Speaking in Tongues: A Sign for Nonbelievers

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

JonahofAkron said:
For what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree with you on this.

thanks Jonah

actually it is God who you agree with

kit, you and others believe what you read as do I.

I did not write this God had Paul write it.

we believe what we read.

jiggyfly · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:

Now that I have read chapter 12 and even included it for all to read

1 Corinthians 12

1Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, evediversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4Now there are of administrations, but the same Lord. 5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14For the body is not one member, but many.
15If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18But now hath God set the members every one of them in the body, as it hath pleased him.
19And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee: nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more feeble, are necessary:
23And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked.
25That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
26And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
28And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? 31But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.

lets go over chapter 14 and read the same Paul who worte chapter 112

1 Corinthians 14

22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe

Who was the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues given to and for what purpose?

Hint, check out verse 7.

jiggyfly · Nov 29, 2011

JonahofAkron said:
If the context of the Spirit's ministration is evangelizing, who is taking the verses out of context? I assure you that it is not Ozell. When congregations drop the evangelizing nature of the gifts of the Spirit, they lose focus and use the gifts for 'natural and carnal' purposes.

Try reading chapter 12 verse 7.

jiggyfly · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:
pay attention J

if there is no interpreter Paul says keep silence(shut up)

start in chapter 12

when you get to chapter 14 those who speak in tongues are told to shut up if there is no interpreter and speaking in a unknown tongue is for non- believers and it edifies NO ONE.

this we read and no interpretation is needed.

Kinda contrary to what Paul said earlier. Do you retain what you read Ozell???

A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.
1 Cor 14:4 (NLT)

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

jiggyfly said:
Who was the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues given to and for what purpose?

Hint, check out verse 7.

6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

where is the interpreter of the tongue, what tongue are you and the tongue speakers using where is the spirit to interpret and edify the people on these tongues? let him manifest

what is the profit of speaking a unknown tongue when no one understands it.

where is the manifestation of the spirit when the unknown tongue is spoken in these churches?

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

jiggyfly said:
Kinda contrary to what Paul said earlier. Do you retain what you read Ozell???

A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.
1 Cor 14:4 (NLT)

ok

yet Paul said for that person to keep silence if there is no interpreter around

Jiggy

why ignore the word of God

why is these people speaking in a unknown tongue out loud where everyone see and hear them it seems to me that verse 4 above is not being followed in the churches.

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

jiggyfly said:
Who was the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues given to and for what purpose?

Hint, check out verse 7.

so all the people in these tongue churches have the gift?

yea right

try there spirit and I guarantee you those same people

believe there is 3 days and 3 nights from Good Friday to Easter Sunday morning

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

1 Corinthians 14

1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

who are these people in the tongue churches edifying as the parade aound speaking ALOUD in a unknown tongue?

who?

jiggyfly · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:
6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.

7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

where is the interpreter of the tongue, what tongue are you and the tongue speakers using where is the spirit to interpret and edify the people on these tongues? let him manifest

what is the profit of speaking a unknown tongue when no one understands it.

where is the manifestation of the spirit when the unknown tongue is spoken in these churches?

If you can't answer my questions just say so.

jiggyfly · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:
1 Corinthians 14

1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort. 4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

who are these people in the tongue churches edifying as the parade aound speaking ALOUD in a unknown tongue?

who?

Does it matter the scripture clearly says that one is edified or strengthened where you clearly said "NO ONE" is edified.

Paul's conclusion concerning the spiritual gifts of speaking in tongues and prophecy is;
39 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don’t forbid speaking in tongues.40 But be sure that everything is done properly and in order.
1 Cor 14:39-40 (NLT)

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

jiggyfly said:
Does it matter the scripture clearly says that one is edified or strengthened where you clearly said "NO ONE" is edified.

Paul's conclusion concerning the spiritual gifts of speaking in tongues and prophecy is;
39 So, my dear brothers and sisters, be eager to prophesy, and don’t forbid speaking in tongues.40 But be sure that everything is done properly and in order.
1 Cor 14:39-40 (NLT)

OK Jggy

no one is edified except the person who is speaking in tongue

no one is edified except the person who is speaking in a unknown tongue.

no one, not one is edified except the one who speaks in the unknown tongue.

no not one!!!

jiggyfly · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:
so all the people in these tongue churches have the gift?

yea right

try there spirit and I guarantee you those same people

believe there is 3 days and 3 nights from Good Friday to Easter Sunday morning

I have never said that the Pentecostal religious organization was right. There are fakes in every bunch including yours. Why do you think Paul was writing this letter?

Next time you try to do an expository teaching try including all of the text, it will drastically change your conclusion.

Let me give you a scenario someone speaks out in tongues by the unction of HolySpirit and HolySpirit unctions another to interpret what was said but they disobey and resist.
Who is in error?

Paul laid a similar scenario out and said that if there was no interpretation of what was spoken in tongues than the one speaking in tongues should not continue to speak out but rather speak in tongues to God privately. He does not say they are wrong or in error.

jiggyfly · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:
OK Jggy

no one is edified except the person who is speaking in tongue

no one is edified except the person who is speaking in a unknown tongue.

no one, not one is edified except the one who speaks in the unknown tongue.

no not one!!!

Your obviously struggling with accepting correction and your failing to see the "except" here.

If an individual is not strengthened, edified or built up in the Lord how can they strengthen, edify or build up others in the Lord?

You must ask yourself who or what would be against or threatened by someone being personally strengthened in the Lord?

Paul himself said that he spoke in tongues more than any of the Corinthians, was Paul in error? Do you suppose he had a demon?

Seems to me you are changing what Paul said to fit your own preference and trying to reduce the supernatural gifts of HolySpirit into something that carnal man is capable of doing all on his own.

RJ · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:
OK Jggy

no one is edified except the person who is speaking in tongue

no one is edified except the person who is speaking in a unknown tongue.

no one, not one is edified except the one who speaks in the unknown tongue.

no not one!!!

I am not sure where you are heading with this?

You do agree with the following with regards to what St. Paul said on this subject:

The important thing is the edyfying of the church. If you are speaking in tongues and others are listening and do not understand, you must have and interpreter. If you do not have an interpreter, it is best not to speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:28

New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

RJ said:
I am not sure where you are heading with this?

You do agree with the following with regards to what St. Paul said on this subject:

The important thing is the edyfying of the church. If you are speaking in tongues and others are listening and do not understand, you must have and interpreter. If you do not have an interpreter, it is best not to speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:28

New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

you just repeated what I said and what is written.

this is not hard to understand we are on the same page RJ.

when the tongue speakers are out loud speaking in tongue and a interpreter is not around they are to shut up.

now in these churches we could have 2 to 2000 people speaking in some unknown tongue and yet I can't find one interpreter.

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

jiggyfly said:
Your obviously struggling with accepting correction and your failing to see the "except" here.

If an individual is not strengthened, edified or built up in the Lord how can they strengthen, edify or build up others in the Lord?

You must ask yourself who or what would be against or threatened by someone being personally strengthened in the Lord?

Paul himself said that he spoke in tongues more than any of the Corinthians, was Paul in error? Do you suppose he had a demon?

Seems to me you are changing what Paul said to fit your own preference and trying to reduce the supernatural gifts of HolySpirit into something that carnal man is capable of doing all on his own.

Paul spoke in many tongues, Paul spoke many languages

many people here in this Melting pot called America speak MORE THAN ONE LANGUAGE,but the language of choice here in the US is English.

as far as the rest of your post none of those thing you are accusing me of I have not done, you are on a witch hut and you are acting and behaving unchristian.

Go back and read your post they don't make sense.

lets move on

most here agree with what is written and not your opinion

ozell · Nov 29, 2011

jiggyfly said:
I have never said that the Pentecostal religious organization was right. There are fakes in every bunch including yours. Why do you think Paul was writing this letter?

Next time you try to do an expository teaching try including all of the text, it will drastically change your conclusion.

Let me give you a scenario someone speaks out in tongues by the unction of HolySpirit and HolySpirit unctions another to interpret what was said but they disobey and resist.
Who is in error?

Paul laid a similar scenario out and said that if there was no interpretation of what was spoken in tongues than the one speaking in tongues should not continue to speak out but rather speak in tongues to God privately. He does not say they are wrong or in error.

J

i did not say they were wrong, I quoted the bible. and the bible said they are to keep silence if there is no interpreter.

the bible says they do not edify the church

your problem is not with me it is with the word of God.

lets move on.

RJ · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:
you just repeated what I said and what is written.

this is not hard to understand we are on the same page RJ.

when the tongue speakers are out loud speaking in tongue and a interpreter is not around they are to shut up.

now in these churches we could have 2 to 2000 people speaking in some unknown tongue and yet I can't find one interpreter.

Agreed, thanks for this clarification.

I know you started the original post: Speaking in Tongues: A Sign for Nonbelievers

And I know that you eventually went to 1 Cor 14, that addresses the original post but many, many posts you seem to go off in all sorts of directions, here are some examples:
I Corinthians the 14th chapter in the 33rd verse it states, "God is not the author of confusion."
(Acts 2: 1-2)
(1 Chronicles 14: 13-15)
(John 3: 8)
(Psalms 104: 1-4)
(Joel 2: 28-32
(Psalm 16:8-11
John 6:63

I personally think that you would be better suited in avoiding any type of vagueness in your points. Just qoute all of Paul's scripture that completely addresses tongues and I could have agreed much quicker.

jiggyfly · Nov 29, 2011

ozell said:
J

i did not say they were wrong, I quoted the bible. and the bible said they are to keep silence if there is no interpreter.

the bible says they do not edify the church

your problem is not with me it is with the word of God.

lets move on.

Nah, it's not with the scriptures it's with you weak interpretation.

Again, Paul's conclusion regarding tongues is forbid not the speaking in tongues, period....

ozell · Nov 30, 2011

=RJ;189785]Agreed, thanks for this clarification.

I know you started the original post: Speaking in Tongues: A Sign for Nonbelievers

And I know that you eventually went to 1 Cor 14, that addresses the original post but many, many posts you seem to go off in all sorts of directions, here are some examples:

rj

read each verse below it deals with the lesson.

I Corinthians the 14th chapter in the 33rd verse it states, "God is not the author of confusion."

have you ever been in a tongue speaking church and had the unplesantry of listening to 20 to a 100 people babbling. this is confusion and God is not the author of this.

(Acts 2: 1-2)

this is the chapter they use to justify speaking in tongues and this is the rushing mighty wind that entered in on the day of pentecost

(1 Chronicles 14: 13-15)

a example of a rushing mighty wind to show what happned in Act 2

(John 3: 8)
(Psalms 104: 1-4)
(Joel 2: 28-32
(Psalm 16:8-11
John 6:63

I personally think that you would be better suited in avoiding any type of vagueness in your points. Just qoute all of Paul's scripture that completely addresses tongues and I could have agreed much quicker.

I'm not here to get agreements, and each verse above deals with the topic.

why would I quote all of Paul's verses when Paul quoted the prophets.

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