(Refuting) The (Original Sin) Doctrine!!

[Christ4Ever]

LOL!!!! Dear Sister, I beg your forgiveness for calling you Brother!
The Holy Spirit gave me a twitch that it was so, but I'm a bit obstinate at times, and sadly don't always listen as much as I should and so the !

“So, were it possible, which I do not believe it so. A person could be without sin, but still not enter the Kingdom of God. Unless by the rejection of Jesus it would be as one who has blasphemed the Holy Spirit and so, has sinned according to Scripture.”

I believe this is not possible. Firstly, according to Scriptures’ prophecy, there is not one righteous, except the sinless Jesus. (Psalm 53, Romans 3:10) Every single person who has ever walked the earth for a good deal of time has fallen short of the grace of God, and therefore is in need of repentance of sin committed somewhere in their lives. So it is already impossible for anyone to be without sin, unless they died an infant or a child. By rejecting Jesus, they also reject the only propitiation for sin, which means they remain spiritually dead (ie. not born again). According to Scriptures, they are already condemned (John 3:18), because their sin never gets blotted out due to their unbelief. So it is not possible for a person to be without sin, and even more impossible for such a person to enter the kingdom of God should they choose to reject Jesus.

“So, do you also believe that this propensity to sin (not to actually commit sin) in this corruptible flesh will continue to be the Cross we bare until which time we receive the promise given to us of Glorified Bodies (Philippians 3:21, 1 Corinthians 15:42)?”

Yes, this is exactly why Jesus commanded us to deny ourselves take up our crosses and follow Him. (Matthew 16:14). Take up the cross for what purpose? To crucify the flesh with its passions and desires (Galatians 5:24). To put to death the deeds of the flesh. (Romans 8:13) This is the work accomplished of the cross.

I agree with what you are saying, but it really doesn't answer the "what if" scenario I posed. I don't usually use what if scenarios, but in all my years, I find in certain cases it helps to clarify certain positions. Now, where was I??...Oh, you're assuming that everyone will sin, while my scenario is one based on if one were not to sin, even though they have the propensity for it.

I realize that it's not fair asking this. For I know we have no way of knowing for sure, but the possibility is there since as Brother spiriteddove05 states, and the whole basis for this thread being loosely based upon when sin is imputed on humanity and is conditioned upon the act of sin. The belief that it would be unfair of God to punish us if sin were unavoidable, makes for the possibility of one being able to be without sin from birth.

Keeping that in mind. What you stated as far as the rejection of Christ and His atonement, would in truth only apply to someone who has sinned. In all fairness to God, we must allow for the possibility that it could happen, at least according to our Brother. So, could said person be able to enter the Kingdom of God, without the need for knowing Christ as their Savior or is that a sin in and of itself?

So, as to not make this more then it is. For I personally just have a difficult time believing that our God would send Jesus to die on the Cross if it were possible for one to live a life of many years without ever sinning. However, I do have to ask.....What say you Sister!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Enxu]

LOL!!!! Dear Sister, I beg your forgiveness for calling you Brother!
The Holy Spirit gave me a twitch that it was so, but I'm a bit obstinate at times, and sadly don't always listen as much as I should and so the !



I agree with what you are saying, but it really doesn't answer the "what if" scenario I posed. I don't usually use what if scenarios, but in all my years, I find in certain cases it helps to clarify certain positions. Now, where was I??...Oh, you're assuming that everyone will sin, while my scenario is one based on if one were not to sin, even though they have the propensity for it.

I realize that it's not fair asking this. For I know we have no way of knowing for sure, but the possibility is there since as Brother spiriteddove05 states, and the whole basis for this thread being loosely based upon when sin is imputed on humanity and is conditioned upon the act of sin. The belief that it would be unfair of God to punish us if sin were unavoidable, makes for the possibility of one being able to be without sin from birth.

Keeping that in mind. What you stated as far as the rejection of Christ and His atonement, would in truth only apply to someone who has sinned. In all fairness to God, we must allow for the possibility that it could happen, at least according to our Brother. So, could said person be able to enter the Kingdom of God, without the need for knowing Christ as their Savior or is that a sin in and of itself?

So, as to not make this more then it is. For I personally just have a difficult time believing that our God would send Jesus to die on the Cross if it were possible for one to live a life of many years without ever sinning. However, I do have to ask.....What say you Sister!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

No worries at all!

Let me make myself clearer. It is not my assumption that everyone will sin, it is an actual prophecy of the Bible in Psalm 53, which is quoted in Romans when Paul wrote to the church. A prophecy is a statement of fact predicting the future. God in His foreknowledge already know before mankind came into existence that everyone will in one way or another sin throughout all generations. That is why He inspired the psalm writer to write Psalm 53, saying that not one is righteous. This is a statement of fact based on the truthfulness of the Scriptures, not a mere assumption.

But since you want to discuss about the “what if” scenario we can go ahead to do so, but I must say it will be based more on human reasoning rather than Scriptures.

It is indeed unjust for God to impute sin on mankind if they are in a helpless state of sinfulness from birth. If they are born sinners why then do God still find fault? This is not only against human logic, but against the Scriptures starting from OT. When God delivered Israel from the slavery of Egypt, He clearly set before them two choices: obey Him and receive His blessings or disobey Him and receive His curses. If the Israelites of OT are given such choices to make, (take note that this is during the time when the Spirit of God had not even been poured out on flesh ie. no one is born again) it is clearly the case that no one is born a sinner, which is why they can choose obedience or disobedience to God. The Israelites did have a propensity or rather preference to choose disobedience to God due to the corrupted flesh (disobedience to God is itself act of sinning), which is shown by their actions in the wilderness, but they are able to overcome that propensity since God gave them the choice to not sin (ie. obey His commands).

As for whether one can go to the kingdom of God without having the knowledge of Christ, no, it is not possible since Jesus Himself said no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born again of water and the Spirit. But not knowing Christ is not a sin in itself, provided that they indeed never even heard about Christ and is different from rejecting Christ which was what was mentioned in previous post. How can anyone reject Christ if they never even heard about Him? So, if they never heard about Christ, but they did somehow manage to live a life without sin, they will be accepted by God and given the knowledge of Christ eventually. Paul wrote about those Gentiles who never heard the law of Moses yet these people are a law to themselves because they lived by the law of their consciences. They will be judged based on how they lived not their lack of knowledge of Moses’ law. I believe the same applies to those who never had the chance to hear about Jesus.

But if you mean not knowing Christ as in not believing in Him even after hearing about Him, such a person cannot be without sin. Why? Because if a person truly lived a life of righteousness, that person in his conscience already knows and loves the truth of God to some extent. Were such a person to hear about Christ, his response would naturally be to believe in Him because His doctrine and truth would be in agreement with his righteous way of living. A person who lived righteously would love the truth and thus would gladly receive and believe in Jesus who IS the truth.

A person who would actually reject Jesus is already a person who had sin in his life because as Jesus said, such people love darkness. They do not want their sins to be exposed by Jesus and want to live in sin which is why they reject Him in the first place. I see no other reason why a person will reject Jesus, do you?

 

[spiriteddove05]

Thanks for those questions. From personal experience I do find that it is through discussion that God reveals to me the correct understanding of Scripture by His Spirit. So I gladly answer your questions. Feel free to examine my answers to see if they line up with the truth.

“Is it our actual first committed sin or the sin nature inherited from Adam which separates us from God?”

From the Scriptures it is shown that the moment Adam sinned there was a spiritual death that occurred and also that there was a propensity to sin in the carnal nature. Jesus Himself taught that unless one is born again of the Spirit, one cannot enter the kingdom of God. Likewise, both of the OT and the NT teaches that sin separates us from God in terms of Him no longer hearing our prayers or dwelling with us. So the sin committed by Adam disqualified mankind from entering the kingdom of God (unless one is born again), and the subsequent sins committed by each individual separates him/her from an active relationship and fellowship with God. The first separation is a separation from God’s kingdom for all mankind, the second is a separation from a relationship with God for every individual who sins. In conclusion, I would say both results in separation from God.

“Does perfection mean that man cannot even have the proclivity to sin and is the reason why when we are Born Again, it is that which we no longer have which in Christ Jesus allows us to not sin?”

As long as we have not put away this corruptible flesh, there will always be a propensity to sin. What allowed us to stop practising sin is the work Jesus accomplished on the cross through His shed blood. He freed us from the power and bondage of sin when we believe in Him. So under this new condition, we have power from His Spirit to overcome temptations and not sin each time temptations come. As a Christian matures, the actual amount of sinning should logically decrease because true Christians will learn how to overcome temptations over time. It is like learning how to ride a bicycle or a new skill. The practise of resisting temptations should logically make a Christian sin less and less until he/she is so well trained that he achieves perfection in resisting temptations. Once that perfection is reached, a Christian may stop sinning entirely simply because he/she has mastered the art of resisting all kinds of temptations. Meanwhile, there is and will still be a propensity to sin in his nature.

ohh and addressing perfection!! bible says matt 5:48 be perfect as he is meaning 4 example let me give an analogy! to run (as) usain bolt runs would be 2 sprint in like fashion running quickly and driving ur arms! but if we were 2 run (like) usain bolt we would sprint but also lift up our chest, drive our arms and run with long strides!! understand the difference?

we could nether run as fast as him unless we were maybe on lots of steroids but I think u get my point!! same with Christ!!

 

[spiriteddove05]

Dear @spiriteddove05
You have me curious Brother, and not as an insult, but just to satisfy my curiosity. Why in your response to me in Post #34 you use broken grammar while in your Post #36 to another it appears quite clear?

Now to the contents of your post. Thank-you for responding brother to my inquiry. Your response does promote a question/s.



If the 1st sin is that which condemns us, and your reasoning is that and I quote "God would be unfair 4 punishing us 4 the unavoidable" then what you are saying is that the propensity to sin, does not mean one will commit sin, and makes it possible though not probable for one to live a life without ever having committed a sin.

I also pose to you for your consideration what I mentioned to Brother Enxu in my post to him.

A person could be without sin, but still not enter the Kingdom of God. Unless by the rejection of Jesus it would be as one who has blasphemed the Holy Spirit and so, has sinned according to Scripture.

Now I have another question for you since you also have included the "corrupted flesh". I guess I should include also include Brother @Enxu with this question, so I'll join him to this post and now ask my question.

What is it that makes our flesh corrupted and is it from birth? (NEVERMIND) I do believe that you answered this by your last paragraph. I have a couple of questions to flesh out your reasoning on that topic. However, if you Brother Enxu would care to reply to this one, it would be greatly appreciated.

Now Brother spiriteddove05. This is a bit off topic, but I believe necessary for understanding what you have communicated in this thread.

Do you believe that the demons that reside in the flesh of man is what makes the flesh corrupted or are the affects of their residence something else entirely? And another question this brings to my mind which is appropriate to the topic. Does the possession by demons occur at birth?

There are many more questions which your last paragraph bring to mind, but so that we don't go too far afield from the original topic. I'll leave it here.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

ohh its from my facebook days!! its just quick writing, facebook jargon, and I also copy and paste stuff dat I've written from word, or online or any other applications and randomly ur post just so happened 2 contain my jargon!! don't worry i'm not singling u out!! its all over my post's online!!

 

[Christ4Ever]

No worries at all!

Let me make myself clearer. It is not my assumption that everyone will sin, it is an actual prophecy of the Bible in Psalm 53, which is quoted in Romans when Paul wrote to the church. A prophecy is a statement of fact predicting the future. God in His foreknowledge already know before mankind came into existence that everyone will in one way or another sin throughout all generations. That is why He inspired the psalm writer to write Psalm 53, saying that not one is righteous. This is a statement of fact based on the truthfulness of the Scriptures, not a mere assumption.

But since you want to discuss about the “what if” scenario we can go ahead to do so, but I must say it will be based more on human reasoning rather than Scriptures.

It is indeed unjust for God to impute sin on mankind if they are in a helpless state of sinfulness from birth. If they are born sinners why then do God still find fault? This is not only against human logic, but against the Scriptures starting from OT. When God delivered Israel from the slavery of Egypt, He clearly set before them two choices: obey Him and receive His blessings or disobey Him and receive His curses. If the Israelites of OT are given such choices to make, (take note that this is during the time when the Spirit of God had not even been poured out on flesh ie. no one is born again) it is clearly the case that no one is born a sinner, which is why they can choose obedience or disobedience to God. The Israelites did have a propensity or rather preference to choose disobedience to God due to the corrupted flesh (disobedience to God is itself act of sinning), which is shown by their actions in the wilderness, but they are able to overcome that propensity since God gave them the choice to not sin (ie. obey His commands).

As for whether one can go to the kingdom of God without having the knowledge of Christ, no, it is not possible since Jesus Himself said no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born again of water and the Spirit. But not knowing Christ is not a sin in itself, provided that they indeed never even heard about Christ and is different from rejecting Christ which was what was mentioned in previous post. How can anyone reject Christ if they never even heard about Him? So, if they never heard about Christ, but they did somehow manage to live a life without sin, they will be accepted by God and given the knowledge of Christ eventually. Paul wrote about those Gentiles who never heard the law of Moses yet these people are a law to themselves because they lived by the law of their consciences. They will be judged based on how they lived not their lack of knowledge of Moses’ law. I believe the same applies to those who never had the chance to hear about Jesus.

But if you mean not knowing Christ as in not believing in Him even after hearing about Him, such a person cannot be without sin. Why? Because if a person truly lived a life of righteousness, that person in his conscience already knows and loves the truth of God to some extent. Were such a person to hear about Christ, his response would naturally be to believe in Him because His doctrine and truth would be in agreement with his righteous way of living. A person who lived righteously would love the truth and thus would gladly receive and believe in Jesus who IS the truth.

A person who would actually reject Jesus is already a person who had sin in his life because as Jesus said, such people love darkness. They do not want their sins to be exposed by Jesus and want to live in sin which is why they reject Him in the first place. I see no other reason why a person will reject Jesus, do you?

Dear Enxu
Well said. Thank-you.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

ohh its from my facebook days!! its just quick writing, facebook jargon, and I also copy and paste stuff dat I've written from word, or online or any other applications and randomly ur post just so happened 2 contain my jargon!! don't worry i'm not singling u out!! its all over my post's online!!

Dear Spiritddove05
Thanks for letting me know. I've had those moments as well
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Acts2:38]

So if it wasn't satan who sinned 1st who was it then? Luke 10:18 I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven!! and the heavens were created on the 2nd day and the earth on the 4th day!! and satan was already kicked out of heaven when he 1st came 2 adam and eve!! not 2 mention john 8:44.

Theres nowhere in scripture that proves satan did first. Of the verses that detail his fall, it was already after the earth was created, and even states "nations" in Isaiah 14. Scripture does say that sin entered into the world by Adam.

Romans 5:12

Isaiah 14:12-14

Can you provide scripture that states otherwise perhaps? I am willing to see.

 

[spiriteddove05]

People I have been banned from replying to my thread (How Do You Know You Have The Correct Navigation To The (True Scripture) for just posting as I've I have since I joined and as I do in any other forum!! but a person here has found an (excuse) just to persecute me like they did jesus and the apostles.

this is wat happens to true Christians when they start making head way and Gods word starts 2 flourish!! then the enemy comes in and tries 2 supress the word!! as usual they cant tell me wat I've done wrong? just like jesus!!
I'm gonna leave my email here just in case I get kicked!! (without a course) for anyone who wud like a chat!!

 

[Enxu]

People I have been banned from replying to my thread (How Do You Know You Have The Correct Navigation To The (True Scripture) for just posting as I've I have since I joined and as I do in any other forum!! but a person here has found an (excuse) just to persecute me like they did jesus and the apostles.

this is wat happens to true Christians when they start making head way and Gods word starts 2 flourish!! then the enemy comes in and tries 2 supress the word!! as usual they cant tell me wat I've done wrong? just like jesus!!
I'm gonna leave my email here just in case I get kicked!! (without a course) for anyone who wud like a chat!!
linswarrior05@yahoo.com

Keep speaking the truth!
I too show the Scriptures to people but they either refuse to acknowledge them in support of man made doctrines or go onto say I’m a potential heretic who has unhealthy interest in controversies! I can certainly sense the fiery arrows coming against me!

 

[Christ4Ever]

People I have been banned from replying to my thread (How Do You Know You Have The Correct Navigation To The (True Scripture) for just posting as I've I have since I joined and as I do in any other forum!! but a person here has found an (excuse) just to persecute me like they did jesus and the apostles.

this is wat happens to true Christians when they start making head way and Gods word starts 2 flourish!! then the enemy comes in and tries 2 supress the word!! as usual they cant tell me wat I've done wrong? just like jesus!!
I'm gonna leave my email here just in case I get kicked!! (without a course) for anyone who wud like a chat!!
linswarrior05@yahoo.com

Keep speaking the truth!
I too show the Scriptures to people but they either refuse to acknowledge them in support of man made doctrines or go onto say I’m a potential heretic who has unhealthy interest in controversies! I can certainly sense the fiery arrows coming against me!

Dear Brother & Sister,
Brother: These are lies that you are telling yourself that you want to believe are true. You know full well that you were banned from the thread you created because you refused to abide by my directions that I gave to you as a Moderator. Anyone who reads the postings between us, can see this. Which by the way had nothing to do with the subject matter. Please, don't do the above posting here again.

Sister: Do not feed into something you know nothing about or add your own distortions. You are letting your own frustrations in other postings, to find comradery in a self-made persecution that does not exist. In your case and the Brother's above, the sole issue is the inability to combine civil discourse with espousing the theology you believe in.

Continuing of this discussion can be done through a Private Message to me or any other Staff Member.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
<><

 

[spiriteddove05]

Keep speaking the truth!
I too show the Scriptures to people but they either refuse to acknowledge them in support of man made doctrines or go onto say I’m a potential heretic who has unhealthy interest in controversies! I can certainly sense the fiery arrows coming against me!

when God is for us who can be against us romans 8:31

 

[spiriteddove05]

God will decide which one of us is lying, and boy will it be bad 4 that person on judgment day if they don't repent!!

 

[Acts2:38]

People I have been banned from replying to my thread (How Do You Know You Have The Correct Navigation To The (True Scripture) for just posting as I've I have since I joined and as I do in any other forum!! but a person here has found an (excuse) just to persecute me like they did jesus and the apostles.

this is wat happens to true Christians when they start making head way and Gods word starts 2 flourish!! then the enemy comes in and tries 2 supress the word!! as usual they cant tell me wat I've done wrong? just like jesus!!
I'm gonna leave my email here just in case I get kicked!! (without a course) for anyone who wud like a chat!!
linswarrior05@yahoo.com

God will decide which one of us is lying, and boy will it be bad 4 that person on judgment day if they don't repent!!

You also made another thread about "love"(Jesus Also Talked About (LOVE) Remember Which Is Very Much Lacking In The World!!) and treating people with respect..... right after you flamed me for speaking the gospel truth.

(see your Proof That Christians Have Demons!! Actual (Deliverance Ministry Footage)!! thread)

Your the "pot calling the kettle black". You cry persecution yet persecute me when I correct you.

 

[Sue D.]

(she doesn't like being corrected)

 

[Dave L]

Many people in churches today especially the cultic denominations like the catholic church and the watch tower group think that people are born sinners and not only that but even think they have a sinful nature that they can nether eradicate and that all they can do is just (strive) along and hope for the best and if they sin weather wilfully or unwilfully they can just ask God for forgiveness each time and it will be ok. This is wats been taught in most churches 2day people.


Catholics think that babies are born sinners!! Its why they sprinkle babies with water, if that’s the case den why does jesus say in matthew 18:3 you must become like a little child to enter into heaven, in other words babies are innocent.


How can a baby be a sinner? They barely have the capacity to even think let alone even move and yet their supposed have the understanding of wat sin is. Sin is not innate, its not done on impulse, sin is a choice acted out upon our free will which requires an understanding to begin with.


Sin is a premeditated thing which also has to be thought out, its deciding to or not 2 do something iver way the person doing it has an understanding of wat their doing. Yes we have inherited the carnal nature and incorruptible flesh from our ancestors but that’s not a licence. Sin is a choice, we can always choose to or not to regardless of our canal nature!!


Jesus said to the adulterer (Go and sin no more) john 8:5-11 was he commanding the impossible? Not according 2 deu 30:11 my commandments are not far from you. Not according 2 1 corith 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not (common to man). God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability.


Phil 4:13 I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Our obligations nether exceed our abilities if so then It would be unfair for God to command something that could nether be achieve.

James says we cannot stop sinning with the tongue, how can we stop sinning in all we do? Whatever is not of faith is sin.

 

[Samson2020]

I've been following this with great interest my Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus.

It has been an interesting subject to say the least. It goes to the heart of a question I pose to you all.
Remembering that Adam was created perfectly without the proclivity to sin until he did sin. And by doing so he then passed the proclivity to sin, to every succeeding generation of man and what I believe is what we call the Sin Nature.

If that being so, my question: Is it our actual first committed sin or the sin nature inherited from Adam which separates us from God?

An additional thought with the above question is: Does perfection mean that man cannot even have the proclivity to sin and is the reason why when we are Born Again, it is that which we no longer have which in Christ Jesus allows us to not sin?

I also ask consideration of each other in ones responses. We bring to the table of any discussion, preconceived beliefs based upon the teachings we have received, life experiences, as well as the correct understanding by the Holy Spirit in dividing Scripture correctly.

As Brother Paul so mentioned. At times it is eisegesis instead of exegesis that has us fall into misunderstandings of Scriptural Doctrines which are not soundly based. Still, even with erroneous understanding or failure to communicate our words properly (not including the Holy Spirit guidance), we should still be considerate of who our audience is in Christ Jesus and correct gently. No matter how abrasive/obstinate the person may be to us.

With the of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Romans 5:18 "Therefore as through one mans (Adam) offense judgment came TO ALL MEN, resulting in condemnation, even so through one mans (Jesus) righteous
act the free gift came to ALL MEN resulting in justification of life."

Romans 11:32 " For God hath concluded them ALL IN UNBELIEF, THAT HE MIGHT HAVE MERCY ON ALL.

In Romans 5:18 we see that God judged ALL MEN to condemnation because of what Adam did before anybody was even conceived. Gods decree, end of story.
ALL mankind from that moment on were born under the curse. This was on purpose for without the cursed Adamic nature there would be no need for Jesus and
it was/is Gods intention to reconcile all things through Jesus. So condemnation was a necessary thing or it wouldn't have happened.

In Roman 11:32 we see the same type of statement that God hath concluded them ALL in UNBELIEF. This does not require anything on our part as we are just
concluded to be unbelievers because God said so.

Addressing original sin. This should suffice but whatever sin was committed by Satan is irrelevant because he is/was never a man therefore men were not guilty
because of what he did.

 

[Trevor]

One of the common verses that many people take to mean not "all" babies will go to heaven is...

1 Cor 7:14; For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

The thought is.. if at least one parent is saved... the children are "clean". But if neither parent is saved... then they are "unclean".
But even if this is true... it only works until the age of accountability, then you are responsible for your own salvation.

I know the phrase "original sin" is popular in RC churches, but I personally feel the "original" sin, happened before Eve ate the fruit.

Ezek 28:15; "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Ezek 28:16; "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.

Isa 14:12; "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
Isa 14:13; "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
Isa 14:14; 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'

I believe this sin happened before Adam and Eve ever sinned.

What is sin? Sin is disobedience of the law, Who's law? God's law. God said thou shalt not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, had he not said that, it would not have been a sin to eat from it, but he did. Why did God create a law and then allow Satan, 'the father of lies' to tempt Eve to break it? Eve, who had, don't forget, never heard a lie, she only knew the truth. She had only conversed with Adam and possibly God, neither of which told lies. So when Satan lied to her, she had no choice but believe him, she was nieve. It was the first lie. It had to be God's intention for Adam to fall, that's why he didn't desert Adam when he turned him out of the garden. He didn't desert them he made them clothes, and when their son Cain committed murder, he protected Cain by putting a mark on him and warning people to leave him alone because, don't forget, this was the first murder, there was no law to say thou shalt not murder, everything was new. I believe that God caused Adam to sin, to, one might say, move him into another dimension where he had to find himself and experience an alternative to God, and in doing this, he was in effect doing it for mankind, who was to follow on after him.

 

[Samson2020]

What is sin? Sin is disobedience of the law, Who's law? God's law. God said thou shalt not eat the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, had he not said that, it would not have been a sin to eat from it, but he did. Why did God create a law and then allow Satan, 'the father of lies' to tempt Eve to break it? Eve, who had, don't forget, never heard a lie, she only knew the truth. She had only conversed with Adam and possibly God, neither of which told lies. So when Satan lied to her, she had no choice but believe him, she was nieve. It was the first lie. It had to be God's intention for Adam to fall, that's why he didn't desert Adam when he turned him out of the garden. He didn't desert them he made them clothes, and when their son Cain committed murder, he protected Cain by putting a mark on him and warning people to leave him alone because, don't forget, this was the first murder, there was no law to say thou shalt not murder, everything was new. I believe that God caused Adam to sin, to, one might say, move him into another dimension where he had to find himself and experience an alternative to God, and in doing this, he was in effect doing it for mankind, who was to follow on after him.

Good start, the fall was required for all of us as this is the way we come to know both good and evil. God knows the difference and as his children we must
experience both. Overcome evil with love and forgiveness. Strange part is both good and evil grew on the same tree, and that tree was not the tree of life,
eventually our concept of good must also be sacrificed for the will of the Father as well. In order to move over to the tree of life.
Satans temptation was true with the exception of thou shalt not surely die. He added in the part about knowing good and evil and being like God and God confirmed
that part, which is why the fall was necessary. It's a slippery slope but well worth the risk to understand why it happened.

 

[Trevor]

Good start, the fall was required for all of us as this is the way we come to know both good and evil. God knows the difference and as his children we must
experience both. Overcome evil with love and forgiveness. Strange part is both good and evil grew on the same tree, and that tree was not the tree of life,
eventually our concept of good must also be sacrificed for the will of the Father as well. In order to move over to the tree of life.
Satans temptation was true with the exception of thou shalt not surely die. He added in the part about knowing good and evil and being like God and God confirmed
that part, which is why the fall was necessary. It's a slippery slope but well worth the risk to understand why it happened.

Hi Samson, It's all for the growth of man, from Adam to Abraham, through whom he introduced the world to himself through the scriptures of his people and their chosen status. And through them to our Lord Jesus who introduces God through himself, to the world and points the way back to the Garden where we return fully grown and complete. I know that is a simplification, but I believe it is the final outcome for the elect.

 

[Samson2020]

Hi Samson, It's all for the growth of man, from Adam to Abraham, through whom he introduced the world to himself through the scriptures of his people and their chosen status. And through them to our Lord Jesus who introduces God through himself, to the world and points the way back to the Garden where we return fully grown and complete. I know that is a simplification, but I believe it is the final outcome for the elect.

The good news is all who participated in the condemnation are eventually the elect. That will be a hard one to let sink in but your this far so maybe you will begin
to see that God concluded ALL in unbelief that he might have mercy on ALL. Thats the very good news. What I like to call freedom, as Jesus said if you continue
in my word then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.