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The gifts of the Holy Spirit for the Church??

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are supposed to be used mostly for the benefit of and building up of, the church. Discernment is one gift that is not only severely lacking in much of the church, but those that do have the gift to a significant degree is rarely believed when they use it. People in this age, either want it spelled out in scripture, or some scientist to inform them of something needing discerned. Lots of Christians love scripture which is good, but without use of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, even members of the church can be easily mislead by the evil one (as it says in scripture, that even the elect will be deceived).

Does anyone have examples (specific ones) of where people of the church are using supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit? I say supernatural, because still lots of Christians that like to preach, exhort, and teach, so I don't include those.
Hello @Brad Huber,

With respect to you, I believe that the gifts of the spirit manifest during the forty year period of the Acts of the Apostles have ceased: but that love never fails. Faith, hope and love abide, but the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 13:8-13).

:)
 
I believe that the gifts of the spirit manifest during the forty year period of the Acts of the Apostles have ceased:
Not-again.png

Here we go non-Pentecostals determining what Pentecostals can and cannot do through the indwelling Holy Spirit.
 
Hello @Brad Huber,

With respect to you, I believe that the gifts of the spirit manifest during the forty year period of the Acts of the Apostles have ceased: but that love never fails. Faith, hope and love abide, but the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 13:8-13).

:)
What evidence do you have that they have ceased? I have much evidence to the contrary….both biblical and experiential.

And why would the gifts have ceased? Does the body of Christ (the church) no longer need to be built up?
 
Not-again.png

Here we go non-Pentecostals determining what Pentecostals can and cannot do through the indwelling Holy Spirit.
So true….sadly.
Attempting to limit the power and authority of the Holy Ghost through one’s own limited, fleshly, understanding of Him.

I will go a step further. I believe it grieves the Holy Spirit when people who claim to be of God, sit in churches and place earthly limits upon His Holy Spirit.

He is the same Holy Spirit He was 2000 years ago. Same power. Same authority. Nothing in Scripture says otherwise.

Cessationists are missing so much….. are missing out on so much. It would grieve me to sit in a church where the power of the Holy Spirit never manifested and where I felt spiritually powerless.
 
Hello @Brad Huber,

With respect to you, I believe that the gifts of the spirit manifest during the forty year period of the Acts of the Apostles have ceased: but that love never fails. Faith, hope and love abide, but the greatest of these is love. (1 Corinthians 13:8-13).

:)
Well that is an opinion. Do you have reason to believe this or was it what you were taught? The scripture shown talks about eventualities, not when these gifts will end.
 
Dwelling on the mudane, like "proper" terminology and not actually contributing to a serious discussion only shows the deficiency in those who are members of the church. Either answer the question using the wisdom God gives freely to all who ask, or pls leave the discussion.
Be clear to your readers , allows for understanding the questions? Hod do you know the question @vhusley asked was not of the Spirit?
 
In the 1 Corithians 12 passage the gift of tongues is in the list of gifts given for "the common good" so Paul clearly viewed it as building up the church.

We use to "word of knowledge" to describe a situation where a person is given a supernatural insight to a situation "there's a person here who is struggling with an injured left ankle..."

Words of prophecy are taken seriously in our church. If a word is given in a church service, then together we reflect on it and discern its value. Sometimes a word of prophecy doesn't pick up much response, other times there are many similar and complementary words, visions and links to scripture that indicate the Spirit is talking to us clearly. Normally, somebody who wants to speak will have a brief word with one of the pastors before stepping up.

This is all mediated through fallible humans, so imperfect - but I believe this is the right general approach.

1 Cor14 1Pursue love, and desire spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy. 2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries. 3 But he who prophesies speaks edification and exhortation and comfort to men. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied; for he who prophesies is greater than he who speaks with tongues, unless indeed he interprets, that the church may receive edification.

Without someone to interpret the msg that comes in tongues....

Your description of your church actually does sound better than what I usually see, glad you are there.
 
Be clear to your readers , allows for understanding the questions? Hod do you know the question @vhusley asked was not of the Spirit?
I was clear. I responded concerning it in post 12. Please answer the question on topic or leave the discussion please.
 
Your description of your church actually does sound better than what I usually see, glad you are there.
I'm glad to be here too. Not every church I've known matches an emphasis on spiritual gifts with clear-headed and thoughtful leadership.

Perhaps the Corinthian church had developed an unhealthy obsession with speaking in tounges leading to chaotic worship meetings. So Paul urges them to look to the other gifts.
 
I'm glad to be here too. Not every church I've known matches an emphasis on spiritual gifts with clear-headed and thoughtful leadership.

Perhaps the Corinthian church had developed an unhealthy obsession with speaking in tounges leading to chaotic worship meetings. So Paul urges them to look to the other gifts.
I too am glad to be here and thankful that you are as well. And like you, I am blessed to have found a spirit-filled church whose leadership "gets it right!"

I grew up in a denominational church. For most of my life, I must admit that my pursuit of the Lord and of righteousness was less than half-hearted. Unfortunately I was in a church filled with "good" and decent folks who preached and taught from God's Word and who at least openly claimed love the Lord. Unfortunately, the church/denomination we were in were cessationists who simply would not believe that God would still empower believers through His Holy Spirit the same way He did 2000 years ago. They taught that that kind of power and that those "miraculous gifts" were only for the Apostles and that somehow that Holy Ghost Power had ceased to work the same way in and through believers today. They hinged this belief on (the misinterpretation of) one scripture: 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 "Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. "
Everything they believed regarding spiritual gifts hinged on that one phrase "when the perfect comes."

Sadly, the church I attended, and so many still today, have become essentially powerless (spiritually speaking) because of believing a misinterpretation of that one simple phrase. What is the perfect? Even as a young man, half-heartedly seeking God, I just KNEW something was wrong. God wouldn't have given us His Holy Spirit and the power and authority that came with His baptism and indwelling and then 100 years later, just severed that access that the Holy Ghost gave. Why would He? The Gospel still needed to be spread. Churches still needed to be planted and built up. The enemy was/is still on the prowl seeking whom he may devour. That power....that access to the Gifts.....would still be needed.....until Jesus returned. Even I saw that.....felt that....believed that.

Sitting in that dead church....I felt that we were "missing something" important. I didn't know at the time what it was. I read God's Word and wanted to believe that God was still a healer......that miracles were still possible.....that people could still be miraculously delivered.....that God's people still had the authority in Jesus' Name to cast out spirits and to pray with power and authority as He had promised.

Long story short, for many years I continued on with my very comfortable "relationship" with the Lord....which really wasn't a relationship at all. My faith had not been activated......I said I believed....but really didn't have much belief that God could do anything at all to visibly change the lives of people....because I didn't see it happening....even in church....among those who were supposed to be believers. All I saw was a bunch of people who "went through the motions" of "church" and who said all the "right" things, but sadly their ACTIONS never quite lined up with what they SAID they believed about God and His Holy Spirit. It left me disheartened and confused. I'd prayed the "sinners prayer" and "asked Jesus into my heart" and was even told by everyone in church that I was "saved". I should've been "good" but I wasn't.

It took God humbling me greatly through a series of very traumatic events in my life before I became broken enough to FULLY trust Him and to TRULY seek Him and to FULLY take Him at His Word. In my broken, hopeless, and surrendered state I poured out my wretched heart before God and prayed like I'd never prayed before. I said "God, I am desperate and hopeless without You. If You are there and You are who You say You are and You will do what Your Word says you will do....find me now, and rescue me. Lead me to something higher and deeper. I want nothing else but to be right with You!" Over and over I wept, and grieved, and prayed this....alone...in the still of the night. In the midst of brokenness and turmoil 4 years ago, I found my way to a Pentecostal Church....or rather, God put a series of people and events into place that LED me there. It was there I heard a man of God preach his heart out. It was there I was pierced in my heart and convicted about what I needed to do. It was there I witnessed people (not all there, but enough) holding nothing back from God in their prayer and in their praise and worship of Him. It was there, in that Pentecostal church where I first felt the overwhelming presence and power of God's Holy Spirit....moving, working, convicting. It was there, where I realized that I'd leaned much to heavily on my "own understanding" of what the Bible said and of how God worked. It was there that I realized that I hadn't yet fully surrendered to God's will nor had I been fully obedient to His commands. It was there I saw people actually healed and instantly delivered from the bonds of affliction at the altar. It was there where I realized that Jesus didn't leave His church powerless after all. And my life has not been the same.

Long-er story short, I repented, was baptized in Jesus' name (fully submersed) and was filled with the Holy Ghost. I came up out of the water praising Him and speaking in a language I didn't understand. I knew, in that moment, that it wasn't me who was speaking, but the Spirit who was speaking through me....because I'd finally surrender my heart...and with it, that "unruly member'....my tongue, to God. I couldn't believe it.....me....raised in a Cessationist church...the biggest skeptic ever of those "crazy tongue-talkers!" But it was beautiful, and it was amazing.....and it forever changed me.

Since yielding to what I knew along God wanted me to do, my spiritual eyes have been opened to so much. God's Word has been illuminated to me in so many new, refreshing ways, and I began to see the Holy Spirit working in ways that I'd never thought possible before.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm still no better than anyone else. If there is anything good in me, it is only because of Jesus and I give Him the gory for it! I'm just a sinner saved by grace, and I'm still just a "work in progress"......but by the grace of God, I have lived long enough to truly get right with Him. And if I seem to be boasting, then like Paul, "let me boast in my weakness" and let me boast about the goodness and mercy of God.

There is STILL power in the Holy Spirit. I have seen it. I have experienced it. God's Holy Spirit STILL works through faithful believers in miraculous ways....I have seen it and experienced it. So to summarize: yes the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are still for the church today. Because many don't see them working in their churches is not an indictment of the Holy Spirit as much as it is an indictment of the state of belief within the churches today.

If one reads a bit further in that passage of scripture I referenced above, you will see that Paul wasn't saying what many have sadly come to believe he was saying.
What is "the perfect"? If we read God's word through spiritual eyes, and pray for discernment, we clearly see what it is. Paul tells us:
"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known." - 1 Corinthians 13:12
What do you think he means by "face to face"? I think if we are honest with ourselves, we know he is talking about seeing Jesus when He returns "face to face" (not the completion of biblical canon as many would have us wrongly believe).

"...but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” - Jesus from Acts 1:8
 
I too am glad to be here and thankful that you are as well. And like you, I am blessed to have found a spirit-filled church whose leadership "gets it right!"

I grew up in a denominational church. For most of my life, I must admit that my pursuit of the Lord and of righteousness was less than half-hearted. Unfortunately I was in a church filled with "good" and decent folks who preached and taught from God's Word and who at least openly claimed love the Lord. Unfortunately, the church/denomination we were in were cessationists who simply would not believe that God would still empower believers through His Holy Spirit the same way He did 2000 years ago. They taught that that kind of power and that those "miraculous gifts" were only for the Apostles and that somehow that Holy Ghost Power had ceased to work the same way in and through believers today. They hinged this belief on (the misinterpretation of) one scripture: 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 "Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. "
Everything they believed regarding spiritual gifts hinged on that one phrase "when the perfect comes."

Sadly, the church I attended, and so many still today, have become essentially powerless (spiritually speaking) because of believing a misinterpretation of that one simple phrase. What is the perfect? Even as a young man, half-heartedly seeking God, I just KNEW something was wrong. God wouldn't have given us His Holy Spirit and the power and authority that came with His baptism and indwelling and then 100 years later, just severed that access that the Holy Ghost gave. Why would He? The Gospel still needed to be spread. Churches still needed to be planted and built up. The enemy was/is still on the prowl seeking whom he may devour. That power....that access to the Gifts.....would still be needed.....until Jesus returned. Even I saw that.....felt that....believed that.

Sitting in that dead church....I felt that we were "missing something" important. I didn't know at the time what it was. I read God's Word and wanted to believe that God was still a healer......that miracles were still possible.....that people could still be miraculously delivered.....that God's people still had the authority in Jesus' Name to cast out spirits and to pray with power and authority as He had promised.

Long story short, for many years I continued on with my very comfortable "relationship" with the Lord....which really wasn't a relationship at all. My faith had not been activated......I said I believed....but really didn't have much belief that God could do anything at all to visibly change the lives of people....because I didn't see it happening....even in church....among those who were supposed to be believers. All I saw was a bunch of people who "went through the motions" of "church" and who said all the "right" things, but sadly their ACTIONS never quite lined up with what they SAID they believed about God and His Holy Spirit. It left me disheartened and confused. I'd prayed the "sinners prayer" and "asked Jesus into my heart" and was even told by everyone in church that I was "saved". I should've been "good" but I wasn't.

It took God humbling me greatly through a series of very traumatic events in my life before I became broken enough to FULLY trust Him and to TRULY seek Him and to FULLY take Him at His Word. In my broken, hopeless, and surrendered state I poured out my wretched heart before God and prayed like I'd never prayed before. I said "God, I am desperate and hopeless without You. If You are there and You are who You say You are and You will do what Your Word says you will do....find me now, and rescue me. Lead me to something higher and deeper. I want nothing else but to be right with You!" Over and over I wept, and grieved, and prayed this....alone...in the still of the night. In the midst of brokenness and turmoil 4 years ago, I found my way to a Pentecostal Church....or rather, God put a series of people and events into place that LED me there. It was there I heard a man of God preach his heart out. It was there I was pierced in my heart and convicted about what I needed to do. It was there I witnessed people (not all there, but enough) holding nothing back from God in their prayer and in their praise and worship of Him. It was there, in that Pentecostal church where I first felt the overwhelming presence and power of God's Holy Spirit....moving, working, convicting. It was there, where I realized that I'd leaned much to heavily on my "own understanding" of what the Bible said and of how God worked. It was there that I realized that I hadn't yet fully surrendered to God's will nor had I been fully obedient to His commands. It was there I saw people actually healed and instantly delivered from the bonds of affliction at the altar. It was there where I realized that Jesus didn't leave His church powerless after all. And my life has not been the same.

Long-er story short, I repented, was baptized in Jesus' name (fully submersed) and was filled with the Holy Ghost. I came up out of the water praising Him and speaking in a language I didn't understand. I knew, in that moment, that it wasn't me who was speaking, but the Spirit who was speaking through me....because I'd finally surrender my heart...and with it, that "unruly member'....my tongue, to God. I couldn't believe it.....me....raised in a Cessationist church...the biggest skeptic ever of those "crazy tongue-talkers!" But it was beautiful, and it was amazing.....and it forever changed me.

Since yielding to what I knew along God wanted me to do, my spiritual eyes have been opened to so much. God's Word has been illuminated to me in so many new, refreshing ways, and I began to see the Holy Spirit working in ways that I'd never thought possible before.
Please don't get me wrong, I'm still no better than anyone else. If there is anything good in me, it is only because of Jesus and I give Him the gory for it! I'm just a sinner saved by grace, and I'm still just a "work in progress"......but by the grace of God, I have lived long enough to truly get right with Him. And if I seem to be boasting, then like Paul, "let me boast in my weakness" and let me boast about the goodness and mercy of God.

There is STILL power in the Holy Spirit. I have seen it. I have experienced it. God's Holy Spirit STILL works through faithful believers in miraculous ways....I have seen it and experienced it. So to summarize: yes the Gifts of the Holy Spirit are still for the church today. Because many don't see them working in their churches is not an indictment of the Holy Spirit as much as it is an indictment of the state of belief within the churches today.

If one reads a bit further in that passage of scripture I referenced above, you will see that Paul wasn't saying what many have sadly come to believe he was saying.
What is "the perfect"? If we read God's word through spiritual eyes, and pray for discernment, we clearly see what it is. Paul tells us:
"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known." - 1 Corinthians 13:12
What do you think he means by "face to face"? I think if we are honest with ourselves, we know he is talking about seeing Jesus when He returns "face to face" (not the completion of biblical canon as many would have us wrongly believe).

"...but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.” - Jesus from Acts 1:8
Great to read. thanks for sharing it
 
Long-er story short, I repented, was baptized in Jesus' name (fully submersed) and was filled with the Holy Ghost. I came up out of the water praising Him and speaking in a language I didn't understand. I knew, in that moment, that it wasn't me who was speaking, but the Spirit who was speaking through me....because I'd finally surrender my heart...and with it, that "unruly member'....my tongue, to God. I couldn't believe it.....me....raised in a Cessationist church...the biggest skeptic ever of those "crazy tongue-talkers!" But it was beautiful, and it was amazing.....and it forever changed me.
Gauge.png

Thanks for sharing your testimony.
 
What evidence do you have that they have ceased? I have much evidence to the contrary….both biblical and experiential.

And why would the gifts have ceased? Does the body of Christ (the church) no longer need to be built up?
' Charity never faileth:
but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail;
whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come,
then that which is in part shall be done away.
.. When I was a child,
.... I spake as a child,
...... I understood as a child,
........ I thought as a child:
.......... but when I became a man,
............ I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:
now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three;
but the greatest of these is charity.'
(1 Corinthians 13:13)

Hello @vhusley,,

The church which is His (Christ's) body, draws sustenance from Christ it's head. It is He, Whom by joints and bands nourishes and brings increase.

Being filled with the spirit results in the body speaking in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in the heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; submitting one to another in the fear (awe) of God. (Ephesians 5:19-21)

It needs no manifestation in the flesh, for all is of the spirit.

:love:
 
Well that is an opinion. Do you have reason to believe this or was it what you were taught? The scripture shown talks about eventualities, not when these gifts will end.
Hello @Brad Huber,

Following the revelation of God given to Paul concerning the Mystery, relating to the Church which is His Body, and administered by him via the epistles written following, namely, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 & 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon towards the end of the Acts period, there is no mention of spiritual gifts.

Spiritual gifts were a foretaste of millennial blessings intended to open the eyes of Israel to the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, and to believe on Him as their Messiah and King. These blessings were partaken of by gentiles grafted into Israel for the sole purpose of making Israel jealous, and cause them to emulate believing gentiles by bringing forth the fruit of faith, believing on God's only Begotten Son, as He for Whom they looked. As God foreknew, this did not happen, and Israel went away into the darkness of unbelief for a season, and salvation was sent to the Gentiles, for they would hear it. (Acts 28:28).

:love:
 
' Charity never faileth:
but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail;
whether there be tongues, they shall cease;
whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
But when that which is perfect is come,
then that which is in part shall be done away.
.. When I was a child,
.... I spake as a child,
...... I understood as a child,
........ I thought as a child:
.......... but when I became a man,
............ I put away childish things.
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face:
now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three;
but the greatest of these is charity.'
(1 Corinthians 13:13)

Hello @vhusley,,

The church which is His (Christ's) body, draws sustenance from Christ it's head. It is He, Whom by joints and bands nourishes and brings increase.

Being filled with the spirit results in the body speaking in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in the heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ; submitting one to another in the fear (awe) of God. (Ephesians 5:19-21)

It needs no manifestation in the flesh, for all is of the spirit.

:love:
What is “the perfect” to which the Apostle Paul refers?
I’ll give you a hint….you included his clear explanation of what it is in your scripture quote…..a bit further down.
Be blessed.☺️
 
What is “the perfect” to which the Apostle Paul refers?
I’ll give you a hint….you included his clear explanation of what it is in your scripture quote…..a bit further down.
Be blessed.☺
Hello @vhusley,

The word, 'perfect', refers to 'full growth' or maturity, and not merely to a future period of time when the Lord returns - as some teach: although when we see Him then, in resurrection glory, we shall indeed be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is. We shall be conformed to the image of God's dear Son which is His will for us.
Spiritual gifts were a mark of spiritual babyhood. Paul refers to his own childhood as an illustration of this. Paul could now walk by faith and not by sight or sense, for he was full grown, mature.

Thank you

:)
 
Hello @vhusley,

The word, 'perfect', refers to 'full growth' or maturity, and not merely to a future period of time when the Lord returns - as some teach: although when we see Him then, in resurrection glory, we shall indeed be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is. We shall be conformed to the image of God's dear Son which is His will for us.
Spiritual gifts were a mark of spiritual babyhood. Paul refers to his own childhood as an illustration of this. Paul could now walk by faith and not by sight or sense, for he was full grown, mature.

Thank you

:)
With all respect, I’m not asking what “perfect” means in the context of the entire Bible….nor what it means in our experience as members of the Body of. Christ, and certainly not asking what it means from our own experience or interpretation. I’m simply asking, what was “the perfect” to which Paul was referring in this one particular passage? Because that’s all that really matters to our present discussion.

You use Paul’s very words in an attempt to show that the miraculous gifts have ceased to manifest through believers.
Paul is speaking clearly here. God’s Word is speaking to us clearly here. It clearly says these things WILL NOT cease until “the perfect” comes. In order to fully comprehend when Paul believes the Gifts will no longer be needed/seen… it therefore becomes imperative for us to understand exactly what he meant by “the perfect” in this ONE particular instance.

Well he doesn’t really hide the context in which he is using it here, because just a few verses later, he fully explains it. He also explains to us what “the partial” refers to…..the gifts of prophesy, knowledge, and tongues.

“For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.”

I don’t see how much more plain Paul could be? “When the PERFECT comes, the PARTIAL will be done away with.”

The PARTIAL being revelation and edification through the Spiritual Gifts….the PERFECT being when Jesus returns and we see Him “face-to-face” and are perfected in Him as His Word promises (Philippians 3:12)

Knowing exactly what Paul meant when he penned that phrase, “the perfect,” matters here a great deal.
I pray that God may bring you revelation and illuminate these verses to you further through this discussion.
Be blessed.
 
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