Seventh Day Adventism

[Boanerges]

Ah, beg to differ with you, Boanerges,

I don't know if you're talking something specific to this thread, but there are differences in doctrines that can lead one to believe they are saved, who actually will not be saved.

Mathew 7:21-23

²¹"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

<sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-23339">22</sup>"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' <sup class="versenum" id="en-NASB-23340">23</sup>"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

The people Jesus' is describing are obviously a little shocked that they are not being given the reward they thought they were going to receive.

dchena

Perhaps you missed my point. As i had stated earlier I have personally known Seventh Day Adventist that were born again believers.
The people who Christ rejected were not thrown out for a mistake in their doctrine least we all be in terrible peril.
"Lord didn't we"?
Jesus rejected those that never met Him but did religious works in their own strengths and abilities. Sadly they never knew Him and that was the basis of their rejection.
I am sure their are many wiser than I to judge who is able to be saved but for now I will stick with Jesus requirements; faith in Him.

 

[Dave4Christ]

Well said Boanerges...

...to know where the line is drawn between one who is saved vs. one who is not is to see deep into the hearts of man; an impossible task for man.

God knows the heart of every man.

Faith in God (who knows the hearts of man more than man could ever know) is most important in this case.

Trust in God's love in sending His Son to save us is crucial.

God has laid a path for each follower of The Way to walk. Faith is needed to walk that path (whereever it may lead us.)

 

[Fragrant Grace]

Just bringing up this thread for information in view of the fact that Ben Carson, going for presidency is a Seventh Day Adventist

This thread brings up the basics of Adventism and its heretic teachings


For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
1 Corinthians 13:11-15

 

[amadeus2]

I guess I have to stand with Boanerges on this in that no man but God alone can see what is in a man's heart. Who among us has every doctrine right? Who among us can say definitely that he espouses no errors at all? Let the one who presently without sin cast then the first stone.

All of us stand condemned until we have gained the Life which Jesus held out to us and have endured with Him to the end.

 

[Dee1]

You know, this study doesn't seem to deep yet, like they Call Jesus Michael... I call Jesus the Lilly of the Valley, am I of a cult, I mean do they believe that Jesus was just an angel and not God. That would be weird. Jesus was a man, but He was also God. When Lucifer rebelled in heaven, do you think he had a chance to win that war. The bible says, Rev_12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Let me ask you a question, why does Michael have his angels, why are they his? What if adventist got it wrong about the Michael deal, grant you, but they were dong what Jesus said about, "if you love me keep my commandments". Now we all know they keep the 10 commandments including the 4th commandment. The Southern Baptist Church which I grew up in says we keep the law in the spirit, but to literally keep the 10 commandment law is old covenant. But I read in the last book of the bible whom John the beloved wrote: Rev_22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. " Can we enter into the gates if we knowingly violate the commandments?

 

[amadeus2]

What are the commandments that Jesus clearly supported?
How about the two greatest ones which include all of the other necessary ones: To love God with our all and to love our neighbor as ourselves? If we get that Spirit in us that Jesus had/has and keep it, not quenching it, how can we ever go against God?

 

[Dee1]

What are the commandments that Jesus clearly supported?
How about the two greatest ones which include all of the other necessary ones: To love God with our all and to love our neighbor as ourselves? If we get that Spirit in us that Jesus had/has and keep it, not quenching it, how can we ever go against God?

Well, that's really what Israel of old was doing, they misrepresented God by legalism, and added to God's law with a bunch of man made requirements, they put the word of the Rabbi, above the words of Jehovah, today we're dangerously involved in liberalism, by taking away from God's word and following those who think they can spiritualize away the plainest statements of the bible. The bible warns, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book, And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev. 22:18-19 : Either of the two adding or taking away results in loss of eternal life.

Jesus said, If a man love me, and now here's the hard part, it is up to us to admit we need to love God much more, than our current state of spiritual growth and ask for grace (the impartation of His on Life) to love Him enough to follow Him all the way, and admit we can't manufacture that type of love own our own. The only other thing we can do is fall into self deception and think that we need not grow any more in love towards God and our fellow man to fulfill the greatest commandment which you have mentioned.

Back to it, "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me" What if we found out the words we were keeping originated with paganism, or even the Father of Lies... then what? Would Jesus want us to remain there or follow him, he always went around saying to the people he loved two simple words, follow me... but it's hard to do sometimes, he also has a group of people today who do follow him all the way... "these are they that follow the lamb withersoever he goeth"... Rev. 14:4

You already know that living up to the greatest commandment is Glorifying God, and glorifying God is allowing Jesus to save us from sin... not in sin... The disciples believed, Christ believed that the term salvation was saving from sin...isn't that what the angel told Joseph, "thou shalt call his name Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins." Because you are one of God's people, whom Jesus loves he has covenanted by a blood oath, to save you from selfish sin, and recreate your heart into unselfish love. Unselfish love is following Jesus no matter what Israel of old, or the church of today chooses to do, and it is the only thing in this world that brings true happiness. To follow Christ alone is joy, and peace. To follow the crowd is tress that can't be released... Jesus releases, Jesus frees from bondage, our Jesus saves!
Love you brother Amadeus,
Dee

 

[DHC]

Hello Dee.

I hope you do not mind if I ask you a question or two.

I noticed in your posts Dee, your reference to the 'ten commandments' as being the commandments
that are mentioned in the verse below.

John 14:15
If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

How do you know that Jesus was referring to the 'ten commandments' of Exodus, when Jesus gave
that instruction?

 

[Dee1]

Thank you for writing DHC, I would like to ask you a question, you'll find it at the end... John, who was full of love for God and man wrote,
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Now we know that it is the purpose of Christ to destroy the works of the devil.

The works of the Devil are sin, and the verse said that "Christ was manifested to take away our sin"
We know from verse 4 that sin is the transgression of the law... What law? the next few verses reveal the context of the law John spoke of,
1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
1Jn 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
Murder, a violation of the 6th commandment, and hate a violation of the 6th commandment

The Revelation of Jesus Christ tells you who's without the Holy City and is forever lost:
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
whoremongers breaking the 7th commandment, murders 6th, idolaters 2nd, lies 9th

Why dear friend would I limit a law which is nothing but the revelation of God's on character, "the mind of Christ", the expression of His very nature to exodus, when if those principles aren't written on our moral fabric then we are not converted. When Lucifer rebelled against God's goverment in Heaven the 10 commandments might not have been there in stone, but the very principles of the foundation of that government were there, embodied in the life, words, and actions of Jesus.

The new birth takes care of "the will to do God's will" no matter how crucifiying it is to the flesh, when we are born again we no longer live by trying, and failing, and trying again... we live by the power of the resurrected life, but so many people want to live that resurrected life with dying Christ death. They think that since Christ died they don't have too. "He that hath the Son hath life", I joy to think that we can please God...
My question is, is it easier to live the Christian life before or after we are dead to the world? How do you know if you've died and have been born again? How do the angels know if we are safe to bring to Heaven and that we wouldn't cause a new rebellion when we get there if there is no standard on earth for that evaluation?

 

[DHC]

Hello Dee.

Thank you for the reply to my question concerning identifying the commandments that Jesus gave to the apostles. There always seems to be
some controversy over which commandments are being referred to.

Your reply appears to indicate that you are employing a form of interpretation that is not at all sound. I will now illustrate the error in your
interpretation of the verses you referred to in your post, Dee. You stated the following in your reply.

Murder, a violation of the 6th commandment, and hate a violation of the 6th commandment

I will now print the sixth commandment from Exodus so you can read it.

Exodus 20:13
You shall not murder

You will of course notice that the word hate is not mentioned in this commandment. Hate is not a violation of the
sixth commandment, never was and never will be.

The next error in your reply was as follows.

whoremongers breaking the 7th commandment

A quick check of the dictionary will provide the meaning for the word 'whoremongers'. The word 'whoremongers' means, one
who consorts with a prostitute. You referred to the seventh commandment from Exodus which reads as follows.

Exodus 20:14
You shall not commit adultery

The written commandment against adultery in Exodus does not mean consorting with a prostitute. These two sins, adultery and consorting
with a prostitute, fall under another commandment all together. A commandment from the Holy Spirit against sexual immorality.

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality

Shall we move on Dee, you quoted.

Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers

No doubt by now Dee that you realize that 'sorcery' is not listed in the ten commandments. At last we can put to rest the
idea that the commandments mentioned in the New Testament, by the apostles, are the ten commandments. Should you attempt to
interpret sorcery as one of the ten commandments then I would be very concerned Dee.

 

[Dee1]

Jesus intended the law to be kept, by His power, for it is impossible for man to keep the law in his own strength, man is nothing.

And the power is imparted via the Holy Spirit, which doesn't seek to keep an outward letter in form, but fulfills all righteousness by the Spirit. "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

Living in the carnal mind one cannot understand and be lead by the Spirit. "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." , it will not submit to God's law but will always seek the modus of evasion.

Yea, and "whosoever hateth his brother is a murder" 1 Jn 3:15, the Spirit of God says hate violates the 6th commandment.

The new testament is founded on the law, the prophets, and the gospel.

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Heart thoughts... Jesus said can even be adultery.

The Law is the standard whereby it will be determined at the Judgement who shall receive eternal life & who shall be found unworthy to enter into life eternal.

I ask you a question, what Law is it that Paul warned of speaking evil of, "Jas_4:11 Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge."

I asked you a question earlier... and I have answered yours...
God bless you brother

 

[DHC]

Hello Dee.

You asked the following question.

is it easier to live the Christian life before or after we are dead to the world?

Not sure if I understand what you mean by this question Dee. We need to put Christ first every day.
We also put to death as much as possible our own self interest and sin. This process we implement
is a day by day exercise, not sure if we arrive at some point and find that we are dead to the world?

 

[DHC]

Hello Dee.

Your second question I also did not understand, it appears confused.

I ask you a question, what Law is it that Paul warned of speaking evil of, "Jas_4:11 Speak not evil one of another,
brethren.

In your last post #31, you made a number of claims, these claims you made need to support Dee using the scripture.

You first claim was as follows.

Jesus intended the law to be kept, by His power, for it is impossible for man to keep the law in his own strength,
man is nothing.

When I read the New Testament Dee, it is clear that the goal of the Christian life is love from a pure heart, as the verse
below illustrates.

1 Timothy 1:5
But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a
sincere faith.

You may be confused about the distinction between God's dealings with the Jewish and the Gentile nations. The
scripture can at times give the impression that Gentiles are under the law. But if you carefully read the New Testament
both the Jews and the Gentiles as a whole, are under an entirely New Covenant.

 

[Dee1]

Dear brother DHC,

You need to understand that confusion is taking away the force of God Law which is the only school master to lead us to Christ who alone can give man victory over sin.

Every time one negates the force of the law he works in opposition to the gospel, which provides the only remedy for sin.

The law doesn't need changing, man's heart does, and he needs the law to point out his sin.

Forgiveness as a judical act frees us form the condemnation of the law.

Forgiveness as a reclaiming act frees us from the practice of sin.

There is no true conversion without the giving up of sin.

Satan's most successful deceptions is to lead people to claim to be saved while at the same time they are living in disobedience to God's commandments.

If we continue and fall back into sin, and disobey God, then we are telling God that we love that sin and don't want Him to give us the victory that Jesus offered to those he had forgiven,
"neither do I condemn thee go and sin no more".

We cannot glorify God by cheapening God's grace, saying it is weak, too weak to give us power to go and sin no more, when God says "my grace is sufficient (2 Cor 12:9)

That doing away with the law, is confusion, and as old as the Eden lie told Eve "ye shall not surely die" when you break God's law. God is not the author of confusion, all those that seek to lessen God's requirements are creating the confusion, and working in harmony with Satan who wants to remove the moral law of God's principles so man can sin without being convicted of violation of God's will, and thereby be destroyed.

 

[amadeus2]

amadeus2 said: ↑
What are the commandments that Jesus clearly supported?
How about the two greatest ones which include all of the other necessary ones: To love God with our all and to love our neighbor as ourselves? If we get that Spirit in us that Jesus had/has and keep it, not quenching it, how can we ever go against God?

Dee1:
Well, that's really what Israel of old was doing, they misrepresented God by legalism, and added to God's law with a bunch of man made requirements, they put the word of the Rabbi, above the words of Jehovah, today we're dangerously involved in liberalism, by taking away from God's word and following those who think they can spiritualize away the plainest statements of the bible. The bible warns, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book, And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. Rev. 22:18-19 : Either of the two adding or taking away results in loss of eternal life.

Lots of misrepresentation occurring today either out of ignorance or on purpose. When it is in ignorance, are we not usually given the opportunity to come out of our ignorance before final judgment is rendered?

People looking to Jesus will still sometimes look down at the wrong moment as Peter did when began to walk on water. Peter wasn't lost for when he recognized his situation he asked for help and received it. When the help no longer be forthcoming for any of us?

Dee1:
Jesus said, If a man love me, and now here's the hard part, it is up to us to admit we need to love God much more, than our current state of spiritual growth and ask for grace (the impartation of His on Life) to love Him enough to follow Him all the way, and admit we can't manufacture that type of love own our own. The only other thing we can do is fall into self deception and think that we need not grow any more in love towards God and our fellow man to fulfill the greatest commandment which you have mentioned.

The spiritual growth you mentioned is a key. While we have time [how long is that?] we must continue to grow in Jesus toward God. How much do we love God now? Have we increased in Him since yesterday? The end of growth is not here until our end of time is here, is it? Like water that lies dormant [e.g. the Dead Sea] we must keep moving or stagnate and die. Impossible? For man without God, absolutely!

Dee1:
Back to it, "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Joh 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me" What if we found out the words we were keeping originated with paganism, or even the Father of Lies... then what? Would Jesus want us to remain there or follow him, he always went around saying to the people he loved two simple words, follow me... but it's hard to do sometimes, he also has a group of people today who do follow him all the way... "these are they that follow the lamb withersoever he goeth"... Rev. 14:4

Yes, God always knows whether or not we are working in ignorance but we do not. As we are growing toward Him [if we are] we will be shown new and better ways and the means is available to go those new ways rather than continuing with our "old man". Hard, of course, and more than that, impossible, but if God is on our side, who can be against us? Who can stand against us?

"Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." Matt 11:28-30

Dee1:
You already know that living up to the greatest commandment is Glorifying God, and glorifying God is allowing Jesus to save us from sin... not in sin... The disciples believed, Christ believed that the term salvation was saving from sin...isn't that what the angel told Joseph, "thou shalt call his name Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins." Because you are one of God's people, whom Jesus loves he has covenanted by a blood oath, to save you from selfish sin, and recreate your heart into unselfish love. Unselfish love is following Jesus no matter what Israel of old, or the church of today chooses to do, and it is the only thing in this world that brings true happiness. To follow Christ alone is joy, and peace. To follow the crowd is tress that can't be released... Jesus releases, Jesus frees from bondage, our Jesus saves!
Love you brother Amadeus,
Dee

The problem for us who have not yet fully overcome as Jesus overcame is we look down or back too often and then fail to call the right one for help immediately.

 

[DHC]

Satan's most successful deceptions is to lead people to claim to be saved while at the same time they are living in
disobedience to God's commandments.

Hello Dee.

Thanks for your reply to my two posts Dee.

You are claiming that the Gentiles are under the law of Moses, this is the primary flaw in the method of interpretation that you
have been taught. I will now demonstrate why this legalistic method of interpretation is unsound. Please understand Dee, that
this is not a personal attack on you, it is the method of interpretation that you are using, that is the problem.

Please read the following passage from Paul's letter to the Gentile church in Galatia.

Galatians 5
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities,
strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these

You should notice first of all Dee, that Paul's list of sins is extensive, a list of sins that even exceeds the boundaries of
the ten commandments. There are numerous sins that Paul mentions in the list above, that fall even outside of the scope
of the entire law of Moses.

Let's examine just one example of a sin, that has no legal defintion in the law of Moses.

Nowhere in the entire legal code of Israel, is drunkenness ever defined as a sin. Under the law of Moses you are free to drink
to your hearts content, bartender pass me another round or two.

1 John 3:4
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

According to John's definition, 'sin is lawlessness', so logically Dee, any action or behavior that is not defined within the law
as sin, cannot ever really be referred to as sin. So drunkenness should never be a breach of the law, thus drunkenness
cannot be called a sin by legal definition.

We have now created a legal paradox, Paul's calls drunkenness a sin, but using John's legal definition of sin, drunkenness
is not defined as sin. It is a sin, but it is not a sin, the paradox. So is getting legless on a bottle of rum, a sin or not, and what
legal definition will you cite to support your claim or opinion.

 

[Dee1]

The problem for us who have not yet fully overcome as Jesus overcame is we look down or back too often and then fail to call the right one for help immediately.

You hit that on the head, it's not easy in this day and age to live the exemplary life. Which is why failure leads to success, when we give up own ourselves, then we learn to trust in the merits of Christ and rely upon Him fully. Man needs a firm reliance upon Jesus Christ, and admit he can not overcome in his own strength.
blessings to you...

 

[amadeus2]

You hit that on the head, it's not easy in this day and age to live the exemplary life. Which is why failure leads to success, when we give up own ourselves, then we learn to trust in the merits of Christ and rely upon Him fully. Man needs a firm reliance upon Jesus Christ, and admit he can not overcome in his own strength.
blessings to you...

Yes, we need to keep going back to the bottom and starting again. Let God lift us up rather than lifting ourselves up to where we believe we were yesterday or a while ago. Because we climbed a particular mountain doesn't mean we will never have to climb it again. Remember Moses had to go back up the mountain to once more get the law of God engraved in stone. He had to fast again for 40 days? Why was that?