grow stronger in Christ, if you ''fall'' in your trial, eternal hell for your sorry soul = non-OSAS. Convince me otherwise, go floor is yours....

People should know if they are born again, when we get a new heart and a new spirit it will change the way we live.

Agree 100%. Now why do you believe in non-OSAS after that statement?

But most mature Believers never argue about the timing of the rapture and make accusation about there brothers in Christ, the Bible is not 100% clear on the timing of the rapture.

Agreed. No need for heated lines on this topic.

We are saved before Jesus returns, so the timing of the rapture matter not, focus on encouragement with in the body.

Agree 100%. Now why do you believe in non-OSAS after that statement?

If you like to speculate as I have do with a humble loving heart state your case and move on, once you start making accusations you are working for the other side,,,, BTW I am very guilty of this so I know not judging anyone, just sharing what I have learned.

You can never say someone has no faith because of the timing of the rapture is different from your view, that is a very dangerous statement.

Agreed.

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Brother Dave, we need to be so careful on our wording with regards to purification, sanctification and salvation. We can so easily stumble someone weak in their faith.

The space that non-OSAS should ''keep to'' is the following:

1 Cor 10:12 clearly says ''So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!''.

We can think we are saved and not be saved. That should be the the A-Z of a non-OSAS belief.

The moment 'you guys' start teaching 'more', you end up tainting God as a fool who does not truly love or trust us. Leaving Christians very insecure and confused. Non-OSAS implies:

1. God is a fool who cannot properly vet a person.
2. We need to be terrified of eternal punishment in hell, even if we have given our life to Jesus
3. We need to avoid witnessing in areas where we can fall into sin. Leave that to those who are fine with eternal fire.
4. We need to witness to people in dangerous areas, the sooner we die the better our odds of getting to heaven.
5. We need to keep working to stay saved, else we may go to hell. Works based salvation > true conversion and faith in Jesus.