The Abomination of Desolation

[Sue J Love]

“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.” (Matthew 24:15-18 NASB1995)

What is this “holy place” being spoken of here? It is not a third physical temple yet to be built in physical Jerusalem, a city which is of Hagar, the slave woman, representing all Jews who have denied Jesus Christ as their Lord and Messiah. The Holy place is the bride of Christ, his body, the temple of God, the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, which is from above, and not of this earth (see Galatians 4:22-31). The church is that temple of God.

The holy place is and always be in the hearts and lives of people who by faith in Jesus deny self, die to sin, and obey God. But so much of the church, via the 501c3 status of corporation, has partnered with the wicked via the government, so have opened the door wide for the abomination that causes desolation to enter into the hearts and minds of those who profess faith in Jesus Christ. Now so many are living no differently from non-Christians.

And what is an abomination? It is a disgrace, outrage, atrocity, and/or revulsion. And it is indeed standing in the holy place, the temple of God, the church. And this goes at least all the way back to the 1950’s when the church at large was convinced they needed to incorporate under the state, though they were already tax exempt. But that brought government worship into the church gatherings via the pledge of allegiance to our government.

For the church then unequally yoked together with the ungodly in an unholy union, at least here in America, to market the church to the world just like any other worldly business, both of which God forbids. Thus, they altered and distorted the gospel of Jesus Christ to make it more palatable to the world and to the flesh of humans. Thus, they removed the offense of the cross to not offend the flesh of man. That is an abomination to the Lord!

So, why is the abomination to be of a desolation (devastation)? Because God must judge his adulterous, idolatrous, and wicked church who are presently living in spiritual adultery, to bring her to revival and back into a faithful and holy union with him as her only God before the end of time, to save her from hell for eternity (Revelation 2-3). And, with that judgment will come misery, isolation, and destruction. Sounds like what is happening today, doesn’t it?

And what does it mean to flee this abomination? I believe it means for us, the bride of Christ, to have no part in this abomination, to not partner with it, which is to not partner with the institutional church which is in this unholy union with the world, and which is marketing the church and the false gospel to human flesh. We are to live in the world, but we are not to be partakers in what is worldly and sinful, and that which is contrary to the will of God.

[Matthew 7:21-23; Matthew 21:12-13; Luke 9:23-26; John 2:13-17; John 15:19; Acts 5:27-32; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; Romans 12:1-2; 1 Corinthians 1:10-13; 1 Corinthians 3:1-9; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18; Philippians 3:18-19; Titus 2:11-14; Ephesians 2:8-10; 1 John 1:1-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22; Revelation 13:5-8; Revelation 18:1-5]

Where is Jesus?

An Original Work / May 22, 2011
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Fishing, swimming, boating, sailing,
Driving, hiking, camping, trailing,
Bowling, golfing, TV watching,
Videos, movies and talking –
Where is Jesus found?

Friends and Facebook chat and email,
Internet, blogs, news sites, retail,
Magazines, books, sports and music,
Laptops, I-Pads, smart phones, texting –
Where is Jesus now?

Jobs, careers, and data bases,
Business, money, many faces,
Get ahead of everyone who’s
Competition; always running –
Where does Jesus fit?

The Abomination of Desolation
An Original Work / March 7, 2026
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

 

[MedicBravo]

1. Original Source — The Book of Daniel​

The phrase appears in Book of Daniel, specifically in Daniel 9:27, 11:31, and 12:11.
In Daniel, it refers to a sacrilegious act that desecrates the Temple in Jerusalem—something so offensive it leaves the holy place spiritually “desolate.”

Historical interpretation​

Many historians believe Daniel was referring to events under Antiochus IV Epiphanes around 167 BC.

What happened:

• Antiochus controlled Judea under the Seleucid Empire.
• He banned Jewish religious practices.
• He defiled the Second Temple in Jerusalem.
• According to Jewish sources, he set up an altar to Zeus and sacrificed pigs there.

The Temple itself is Second Temple.

This event triggered the Maccabean Revolt.

For many historians, this is the original “abomination.”

2. Jesus’ Reference in the Gospels​

Jesus later mentions the phrase in the Gospel of Matthew (Matthew 24:15) and Gospel of Mark.

He says:

“When you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel standing in the holy place…”

Many Christians believe Jesus was referring to a future event.

One common historical fulfillment​

In 70 AD the Romans destroyed Jerusalem during the Siege of Jerusalem led by Titus.
Some scholars think the Roman standards (idolatrous military banners) placed in the Temple area were the “abomination.”

3. End-Times Interpretation (Antichrist Theory)​

In many modern Christian interpretations, the Abomination of Desolation refers to an end-times event involving the Antichrist.
This view says:

• A future Third Temple will exist in Jerusalem.
• The Antichrist will enter the Temple.
• He will declare himself God and stop sacrifices.
• This act becomes the ultimate “abomination.”

This interpretation often connects Daniel with Book of Revelation and Second Epistle to the Thessalonians.

4. So Who​

It depends on the interpretation:

1. Historical (most scholars)
   → Antiochus IV Epiphanes
2. Roman destruction interpretation
   → Roman forces under Titus
3. Future prophetic interpretation
   → The Antichrist

The Antichrist.
Not Donald Trump.

 

[B-A-C]

Sue, I appreciate your heart here — the concern about worldliness creeping into the church is very real and worth talking about. But I have some difficulties with the interpretation itself that I'd like to share respectfully.

The language Jesus uses in Matthew 24 seems to demand a literal reading. He tells people on rooftops not to go back inside, and people in fields to run — that's evacuation language, not a metaphor for leaving institutional church structures. And when He says 'let the reader understand,' He's pointing us back to Daniel, where the abomination involves a physical sanctuary, a cessation of daily sacrifices, and precise day counts (1,260, 1,290, and 1,335 days). It's hard to fit those numbered days onto an ongoing condition of church compromise.

Paul adds weight to this in 2 Thessalonians 2, where the man of lawlessness physically seats himself in the temple declaring himself God. That's a specific man doing a specific thing in a specific place.

I'd also gently push back on the internal logic — if the holy place is our hearts, and the abomination is already dwelling there, that leaves us in a pretty hopeless position with no defined resolution or endpoint.

Your application about church worldliness may well be valid — but I think it's riding on an interpretation the text doesn't support. What are your thoughts?

 

[Sue J Love]

1. Original Source — The Book of Daniel​

The phrase appears in Book of Daniel, specifically in Daniel 9:27, 11:31, and 12:11.
In Daniel, it refers to a sacrilegious act that desecrates the Temple in Jerusalem—something so offensive it leaves the holy place spiritually “desolate.”

Historical interpretation​

Many historians believe Daniel was referring to events under Antiochus IV Epiphanes around 167 BC.

What happened:

• Antiochus controlled Judea under the Seleucid Empire.
• He banned Jewish religious practices.
• He defiled the Second Temple in Jerusalem.
• According to Jewish sources, he set up an altar to Zeus and sacrificed pigs there.

The Temple itself is Second Temple.

This event triggered the Maccabean Revolt.

For many historians, this is the original “abomination.”

2. Jesus’ Reference in the Gospels​

Jesus later mentions the phrase in the Gospel of Matthew (Matthew 24:15) and Gospel of Mark.

He says:


Many Christians believe Jesus was referring to a future event.

One common historical fulfillment​

In 70 AD the Romans destroyed Jerusalem during the Siege of Jerusalem led by Titus.
Some scholars think the Roman standards (idolatrous military banners) placed in the Temple area were the “abomination.”

3. End-Times Interpretation (Antichrist Theory)​

In many modern Christian interpretations, the Abomination of Desolation refers to an end-times event involving the Antichrist.
This view says:

• A future Third Temple will exist in Jerusalem.
• The Antichrist will enter the Temple.
• He will declare himself God and stop sacrifices.
• This act becomes the ultimate “abomination.”

This interpretation often connects Daniel with Book of Revelation and Second Epistle to the Thessalonians.

4. So Who​

It depends on the interpretation:

1. Historical (most scholars)
   → Antiochus IV Epiphanes
2. Roman destruction interpretation
   → Roman forces under Titus
3. Future prophetic interpretation
   → The Antichrist

The Antichrist.
Not Donald Trump.

MedicBravo, thank you for your kind and thoughtful response. I appreciate you reading what I shared and giving your response to it. Sue

 

[Sue J Love]

Sue, I appreciate your heart here — the concern about worldliness creeping into the church is very real and worth talking about. But I have some difficulties with the interpretation itself that I'd like to share respectfully.

The language Jesus uses in Matthew 24 seems to demand a literal reading. He tells people on rooftops not to go back inside, and people in fields to run — that's evacuation language, not a metaphor for leaving institutional church structures. And when He says 'let the reader understand,' He's pointing us back to Daniel, where the abomination involves a physical sanctuary, a cessation of daily sacrifices, and precise day counts (1,260, 1,290, and 1,335 days). It's hard to fit those numbered days onto an ongoing condition of church compromise.

Paul adds weight to this in 2 Thessalonians 2, where the man of lawlessness physically seats himself in the temple declaring himself God. That's a specific man doing a specific thing in a specific place.

I'd also gently push back on the internal logic — if the holy place is our hearts, and the abomination is already dwelling there, that leaves us in a pretty hopeless position with no defined resolution or endpoint.

Your application about church worldliness may well be valid — but I think it's riding on an interpretation the text doesn't support. What are your thoughts?

BAC, thank you for taking the time to read what I shared and to give a thoughtful and kind response. But with regard to the temple, there is only one temple of God and that is the body of Christ, the church, which includes Christ as the head of the church. It is the only holy place, never to be replaced by any other "holy place," which has to be of God. And the abomination which causes desolation has already infiltrated that holy place and has taken up residence and power and control via the church incorporating (partnering, joining in with) the world and with the government and the ungodly and have turned the church into a marketplace to be marketed to the world, all of which God forbids. So, the abomination has already taken place inside the church, and inside the hearts of many who profess faith in Jesus Christ, but not everyone has partnered with the world and with big business, and not everyone has compromised truth and righteousness in order to attract the world to their gatherings.

And if you read the book of Revelation, in particularly, you will realize that figurative language is used all throughout, so not everything is to be taken literally, but much is to be taken more figuratively. But the Bible makes it clear that the only holy place now is the temple of God which is the body of Christ, and most definitely the antichrist has taken up residence within the church and is leading the masses to believe the lies and to reject the truth, which is the abomination which causes desolation (the judgment of God). God is concerned about what is in our hearts, not who is in a physical building. He is concerned about liars and deceivers taking up residence in the gatherings of the church and leading the masses to follow after the lies and to reject the truth of the gospel. That is a cause for judgment, not a man taking residence in a physical building. And we are indeed being called of God, each one of us, to come out from among her so that we do not share in her sins and in her punishment. [Matthew 21:12-13; John 2:13-17; Acts 5:27-32; 1 Corinthians 1:10-13; 1 Corinthians 3:1-9; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18; Philippians 3:18-19; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22; Revelation 13:5-8; Revelation 18:1-5] Please seek the Lord in prayer about what I have shared with you. Sincerely, Sue J Love

 

[Bill]

“Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak.” (Matthew 24:15-18 NASB1995)

What is this “holy place” being spoken of here? It is not a third physical temple yet to be built in physical Jerusalem, a city which is of Hagar, the slave woman, representing all Jews who have denied Jesus Christ as their Lord and Messiah. The Holy place is the bride of Christ, his body, the temple of God, the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, which is from above, and not of this earth (see Galatians 4:22-31). The church is that temple of God.

The holy place is and always be in the hearts and lives of people who by faith in Jesus deny self, die to sin, and obey God. But so much of the church, via the 501c3 status of corporation, has partnered with the wicked via the government, so have opened the door wide for the abomination that causes desolation to enter into the hearts and minds of those who profess faith in Jesus Christ. Now so many are living no differently from non-Christians.

And what is an abomination? It is a disgrace, outrage, atrocity, and/or revulsion. And it is indeed standing in the holy place, the temple of God, the church. And this goes at least all the way back to the 1950’s when the church at large was convinced they needed to incorporate under the state, though they were already tax exempt. But that brought government worship into the church gatherings via the pledge of allegiance to our government.

For the church then unequally yoked together with the ungodly in an unholy union, at least here in America, to market the church to the world just like any other worldly business, both of which God forbids. Thus, they altered and distorted the gospel of Jesus Christ to make it more palatable to the world and to the flesh of humans. Thus, they removed the offense of the cross to not offend the flesh of man. That is an abomination to the Lord!

So, why is the abomination to be of a desolation (devastation)? Because God must judge his adulterous, idolatrous, and wicked church who are presently living in spiritual adultery, to bring her to revival and back into a faithful and holy union with him as her only God before the end of time, to save her from hell for eternity (Revelation 2-3). And, with that judgment will come misery, isolation, and destruction. Sounds like what is happening today, doesn’t it?

And what does it mean to flee this abomination? I believe it means for us, the bride of Christ, to have no part in this abomination, to not partner with it, which is to not partner with the institutional church which is in this unholy union with the world, and which is marketing the church and the false gospel to human flesh. We are to live in the world, but we are not to be partakers in what is worldly and sinful, and that which is contrary to the will of God.

[Matthew 7:21-23; Matthew 21:12-13; Luke 9:23-26; John 2:13-17; John 15:19; Acts 5:27-32; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; Romans 12:1-2; 1 Corinthians 1:10-13; 1 Corinthians 3:1-9; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18; Philippians 3:18-19; Titus 2:11-14; Ephesians 2:8-10; 1 John 1:1-10; Revelation 2:1-29; Revelation 3:1-22; Revelation 13:5-8; Revelation 18:1-5]

Where is Jesus?

An Original Work / May 22, 2011
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

Fishing, swimming, boating, sailing,
Driving, hiking, camping, trailing,
Bowling, golfing, TV watching,
Videos, movies and talking –
Where is Jesus found?

Friends and Facebook chat and email,
Internet, blogs, news sites, retail,
Magazines, books, sports and music,
Laptops, I-Pads, smart phones, texting –
Where is Jesus now?

Jobs, careers, and data bases,
Business, money, many faces,
Get ahead of everyone who’s
Competition; always running –
Where does Jesus fit?

The Abomination of Desolation
An Original Work / March 7, 2026
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

I have to disagree with you on that just a little bit. Knowing how God likes to do both the physical and spiritual at the same time. I have to believe that it is indeed a physical Temple. As well as a spiritual Temple.

I think you'll find that much of this also surrounds Jerusalem has so much of the New Testament is based on Jerusalem at the center of everything. Even Revelations, the horses start from a location and that location is Jerusalem

 

[farmerjoe]

There is no future temple coming until after the consummation. You guys call it the Millennial Temple. Most interpreters believe this is one of the most difficult passages to understand. But I bet you have it figured out.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I can tell you what I think AFTER you give me your 'detailed' explanation.

 

[Bill]

There is no future temple coming until after the consummation. You guys call it the Millennial Temple. Most interpreters believe this is one of the most difficult passages to understand. But I bet you have it figured out.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

I can tell you what I think AFTER you give me your 'detailed' explanation.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom
The future is in God. And unless God shows you exactly what the future is, do not claim to know it

 

[NoSoftAltar]

Sue, I appreciate your heart here — the concern about worldliness creeping into the church is very real and worth talking about. But I have some difficulties with the interpretation itself that I'd like to share respectfully.

The language Jesus uses in Matthew 24 seems to demand a literal reading. He tells people on rooftops not to go back inside, and people in fields to run — that's evacuation language, not a metaphor for leaving institutional church structures. And when He says 'let the reader understand,' He's pointing us back to Daniel, where the abomination involves a physical sanctuary, a cessation of daily sacrifices, and precise day counts (1,260, 1,290, and 1,335 days). It's hard to fit those numbered days onto an ongoing condition of church compromise.

Paul adds weight to this in 2 Thessalonians 2, where the man of lawlessness physically seats himself in the temple declaring himself God. That's a specific man doing a specific thing in a specific place.

I'd also gently push back on the internal logic — if the holy place is our hearts, and the abomination is already dwelling there, that leaves us in a pretty hopeless position with no defined resolution or endpoint.

Your application about church worldliness may well be valid — but I think it's riding on an interpretation the text doesn't support. What are your thoughts?

I agree that Jesus was definitely describing a physical temple. The urgency that He says must be heeded follows a specific event. I am in full agreement that the church has yielded its authority, but this gradual erosion has merely set the stage for the acceptance of the antichrist and his rise to power. Also, it is documented that the plans for the new temple have already been drafted and many of the preparations for the rebuilding of the temple have been made. Current political events and geographic and social restructuring of nations are indicators (not proof, but indicators nonetheless) that major changes are imminent and could lead to the abomination of desolation described by Jesus.

 

[farmerjoe]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom
The future is in God. And unless God shows you exactly what the future is, do not claim to know it

Sometimes I wonder why I tolerate people like you. You show me where a future temple is said to be rebuilt.

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom
The future is in God. And unless God shows you exactly what the future is, do not claim to know it

Thanks for your detailed explanation. Now go back to school.

 

[farmerjoe]

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom
The future is in God. And unless God shows you exactly what the future is, do not claim to know it

One more thing big-guy. Everybody believes God SHOWS them stuff and that they possess the truth but for some reason we all disagree. I didn't claim to know the truth. I simply stated that there's no future temple coming because Daniel 9 says the temple remains desolate until the consummation. God shows us little to NOTHING! We have to search and seek it.

If you're having trouble coping - get out of the conversation. AND, there's no such New Testament book called REVELATIONS!

 

[MedicBravo]

Typing in all caps doesn't make anyone right.
God didn't give a step-by-step instruction manual for Revelation.

1. The Antichrist Makes a Covenant With Israel​

The verse most often cited is from the book of Book of Daniel.
Daniel 9:27

“He shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering…”

Interpretation​

For sacrifices to stop, sacrifices must first be happening.
Animal sacrifices historically occurred only at the temple in Jerusalem.

Strength of evidence​

• Temple implied: ~70% inference
• Third Temple explicitly stated: 0%

The passage implies a functioning sacrificial system, which strongly suggests a temple.

2. Someone Sits in the “Temple of God”​

From Second Epistle to the Thessalonians.


2 Thessalonians 2:3–4

“The man of lawlessness… opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god… so that he sits in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.”

Interpretation​

Many futurist scholars argue:

• If someone sits inside a temple, a temple must exist.

Other theologians argue:

• “Temple” could mean the church (spiritual metaphor).

Strength of evidence​

• Future physical temple: ~60% inference
• Symbolic church interpretation: ~40%

3. The “Abomination of Desolation”​

Jesus references Daniel’s prophecy in the Gospel of Matthew.
Matthew 24:15

“When you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel standing in the holy place…”

Interpretation​

Two main views:

1. Fulfilled in AD 70 (Roman destruction of Jerusalem)
2. Future event in a rebuilt temple

Strength of evidence​

• Future temple implication: ~50%

---

4. Temple in Revelation​

From the Book of Revelation.
Revelation 11:1–2

“Rise and measure the temple of God and the altar and those who worship there.”

Interpretation​

Again two views:

• Literal temple in Jerusalem (futurist)
• Symbolic temple representing believers

Strength of evidence​

• Future temple: ~50–60%

---

5. “Peace Deal” Interpretation​

The idea that the Antichrist brings global religious peace is mostly derived from a verse about false peace.
From First Epistle to the Thessalonians.
1 Thessalonians 5:3

“While people are saying, ‘Peace and safety,’ destruction will come on them suddenly…”

Interpretation​

Some prophecy teachers connect this with a political peace agreement in the Middle East.

Strength of evidence​

• General false peace: ~70%
• Specific interfaith agreement: ~20%

The Bible never explicitly says he unites Islam, Judaism, and Christianity.

---

6. The Antichrist Deceives the World​

From the Book of Revelation.
Revelation 13:3–4

“All the world marveled and followed the beast.”

This supports the idea of global influence or admiration, but again does not describe a specific religious treaty.

Strength of evidence​

• Global influence: ~80%
• Interfaith peace: ~30%

---

Overall Evidence Summary​

Claim	Direct Verse	Confidence
An antichrist figure exists	Daniel, Revelation, Thessalonians	90%
Stops sacrifices	Daniel 9:27	90%
Temple exists when he acts	implied	60–70%
Third Temple rebuilt	not stated	~50% inference
Global deception	Revelation 13	80%
Unites religions	not stated	~20–30%

---

Bottom line
The commonly taught scenario:

1. Antichrist brokers peace
2. Temple rebuilt
3. Sacrifices restart
4. Antichrist desecrates temple

is mostly built from combining passages, not from a single clear statement.
Roughly speaking:

• Direct biblical statements: ~40–50%
• Inference / extrapolation: ~50–60%

Christians must be in the Bible daily and far more than the 15 minutes excuse.

Why This Matters for the Temple Question​

If the “times of the Gentiles” must end before certain prophecies unfold, then:
A rebuilt temple would likely require:

1. Jewish control of the Temple Mount
2. Permission to rebuild
3. A political agreement

This is why prophecy teachers often talk about a future peace agreement.
But again — that’s logical extrapolation, not an explicit verse.

Strength of inference​

Temple rebuilding after Gentile control ends:
~60–70% inference.

The ONLY date any of us should be concerned about is the day which you are with the Lord in Heaven (you've died before Jesus comes back) OR

"“I go to prepare a place for you… I will come again and receive you to myself, that where I am, there you may be also.” - John 14:2-3

 

[farmerjoe]

1. The Antichrist Makes a Covenant With Israel​

The verse most often cited is from the book of Book of Daniel.
Daniel 9:27

I don't have time to go over all your stuff.

Here's the passage. What you're implying is that the 'with many' refers to Israel.

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye have destroyed common sense eschatology with their dispensational sensational nonsense.

Someone Sits in the “Temple of God”

Here's the KJV...

Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

If you were to do good homework, you'd look at this in the interlinear.

Most people have the incorrect interpretation of the two previous verses, aka 'the apostasy', so this gets challenging.

Here's a link for you. NOTICE how the word GOD is sometimes capitalized and sometimes it's not.

https://scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/2th2.pdf

 

[farmerjoe]

The antichrist doesn't deceive the world. He only deceives those within his 10/7 alliance of Arab/Islamic nations.

 

[B-A-C]

Sue,
Thank you for your response, and I appreciate the discussion. I want to focus on one specific point though, because I think it's important.

You mentioned that much of Revelation is spiritual, metaphorical, and hyperbolic — and I agree that some of it is. But here's what I find interesting: John himself tells us when he's being figurative. In Revelation 1, describing the risen Christ, he writes that His eyes were like a flame of fire, His feet were like burnished bronze, His voice was like the sound of many waters. John uses simile markers consistently and deliberately when the description is figurative. He knows how to say "like."

Then we get to the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21. And the "like" disappears. The wall is jasper. The city is pure gold. The foundations are specific stones listed by name. The gates are pearl. John doesn't say the city was like gold or appeared to be jasper. He simply states what it is — and then an angel measures it with a measuring rod, recording precise dimensions: 12,000 stadia on each side, 144 cubits of wall thickness.

You don't measure metaphors.

So the question isn't whether Revelation contains figurative language — it clearly does. The question is whether we let the text itself tell us when it's being figurative, or whether we decide that in advance and apply it selectively. John already built that signal into the text. When he means "like" he says "like." When he doesn't say "like" — as with the New Jerusalem — I think we owe the text the respect of taking it at face value.

And if the New Jerusalem is a literal physical place with literal physical dimensions and literal physical materials — then the One whose throne is in it (Revelation 22:3) is not a spirit either.

The heart is the Holy Place?
"I'd genuinely like to see that. Can you show me the verse where the Bible specifically identifies the human heart as the holy place or holy of holies? I'm not asking to be difficult — if the text says it, I want to see it. But I can't accept 'the Bible says so' as a citation."

 

[farmerjoe]

I'm in total disagreement with Sue on this.

The holy place in Mathew 24:15 is not the Holy of Holies but simply the surrounding area of it as described in Strong's #5117.

1) place, any portion or space marked off, as it were from surrounding space
a) an inhabited place, as a city, village, district
a place (passage) in a book
2) metaph.
a) the condition or station held by one in any company or assembly
opportunity, power, occasion for actingÿ

If Jesus in Mathew 24:15 or the author of Acts in Acts 21:28 wanted to indicate the "holy of holies" they would have used this word...bold is mine.

If Jesus wanted to indicate the "Holy of Holies" in Mathew 24:15 He would have used this word...

2665. katapetasma kat-ap-et'-as-mah from a compound of 2596 and a congener of 4072; something spread thoroughly, i.e. (specially) the door screen
(to the Most Holy Place) in the Jewish Temple:--vail.
http://www.eliyah.co...on&isindex=2665

There are three different 'holy places' in the New Testament. One of them is one word, 'Holyplace' but I'm unable to access that file to explain this further.

 

[MedicBravo]

When anyone sees and experiences something, especially here, they use what they can best describe it.
It's why the fruit Adam and Eve at was an "apple" yet there's no description.
An apple know to almost every living thing on the planet.

There's explanation of what is and is not.
"7 Lampstands are the 7 churches." - Easy peasy.
7 Starts - Angels of the churches
Great Prostitute - While many 'females' are that they are not great. It is the corrupt religious and political system.
Dragon - Satan
Best - Anti-God political power.
If another Disciple had written it we'd have a different but lkely similar Revelation.

 

[Bill]

Sue,
Thank you for your response, and I appreciate the discussion. I want to focus on one specific point though, because I think it's important.

You mentioned that much of Revelation is spiritual, metaphorical, and hyperbolic — and I agree that some of it is. But here's what I find interesting: John himself tells us when he's being figurative. In Revelation 1, describing the risen Christ, he writes that His eyes were like a flame of fire, His feet were like burnished bronze, His voice was like the sound of many waters. John uses simile markers consistently and deliberately when the description is figurative. He knows how to say "like."

Then we get to the New Jerusalem in Revelation 21. And the "like" disappears. The wall is jasper. The city is pure gold. The foundations are specific stones listed by name. The gates are pearl. John doesn't say the city was like gold or appeared to be jasper. He simply states what it is — and then an angel measures it with a measuring rod, recording precise dimensions: 12,000 stadia on each side, 144 cubits of wall thickness.

You don't measure metaphors.

So the question isn't whether Revelation contains figurative language — it clearly does. The question is whether we let the text itself tell us when it's being figurative, or whether we decide that in advance and apply it selectively. John already built that signal into the text. When he means "like" he says "like." When he doesn't say "like" — as with the New Jerusalem — I think we owe the text the respect of taking it at face value.

And if the New Jerusalem is a literal physical place with literal physical dimensions and literal physical materials — then the One whose throne is in it (Revelation 22:3) is not a spirit either.

The heart is the Holy Place?
"I'd genuinely like to see that. Can you show me the verse where the Bible specifically identifies the human heart as the holy place or holy of holies? I'm not asking to be difficult — if the text says it, I want to see it. But I can't accept 'the Bible says so' as a citation."

May Jesus fill us with his love and wisdom

From what I've experienced with scripture, It's a combination of spiritual and physical. We can see this in the simple exercise of Jesus healing a person, the man who is let down through the roof. The first part Jesus heals the person's soul by saying your sins are forgiven, and the second part is the physical healing.

We see this in much of scripture, how is something is represented in a spiritual manner, and then also is shown in a physical way. We see this when we talk about the blessing of the bread and the wine with Jesus.

Jesus talks about receiving him, and we received Jesus in our hearts. But when we talk about the blessing of the bread and the wine we also receive him in the bread and the wine. As Jesus states do this in remembrance of me.

Jesus talks about I will destroy this Temple and in 3 days rebuild it. Not only is that metaphorical and spiritual in the sense of the new beginning of Christianity but he's also talking about himself the reality the physical.

So we can see numerous experiences of both the spiritual and the physical walking hand in hand. So when we look at Revelations we have to look at it in both the spiritual and in the physical that things that seem to be only something spiritual is actually something that will happen in a physical sense as well.

 

[Gerbolski]

2Th 2:3-4
(3) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This is talking about a single man, and this one man, one day will go into a physical temple, and exalt himself as God.

No man can enter into a spiritual temple, and no man is omnipresent.

 

[B-A-C]

From what I've experienced with scripture, It's a combination of spiritual and physical. We can see this in the simple exercise of Jesus healing a person, the man who is let down through the roof. The first part Jesus heals the person's soul by saying your sins are forgiven, and the second part is the physical healing.

Usually it's pretty easy to tell which is which, but that isn't the point I was making rreally. I agree somethings a spiritual and some things are physical, and some thngs.. are metaphors for the other.. no problem with any of that.. not arguing it at all.
But my concern is making up things that sound spiritual and scriptural...

"Our heart is the Holy place". that sounds cooll, but is it Biblical?

I could say "the dog house in my back yard is the holy place". and maybe some people might even agree, but is it Biblical?
..or just something I made up that sounded spiritual.