Sons of God

[Admon Mikha'el]

As much as I'm enjoying this conversation...my wife says I have to eat

 

[Brad Huber]

The Book of Enoch is not a Canonized book of the Bible. Mostly because it was written in the 200 BC, so it could not have been written by Enoch.

However, the New Testament does quote the Book of Enoch. (Jude 1:14-15; )


This is Enoch 6 and 7.

[Chapter 6]

1 And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto 2 them beautiful and comely daughters. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men 3 and beget us children.' And Semjaza, who was their leader, said unto them: 'I fear ye will not 4 indeed agree to do this deed, and I alone shall have to pay the penalty of a great sin.' And they all answered him and said: 'Let us all swear an oath, and all bind ourselves by mutual imprecations 5 not to abandon this plan but to do this thing.' Then sware they all together and bound themselves 6 by mutual imprecations upon it. And they were in all two hundred; who descended in the days of Jared on the summit of Mount Hermon, and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn 7 and bound themselves by mutual imprecations upon it. And these are the names of their leaders: Samlazaz, their leader, Araklba, Rameel, Kokablel, Tamlel, Ramlel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Baraqijal, 8 Asael, Armaros, Batarel, Ananel, Zaqiel, Samsapeel, Satarel, Turel, Jomjael, Sariel. These are their chiefs of tens.


[Chapter 7]

1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2 and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three thousand ells: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.


Now while I'm not a big fan of uncanonized books. It does show that the idea that the angels having sex with human women is not a new idea. This was written 200 years before Jesus came down from heaven.

Just for the sake of accuracy, its just the earliest known copy of Enoch that was copied in 200BC. There could have been previous copies. The original written by either the son or grandson of Enoch, cant remember (according to Enoch). I assume Noah kept the copy in the ark, or even the original, not sure. Then copies may or may not have been secured for timelessness(by making new copies periodically or make ones out of metal or stone). Or it could have gone to oral traditions handed down, and eventually copied according to oral tradition. Its really hard to say.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Just for the sake of accuracy, its just the earliest known copy of Enoch that was copied in 200BC. There could have been previous copies. The original written by either the son or grandson of Enoch, cant remember (according to Enoch). I assume Noah kept the copy in the ark, or even the original, not sure. Then copies may or may not have been secured for timelessness(by making new copies periodically or make ones out of metal or stone). Or it could have gone to oral traditions handed down, and eventually copied according to oral tradition. Its really hard to say.

Just for the sake of accuracy, its just the earliest known copy of Enoch that was copied in 200BC. There could have been previous copies. The original written by either the son or grandson of Enoch, cant remember (according to Enoch). I assume Noah kept the copy in the ark, or even the original, not sure. Then copies may or may not have been secured for timelessness(by making new copies periodically or make ones out of metal or stone). Or it could have gone to oral traditions handed down, and eventually copied according to oral tradition. Its really hard to say.

Its interesting how when someone uses this book as a reference the entire conversation switched to "Is this a book worth reading?"

 

[BunnyOnion]

Bibleanswers.us

Fallen angels = Son's of God.
The father of all creation, God. Makes sense.

 

[BunnyOnion]

With regard to the "canon" of scripture and the oft cited belief that only canonized scripture is worthy of respect or study, I think it behooves the serious Bible student to research the etymology of the word itself; canon.

Also, with regard to the Book of Enoch. If Jesus saying it qualifies as scripture, for me that's enough.
Matthew 22:23-29.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 22 - Mounce Reverse Interlinear New Testament

Once again Jesus spoke to them in parables, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding feast for his son and sent his servants to call those who had been invited to the feast; but they would not come. Then he sent other servants, saying, ‘Tell those who have been...

www.biblegateway.com

They don't know the scriptures?
But Jesus did!
The Book of Enoch 15:4-7

Chapter 15 – The Book of Enoch

Also, per the age of the Book of Enoch and it possibly being written in 200 B.C, and that being cause for dismissal.
It may help to put things in perspective, besides the fact Jesus cited a passage from Enoch, that the date of the earliest papyrus manuscript canonized for entry into the New Testament is cataloged as Papayri P90 and is found in the Gospel of John. Papayri P90 dates to 2nd century A.D.
Written more than a century after Jesus ascended.

 

[Butch5]

The problem I have with the Angel theory is who do immaterial spirits have children with material humans?

 

[Brad Huber]

The problem I have with the Angel theory is who do immaterial spirits have children with material humans?

They have the ability to make themselves a body. To switch back and forth tween spirit and material. Angels are spirits and yet, there are examples of them being solid, perhaps something like the glorified body Jesus had, or that we are promised. As to creating a seed of life to inject into a female, that I am unsure of, but I dont need to know all to see truth.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

The problem I have with the Angel theory is who do immaterial spirits have children with material humans?

Think about it Butch....Jesus walked through a locked door into the room where He spoke to Thomas, ..Had Thomas put his hand into the wound on His side...He met the disciples on the beach, made a fire then cooked and ate fish with them. These are just two examples of what Jesus did with His new body...His heaven body...He has a solid touchable body now, in heaven.....Now look at Genesis 32 where Jacob wrestled all night with an angel, who put Jacobs hip out of joint. Or Peter who was in prison sleeping when an angel came and nudged him awake with his foot...Angels are most definitely NOT simple wisps of mist. or shadows...They are solid and they are powerful...One angel killed hundreds, thousands? of soldiers in one night...Can mist do that? Well I suppost it could if it was a poison gas but angels are not gas either...

 

[Butch5]

They have the ability to make themselves a body. To switch back and forth tween spirit and material. Angels are spirits and yet, there are examples of them being solid, perhaps something like the glorified body Jesus had, or that we are promised. As to creating a seed of life to inject into a female, that I am unsure of, but I dont need to know all to see truth.

Do you have Scripture for that?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

They have the ability to make themselves a body. To switch back and forth tween spirit and material. Angels are spirits and yet, there are examples of them being solid, perhaps something like the glorified body Jesus had, or that we are promised. As to creating a seed of life to inject into a female, that I am unsure of, but I dont need to know all to see truth.

Where does it say that bodies in Heaven, human bodies, angel bodies, or even Jesus' body is not solid? There is ample evidence in the Word that they are quite solid.

 

[Butch5]

Think about it Butch....Jesus walked through a locked door into the room where He spoke to Thomas, ..Had Thomas put his hand into the wound on His side...He met the disciples on the beach, made a fire then cooked and ate fish with them. These are just two examples of what Jesus did with His new body...His heaven body...He has a solid touchable body now, in heaven.....Now look at Genesis 32 where Jacob wrestled all night with an angel, who put Jacobs hip out of joint. Or Peter who was in prison sleeping when an angel came and nudged him awake with his foot...Angels are most definitely NOT simple wisps of mist. or shadows...They are solid and they are powerful...One angel killed hundreds, thousands? of soldiers in one night...Can mist do that? Well I suppost it could if it was a poison gas but angels are not gas either...

We don't know that Jesus walked through a closed door. We do know that God moves people around. We have Enoch, Philip, Elijah, etc. God took them from one place and put them in another. Jesus' body is the same flesh body that He was born with. Note, the body that was raised with the hole and the scars was the same body that went into the grave. I think it quite possible that God sple put Jesus where He wanted Him.

I have no doubt that angels could be in the flesh if God chose to do that. However, I'm not sure angels have that ability apart from God doing it. Are you aware of fallen angels having flesh bodies that God had nothing to do with?

 

[JerryfromMass]

Where does it say that bodies in Heaven, human bodies, angel bodies, or even Jesus' body is not solid? There is ample evidence in the Word that they are quite solid.

Jesus has a physically solid body, but nowhere in the Word does it say Satan and fallen angels have physically solid bodies. More speculation on your part based on God's messengers having solid bodies.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

We don't know that Jesus walked through a closed door. We do know that God moves people around. We have Enoch, Philip, Elijah, etc. God took them from one place and put them in another. Jesus' body is the same flesh body that He was born with. Note, the body that was raised with the hole and the scars was the same body that went into the grave. I think it quite possible that God sple put Jesus where He wanted Him.

I have no doubt that angels could be in the flesh if God chose to do that. However, I'm not sure angels have that ability apart from God doing it. Are you aware of fallen angels having flesh bodies that God had nothing to do with?

The fallen angels have the same bodies they had when God made them....Jesus has the marks on His body so that you will never never forget what He did for you....

John 20:19
19 In the evening that same day, the first day of the week, when the talmidim were gathered together behind locked doors out of fear of the Judeans, Yeshua came, stood in the middle and said, “Shalom aleikhem!”
Yup...It sure looks like He went through a locked door...

Why do you have such a difficult time simply reading the Word and believing what it says....Its written quite simply for simple minds like ours....Don't complicate it.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Jesus has a physically solid body, but nowhere in the Word does it say Satan and fallen angels have physically solid bodies. More speculation on your part based on God's messengers having solid bodies.

Just read it in the Word! Honestly, sometimes I think that some people are too smart for their own good. They let their brain get in the way of their intelligence

 

[JerryfromMass]

Just read it in the Word! Honestly, sometimes I think that some people are too smart for their own good. They let their brain get in the way of their intelligence

How tall are these physically solid fallen angels: 15, 20 feet tall?

 

[Butch5]

The fallen angels have the same bodies they had when God made them....Jesus has the marks on His body so that you will never never forget what He did for you....

John 20:19
19 In the evening that same day, the first day of the week, when the talmidim were gathered together behind locked doors out of fear of the Judeans, Yeshua came, stood in the middle and said, “Shalom aleikhem!”
Yup...It sure looks like He went through a locked door...

Why do you have such a difficult time simply reading the Word and believing what it says....Its written quite simply for simple minds like ours....Don't complicate it.

Why? Look at Christianity. There are people who believe just about anything one can think up. I do believe what it says, when it's understood correctly. However, again looking out over the Christian world I can see that a lot of people don't understand much of what the word says. Sure we can believe anything that doesn't make it true. Some believe they can't lose salvation some believe they can. Obviously someone doesn't understand what they read. Some say spiritual gifts are active and some say they're not. Obviously some don't understand what they redd. I could go on, but I think you the point.

I know of no one who is able to walk through doors, so, my life experience has shown me that people can't walk through doors. If Jesus is a man, which Scripture says He is, the my experience tells me that He can't walk through doors. So, if He can't walk through doors how did He get in there? What seems most logical to me is that God did something to intervene.

Please tell me, why would I expect that Jesus could walk through doors rather than think God put Him there?

What bodies are they that the fallen angels were created with?

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Why? Look at Christianity. There are people who believe just about anything one can think up. I do believe what it says, when it's understood correctly. However, again looking out over the Christian world I can see that a lot of people don't understand much of what the word says. Sure we can believe anything that doesn't make it true. Some believe they can't lose salvation some believe they can. Obviously someone doesn't understand what they read. Some say spiritual gifts are active and some say they're not. Obviously some don't understand what they redd. I could go on, but I think you the point.

I know of no one who is able to walk through doors, so, my life experience has shown me that people can't walk through doors. If Jesus is a man, which Scripture says He is, the my experience tells me that He can't walk through doors. So, if He can't walk through doors how did He get in there? What seems most logical to me is that God did something to intervene.

Please tell me, why would I expect that Jesus could walk through doors rath"

Why? Look at Christianity. There are people who believe just about anything one can think up. I do believe what it says, when it's understood correctly. However, again looking out over the Christian world I can see that a lot of people don't understand much of what the word says. Sure we can believe anything that doesn't make it true. Some believe they can't lose salvation some believe they can. Obviously someone doesn't understand what they read. Some say spiritual gifts are active and some say they're not. Obviously some don't understand what they redd. I could go on, but I think you the point.

I know of no one who is able to walk through doors, so, my life experience has shown me that people can't walk through doors. If Jesus is a man, which Scripture says He is, the my experience tells me that He can't walk through doors. So, if He can't walk through doors how did He get in there? What seems most logical to me is that God did something to intervene.

Please tell me, why would I expect that Jesus could walk through doors rather than think God put Him there?

What bodies are they that the fallen angels were created with?

Well sir, You're going to have to put "experience" aside and go by the Word...What does the Word say? What does John 20:19 say?
19 In the evening that same day, the first day of the week, when the talmidim were gathered together behind locked doors out of fear of the Judeans, Yeshua came, stood in the middle and said, “Shalom aleikhem!”
'
The door was locked and Jesus came in and stood in the midst of them.. THAT'S what happened...He walked through a locked door and stood in the midst of them.... A person would need help to get that one wrong!

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus has a physically solid body, but nowhere in the Word does it say Satan and fallen angels have physically solid bodies. More speculation on your part based on God's messengers having solid bodies.

Gen 19:1; Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground.
Gen 19:10; But the men reached out their hands and pulled Lot into the house with them, and shut the door.
Gen 19:11; And they struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they became weary trying to find the door.

It seems these angels physically grabbed Lot and pulled him into the house.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

Gen 19:1; Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground.
Gen 19:10; But the men reached out their hands and pulled Lot into the house with them, and shut the door.
Gen 19:11; And they struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they became weary trying to find the door.

It seems these angels physically grabbed Lot and pulled him into the house.

According to Jerry it was mist that did that....

 

[JerryfromMass]

Gen 19:1; Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground.
Gen 19:10; But the men reached out their hands and pulled Lot into the house with them, and shut the door.
Gen 19:11; And they struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they became weary trying to find the door.

It seems these angels physically grabbed Lot and pulled him into the house.

As I said, @B-A-C, "God's messengers having solid bodies." Fallen angels are not God's messengers. And, nowhere does the Word of God explicitly say fallen angels have physically solid bodies. If I were to speculate, I would say fallen angels lost their ability to go from spirit to solid when they decided to follow Satan- the prince of the power of the AIR.