The heart of the sinner and the Saint.

[*Lavender]

Hello @God's Truth I've made this thread especially for you.
I wasn't sure of how to word the title and can change it if that's possible or make another one with how you would like it to be worded.
Hope others join in
Hello @complete
I will add others after you join in.
I will put my last post here to not derail the previous thread.

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High.

For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.

Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. Luke 6:35-36

Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him.
And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man RECEIVES SINNERS and eats with them.” So He spoke this parable to them, saying:
Luke 15:1-32

The parables of the lost coin,lost sheep and lost son. (How far the son had fallen away but was received back).

 

[complete]

Hello @God's Truth I've made this thread especially for you.
I wasn't sure of how to word the title and can change it if that's possible or make another one with how you would like it to be worded.
Hope others join in
Hello @complete
I will add others after you join in.
I will put my last post here to not derail the previous thread.

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High.

For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.

Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. Luke 6:35-36

Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him.
And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man RECEIVES SINNERS and eats with them.” So He spoke this parable to them, saying:
Luke 15:1-32

The parables of the lost coin,lost sheep and lost son. (How far the son had fallen away but was received back).

'But God commendeth His love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
For if, when we were enemies,
we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by Whom we have now received the atonement.'
(Rom 5:8-11)

Hello @Lavenderfields,

Thank you for including me. Strangely, that verse from Romans that you quoted, ( that I have underlined above ) has been at the forefront of my mind over the last few days.

* We as sinners come to God, through the Lord Jesus Christ, and seek the salvation that He offers, through faith in His Beloved Son. I came in floods of tears, so conscious of my need of salvation. I knew that I had sinned and come short of the glory of God, young as I was. He had convicted me of sin, and I sought His forgiveness. I knew that the wages of sin was death, and I sought the promise of the gift of life which only God could give. Resurrection life!

* I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is God's only Begotten Son, and that He has taken my sin upon Himself and died in my place, that I, through faith in Him, may receive the gift of resurrection life, through His Name. He has risen from the dead, thereby defeating the power of death for all who place their trust in Him, and now ever lives to intercede for us.

* I believe God (like Abraham) and it is counted unto me for righteousness, as the Word of God says ( Romans 4:3 & Galatians 3:6 ).

* God has said it, I believe it, glory to His Name!

* Praise God! For His mercy and His grace.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[*Lavender]

Hello @complete

Thank you for sharing that this verse has been on your mind.
'But God commendeth His love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
For if, when we were enemies,
we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by Whom we have now received the atonement.'
(Rom 5:8-11)

That really does show that we do not earn our salvation because it's what Jesus did for us.

Not what we do for God. Only that we do respond to the offer of salvation through the repentance of our sins to God and receiving Jesus by faith to forgive them.

Ours is the response, the circumcision of the heart.
We are not saved by our own merits because that would render the atonement of the blood
of Jesus to be empty.
As we agree on.

 

[God's Truth]

Hello @God's Truth I've made this thread especially for you.
I wasn't sure of how to word the title and can change it if that's possible or make another one with how you would like it to be worded.
Hope others join in

Is this thread to be about who God loves personally?

 

[*Lavender]

Is this thread to be about who God loves personally?

Not at all. Just for general discussion and related topics.

 

[God's Truth]

Not at all. Just for general discussion and related topics.

Like a talk about anything we want post?

 

[God's Truth]

'But God commendeth His love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
For if, when we were enemies,
we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by Whom we have now received the atonement.'
(Rom 5:8-11)

Hello @Lavenderfields,

Thank you for including me. Strangely, that verse from Romans that you quoted, ( that I have underlined above ) has been at the forefront of my mind over the last few days.
* We as sinners come to God, through the Lord Jesus Christ, and seek the salvation that He offers, through faith in His Beloved Son. I came in floods of tears, so conscious of my need of salvation. I knew that I had sinned and come short of the glory of God, young as I was. He had convicted me of sin, and I sought His forgiveness. I knew that the wages of sin was death, and I sought the promise of the gift of life which only God could give. Resurrection life!

God doesn't save us for emotional episodes.
We have to know what are sins are and confess them and repent of them.

* I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is God's only Begotten Son, and that He has taken my sin upon Himself and died in my place, that I, through faith in Him, may receive the gift of resurrection life, through His Name. He has risen from the dead, thereby defeating the power of death for all who place their trust in Him, and now ever lives to intercede for us.

* I believe God (like Abraham) and it is counted unto me for righteousness, as the Word of God says ( Romans 4:3 & Galatians 3:6 ).

Abraham's work of circumcision is argued against his faith, NOT his faith verses his obedience.

Abraham obeyed God and that is why God loved Abraham.

* God has said it, I believe it, glory to His Name!

* Praise God! For His mercy and His grace.

You believe the false teachings from men or the teachings from God?

 

[God's Truth]

Hello @complete

Thank you for sharing that this verse has been on your mind.
'But God commendeth His love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
For if, when we were enemies,
we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by Whom we have now received the atonement.'
(Rom 5:8-11)

That really does show that we do not earn our salvation because it's what Jesus did for us.

God loved 'us' in general.
God loves His creation.
He doesn't love anyone personally unless we love Him by obeying Him.

Not what we do for God. Only that we do respond to the offer of salvation through the repentance of our sins to God and receiving Jesus by faith to forgive them.

Ours is the response, the circumcision of the heart.

No one receives a circumcised heart unless they obey.

We are not saved by our own merits because that would render the atonement of the blood
of Jesus to be empty.

Nonsense.

 

[*Lavender]

@God's Truth
I've been on these forums for a number of years and there are always those who come on with a different viewpoint.
Some express themselves politely and with respect.
Others express themselves inserting rude insulting words. Usually distorting what others are saying if they are not in agreement . Misrepresenting what others mean. Applying their own behaviour to others.
They are diversions and smoke screens. They do these through out They are manipulative tactics.
I thought better of you and am disappointed that you resort to this. I thought somewhere you had some respect and gentleness for others.

 

[complete]

Hello @Lavenderfields,

Don't be troubled. The word of God is the Arbiter isn't it? We can measure the truth of our words and that of others by comparing it with what is written in God's word.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[*Lavender]

Hello @Lavenderfields,

Don't be troubled. The word of God is the Arbiter isn't it? We can measure the truth of our words and that of others by comparing it with what is written in God's word.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes that's a good way of saying that. The Word of God is the Arbiter.
That it's clear:
complete said:
'But God commendeth His love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
For if, when we were enemies,
we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by Whom we have now received the atonement.'
(Rom 5:8-11)
Those who dispute or disagree with this would have to be disagreeing with the Arbiter within the Word of God .
Using manipulative tactics as I said as smoke screens to not really accept the truth.
When actually this truth is a blessing to those who receive it because they would have revelation of the riches and mercy of God's grace .

 

[complete]

Subject Heading:- The heart of the sinner and the Saint​

Hello @Lavenderfields

A study based on your subject heading alone would yield important Truth I believe:-

A saint is a sinner who has been saved by God's grace.

The heart, which is said in God's Word to be deceitful and desperately wicked: is the seat of the affections, in both saint and the sinner. In the saint it differs now, because the saint is now occupied with things above, and His affections are set on God the Father, through His Son by His Spirit.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[*Lavender]

In Matthew 15:18-20 Jesus describes what defiles a person.
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. describes what defiles a man.

Jesus was talking to the Pharisees because they looked at righteousness in the outward appearance. They said things with their mouths but their heart was far away from God.

In reading this extract it is clear that Jesus was describing the heart of man. In what defiles him or her.

It's true that man was made in the image of God and their can be good in them but that is rendered as falling short of the glory of God, because of the sin there as well.

Therefore when a sinner repents to God and places their faith in Jesus to forgive them, they are cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

Jesus is their garment.
New life is given to them and they still contain the old nature.
That old nature cannot be discarded overnight, which would make them perfect.
The old nature has to die to sin. That's a process from glory to glory.

 

[GodB4Us]

God loved 'us' in general.
God loves His creation.
He doesn't love anyone personally unless we love Him by obeying Him.

No one receives a circumcised heart unless they obey.

Nonsense.

@Lavenderfields <----- This is more of a reply to you than to God's Truth since God's Truth & I are in a disagreement, but it is in regards to what he had posted though.

So did Jesus Christ waited for sinners to be good enough and to do good by repenting from all sins before He died for us?

Romans 5:Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: <---- I do not read we are being justified by repenting from sins first before we come to & believe in Jesus Christ.
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. <----- To repent from sins first would testify that we would be former sinners before coming to Jesus, but this verse says no.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Unless you can verify or explain God's Truth's position better to me than he can, I oppose his post that I have quoted.

 

[GodB4Us]

'But God commendeth His love toward us,
in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Much more then, being now justified by His blood,
we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
For if, when we were enemies,
we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son,
much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
by Whom we have now received the atonement.'
(Rom 5:8-11)

Hello @Lavenderfields,

Thank you for including me. Strangely, that verse from Romans that you quoted, ( that I have underlined above ) has been at the forefront of my mind over the last few days.

* We as sinners come to God, through the Lord Jesus Christ, and seek the salvation that He offers, through faith in His Beloved Son. I came in floods of tears, so conscious of my need of salvation. I knew that I had sinned and come short of the glory of God, young as I was. He had convicted me of sin, and I sought His forgiveness. I knew that the wages of sin was death, and I sought the promise of the gift of life which only God could give. Resurrection life!

* I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is God's only Begotten Son, and that He has taken my sin upon Himself and died in my place, that I, through faith in Him, may receive the gift of resurrection life, through His Name. He has risen from the dead, thereby defeating the power of death for all who place their trust in Him, and now ever lives to intercede for us.

* I believe God (like Abraham) and it is counted unto me for righteousness, as the Word of God says ( Romans 4:3 & Galatians 3:6 ).

* God has said it, I believe it, glory to His Name!

* Praise God! For His mercy and His grace.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

In regards to the sinner, I have noticed that some sinners cannot repent of sins before coming to Jesus but I have also noticed that some sinners come to Jesus to be delivered from their sins.

So I can see how one can be convicted of sins and/or acknowledge themselves as sinners in need of God as their Saviour, but I do not see that as inferring that a sinner needs to repent from sins first before Jesus can save them. I believe sinners come to Jesus for Jesus to turn ungodliness from them by destroying the work of the devil in our lives.

What bothers me of the insistence of the sinner to obey and to repent from sin first is the woman I had come across at work one time who had believed she had to clean up her life first before coming to Jesus. I told her otherwise because Jesus is the One that cleanses us up when we come to Him. That is His job... to save us from our sins.

I do wonder how many sinners walked away from coming to & believing in Jesus Christ because they cannot see it in themselves to repent from sins when sins have dominion over their lives. That is why I am opposed to repenting from sins first because sinners need to know that Jesus Christ came to save sinners to deliver them from their bondage to sin and to death and not just give eternal life for all those that believe in Him. Indeed, we are to keep on believing in Him to turn ungodliness away from us in following Him daily as the Good Shepherd He is.

So the heart of the sinner should be the same as the heart of the saint in surrendering from our efforts in trying to save ourselves and then continually surrendering to Him for help in following Him by the same grace of God we have been saved by.

 

[*Lavender]

@Lavenderfields <----- This is more of a reply to you than to God's Truth since God's Truth & I are in a disagreement, but it is in regards to what he had posted though.

So did Jesus Christ waited for sinners to be good enough and to do good by repenting from all sins before He died for us?

Romans 5:Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: <---- I do not read we are being justified by repenting from sins first before we come to & believe in Jesus Christ.
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. <----- To repent from sins first would testify that we would be former sinners before coming to Jesus, but this verse says no.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Unless you can verify or explain God's Truth's position better to me than he can, I oppose his post that I have quoted.

Hi GodB4Us,

That's a good question.So did Jesus Christ waited for sinners to be good enough and to do good by repenting from all sins before He died for us?

You have good answers too in the scriptures.

Nobody could be good enough. All have sinned except for Christ.
Nobody could ever attain to God's standard and that starts with the heart.
That's why Christ died in our place as our substitute.

God searches the heart and knows who would potentially respond to Him and the offer of salvation in Christ.
Therefore repentance is a harmony and a two way process in needing the Holy Spirit.

I try to understand God's truth and where he is coming from. That he says obedience to God.
I understand that the demons believe God exists and they tremble.

Is there something there we agree on but are communicating in different ways. For faith is a bit more than belief in an existance.

Faith is surely putting ones trust in God. Faith is activated to the heart and circumcision of the heart.

I see a lot of people on forums on quests to challenge many things.
That's fine if they are respectful but not good if they are not.
Also not good if they challenge the plumbline when the Word of God is perfectly clear.

Sometimes these quests give people security and identity.

Like I've known university students really ministering Calvinism.
Then later their revelation of God grew and their identity became more established in Christ and less in manmade securities.

Therefore knowing the riches and depths of God's love and grace is deeply beneficial.

 

[complete]

'And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart (H 3820) was only evil continually.
And it repented the LORD that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart .(H 3820)
And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth;
both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air;
for it repenteth Me that I have made them.
But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.'
(Gen 6:5-8)

Hello again, @Lavenderfields,

I looked to see how many Greek or Hebrew words in the Scriptures were translated 'heart', and how the Holy Spirit uses them. There were 4 in the O.T. and 3 in the N.T.:- H3820, H3823, H3824, H5315, H553 / G2588, G4641, G5590.

With reference to Genesis 6:5, quoted above, it was the first use of the word, 'heart', in Scripture: and the word 'heart' is used in relation to man and God within it. Concerning man it says, 'every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually' : Here the heart is put for the whole man, in respect to his knowledge or affection.: and in relation to God, it says that what man had become, 'grieved Him (God) at His heart'. This shows the intensity of the grief God felt, it was not superficial, but felt deep in His being.

I find this such a sad verse, don't you? I am glad that Noah was found to be uncontaminated.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

delete

 

[God's Truth]

@God's Truth
I've been on these forums for a number of years and there are always those who come on with a different viewpoint.
Some express themselves politely and with respect.
Others express themselves inserting rude insulting words. Usually distorting what others are saying if they are not in agreement . Misrepresenting what others mean. Applying their own behaviour to others.
They are diversions and smoke screens. They do these through out They are manipulative tactics.
I thought better of you and am disappointed that you resort to this. I thought somewhere you had some respect and gentleness for others.

Your judgments of me are false and unfair. Don't resort to this and derail threads with your opinions about me. There is no thread titled what do you think of GT. Check yourself.

 

[GodB4Us]

Hi GodB4Us,

That's a good question.So did Jesus Christ waited for sinners to be good enough and to do good by repenting from all sins before He died for us?

You have good answers too in the scriptures.

Nobody could be good enough. All have sinned except for Christ.
Nobody could ever attain to God's standard and that starts with the heart.
That's why Christ died in our place as our substitute.

God searches the heart and knows who would potentially respond to Him and the offer of salvation in Christ.
Therefore repentance is a harmony and a two way process in needing the Holy Spirit.

I believe the only repentance is turning from unbelief by believing in God and His words that by believing in Him is how we are saved. Since our believing in Him is a work of God as well, I would say that since we do believe in Jesus Christ, we can thank the Father that we do believe in Him. It should help with doubts when saints fall back into sins whereby they wonder if they are His in the first place, but they are, and they just need to believe in Him again that He will help them overcome no matter how contrary their will and flesh seems to be taking them. Just keep praying and trusting the Lord to do His work in us so we can follow Him and be at peace with Him in thought, heart, mouth, and deed.

I try to understand God's truth and where he is coming from. That he says obedience to God.
I understand that the demons believe God exists and they tremble.

That paraphrased reference from James is about James rebuking the church for applying faith in God to provide in sharing that faith to the poor without leading by example to the poor by meeting their immediate needs of the poor that were about to perish from starvation and the elements by giving to the poor from what the church had collected at church service. So in the eyes of the poor, the church's faith in God to provide for the poor was dead and would not "profit" the poor nor "save" the poor seeing how the church failed to lead by example. James was never talking about faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works, but James was talking about the church's abuse of the poor by sharing their faith in God to provide for the poor with the poor but not by leading by example to the poor.

Is there something there we agree on but are communicating in different ways. For faith is a bit more than belief in an existance.

Faith is surely putting ones trust in God. Faith is activated to the heart and circumcision of the heart.

If we recognize how the Father draws us unto the Son to reveal His Son to us so we can believe in Him to be saved, then we may see how we are saved by faith in Jesus Christ; given by the Father.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

I point out that the difference between the saved from the condemned is by how the saved believes in Him and the condemned do not. The saved will lean on Him to repent from all sins daily afterwards, but the unlearned saved may not be rooted in the word to know any better for why discipleship is important after salvation as we are to be taught His commandments after salvation of what we should look to Jesus for help in doing in following Him.

I see a lot of people on forums on quests to challenge many things.
That's fine if they are respectful but not good if they are not.
Also not good if they challenge the plumbline when the Word of God is perfectly clear.

Sometimes these quests give people security and identity.

Like I've known university students really ministering Calvinism.
Then later their revelation of God grew and their identity became more established in Christ and less in manmade securities.

Therefore knowing the riches and depths of God's love and grace is deeply beneficial.

I agree that every believer is a different growth rate and thus a different walk with the Lord in their lives but once they are informed to trust Jesus Christ as their personal Good Shepherd that He will help the to follow Him, they can apply that faith daily as they live that reconciled relationship with God thru Jesus Christ in getting to know Him & the power of His resurrection as they see themselves following Him by faith of what they could not do by doing the best they can like keeping a promise or a commitment. Once free from such man made yokes of bondages, the believer will realize that relying on Him all the time for the help & guidance they need for following Him is key in trusting Him for all things.