The heart of the sinner and the Saint.

[God's Truth]

@Lavenderfields <----- This is more of a reply to you than to God's Truth since God's Truth & I are in a disagreement, but it is in regards to what he had posted though.

So did Jesus Christ waited for sinners to be good enough and to do good by repenting from all sins before He died for us?

He did wait for the to repent of their sins.

Romans 5:Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: <---- I do not read we are being justified by repenting from sins first before we come to & believe in Jesus Christ.

Being justified by faith in Jesus' blood is in opposition to be justified by faith the blood of animals.

Being justified by faith is NOT being justified by faith alone, for the only time faith alone is mentioned is to warn us of what kind of faith not to have.

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. <----- To repent from sins first would testify that we would be former sinners before coming to Jesus, but this verse says no.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Did you see that? JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD. Justified by his blood verses justified by the blood of animals (the purification works).

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Unless you can verify or explain God's Truth's position better to me than he can, I oppose his post that I have quoted.

You talking about me and refusing to talk me is not of God.

 

[GodB4Us]

He did wait for the to repent of their sins.

While they were crucifying Him on the cross? I don't think so. He even prayed to the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do. Remember that? Hardly repenting first before He died for them.

Being justified by faith in Jesus' blood is in opposition to be justified by faith the blood of animals.

Being justified by faith is NOT being justified by faith alone, for the only time faith alone is mentioned is to warn us of what kind of faith not to have.

Yet the difference between justified by faith in Jesus's blood is to be different than being justified by faith in animal's blood should make you realize that it is justification by faith alone.

Did you see that? JUSTIFIED BY HIS BLOOD. Justified by his blood verses justified by the blood of animals (the purification works).

I see justification by faith by believing in Him alone. Don't you?

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

You talking about me and refusing to talk me is not of God.

Shunning as in excommunication is of God. I may not talk to you as much , but obviously by His hand, we are just not in that point in time when we can converse normally yet.

 

[*Lavender]

Your judgments of me are false and unfair. Don't resort to this and derail threads with your opinions about me. There is no thread titled what do you think of GT. Check yourself.

Hi God's truth
I had no intention to upset you. It was not intended to be like this. As you perceive. There has been quite a lot of empathy for you. Please learn to agree to disagree and not be rude.
Just cannot agree that salvation is earned. That shouldn't be insulted.

 

[God's Truth]

In regards to the sinner, I have noticed that some sinners cannot repent of sins before coming to Jesus but I have also noticed that some sinners come to Jesus to be delivered from their sins.

No such thing as coming to Jesus and being saved without repenting of sins.

So I can see how one can be convicted of sins and/or acknowledge themselves as sinners in need of God as their Saviour, but I do not see that as inferring that a sinner needs to repent from sins first before Jesus can save them. I believe sinners come to Jesus for Jesus to turn ungodliness from them by destroying the work of the devil in our lives.

What bothers me of the insistence of the sinner to obey and to repent from sin first is the woman I had come across at work one time who had believed she had to clean up her life first before coming to Jesus. I told her otherwise because Jesus is the One that cleanses us up when we come to Him. That is His job... to save us from our sins.

Isaiah 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the Lord.

Matthew 3:3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: "A voice of one calling in the wilderness, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for Him.'"

Mark 1:5 People went out to him from all of Jerusalem and the countryside of Judea. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

I do wonder how many sinners walked away from coming to & believing in Jesus Christ because they cannot see it in themselves to repent from sins when sins have dominion over their lives.

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.


THEY CANNOT BE SAVED THEN BECAUSE THEY LOVE THEIR SINS MORE.

That is why I am opposed to repenting from sins first because sinners need to know that Jesus Christ came to save sinners to deliver them from their bondage to sin and to death and not just give eternal life for all those that believe in Him. Indeed, we are to keep on believing in Him to turn ungodliness away from us in following Him daily as the Good Shepherd He is.

You think you know better than God!

So the heart of the sinner should be the same as the heart of the saint in surrendering from our efforts in trying to save ourselves and then continually surrendering to Him for help in following Him by the same grace of God we have been saved by.

You know that John the baptizer calls those you are getting to come to Jesus "Brood of vipers" don't you?

 

[God's Truth]

Hi God's truth
I had no intention to upset you. It was not intended to be like this. As you perceive. There has been quite a lot of empathy for you. Please learn to agree to disagree and not be rude.
Just cannot agree that salvation is earned. That shouldn't be insulted.

Stop yourself. Now.

 

[God's Truth]

While they were crucifying Him on the cross?

Jesus dying on the cross is something a person who wants to be with Jesus has to do too, and that is to crucify themselves with Christ.

I don't think so. He even prayed to the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do. Remember that? Hardly repenting first before He died for them.

All have to forgive others to be forgiven.

Yet the difference between justified by faith in Jesus's blood is to be different than being justified by faith in animal's blood should make you realize that it is justification by faith alone.

I see justification by faith by believing in Him alone. Don't you?

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Justification by the works of the law was circumcision of the flesh and various external baths, and the observance of special days and the dietary law and the sacrifice of animals.

Justification by Jesus' blood is by faith that Jesus' blood does all those things.

Shunning as in excommunication is of God. I may not talk to you as much , but obviously by His hand, we are just not in that point in time when we can converse normally yet.

Your evil treatment of me is not from God. Even Jesus was treated badly by people such as yourself.

 

[*Lavender]

@GodB4Us
Just thinking of the thief on the cross.
I'm not saying a passive faith in Jesus. It's more of an active faith that moved the heart to turn away from the sins, to turn to Christ.

When Jesus ministered to the crowds He often said to many individuals "your sins are forgiven."
There is no account of the woman with the alabaster flask repenting but she must have done.
Jesus forgave her of her sins. Luke 7:48

 

[God's Truth]

@GodB4Us
Just thinking of the thief on the cross.
I'm not saying a passive faith in Jesus. It's more of an active faith that moved the heart to turn away from the sins, to turn to Christ.

When Jesus ministered to the crowds He often said to many individuals "your sins are forgiven."
There is no account of the woman with the alabaster flask repenting but she must have done.
Jesus forgave her of her sins. Luke 7:48

Why can't you people see that JOHN THE BAPTIZER PREPARED THE WAY FOR JESUS by their HAVING TO REPENT OF THEIR SINS FIRST?

 

[God's Truth]

@GodB4Us
Just thinking of the thief on the cross.

The thief on the cross feared God; God’s salvation is near those who fear Him. See Psalm 85:9.

The thief on the cross believed Jesus; the work of God is to believe in the one He sent. See John 6:29.

The thief on the cross humbled himself. God pleads with people to be humble or they will never enter. See Matthew 18:3.

The thief admitted his sins, this is confession; he also admitted he deserved his punishment, that is regret and repentance for his sin. See Isaiah 66:2.

The thief on the cross confessed Jesus in front of others; Jesus says whoever acknowledges him before others, he will also acknowledge before his Father in heaven. See Matthew 10:32.

The thief was ready to wait on Jesus. We are told to wait on the Lord. See Psalm 62:1-2.

The thief also called on the name of the Lord, when he told Jesus to remember him when he got to his kingdom. The Bible says for us to call on the name of the Lord after repenting of our sins. See Acts 22:16.

The criminal on the cross obeyed a lot of things that Jesus says to do, it is the reason he saves someone. See John 14:23.

One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Christ? Save yourself and us!” Luke 23:39. But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.” Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” Luke 23:40-43. Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

The thief on the cross feared God, believed in his heart, humbled himself, admitted his sins, confessed, repented, acknowledged Jesus before men, was willing to wait on him, and called on Jesus.

Both thieves on the cross believed in Jesus, but only one of the thieves obeyed.

One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Christ? Save yourself and us!” Luke 23:39

Jesus tells us what we have to do, what we have to do to have the kind of heart he saves. He knows our hearts. See Acts 15:8.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Hello @God's Truth I've made this thread especially for you.
I wasn't sure of how to word the title and can change it if that's possible or make another one with how you would like it to be worded.
Hope others join in
Hello @complete
I will add others after you join in.
I will put my last post here to not derail the previous thread.

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High.

For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.

Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. Luke 6:35-36

Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him.
And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, “This Man RECEIVES SINNERS and eats with them.” So He spoke this parable to them, saying:
Luke 15:1-32

The parables of the lost coin,lost sheep and lost son. (How far the son had fallen away but was received back).

We are all firstborn with the heart of a sinner because of the sin nature in Adam. That is why we must be born again from above, and be given a new heart and new nature like Christ by the Holy Spirit.

We ourselves cannot create in us a new heart ,mind, and spirit; this can only be done by our Creator through faith in Jesus Christ.

Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Ezekiel 36:26
A new heart also will I give you, and a newspirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”

 

[*Lavender]

Why can't you people see that JOHN THE BAPTIZER PREPARED THE WAY FOR JESUS by their HAVING TO REPENT OF THEIR SINS FIRST?

Wasn't that addressed to the Pharisees and Sadducees who thought that they had divine rights but didn't show the fruits of the repentance because they were far away from God.

Of course people need to repent of their sins and receive Jesus by faith to forgive them.
I didn't say anything otherwise.
I understand we can't just believe Jesus exists but have that faith activated.
Only we cannot clean ourselves. Only Jesus can clean us.
What do you mean by obedience to God to be saved?
Do you mean this or something else?
That's what I'm trying to get to find out

 

[God's Truth]

We are all firstborn with the heart of a sinner because of the sin nature in Adam. That is why we must be born again from above, and be given a new heart and new nature like Christ by the Holy Spirit.

We ourselves cannot create in us a new heart ,mind, and spirit; this can only be done by our Creator through faith in Jesus Christ.

You are speaking against God when you say that.

Ezekiel 18:31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel?

 

[God's Truth]

@StewardoftheMystery

2 Kings 17:13 Yet through all His prophets and seers, the LORD warned Israel and Judah, saying, "Turn from your wicked ways and keep My commandments and statutes, according to the entire Law that I commanded your fathers and delivered to you through My servants the prophets."


This is what DAVID SAID AFTER REPENTING OF HIS SINS.

Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me.

Isaiah 1:16 Wash and cleanse yourselves. Remove your evil deeds from My sight. Stop doing evil!


Isaiah 55:7 Let the wicked man forsake his own way and the unrighteous man his own thoughts; let him return to the LORD, that He may have compassion, and to our God, for He will freely pardon.

Isaiah 59:20 "The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who turn from transgression," declares the LORD.

Are you people blind?

 

[God's Truth]

Choose what you will believe, the teaching of man, or the teachings of GOD WHO SAYS TO REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND LIVE.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Others express themselves inserting rude insulting words. Usually distorting what others are saying if they are not in agreement . Misrepresenting what others mean. Applying their own behaviour to others.
They are diversions and smoke screens. They do these through out They are manipulative tactics.
I thought better of you and am disappointed that you resort to this. I thought somewhere you had some respect and gentleness for others.

I am glad someone else can see the tactics GT is using by trying to misrepresent the message of those who believe we are saved by God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Somehow he equates salvation by grace through faith as being disobedient and as excluding repentance of sin and obeying the words of Jesus Christ. This of course is not true.

This is the same mentality that many of the Jews had toward Paul because of his preaching of salvation by grace through faith. They thought Paul was teaching against the law, but that was not the case.

Paul was simply showing that no man is going to be saved based on his own righteousness and works of the law. Paul in no way preached disobedience, or lawlessness, and neither do we who preach salvation by grace through faith.

This is a tactic of the enemy to misrepresent the true gospel message. No one here is saying we do not need to repent of sin and do not need to obey the words of God. But this is what he is trying to falsely accuse others of doing. This is very deceitful, and is not of God’s Holy Spirit.

 

[God's Truth]

I am glad someone else can see the tactics GT is using by trying to misrepresent the message of those who believe we are saved by God’s grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

Somehow he equates salvation by grace through faith as being disobedient and as excluding repentance of sin and obeying the words of Jesus Christ. This of course is not true.

This is the same mentality that many of the Jews had toward Paul because of his preaching of salvation by grace through faith. They thought Paul was teaching against the law, but that was not the case.

Paul was simply showing that no man is going to be saved based on his own righteousness and works of the law. Paul in no way preached disobedience, or lawlessness, and neither do we who preach salvation by grace through faith.

This is a tactic of the enemy to misrepresent the true gospel message. No one here is saying we do not need to repent of sin and do not need to obey the words of God. But this is what he is trying to falsely accuse others of doing. This is very deceitful, and is not of God’s Holy Spirit.

Evil false judgements.

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

 

[GodB4Us]

No such thing as coming to Jesus and being saved without repenting of sins.

In spite of the verses I have given you, you would still say that.

Isaiah 59:20 “The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins,” declares the Lord.

And how is it that repenting from unbelief is not an act of repentance for why salvation in Christ Jesus is by believing in Him?

Matthew 3:3 This is he who was spoken of through the prophet Isaiah: "A voice of one calling in the wilderness, 'Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for Him.'"

That's for John the Baptist preparing the way for the Lord where as his water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins changed to believing in Jesus Christ for the remission of sins per Acts 10:43-44.

Mark 1:5 People went out to him from all of Jerusalem and the countryside of Judea. Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

That applies to John the Baptist's water baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

THEY CANNOT BE SAVED THEN BECAUSE THEY LOVE THEIR SINS MORE.

You think you know better than God!

You know that John the baptizer calls those you are getting to come to Jesus "Brood of vipers" don't you?

Hence why they did not come to Jesus Christ to believe in Him to be saved, but you can't see that is why those who did not believe were condemned already per John 3:18 and yet those who simply believed in him were saved.

 

[GodB4Us]

Choose what you will believe, the teaching of man, or the teachings of GOD WHO SAYS TO REPENT OF YOUR SINS AND LIVE.

Can you clarify how you are NOT saying "You must save yourself by repenting from your sins first. Only then can God save you so you can live."

Not sure how you can apply the verses that we have been saved by grace.

 

[God's Truth]

Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Is that what the idiots did to Jesus?