The eternal word

[UncleD]

I have noticed that some of the newer versions of the Bible leave out a very important verse 1 John 5:7 which reads in the KJV For there are three that bear record in heaven the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. The eternal Word was in heaven, came to earth to pay for the sins of mankind, and then went back to heaven. Gods Word never returns to God void. It accumplishes that which God wanted, either salvation or judgement it has accumplished it.

Another verse that works hand in hand with 1John 5:7 is John 1:1 In the beginning was the word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, He was in the beginning with God,. All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him, nothing came into being that has come into being.

John 1:14. And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.

1John 5:8 continues from verse 7, And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the Blood: and these three agree in one. Jesus paid the price for our sins and it is a witness on the earth an undeniable fact!

The fight for the removal of Jesus from the earth is mentioned in Psalm 2 and God laughs at them. Darkness cannot overcome light (lies cannot overcome truth) the truth will judge all hearts. He came and went, the Israelites wanted a man to rule over them here on earth, but He went back to heaven and God has placed Him over all thrings. The Gospel call all to come under His rule and Lordship but Satan does not like this and wants all to worship him IS 14:12 onwards. He wants to rule from Jerusalem and will rule from there for 7 years but Jesus will overcome him, return and take His rightful place as King over all the earth for a 1000 years.... Just as the nations came together with Goliath to destroy Israel and David came as the annointed and overcame Goliath so will all nations rise against Israel under the Anti-Christ (instead of Christ) and Jesus will return and overcome him and all who look upon Him will mourn.... Amen

 

[Chad]

Which translations are you referring to? It's a good idea to mention which ones if you're going to claim they're missing the verse. I searched multiple ones and the verse is there in each one.

Examples

So there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One; and there are three witnesses on the earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree [are in unison; their testimony coincides]. (1 John 5:7, 8 AMP)

Jesus—the Divine Christ! He experienced a life-giving birth and a death-killing death. Not only birth from the womb, but baptismal birth of his ministry and sacrificial death. And all the while the Spirit is confirming the truth, the reality of God’s presence at Jesus’ baptism and crucifixion, bringing those occasions alive for us. A triple testimony: the Spirit, the Baptism, the Crucifixion. And the three in perfect agreement. (1 John 5:6-8 MSG)

For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. (1 John 5:7, 8 NIV)

 

[UncleD]

Which translations are you referring to? It's a good idea to mention which ones if you're going to claim they're missing the verse. I searched multiple ones and the verse is there in each one.

Examples

So there are three witnesses in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One; and there are three witnesses on the earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree [are in unison; their testimony coincides]. (1 John 5:7, 8 AMP)

Jesus—the Divine Christ! He experienced a life-giving birth and a death-killing death. Not only birth from the womb, but baptismal birth of his ministry and sacrificial death. And all the while the Spirit is confirming the truth, the reality of God’s presence at Jesus’ baptism and crucifixion, bringing those occasions alive for us. A triple testimony: the Spirit, the Baptism, the Crucifixion. And the three in perfect agreement. (1 John 5:6-8 MSG)

For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. (1 John 5:7, 8 NIV)

Reply

Thanks for your reply it is good to test everything

The NASB gives verse 7 as - And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth. Verse 8 then reads For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement. In the OKJV 1Jn 5:6-8 say - 6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood; these three agree in one.

The NASB then reads as follows - 6 This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. 7 And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth. 8 For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood: and the three are in agreement.

So the NASB leaves out one verse that the OKJV has - 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. The NIV leaves this verse out too.

I was not Really gunning on the versions because I use them as well for simpler English but gave an exposition on the verse that is in the OKJV to highlight its importance. I have not got Hebrew and Greek behind me so I use the OKJV for study purposes and the others for easier English if they match. The Lord has used this verse in the OKJV to amplify what is said in John 1:1 ... and the Word was with God .... Not only here He was with God in the beginning in eternity when God created the heavens and the earth Gen 1:1 In verse 3 we see God says Let there be light .... These are not the Sun, or moon or stars because these were created later in verse 14. Typologically Jesus Christ must be the beginning of the new life in Him (Ex 12:1 - beginning of Months referring to the passover) and He is the light that lights up our path. The Word which is alive and active to dividing soul and spirit, bone and marrow, it judges the thoughts in the intents of the heart (Heb 4:12) - the living Word that became flesh, made His dwelling amongst us, was crucified for our sins and went back to the Father in heaven. The water, the blood and the Spirit of God testify to this. This is what John was explaining in 1Jn 5. Remember the Holy Spirit was given after Jesus went back to the Father. Jn 14:16-23 emphasis on verse 16-17. Water baptism Rom 6:1-6. Jesus Blood shed He said it is finished Jn 19:30. The Blood of the sacrifice shed an historical fact and undeniable.

 

[will]

Any research done on why the verse is omitted?

I checked in the ESV translation, it's missing too.

 

[UncleD]

Any research done on why the verse is omitted?

I checked in the ESV translation, it's missing too.

REPLY

Thanks for the reply, no I have done no research on why it is omitted. But I will ask questions and search the internet maybe there will be someone who has done the reseach.

 

[DHC]

REPLY

Thanks for the reply, no I have done no research on why it is omitted. But I will ask questions and search the internet maybe there will be someone who has done the reseach.

Hello UncleD.

The verse (1John 5:7)) you referred to in your post is called the 'Comma Johanneum' in academic circles.

Erasmus produced a number of editions of the Greek New Testament and these are called the 'Textus Receptus'.

The Greek translation used in the English translation of the KJV was the Textus Receptus.

Erasmus produced I think three editions of the Textus Receptus in the 1500's.

In the ongoing debate over the inclusion or exclusion of the Comma Johanneum, Erasmus is
the primary person of interest.

Biblical translation techniques were in their infancy at the time of Erasmus it should be noted.

Erasmus only had access to a handful of New Testament manuscripts to aid in his production
of the Greek New Testament or Textus Receptus.

What I find very interesting about the three editions of the Textus Receptus that Erasmus compiled.
Is that the first two editions omitted the Comma Johanneum! The verse in question was only included
in the third edition of the Textus Receptus.

I have no interest in this debate as it is ultimately impossible to know whether it should be included or
excluded. As far as I am concerned it makes not a lick of difference to the deity of Christ.

For reasons that escape my understanding there does appear to be two well defined groups that
disagree with each other over the Comma Johanneum.

 

[james1523]

This is clear evidence that God's Word is not perfect: two different manuscripts. Only one can be right. Only one can rightfully claim to be THE Word of God.

 

[JustAskin]

DHC said:

...
I have no interest in this debate as it is ultimately impossible to know whether it should be included or
excluded. As far as I am concerned it makes not a lick of difference to the deity of Christ

DHC, you are right not to have no interest in this debate.

IT IS NOT a debate.

‘Christ’ means ‘ANOINTED [one]’. God is not an ‘Anointed [one]’. It was GOD who anointed Jesus to become ‘the Christ’:

• ‘Behold my SERVANT whom I have chosen, I will put MY SPIRIT UPON HIM and he will fulfil all my desires’ (paraphrased from Isaiah 42:1)
• ‘Deity’ is no ones SERVANT

Only ignorance or blind attachment to attempted trinity belief reserves this verse as true. It has LONG LONG LONG been ESTABLISHED that the verse is A FALSE ADDITION...

The OP asked why it wasn’t found... simple: because anyone who has any inkling ACCEPTS that it is false.

It was ADDED in an attempt to JUSTIFY TRINITY BELIEF...

Anyone who loves justice and righteousness understands that if something is true then NO ADDITION (particularly so obviously false) is ever needed - yet trinity chose to add it because trinity ideology cannot be proved by scriptures.

It is similar to the claim that Jesus told the ‘good’ thief on the cross that he would see him in paradise THAT DAY.... no! Jesus’ spirit ‘went to rest with GOD’. AND, no one is resurrected until the judgement days.

What Jesus said was that he had already judged the thief and forgiven him his sins ... and, as he would die THAT DAY, he could never sin again, THEREFORE that man would not need to be further judged on judgement day BUT WOULD GO DIRECTLY TO PARADISE... (note: Not Heaven.... Earthly Paradise!).

Thus, Jesus said, ‘I TELL YOU, THIS DAY, You will be in paradise with me!’
‘This day I tell you [your sins are forgiven and have now been judged worthy] - you will be in paradise with me on judgement day!’

We all need to be mindful of trinitarian additions and alterations that are pointed at attempting to justify the false ideology of trinity.

I say again, if trinity were truth then these incredulous additions and alterations WOULD NOT BE NEEDED. The claim that the translators added them in an attempt to make the scriptures CLEARER just DO NOT WASH!!

The last chapter and last verses of the book of Revelation STATES that there would be dire consequences for those who add or remove from the scriptures.... did Trinitarians not notice this !!!WARNING!!!

 

[UncleD]

To JustAskin

It is amazing I posted this in 2013. Now I am not being contentious so do not get me wrong but the attitude behind this post you have given definitely lends to being contentious. So, I do not know how it got passed the moderators. Either you are deceived or being deceived but if you know the God of the Bible you will know that He existed long before you or anyone else and since you doubt Him you need to look at where you stand. I hope this will not be moderated out since I must stand on what is the truth Jude 1:3.

There is no term in the Bible, that I am aware of, that mentions the word Trinity but reading the scriptures through you will soon see that there are three distinct persons in absolutely perfect unity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit and in this unity they are eternally ONE.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Scripture had no origin other than from God. If it comes from God, who is eternal, the word of God is therefore eternal and will not and cannot be changed by anyone, which includes you and I.

Right from the very first chapter of the Bible we see that there is definitely God is three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

God = Elohim a plural word in the Hebrew (I am not a Hebrew or Greek scholar but I can read)

(Strongs definition) H430

אֱלֹהִים

'ĕlôhı̂ym

el-o-heem'

Plural of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but specifically used (in the plural thus, especially with the article) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative: - angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.

Total KJV occurrences: 2601

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. This verse then says that there is the Spirit of God … This cannot be denied since it is there written for everyone to read and take note of.

Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

So now God says let there be light, an amazing set of scriptures since the sun, moon and stars only came in Genesis 1:14-19. Therefore, this can only be the Word of God who became flesh. In the Garden of Eden He was known as the Tree of Life from which Adam and Eve were to eat. John the Apostle gives an exposition on Genesis 1:1-5 as follows:

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God. Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Joh 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. Joh 1:6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. Joh 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. Joh 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. Joh 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Joh 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So, again we now see the Word of God became flesh. Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Jesus was God in the flesh. God is Spirit and put on flesh.

So He was with God in the beginning which lends to the KJV 1 John 5:7 1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. Again, in absolute perfect unity – as ONE.

So now we do not only have God but the Holy Spirit and the Word who became flesh too and we know Him as Jesus Christ, the Son of God. We see Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Being the Lamb of God who would die for the sins of the world those who believe in Him will be separated from the darkness hence Gen 1:4.

Gen 1:14-19 gives credibility to what I am saying above since in metaphor the sun is symbolic of the Son who shines His light into the spiritual darkness. One cannot look into the sun so too one cannot, in the flesh, look on the Son of God in all His glory in heaven. Those who are not in Christ will be cast out into the outer darkness by the Light. Those who believe in the finished work of Jesus Christ become light and one with Him who is the light Read Ephesians. The moon reflects the light of the sun into a dark world so too do the true believers in Christ reflect His glory into a spiritually dark world. The stars are symbolic of angels and departed saints who still navigate sinners to Christ. Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Next:

Then when we go to Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

In His image and likeness also means that we are created in three too. We have a body, soul and a spirit. We see this in the tabernacle too which is a picture of Christ. We have the outer court, the The Holy Place and the Holy of Holies. These three refer to body, soul and spirit. The outer court is what comes into contact with the world -our bodies, the Holy Place is the soul (mind, will and emotions our intellect) and the Holy of Holies is where our spirit is -also known as our heart - and where God by His Spirit resides. in our inner most being, the Holy of Holies, a sanctuary. Our spirit is united again with Gods Spirit and we become one with God. The church is the temple of God and God resides there by His Spirit Eph 4; 1 Cor 6:19.

Now, I have only touched on a few, I am not a great scholar of the Word but this is fundamental teaching and every true disciple should know it. Even in Matthew 28:18-20 we see Jesus referring to the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit.

Even Paul the Apostle in 1 Cor 2 refers to the Holy Spirit, Jesus said Himself that he would return to the Father and would send the Holy Spirit John 14. So now even here we see Father, Son and Holy Spirit. As Father, Son and Holy Spirit were involved in the creation so too are they involved in the new creation 2 Cor 5:17 we are new creations, 2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

When Jesus ascended into heaven He fulfilled His promise and sent the Holy Spirit as seen in Acts 2 again two distinct persons. The Holy Spirit and the Word of God are inseparable and both work together to draw sinners back to God through the Gospel. Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Joh 16:15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Here again we see Father, Son and Holy Spirit being mentioned.

So, if you want to classify me as something then rather classify me as one telling the truth since you do not believe in God in three persons I doubt that you genuinely know Him. Again, I am not being contentious but you accused me of being a Trinitarian so now it seems you are out to be contentious yourself. Anyone knows that if you write something in capitals it means you are shouting out loudly at the person it is intended for. I have not shouted once in the above and I have only emphasised certain parts of the text, keep that in mind.

 

[JustAskin]

Hi, are you saying you are not trinitarian?

You say that Jesus and the Holy Spirit work together to bring people back to God...

Who is [the] God that they work to bring people back to? Is it the third trinity member: aka, the Father?

Jesus said that the Father is greater than he. I find it hard to believe that someone claimed (by you) to be equal to another is stating himself that he is not so, but is in fact less than the other (his words). Whom am I to believe: Jesus, or you?

The Holy Spirit receives from Jesus: ‘It will take of what is mine and give it to you’. I find it difficult to believe that in an co-equality, claimed by you, that there is disparity of ownership.

Jesus is given all that he has... The Father was pleased that in him the fullness of his (fathers) glory should dwell. This, of course, was the event during Jesus’ baptism when the Holy Spirit was poured out onto Jesus: came down on him in the manner like that of a dove landing on a branch (like a light fluttering breeze)... this the Father said, ‘this is my son in whom I am well pleased’, and ‘This day I have become to you, a Father, and you have become to me, a Son’.

And then, ‘filled with the Holy Spirit of God, he was led into the wilderness to be tempted by Satan’.
See, having the power of Almighty God, the Father (whom no one has ever seen ... not heard his voice nor seen his form) put on him, he was tempted as to whether he would mis-use that power.

Can I ask what Jesus was then, before he had the power of the power of the Father put on him (filled with the fullness of the glory of the Father)?

Jesus is the second Adam. In fact, even the last Adam. Why second? ... why last?

How was Adam created? Dust of the earth with a spirit to enliven it? True?
Is this the birth of the first Adam?

So why was there a second/last Adam?

The first sins, and another is brought up to replace him? Acts 1:20... “Peter continued, “This was written in the book of Psalms, where it says, ‘Let his home become desolate, with no one living in it.’ It also says, ‘Let someone else take his position.’”
This refers to the fall of Adam... and the ‘someone else’ is Jesus.
And, to emphasise this:

• Cain, the first, sinned and Seth was brought up to replace him
• Ishmael... Jacob
• Esau..., Isaac
• Rueben... Joseph
• Eliab... David
• Amnon, Adonijah.... Solomon
• Adam... Jesus

So, the birth of Jesus was because the sin of Adam... a second Adam... NOT born of the seed of a man, but of a woman.
The sin is in the seed of the sinful man. So a second Adam could not be from ‘Joseph’ , Mary’s betrothed.. Notice that Adam’s body was created from the dust of the earth.. inert and lifeless... it was only when the breath of life (the Spirit of life) was blown into it that it became a Living Soul.
So, the seed, the egg, of a woman, expelled on a monthly cycle, is also inert and lifeless... until it is enlivened by an active *****. And so: ‘The Holy Spirit’ overshadowed Mary, and the child born thus, ‘shall be Holy, and be called The Son of The God Most High’.
The link: Both ‘Son of the God most high’ (Adam: Luke 3:38) sinless men, human Beings in whom there is no sin, pure and holy. ... of course, we know that later, Adam, the first Adam, sinned.

And, ‘Son’, what is its meaning?
Well, a Spirit does not procreate. It does not produce of its own kind! But it can create! Even Spirit Angels can create a body... but it cannot put another spirit in it to enliven it... so those demon angels put themselves, as spirit, to enliven it and now procreate with human women (So now you have the answer to whom God said, ‘Let us make man...’ Notice the image was ‘God’s image’... and image means ‘personality: intelligence, love, compassion, ingenuity, wisdom, pride, vanity, mastership (husbandry), nurture...etc. The angels created the body of Adam, but God put the spirit into it to enliven it.
So, the image is the ‘Son’... and as ‘Son’ Adam carries out all the works that his spiritual Father (Father: ‘He who creates; He who brings into being; he who gives life to; he who is the head’) commanded him... and Son: ‘He who does exactly what the Father commands him to do’.

Notice here that ‘Son’ is not necessarily a procreated offspring.And certainly, Adam was not a procreation of God... not a Spirit from Spirit being... but a creation: human (flesh) from Spirit. A procreation is ‘Flesh from flesh’. But there is a Spiritual Son...
In Philemon 1, we are told of a runaway slave, Onesimus, who [Apostle] Paul adopted as a ‘Son’ while in chains in prison. Onesimus so wonderfully carried out every aspect of what Paul taught him and showed him to do that Paul called him ‘Son’... ‘Spiritual Son’...
And remember those words of Almighty God, the Father, to Jesus Christ: ‘This day I have become to you, a Father, and you have become to me, a Son’ ... a Spiritual Son ... a Spiritual Father!!! (Maybe this is where trinity creed got the false idea that God procreated a son!! (‘Very God from very God’!!??)

No! And indeed it makes a farce to say that ‘God died to save mankind’... What purpose is served by ALMIGHTY GOD dying to save his creation... he could create living man from lifeless stones...!!!

But here is something I would like you to answer:

What purpose is it that the physical world is glorified with a king who is Almighty God and rewarded for dying for its human inhabitants when it was almighty God who created the physical world? Surely, it is a human king who is rewarded for the great sacrifice - a human king to rule a human world... a glorified human king, to boot! A sinless and Holy, human king?​

 

[UncleD]

This will be my final post on the subject as I believe that between us we have spoken on what we believe. There will be no need to continue.

I will stick to what I know to be the truth. The Word became flesh as written in John 1:14. Preceding that John explains that the Word was with God in the beginning. One cannot go against that can they? And you cannot go against Genesis 1:1-5 either because as I said in the previous post John 1:1-5 is an exposition of it. Because it is written as that in the scriptures, and God inspired so, whom am I to believe?

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: Php 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Jesus Christ was the Word of God who became flesh. He was equal with God, but, made Himself of no reputation ….?

G2758

κενόω

kenoō

ken-o'-o

From G2756; to make empty, that is, (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify: - make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain.

He took upon Himself the form of a servant. Therefore, when He was baptised by John the Baptist and when He came out of the water the Holy Spirit descended upon Him. He walked with God and in the power of God not using His position in heaven here on earth. He humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even death of the cross. So, He walked as the Holy Spirit led Him even though spiritually He was the Word of God incarnate He walked and did in obedience to His Father. He only did as He saw His Father doing … (John 5:20; 8:28-29, 38; 10:30, 36-38; 12:49-50; 14:10, 24; 15:10, 15)

Joh 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. Joh 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Joh 8:23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Joh 8:25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. Joh 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. Joh 8:27 They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. Joh 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. Joh 8:29 And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him. Joh 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.

Joh 8:57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Exo_3:8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.Exo_3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Quite clearly we see that Jesus said that He is from above and that He is not of this world. He speaks to the world those things which He heard from His Father. He did nothing of His own power (even though He had that Power) but He only obeyed God as He saw what He was doing.

So, we see that He was obedient even unto death. The Word incarnate, who emptied Himself of all authority and power and went as a man to the cross to pay the price for the sins of all the people on this earth (Rom 5). He had to become a man because man would have to pay for his own sins, as it is written “without the shedding of blood there can be no forgiveness of sins. One perfect man had to die for everyone.

Having died on the cross and paid the price for our sins with His body and the shedding of His Blood, He ascended back to His rightful place at the Right hand of the Father in Heaven. He came from the Right Hand of God and He returns there.

Eph_1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Col_3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.Heb_1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;Heb_1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?Heb_8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;Heb_10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;Heb_12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

He ascended into heaven where He came from having accomplished what God wanted Him to do.

Having been born again of the Spirit of God (John 3:3-6) all true believers receive Jesus Christ into their hearts, are baptised and empowered by the Holy Spirit and God, by His Spirit leads them out into the world. They no longer worship idols or follow after the seed of the serpent but follow Christ Jesus. Their eyes are set on things above and not on the things of this world. Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Yes, Jesus gave this to His Apostles who would go into all the world and preach the gospel making disciples but it pertains to anyone who has humbled themselves before a holy God and has sought His mercy and forgiveness through Jesus Christ the Lord.

Walking in that power we also do as we see our Father doing, we are walking after the ways of Jesus Christ. One need only read Acts to see the Acts of the Apostles and the early disciples. Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:. I, being a born again believer in Jesus Christ, am taught by God and He leads me by His Spirit into all the world to preach the gospel and make disciples. How do I know the will of God because who knows the thoughts of God but the Spirit of God (1 Cor 2) and since I have the Spirit of God within me, He teaches me His will through the living and active word of God – the scriptures. As I have said before, the Holy Spirit and the Word of God are inseparable. The Holy Spirit, poured out at Pentecost, now convicts the world of sin, Righteousness and judgement (John 16:8-11). How can there be conviction for sin if there is nothing to convict with? So, the Word of God, the living and active Word of God, being preached in the power of Gods Spirit brings conviction to the heart of the sinner and draws him/her back to God. They work hand in hand. They are in separable in achieving this. Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Obviously, there are those who will harden their hearts towards the gospel and not accept it but Gods word does not return to Him void (Isaiah 55:11) either it will draw persons to God to obtain mercy through Christ or it will draw persons to God for judgement, either way man will give an account of his actions. So, anyone born again of the Spirit of God and empowered by His Spirit to preach the Word will give what God has given them to give. Even if one is led by Gods Spirit to heal a sick person for instance, that person who is healed will go away praising God because God did the healing.

To finish off I will give a few other things that those who do not believe in the triunity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit should consider:

Who was the Lord of the Host in Joshua - Jos 5:13 And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries? Jos 5:14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the LORD am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant? Jos 5:15 And the captain of the LORD'S host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so. In Exodus Moses had to take of his shoes before the burning bush because he was in the presence of God. This is a - Christophany an Old Testament manifestation of Christ.

Who was the Angel of the Lord in Judges 13? Read the whole of the chapter as I have space constraints. I will however, place these before you: Jdg 13:17 And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour? Jdg 13:18 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret? (Rev_19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. )Jdg 13:19 So Manoah took a kid with a meat offering, and offered it upon a rock unto the LORD: and the angel did wondrously; and Manoah and his wife looked on. Jdg 13:20 For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground. Jdg 13:21 But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD. Jdg 13:22 And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we have seen God. Jdg 13:23 But his wife said unto him, If the LORD were pleased to kill us, he would not have received a burnt offering and a meat offering at our hands, neither would he have shewed us all these things, nor would as at this time have told us such things as these. Again, This, again, is a Christophany - an Old Testament manifestation of Christ. The whole thing speaks of the cross and the Fire speaks of judgement. So, we see an Old Testament picture of the cross, of Jesus Christ and of the judgement He took for our sins after which He ascended into heaven. These are not angels because angels always say that they must not be worshipped.

Here are some other verses in the bible that mention the Angel of the Lord

Gen_16:10 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude. Speaks of Hagar Sarahs maid whom she gave to Abraham to bear her a child.

Gen 22:10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. Gen 22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. Gen 22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

Exo_3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. Exo 3:3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt. Exo 3:4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I. Exo 3:5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

Who was the Angel of the Lord that stood and prevented Balaam from going to curse Israel? Num 22:22 And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him. Num 22:23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way. Num 22:24 But the angel of the LORD stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side. Num 22:25 And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again. Num 22:26 And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left. Num 22:27 And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff. Num 22:28 And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times? Num 22:29 And Balaam said unto the ass, Because thou hast mocked me: I would there were a sword in mine hand, for now would I kill thee. Num 22:30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. Num 22:31 Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face. Num 22:32 And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me: Num 22:33 And the ass saw me, and turned from me these three times: unless she had turned from me, surely now also I had slain thee, and saved her alive. Num 22:34 And Balaam said unto the angel of the LORD, I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again. Num 22:35 And the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.

I could go on. What follows is a whole new subject and I am not going to go into great deal here. Jesus Christ did not come the first time to rule over Israel as King nor did He come to rule over the nations from Jerusalem this He will do at His second coming and those in Him will come with Him. He came the first time to pay for the sins of the world. The Antichrist will rule over the nations for three and a half years, a man (possessed of Satan Ezek 28; Is 14) who puts himself above God and His anointed (Psalm 2) and removes everything about God and what God has put in place, even His Word. We already see that the spirit of antichrist is working to achieve just that and it will get to a point when the sun and moon will not give their light and God will say enough -His Spirit will not strive with man forever. Metaphorically speaking the Light of Christ and the church will no longer give their light into a spiritually dark world. Then there will not be any conviction for sin anymore because God will remove His Spirit and His judgement will come … just as in the days of Noah. The ark has more to it than what meets the readers eye. In Jewish midrash it points to the coming Messiah. We do not base doctrine on it but is supports doctrine. The ark was layered with pitch inside and out and was made of Gopher wood. This points to the Blood and body of Jesus Christ. The ark was 30 cubit high – Jesus was 30 when He started His ministry. The ark was 300 cubits wide – as God purged the soldiers under Gideon to 300 so the coming tribulation will purge the church of the dead wood. There were three levels in the ark – points to Father, the Son and The Holy Spirit, all of whom work together to bring man back to God. There was only one door into the ark through which Noah, his family and the animals could enter. Jesus refers to Himself as the door in John 10:1-9. So, looking at that it points to all those in Christ who will escape the judgement of God. All those in the ark escape the judgement of God … so too all those in Christ will escape the judgements of God mentioned in the book of Revelation. They are not destined for wrath.

As I have said at the beginning, I am not going to continue in this one for one debate that is going nowhere. I will never be convinced that there is no such thing as a triune God because scripture is the only thing I will stand on and not the opinions of people. Exegetically I am right. Unfortunately, people read into the scriptures things that are not there. It is plain for all to see that there are three persons in absolute perfect unity with each other. I do not share any part of the Word of God unless I am led by the Holy Spirit to do so. If I do I would probably do eisegeses rather than exegeses which is reading things out of the scriptures that God by His Spirit gives for me to declare or preach. The glory and praise go to Him and not me. When I am weak then He is strong.