Sign gifts of apostles ended

[Brother Paul]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions however the evidence is there. Would you consider the facts if I show you? Yes or no! You choose.

 

[lentz]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions however the evidence is there. Would you consider the facts if I show you? Yes or no! You choose.

Yes. Please

 

[lentz]

Jesus told the apostles these signs would follow them.
Today we have doctrine 2 Tim. 3:16,17

 

[Twistie]

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


















































41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.







Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to



a son, and will call him Immanuel.



















































































































































































































But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.

The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

Twistie

 

[Brother Paul]

Jesus told the apostles these signs would follow them.
Today we have doctrine 2 Tim. 3:16,17

Yes, "His people" not just the Apostles. Also Mark says these are the signs that shall follow those who believe, not just the Apostles.

 

[lentz]

Yes, "His people" not just the Apostles. Also Mark says these are the signs that shall follow those who believe, not just the Apostles.

But brother,when since the apostles has someone been raised by the dead? If the sign gifts didnt die out,why are tongues and healing the only 2 utilized? Could it be because raising the dead cant be faked?. Not starting an argument,just looking at facts.

 

[Brother Paul]

Yes. Please

Okay, so to start consider that Paul in Romans 11:29 tells us "the GIFTS and calling of God are without repentance" which means God does not change His mind regarding them. Then consider that the Scripture tells us the Spirit administers severally as He wills (not just to the Apostles) plus the gifts are not like fruit once they are cultivated and grown (which must be seeded for via sowing to the Spirit), They are not something we get to keep permanently (if God uses us to heal someone does not equal we are a Faith Healer). Notice though that it does not say they will cease.

Clement, third Bishop of Rome, disciple of Peter, and co-worker and disciple of Paul, in his 1rst letter to the Corinthians testifies…”a full outpouring of the Holy Spirit was upon you all.“


Ignatius, disciple of John, and second Bishop of Antioch after St. Peter (arouns 110 AD), says in his letter to the Smyrneans, that they also had obtained, “every kind of gift“ and filled with faith and love, were “deficient in no gift…!” St. Polycarp replied…”be wanting in nothing and, …abounding in every gift.“


Justin Martyr (165 A.D.), in his Dialogue with Trypho, (A.N.F. I, pg.s 240-243), writes of his time, “For the prophetic gifts remain with us, even to this present time…it is possible to see among us women, and men, who possess the gifts of the Spirit of God.“

Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (160-180 A.D.), student of Polycarp the disciple of John the Apostle, in Against Heresies (see 2:31-32; 4:9; 5:6) states, “Those who are in truth His disciples, receiving Grace from Him, do in His name perform…it is not possible the number of gifts which the Church…has received from God, in the name of Christ…we do also hear many brethren in the Church who possess prophetic gifts, and who speak in all kinds of tongues…!”

Tertullian, from Against Marcion (A.N.F. III, pg.s 446-447) says “Let Marcion then exhibit, as gifts from his god, some prophets, such as have not spoken by human sense, but filled with the Spirit of God…Let him produce a psalm, a vision, a prayer only…by the Spirit in an ecstacy, that is a rapture, whenever an interpretation of tongues has occurred to him…now all these things are forthcoming from my side without difficulty.“

Origen (240 A.D.), said by some to be the father of Theology, in Against Celsus (1:67; 2:8; 7:3-11), as well as in his Commentary on John, alludes to all the gifts being present in his day as well.

Archelaus (280 A.D.) in Acts of Manes (ECF 6.179) says the gifts are all present even prophecy and tongues.

Let us also note some further examples found in Eusibius’s “Ecclesiastical History“ written in the early fourth century:

Papias tells us of a report he received from the daughters of Phillip (who themselves are mentioned to have prophetic gifts) that they had witnessed a resuscitation of the dead, and of “one named Justus who drank poison unaware and yet, by the grace of God was none the worse.“

Narcissus, Bishop of Jerusalem, said…”Once during the all night Vigil of Easter, the deacons ran out of oil. The whole congregation…distressed,“ So Narcissus told those responsible for the lights, to go and draw vats of water and bring them to him…and saying a prayer over the water, had them pour it into the Menorahs with absolute faith in the Lord to provide. The deacons obeyed the old saint, “and in defiance of natural laws, by the power of God, the substance of the water was physically changed to oil.“

Again Irenaeus, in Refutations and Overthrow of Knowledge Falsely so-called, a work opposing Gnostic Heretics said, “So it is, in His name, those who are truly His disciples, having received grace from Him, put it to effectual use for the benefit of their fellow men, in proportion to the gift each one has received from Him. Some drive out demons really and truly so that often those cleansed from evil spirits believe and become members of the Church, some having foreknowledge of the future, visions, and prophetic utterance, others by laying on of hands heal the sick, and restore them to health, and before now as I said, dead men have actually been raised, and remain with us many years…Similarly we hear of many members…who have prophetic gifts, and by the Spirit speak in all kinds of tongues, and bring men’s secret thoughts to light for their own good and expound the mysteries of God.“

Novatian, 130 years after the finish of John’s revelation on Patmos, in a work entitled, Treatise Concerning the Trinity, said, “This is He who places prophetic gifts in the Church, directs tongues, gives powers and healings, does wonderful works, offers discrimination of spirits, affords powers of governments, suggests councils and order and arranges whatever other gifts there are of charismata; and there the Lord’s Church everywhere and in all perfected and completed.“

Eusibius wrote well after the various Christian centers of North Africa, Jerusalem, Antioch, Ephesus, Rome, etc., had already established what books were accepted books, and which were not. If he were amiss there would have been some comment by Jerome or Augustine or one of the other illustrious early fathers.

Now the Critics like to persuade the unaware and undiscipled, that by the time of John Chrysostym, that the gifts had disappeared, and that Chrysostym himself bears witness to this in the early 400’s, but they are not telling the truth, and the original perpetrators of this mythos knew they were misrepresenting him. What he actually said was that they had “almost entirely disappeared“, which clearly indicates their still present reality in the early 5th century one hundred years after the alleged close of the canon most cite which was around 397 A.D.! And of course we have the already noted clarification of opinion by Augustine in his Reflections.

Then from 601 A.D. in a letter from Gregory the Great to Augustine of Cantebury, who had reported gifts and healings being poured out among the crowds receiving the Gospel and even in some in the churches there in England, Pope Gregory warns him as Jesus did to the 70 upon their return, not to lose focus, that the important thing was that their names were being written in Heaven. This letter is found in Bede’s, Ecclesiastical History, from around 730 A.D., literally centuries after the close of the canon! And finally we know that Francis of Assisi reported such outpourings around 1200 A.D.!

Now it is true as Chrysostom and Augustine indicate that a serious diminishing of the power and expediency of the gifts took place after the church began assuming political power in the empire. We do not doubt that. Neither would I contend as some modern faith preachers that all the gifts should be operating fully as in the Apostles or that they indeed are. First of all, as previously indicated, there was the full endowment of all the gifts in the Apostles, and in the scriptures themselves it changes to their being "administered severally as He wills" upon the Spirit filled. But after Constantine, there was a consistent attempt to gain political control for Christ, or at least for the church, which subsequently waged its war against flesh and blood as history demonstrates, and led eventually to the type of Hierarchical tyranny and militancy that peaked first in the attack of Rome against the Orthodox in Constantinople around 1094 A.D., and then there were the crusades which other than the first had no real legitimacy, then again the political and ecclesiastical power mongers rose up during the Inquisition Period. The Roman hierarchy, became the self-proclaimed sole source and dispenser of (by a political forcefulness of assumed authority if necessary), the truth of God and the Spirit of God, and many individuals with genuine faith in the word or Jesus above the institution, who claimed intimate relationships with God, or exhibited gifts were often tortured and killed by their Bishops and Priests! Foxes, Book of Martyrs, is full of people of sincere faith who were persecuted by this allegedly Christian, yet politically tyrannical, hierarchical regime, allegedly acting in the name of Christ. Why would we expect the Holy Spirit to be demonstrating His will in these male-believers? Many were devils!

Since then the gifts of the Spirit have continued to manifest less occasionally but nonetheless, in spite of their attempt to kill the work of the Holy Spirit in the people of God, they still surfaced every now and again. The political church had all the form, ritual, ceremony, incantations, wealth, military might, and power of persuasion, etc., but denied the real spiritual power thereof, which is the true dynamos and exousia from God. They likewise forbade the eating of meats, taught celibacy as the preferred norm, and eventually elevated the blessed Mary almost to the place of goddess worship, and more. This church furthermore made great effort to discredit, and destroy all evidences of such things now and again over time and destroyed many great libraries that contained many important documents and histories. Of course the gifts were not flowing there.

later Gustov Von Below (adter the turn of the 19th century) makes reference to the many who suddenly began speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance among meetings when this phenomena wasn’t even expected or encouraged.

In the original “Westminster Confession“, the writer recommends that in church, prayer should be made in a known tongue, indirectly referring to the existence of the gift of tongues in which one may speak, as the Apostle defines it, that "no man understands" (where the man utters mysteries unto God not extra biblical revelations to man)! Please be aware the word "unknown" in the KJV, though not literally in the text, is taken here by the translators to be obviously implied by the qualifying phrase regarding "no man" (how many is none?), for if it were referring to a tongue as in an earthly but foreign language, it is possible that some man could have understood it, so therefore, to hold such a position is erroneous, illogical, and grammatically unsupported! Of these tongues no man understands them (not even the speaker). If and when an interpreter arises even they do not know what they will utter as the interpretation for they themselves cannot know this unknown tongue. Then again the plain language of 1 Corinthians 14:5a would likewise make no sense if these were merely human languages, because indeed they already spoke in various human languages.

John Wesley’s famous note to Dr. Conyers Middleton, gives a four point presentation on why these types of outpourings of the Holy Spirit occur less frequently (See The Works of John Wesley, Third edition, Grand Rapids, Baker House, 1978). Wesley professed his belief that any congregation seeking with all their heart to restore and return to true Apostolic doctrine and worship, has these outpourings to some degree more or less.

Likewise, in the historic revivals of the Great Awakening, and even later in some of Dwight Moody’s revivals, we hear of people not even looking for such things, being caught up in the ecstasy of the Spirit, and exhibiting such phenomena.

Now do you really think that this continuous chain of witness since Christ Himself, was some kind of huge century spanning hoax, that employed the willful deception of millions from all ages, both genders, various walks of life, on 5 different continents, and all this somehow by a Ba’alzebub conspiracy? Were all these people, exhibiting the fruit of delusion, and just liars, fakes, and charlatans? This author thinks not. I believe it is against the practice of Christianity to make such an accusation.
​

If they are of God and we say they are of the devil are we in a good place? Careful now, some here are bordering on blaspheming the Holy Spirit! Instead all we have is a history of continuous testimony, and in some senses a boasting of the gifts as one of the proofs in the early church that our relationship with God is real. But yet, do all exhibit gifts? Do all Prophecy? Do all speak in tongues? The answer to all these rhetorical questions is an obvious “No“! Why? Well as the Apostle makes clear under the unction of the Spirit, He "administers them severally as He wills"!

 

[Brother Paul]

But brother,when since the apostles has someone been raised by the dead? If the sign gifts didnt die out,why are tongues and healing the only 2 utilized? Could it be because raising the dead cant be faked?. Not starting an argument,just looking at facts.

ow many died that Peter or Paul or John did not raise? But yes the abuses of tongues claims and healings claims are abundant and aweful and do great harm keeping many of the lost from being found. Many of these same conmen make huge profit (filthy Lucre as Peter calls it) from being prophets for profit like Balaam. They are ignorant of the heart of God (Isaiah 58:6-12 and Matthew 25:31-46 and many more). But there will be a judgment day and we can only trust the Lord will sort all these things out. Be blessed

By the way, it is right and good to change one's position if we actually were misunderstanding something. I just had to do this when a brother, AKA Rhema, proved to me from the Greek text that the sword of the Spirit is NOT the written word of God (the logos) from the Scriptures, but the rhema (the word we receive from Him in prayer and study. I have been an Apologist for 2 decades and usually do my word studies thoroughly but I apparently never saw this. He was correct and I was incorrect so I changed my position to line up. Anyway...you can still disagree but I have testimonies as well, if you wish to hear a couple.

 

[lentz]

Okay, so to start consider that Paul in Romans 11:29 tells us "the GIFTS and calling of God are without repentance" which means God does not change His mind regarding them. Then consider that the Scripture tells us the Spirit administers severally as He wills (not just to the Apostles) plus the gifts are not like fruit once they are cultivated and grown (which must be seeded for via sowing to the Spirit), They are not something we get to keep permanently (if God uses us to heal someone does not equal we are a Faith Healer). Notice though that it does not say they will cease.

Clement, third Bishop of Rome, disciple of Peter, and co-worker and disciple of Paul, in his 1rst letter to the Corinthians testifies…”a full outpouring of the Holy Spirit was upon you all.“


Ignatius, disciple of John, and second Bishop of Antioch after St. Peter (arouns 110 AD), says in his letter to the Smyrneans, that they also had obtained, “every kind of gift“ and filled with faith and love, were “deficient in no gift…!” St. Polycarp replied…”be wanting in nothing and, …abounding in every gift.“


Justin Martyr (165 A.D.), in his Dialogue with Trypho, (A.N.F. I, pg.s 240-243), writes of his time, “For the prophetic gifts remain with us, even to this present time…it is possible to see among us women, and men, who possess the gifts of the Spirit of God.“

Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (160-180 A.D.), student of Polycarp the disciple of John the Apostle, in Against Heresies (see 2:31-32; 4:9; 5:6) states, “Those who are in truth His disciples, receiving Grace from Him, do in His name perform…it is not possible the number of gifts which the Church…has received from God, in the name of Christ…we do also hear many brethren in the Church who possess prophetic gifts, and who speak in all kinds of tongues…!”

Tertullian, from Against Marcion (A.N.F. III, pg.s 446-447) says “Let Marcion then exhibit, as gifts from his god, some prophets, such as have not spoken by human sense, but filled with the Spirit of God…Let him produce a psalm, a vision, a prayer only…by the Spirit in an ecstacy, that is a rapture, whenever an interpretation of tongues has occurred to him…now all these things are forthcoming from my side without difficulty.“

Origen (240 A.D.), said by some to be the father of Theology, in Against Celsus (1:67; 2:8; 7:3-11), as well as in his Commentary on John, alludes to all the gifts being present in his day as well.

Archelaus (280 A.D.) in Acts of Manes (ECF 6.179) says the gifts are all present even prophecy and tongues.

Let us also note some further examples found in Eusibius’s “Ecclesiastical History“ written in the early fourth century:

Papias tells us of a report he received from the daughters of Phillip (who themselves are mentioned to have prophetic gifts) that they had witnessed a resuscitation of the dead, and of “one named Justus who drank poison unaware and yet, by the grace of God was none the worse.“

Narcissus, Bishop of Jerusalem, said…”Once during the all night Vigil of Easter, the deacons ran out of oil. The whole congregation…distressed,“ So Narcissus told those responsible for the lights, to go and draw vats of water and bring them to him…and saying a prayer over the water, had them pour it into the Menorahs with absolute faith in the Lord to provide. The deacons obeyed the old saint, “and in defiance of natural laws, by the power of God, the substance of the water was physically changed to oil.“

Again Irenaeus, in Refutations and Overthrow of Knowledge Falsely so-called, a work opposing Gnostic Heretics said, “So it is, in His name, those who are truly His disciples, having received grace from Him, put it to effectual use for the benefit of their fellow men, in proportion to the gift each one has received from Him. Some drive out demons really and truly so that often those cleansed from evil spirits believe and become members of the Church, some having foreknowledge of the future, visions, and prophetic utterance, others by laying on of hands heal the sick, and restore them to health, and before now as I said, dead men have actually been raised, and remain with us many years…Similarly we hear of many members…who have prophetic gifts, and by the Spirit speak in all kinds of tongues, and bring men’s secret thoughts to light for their own good and expound the mysteries of God.“

Novatian, 130 years after the finish of John’s revelation on Patmos, in a work entitled, Treatise Concerning the Trinity, said, “This is He who places prophetic gifts in the Church, directs tongues, gives powers and healings, does wonderful works, offers discrimination of spirits, affords powers of governments, suggests councils and order and arranges whatever other gifts there are of charismata; and there the Lord’s Church everywhere and in all perfected and completed.“

Eusibius wrote well after the various Christian centers of North Africa, Jerusalem, Antioch, Ephesus, Rome, etc., had already established what books were accepted books, and which were not. If he were amiss there would have been some comment by Jerome or Augustine or one of the other illustrious early fathers.

Now the Critics like to persuade the unaware and undiscipled, that by the time of John Chrysostym, that the gifts had disappeared, and that Chrysostym himself bears witness to this in the early 400’s, but they are not telling the truth, and the original perpetrators of this mythos knew they were misrepresenting him. What he actually said was that they had “almost entirely disappeared“, which clearly indicates their still present reality in the early 5th century one hundred years after the alleged close of the canon most cite which was around 397 A.D.! And of course we have the already noted clarification of opinion by Augustine in his Reflections.

Then from 601 A.D. in a letter from Gregory the Great to Augustine of Cantebury, who had reported gifts and healings being poured out among the crowds receiving the Gospel and even in some in the churches there in England, Pope Gregory warns him as Jesus did to the 70 upon their return, not to lose focus, that the important thing was that their names were being written in Heaven. This letter is found in Bede’s, Ecclesiastical History, from around 730 A.D., literally centuries after the close of the canon! And finally we know that Francis of Assisi reported such outpourings around 1200 A.D.!

Now it is true as Chrysostom and Augustine indicate that a serious diminishing of the power and expediency of the gifts took place after the church began assuming political power in the empire. We do not doubt that. Neither would I contend as some modern faith preachers that all the gifts should be operating fully as in the Apostles or that they indeed are. First of all, as previously indicated, there was the full endowment of all the gifts in the Apostles, and in the scriptures themselves it changes to their being "administered severally as He wills" upon the Spirit filled. But after Constantine, there was a consistent attempt to gain political control for Christ, or at least for the church, which subsequently waged its war against flesh and blood as history demonstrates, and led eventually to the type of Hierarchical tyranny and militancy that peaked first in the attack of Rome against the Orthodox in Constantinople around 1094 A.D., and then there were the crusades which other than the first had no real legitimacy, then again the political and ecclesiastical power mongers rose up during the Inquisition Period. The Roman hierarchy, became the self-proclaimed sole source and dispenser of (by a political forcefulness of assumed authority if necessary), the truth of God and the Spirit of God, and many individuals with genuine faith in the word or Jesus above the institution, who claimed intimate relationships with God, or exhibited gifts were often tortured and killed by their Bishops and Priests! Foxes, Book of Martyrs, is full of people of sincere faith who were persecuted by this allegedly Christian, yet politically tyrannical, hierarchical regime, allegedly acting in the name of Christ. Why would we expect the Holy Spirit to be demonstrating His will in these male-believers? Many were devils!

Since then the gifts of the Spirit have continued to manifest less occasionally but nonetheless, in spite of their attempt to kill the work of the Holy Spirit in the people of God, they still surfaced every now and again. The political church had all the form, ritual, ceremony, incantations, wealth, military might, and power of persuasion, etc., but denied the real spiritual power thereof, which is the true dynamos and exousia from God. They likewise forbade the eating of meats, taught celibacy as the preferred norm, and eventually elevated the blessed Mary almost to the place of goddess worship, and more. This church furthermore made great effort to discredit, and destroy all evidences of such things now and again over time and destroyed many great libraries that contained many important documents and histories. Of course the gifts were not flowing there.

later Gustov Von Below (adter the turn of the 19th century) makes reference to the many who suddenly began speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance among meetings when this phenomena wasn’t even expected or encouraged.

In the original “Westminster Confession“, the writer recommends that in church, prayer should be made in a known tongue, indirectly referring to the existence of the gift of tongues in which one may speak, as the Apostle defines it, that "no man understands" (where the man utters mysteries unto God not extra biblical revelations to man)! Please be aware the word "unknown" in the KJV, though not literally in the text, is taken here by the translators to be obviously implied by the qualifying phrase regarding "no man" (how many is none?), for if it were referring to a tongue as in an earthly but foreign language, it is possible that some man could have understood it, so therefore, to hold such a position is erroneous, illogical, and grammatically unsupported! Of these tongues no man understands them (not even the speaker). If and when an interpreter arises even they do not know what they will utter as the interpretation for they themselves cannot know this unknown tongue. Then again the plain language of 1 Corinthians 14:5a would likewise make no sense if these were merely human languages, because indeed they already spoke in various human languages.

John Wesley’s famous note to Dr. Conyers Middleton, gives a four point presentation on why these types of outpourings of the Holy Spirit occur less frequently (See The Works of John Wesley, Third edition, Grand Rapids, Baker House, 1978). Wesley professed his belief that any congregation seeking with all their heart to restore and return to true Apostolic doctrine and worship, has these outpourings to some degree more or less.

Likewise, in the historic revivals of the Great Awakening, and even later in some of Dwight Moody’s revivals, we hear of people not even looking for such things, being caught up in the ecstasy of the Spirit, and exhibiting such phenomena.

Now do you really think that this continuous chain of witness since Christ Himself, was some kind of huge century spanning hoax, that employed the willful deception of millions from all ages, both genders, various walks of life, on 5 different continents, and all this somehow by a Ba’alzebub conspiracy? Were all these people, exhibiting the fruit of delusion, and just liars, fakes, and charlatans? This author thinks not. I believe it is against the practice of Christianity to make such an accusation.
​

If they are of God and we say they are of the devil are we in a good place? Careful now, some here are bordering on blaspheming the Holy Spirit! Instead all we have is a history of continuous testimony, and in some senses a boasting of the gifts as one of the proofs in the early church that our relationship with God is real. But yet, do all exhibit gifts? Do all Prophecy? Do all speak in tongues? The answer to all these rhetorical questions is an obvious “No“! Why? Well as the Apostle makes clear under the unction of the Spirit, He "administers them severally as He wills"!

But then......all those people you quoted never listed what those gifts were they were eluding to. The fruit of the spirit in Ephesians is what i believe they are refering too.

 

[Brother Paul]

But then......all those people you quoted never listed what those gifts were they were eluding to. The fruit of the spirit in Ephesians is what i believe they are refering too.

 

[Brother Paul]

They refer to speaking in an unknown tongue, healiñgs, and more, including reference to ALL the gifts. But that's fine. Thanks for looking.

 

[lentz]

They refer to speaking in an unknown tongue, healiñgs, and more, including reference to ALL the gifts. But that's fine. Thanks for looking.

One final thought that comes to mind.
Those who believe in the tongue thing...... They say it is with the same power as Acts 2. They are always claiming Acts 2. Well,in Acts 2,Peter spoke in his normal language and everyone heard him in theirs.
But when Swaggart and others go to another land they have to take an interpreter. Why is that. If its the same power?

 

[Brother Paul]

One final thought that comes to mind.
Those who believe in the tongue thing...... They say it is with the same power as Acts 2. They are always claiming Acts 2. Well,in Acts 2,Peter spoke in his normal language and everyone heard him in theirs.
But when Swaggart and others go to another land they have to take an interpreter. Why is that. If its the same power?

Good point! There are three varieties of tongues. Acts 2 and 10 are the one you point out. They speak up n their language and the heater hears in their own language. God speaks through them.

Next to is the one Paul refers to when we speak in a language no man understands to God.

Then when a person speaks to the church needing an interpreter. Better there be 2 or more interpreting for confirmation that this is what they are saying.

How about this one. I visited a Word of Faith church in Winchester once and this guy Jim had to go. He was going to tongues class where they taught them speaking in tongues. Imagine? What frauds. They were taught that when the Pastor put his hand on their forehead they were to fall backwards (always had a catcher)

 

[B-A-C]

Is this only for apostles? Stephen is never called an apostle in the Bible.

Acts 6:8; And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.

An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

That generation was given the sign of Jonah. Jesus did rise up after 3 days. That was 2000 years ago.
But actually we shouldn't seek money, but God still blesses us sometimes with it.
We shouldn't seek our own glory, but God blesses us with it sometimes.
We shouldn't seek Spiritual signs, but God still performs them sometimes.

1Cor 14:22; So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

Tongues and prophecy are both mentioned here. Did one go away, or both?

Acts 2:17; 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;

When did the "last days" end?

 

[Twistie]

Is this only for apostles? Stephen is never called an apostle in the Bible.



Acts 6:8; And Stephen, full of grace and power, was performing great wonders and signs among the people.





That generation was given the sign of Jonah. Jesus did rise up after 3 days. That was 2000 years ago.

But actually we shouldn't seek money, but God still blesses us sometimes with it.

We shouldn't seek our own glory, but God blesses us with it sometimes.

We shouldn't seek Spiritual signs, but God still performs them sometimes.



1Cor 14:22; So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe.



Tongues and prophecy are both mentioned here. Did one go away, or both?



Acts 2:17; 'AND IT SHALL BE IN THE LAST DAYS,' God says, 'THAT I WILL POUR FORTH OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL MANKIND; AND YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, AND YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, AND YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS;



When did the "last days" end?

 

[lentz]

I dont believe what you quoted in Joel has happened yet.
When did moon turn to blood and sun go black in Acts chapter 2?

 

[B-A-C]

I dont believe what you quoted in Joel has happened yet.

All the more reason to say it isn't over yet.

 

[lentz]

All the more reason to say it isn't over yet.

Now that could be possible