I forgot to add, that washing away of sin by the Blood is in the spirit realm, where our actual salvation takes place in spirit.
The baptism in Fire
- Thread starter A servant of the Kings
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I forgot to add, that washing away of sin by the Blood is in the spirit realm, where our actual salvation takes place in spirit.
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' ... ... even as Christ also loved the church,
and gave Himself for it;
That He might sanctify and cleanse it
with the washing of water by the word,
That He might present it to Himself a glorious church,
not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish.'
(Eph 5:25-27)
and gave Himself for it;
That He might sanctify and cleanse it
with the washing of water by the word,
That He might present it to Himself a glorious church,
not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing;
but that it should be holy and without blemish.'
(Eph 5:25-27)
Butch5
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The bath of regeneration.
So that no one will be confused on the washing we're talking about, it's the Blood that washes away sin.
1 John 1:7
"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."
The washing in Eph. 5 is the washing of the WORD, the Scripture. Reading the Word washing and purifies as water washes and purifies the body.
A servant of the Kings
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This is beacause the word on earth is light in heaven
So giving word from God on earth, is giving light in heaven
That is how Jesus was, and is the Light of the world, bringing the Word to the world
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John was speaking to people who are already Christians. He was speaking about coming to Christ.
However, just out of curiosity. How exactly does the blood wash away sins?
A servant of the Kings
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Then state your warning clearly, and why you give it
Such warnings are no tit for tat
They must be given if we know of danger:
8If I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ but you do not speak out to dissuade him from his way, then that wicked man will die in his iniquity, yet I will hold you accountable for his blood. 9But if you warn the wicked man to turn from his way, and he does not turn from it, he will die in his iniquity, but you will have saved your life.
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If you've been reading my posts you'd know it.
However, God said that to Ezekiel for reason. It's not a statement to all of Christendom
A servant of the Kings
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I have no idea what you are talking about, and as long as I do not it is not a seriously meant warning
Butch5
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Are you familiar with Platonic thought?
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I have no doubt.
It's a spiritual act performed by God. The question is not really how, but why.
Lev. 17:11
"For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul."
God has demanded the blood of man (death) for his sin. Only the blood of man can pay for that sin.
Jesus Christ took our place on that Cross and died for us, paying our sin debt by shedding His blood for us.
He came as man as He had to come as a man to shed man's blood, His own, that we could come back into fellowship with God.
God demanded a perfect sacrifice in blood, no man is perfect, so God sent His perfect Son to do it for us.
I haven't got a clue, Butch. I have no time for anything else.
I have my hands full with the Scripture. I have studied it all my adult life and have only scratched the surface.
It's all I want to do! Outside the Scripture I'm as dumb as a box of rocks, I admit that.
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No, the question is how? You keep saying things without explaining how they can be. You've used the word spiritual a lot. Can you tell me what you mean by it? What is "spiritual"
Right, the penalty for sin is death. All men die. Thus they earn the wages for their sin. But there's a problem here. I thought sins were forgiven. How then did Jesus pay our sin debt? What is a sin debt? I've not seen that in Scripture.
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You should look into it. It's infiltrated the faith. It started way back in the early times and just keeps on. The reason I asked is because quite a few of the doctrines you're espousing are actually Platonic in origin. A lot of this "spiritual" stuff we hear in churches is actually based in Platonism and not Scripture. The easiest way to understand Scripture is to understand it from a real-world view. Many Christians don't do that. Many have been taught to see through a Platonic lens, so they always look at Scripture from that point of view. The problem is that Platonism is not compatible with Scripture. That's one of the big reasons we see some many different beliefs among Christians. Everyone is trying to make erroneous beliefs fit the Scriptures and it doesn't work.
The Bible is Israel-centric. If one understands it from that point it all fits together. The problem is that many try to understand it from a Platonic viewpoint.
Col. 2:14
" Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;"
The NLT says it this way,
"He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross."
This is the sin debt He paid for us on the Cross. I have a feeling you don't understand all this.
Let me explain it for you in short form.
John told us that Christ died for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2
"And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."
Christ is the satisfaction to God for the sins of the whole world. In other words, he has paid the sin debt of all men.
When Christ died on the Cross the sins of the whole world were placed on Him.
The sin's of man, past, present and future we paid for by Christ when He died on that Cross.
Here's the condition of salvation, unless we repent from the heart believing He did this for us, we will not reap the benefits of the debt He paid.
You also need to know why Christ had to die on the Cross.
The most vilest of sin had to be paid by the most vilest form of death known to man of that day.
He suffered to the maximum degree for the most horrific sins committed by man.
Is there any Love greater than this?
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I understand it quite well. Penal atonement is a product of the Reformation. For the first thousand years of church history they didn't know anything about a sin debt. The idea of satisfying God's wrath came about around 1100 AD from a Catholic theologian name Anselm of Canterbury. He instituted what is known as the Satisfaction model of the Atonement. This is what the Reformers had. They tweaked it into the Penal model that many beleive today.
The problem is that it doesn't fit with Scripture. The wages of sin is death. Men sin, men die. Scripture is replete with statements about God forgiving sin. If that sin is paid for it's not forgiven. The two are mutually exclusive. Either sin is paid for or forgiven. It can't be both.
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You can't have it both ways. If Jesus us the satisfaction for the whole world, then the whole world is saved. You have universal salvation. Of course that creates some problems with Scripture.
That begs the question, how can Jesus take away the sin of the world and not leave us with Universal salvation? The answer is easy. But, it isn't found in the doctrine of Penal Atonement. As long as a person holds to Penal Atonement they won't be able to reconcile the Scriptures.
