The Meaning of Biblical Predestination, which is The Predestination of GOD.

[PloughBoy]

Maybe what you're referring to is that with God's omniscience He knows who will and who won't accept His salvation.

He would that All would come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ -- but knows that all Won't.

That is how man the human race thinks if a god thinks in that kind of pattern that is a Weak god and not to be Serve. That kind is not The Character of A "ALMIGHTY GOD" For MY GOD do not have to look any where, He is a creator, what ever He Ordains comes to pass before the Foundations of The COSMOS! From what He decides before it comes to be, it has been decided before it comes to being. Just like Jesus; it was decided what Jesus was going to be and do before the foundation of The WORlD. God did not look down through the Halls of Time to see if Jesus would obey Him and die on the cross and save some and not all. That is a false god that have to look to see if what he wills will come to pass. And that is the only way He can know things, He has to look and see! I would never serve a false god like That, and No Angel or creature can convince me to do so!
He decided i was going to be a son not me! He created me to be a son before the Foundation of The World. and everyone else who is born of GOD!
Dead men can't cannot do nothing but be dead! A dead man cannot even be a Zombie! Let alone even thinking about choosing GOD. People been looking at too much TV. Zombie cannot talk to GOD and they cannot speak in "tongues" either.

I knew this was going to be a heated one. Omniscience does not mean you have to look to be all knowing, all knowing means you have determine the outcome before it ever existed. That is how you know what is to come to past. Because you have Ordained it to be. Only a GOD can do that! and we only got ONE!

 

[Butch5]

Maybe what you're referring to is that with God's omniscience He knows who will and who won't accept His salvation.

He would that All would come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ -- but knows that all Won't.

Sorry, I thought this was to me.

I'm referring to God choosing a people for Himself, that people is Israel. From very early on God had a plan. Israel is an integral part of that plan. In Ephesian 1 Paul said they were predestined to adoption. In the video Sproul equates that with being saved. I suspect his reason for equating the two is because of his belief that God is sovereign and controls all things. Israel was adopted, God said Israel was His son, His first born. We know from Scripture that not every single Israelite was saved, thus being adopted doesn't equate to being saved. This is the point I make over and over about context and how important it is. Until we understand God's word in context we're not going to understand that plan and how God is working it all out. Instead we are taught to proof text. Someone says the Bible teaches this, and then they jump all over grabbing verses from here and there, put them together and say see. All of these isms and theological systems have done that. That's why you see Christians constantly arguing the same old arguments over and over. This argument over predestination is a perfect example. People on the Calvinist side say God chose who would believe before the foundation of the world (nothing in Scripture says that) and the Arminians say that God knew in advance who would believe and chose them (nothing in Scripture says that). Both sides argue from inferences that they are drawing from the text because neither side is stated in Scripture. The reason? The doctrine isn't Biblical. It's a Reformation doctrine. Sure, the word predestinate is in Scripture, but it simply means to predetermine. So what did God predetermined?

Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
(Gen. 12:1-2 KJV)

That's what was predestined or predetermined. God had predetermined that He would make a great nation from Abraham. That nation was Israel. This is what the Bible talks about when it speaks of predestination, not God choosing who will be saved. It's an argument where both sides are wrong.

 

[Sue D.]

@PloughBoy -- omniscience = all knowledge -- God is the Only One with all-knowledge = omniscience.

I think you're talking about the Sovereignty of God.

 

[Butch5]

@Butch5 -- well there Is system to Scripture. And passages Do have to be read in their intended context so as to Avoid some problems.

There Is Systematic Theology. I still have that book from my late husband's books. he went to both Bible college and seminary.

Systematic theology is just the ideas of men. Calvinism is a systematic theology. Arminianism is a systematic theology. They're just teachings that people have that they claim are Biblical.

 

[PloughBoy]

They're not strange. There was a time when I was a Calvinist. I'm familiar with your words. I'm also familiar with those of Calvin , Luther, Zwingli, and the others. I simply disagree with them. When I look at the Bible in its context from start to finish I see something else. The biggest problem I find is that people proof text. They don't study the Bible in context. People say they study the Bible, but, I think what they really mean is that they study some theological system which purportedly comes from the Bible.

1st thing how does one become a Calvinist? That is a question. because the reason i am asking, because I never knew how to be nothing but a "Child of GOD" for that is who I am. But many have called me a Calvinist before i even heard of the WORD "John Calvin" they have called me a christian they have called me a Calvinist. I have only referred to my self a "child of GOD' growing into one of The sons of GOD" which shows maturity into the Faith. BY the wounds of Chastisement and Scourging from the Hands of The FATHER.

Many people use the word "theology" Theological systems they have no idea what those terms means. Just like the words "calvinism" christians, christianity, words now day means nothing but what the user determines it authenticity.. That is why I always refer to the "etymology' of a word. Then you know exactly what it means. And no room for error in understand what I mean.

For i understand what you mean too. When referring to the different genre of religion practices by people even in the form of Christianity. There are all kinds of RCC, Presbyterians, Calvinist, baptist, Pentecostals, Methodist, Eastern Orthodox, I just try to stay in my lane and sturdy the course and if i fall into error, repent, and get back on course just as fast as possible and keep going. And if my understanding feels funny, gain my footing. That my sleep may be at peace.

 

[Butch5]

1st thing how does one become a Calvinist? That is a question. because the reason i am asking, because I never knew how to be nothing but a "Child of GOD" for that is who I am. But many have called me a Calvinist before i even heard of the WORD "John Calvin" they have called me a christian they have called me a Calvinist. I have only referred to my self a "child of GOD' growing into one of The sons of GOD" which shows maturity into the Faith. BY the wounds of Chastisement and Scourging from the Hands of The FATHER.

Many people use the word "theology" Theological systems they have no idea what those terms means. Just like the words "calvinism" christians, christianity, words now day means nothing but what the user determines it authenticity.. That is why I always refer to the "etymology' of a word. Then you know exactly what it means. And no room for error in understand what I mean.

For i understand what you mean too. When referring to the different genre of religion practices by people even in the form of Christianity. There are all kinds of RCC, Presbyterians, Calvinist, baptist, Pentecostals, Methodist, Eastern Orthodox, I just try to stay in my lane and sturdy the course and if i fall into error, repent, and get back on course just as fast as possible and keep going. And if my understanding feels funny, gain my footing. That my sleep may be at peace.

A Calvinist is just a person who follows Reformed theology. Reformed theology is a system also. I think most people believe they believe the Bible correctly. I don't know anyone who says, I know what I believe is wrong but I'm going to believe it anyway. However, I think we can see by the many different beliefs that a lot of those people, who believe they believe the Bible, are wrong. I think there are a lot of reasons for that. Some people believe whatever their church teaches and they never question it. Some have faulty presuppositions. Some don't reason properly. Some don't worry about context. There are many reasons. There's a lot of incorrect teaching in Christianity today. Systematic theologies look good because they are a system. They work. The problem is that they often don't align with Scriptures. Sure, there will be passages that seem to fit, but then there are those that don't fit. If we have passages of Scripture that don't fit our theology, our theology is wrong.

 

[PloughBoy]

@PloughBoy -- omniscience = all knowledge -- God is the Only One with all-knowledge = omniscience.

I think you're talking about the Sovereignty of God.

I know what i am talking about, for many, this i know have no idea what the Biblical word "Omniscience" means when referring to GOD, but only have the concept of a worldly terminology that is excepted by mankind that only is available to a "finite"mind, which will never step over into the "incomprehensible" of Infinite for only there is where the "Omniscience" lies. When we grow more into GOD we never have to use "Attributes" in defining GOD. For The word GOD or "Almighty GOD" covers All and needs no explanations or expressions for in your spirit you know who He is. For All human words comes short.

(John 4)BSB
"But a time is coming and has now come when the TRUE worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. God is Spirit, and His worshipers MUST worship Him in spirit and in truth.”…

And that is not an "OPTION".

True Worshipping of GOD is not holding your hands up in the air in a building and chanting! True worshipping is a lot more than that. When the host is a mixture of the saved and the unsaved, the devils and the saints, The child of The Promise and The child of The Bond slave cannot produce the "Koinonia of GOD" What fellowship can the unregenerate have with the regenerate? None whatsoever.

You can be worshipping GOD on a street corner and not a word being said or a song being song! In total quietness. And it would seem that if All Heaven was coming down upon your soul. be you one or be you two or three strangers and not saying one word to one another but into pure amazement. Fellowshipping with GOD! worshipping not saying one word or singing not a song. Pure quietness in the presence of GOD!

That is why Jesus said to the woman AT The WELL:
(John 4:21)BSB
“BELIEVE ME WOMAN” Jesus replied, “a time is coming when you will worship the Father NEITHER on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You worship what you do not know;

 

[PloughBoy]

A Calvinist is just a person who follows Reformed theology. Reformed theology is a system also. I think most people believe they believe the Bible correctly. I don't know anyone who says, I know what I believe is wrong but I'm going to believe it anyway. However, I think we can see by the many different beliefs that a lot of those people, who believe they believe the Bible, are wrong. I think there are a lot of reasons for that. Some people believe whatever their church teaches and they never question it. Some have faulty presuppositions. Some don't reason properly. Some don't worry about context. There are many reasons. There's a lot of incorrect teaching in Christianity today. Systematic theologies look good because they are a system. They work. The problem is that they often don't align with Scriptures. Sure, there will be passages that seem to fit, but then there are those that don't fit. If we have passages of Scripture that don't fit our theology, our theology is wrong.

A lot of people follows the way of churches and not The Way of Jesus Christ. For The churches have have become their god and they cannot tell the difference between The two. Because one is an "Idol" and it has taken up Residence in Their soul. It is like an "Adulteress' relationship that a woman cannot break, and how she feels and treats her true husband. But yet she says, she loves him. And the Adultery tells her he loves her, or The other Female tells her she Loves her. But actually this type relationship has become "Lesbianic" a " church in love with another type of church" a women telling another's Bride" what to do and how to act. ignoring her own Bridegroom for the love of another. Can you see the "Biblical Motif" She has falling in love with the creation and strayed away From Her own Bridegroom who is her Creator., who gave His life for her And she feels she has done no wrong.

 

[Sue D.]

@PloughBoy -- sometimes you are So way out in 'left field'. But then again, you'd probably see that as a compliment.

@Butch5 -- yes, there Is a lot of false teaching in churches these days. The Basic truth though -- Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father, but through/ by Him."

And we Do need to be in God's Word ourselves and not simply depend on Pastor teaching correctly. God's Word even tells us to question any Bible speaker as to the accuracy of what he's teaching. And a pastor Should be able to show from the Bible what he's preaching / the authenticity of what he's been teaching.

And, yes, part of being a human being -- 'we' know 'we' have it right. Everyone else is misled or misinterpreting -- not really rightly dividing the Word of God.

And there are those who believe that as long as they are using the KJV -- Anything they say is correct.

The context Is vital. Essential. And , yes, Scripture is correct

At one point in my husband's education -- he was required to go to Calvinistic-based teaching in order to get into the Air Force Chaplaincy -- he never did get in because of the situation way back then. But one of the questions -- for his ordination was 'Could Christ have sinned' After all He was 100% human and 100 % divine. Because of His human part -- Could He have sinned. The 'correct' answer was No -- he was very independent and chose to say 'yes' -- saying that He Could have but he Didn't.

Your comments -- you come across as sounding like You are one of the Only people who does it 'correctly'

 

[Butch5]

@PloughBoy -- sometimes you are So way out in 'left field'. But then again, you'd probably see that as a compliment.

@Butch5 -- yes, there Is a lot of false teaching in churches these days. The Basic truth though -- Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life and no one comes to the Father, but through/ by Him."

And we Do need to be in God's Word ourselves and not simply depend on Pastor teaching correctly. God's Word even tells us to question any Bible speaker as to the accuracy of what he's teaching. And a pastor Should be able to show from the Bible what he's preaching / the authenticity of what he's been teaching.

And, yes, part of being a human being -- 'we' know 'we' have it right. Everyone else is misled or misinterpreting -- not really rightly dividing the Word of God.

And there are those who believe that as long as they are using the KJV -- Anything they say is correct.

The context Is vital. Essential. And , yes, Scripture is correct

At one point in my husband's education -- he was required to go to Calvinistic-based teaching in order to get into the Air Force Chaplaincy -- he never did get in because of the situation way back then. But one of the questions -- for his ordination was 'Could Christ have sinned' After all He was 100% human and 100 % divine. Because of His human part -- Could He have sinned. The 'correct' answer was No -- he was very independent and chose to say 'yes' -- saying that He Could have but he Didn't.

Your comments -- you come across as sounding like You are one of the Only people who does it 'correctly'

I have to agree with your husband. I would also answer yes. If He couldn't sin He couldn't be tempted. Scripture says He was.

I'm not the only one who has it right. However, I only debate subjects which I have studied intensely. If you notice you don't see me debating end times subjects. That's not an area where I have done intensive study.

 

[Garee]

Many people use the word "theology" Theological systems they have no idea what those terms means. Just like the words "calvinism" christians, christianity, words now day means nothing but what the user determines it authenticity.. That is why I always refer to the "etymology' of a word. Then you know exactly what it means. And no room for error in understand what I mean.

I would agree we must refer to the "etymology' of a word in order to seek the approval of our unseen God as he lovingly commands men (2 Timothy 2:15) .

Change the meaning of one word can change the commandments. . . many words . In that way we can keep the authors integrity .

Word meaning is changing rapidly the wile of the devil the author of confusion. The builder of the city of the tower of Babel .

Deuteronomy 4 King James Version (KJV) Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers giveth you. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

One thing I have noticed is the Bible uses demonyms a word to denote the natives or inhabitants of a particular country, state, city, etc. throughout the bible in respect to the residents thereof .

Genesis 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

In that way our heavenly Father has built a city after the name of His Son, Christ . the church or city of cities or nations of nations .

The new name the Holy father promised to name her seems to get over looked . Many today say the word Christian is a derogatory term the the unbelievers named the followers of Christ .They are followers but it is not the meaning of the word with no other meaning added .

In Isaiah 62 he makes the promise

Isaiah 62 King James Version (KJV) For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth.And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

In Acts 11 the promise is fulfilled the time of reformation had come. In a way God had come do do his calling changing her name from Israel meaning; "mankind wrestles with fresh and blood and over comes because they have the born again Spirit of Christ" the Spirit of power . If any has not the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to the new family of Christians .

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

The father in Isaiah 62 changed it to Christian .A more befitting name . Literally meaning ; "Residents of the city of Christ prepared as his bride named after her Husband, Christ" . . The gospel in a name .The word Christian from my experience has seemed to lost some of its power as an representative glory of the husband .

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

 

[Sue D.]

I have to agree with your husband. I would also answer yes. If He couldn't sin He couldn't be tempted. Scripture says He was.

I'm not the only one who has it right. However, I only debate subjects which I have studied intensely. If you notice you don't see me debating end times subjects. That's not an area where I have done intensive study.

Being tempted isn't a sin -- it's giving in To the temptation that is.

I've known people who've studied intensely and are intensely wrong. Mormon's study intensely and are very off-base in their conclusions.

Maybe I could ask -- what is the object Of debating Scripture. I'm familiar with high school / college debate teams. But why do that with Scripture is what I'm wondering.

 

[PloughBoy]

Being tempted isn't a sin -- it's giving in To the temptation that is.

I've known people who've studied intensely and are intensely wrong. Mormon's study intensely and are very off-base in their conclusions.

Maybe I could ask -- what is the object Of debating Scripture. I'm familiar with high school / college debate teams. But why do that with Scripture is what I'm wondering.

Sue D. said: "But why do that with Scripture is what I'm wondering."

Because, We have a devil! And he is doing his job! And he is a "Perfect Adversary" who was "design by GOD" and in The Beginning everything GOD made was "GOOD"

New American Standard Bible
And God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.

New American Standard Bible
For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;

Ecclesiastes 3:11
He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom the work that God has done from beginning to end.

 

[Butch5]

Being tempted isn't a sin -- it's giving in To the temptation that is.

I've known people who've studied intensely and are intensely wrong. Mormon's study intensely and are very off-base in their conclusions.

Maybe I could ask -- what is the object Of debating Scripture. I'm familiar with high school / college debate teams. But why do that with Scripture is what I'm wondering.

You're right, being tempted isn't a sin. However; in order to be tempted one must be able to sin. The reason Jesus' life is so remarkable is that He could sin, but didn't. No other human being can say that.

There's good reason to debate over Scripture. There's a lot of false teaching out there.

 

[Sue D.]

@Butch5 -- I guess that I differentiate between debating and discussing Scripture.

And we Can sin because we're people born with the propensity For sinning.

Jesus was here as God incarnate -- He was not capable Of sinning. If He Was then He couldn't have taken our sins upon Himself on the cross and rise again for us.

He wasn't just another human being when He was here.

 

[complete]

Sorry, I thought this was to me.

I'm referring to God choosing a people for Himself, that people is Israel. From very early on God had a plan. Israel is an integral part of that plan. In Ephesian 1 Paul said they were predestined to adoption.

Hello @Butch5,

I agree that Israel is an integral part of God's plan, and that to them pertains the adoption:-

'For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren,
my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites;
to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.'
(Rom 9:3-5)

* However, in Ephesians it is the Church which is the Body of Christ which is being referred to and not Israel as a nation. Adoption and Inheritance go hand in hand, and the inheritance of Israel is very different to that of those who comprise The Body of Christ.

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
To the praise of the glory of His grace,
wherein He hath made us accepted in The Beloved.
In Whom we have redemption through His blood,
the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace;
Wherein He hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;'
(Ephesians 1:3-8)

* Those whom God foreknew He also predestined, not to salvation itself, but to something resulting from salvation, such as 'the adoption of children', or 'to be conformed to the image of His Son' (Romans 8:29-30) .

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Garee]

Hello @Butch5,

I agree that Israel is an integral part of God's plan, and that to them pertains the adoption:-

'For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren,
my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites;
to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came,
who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.'
(Rom 9:3-5)

* However, in Ephesians it is the Church which is the Body of Christ which is being referred to and not Israel as a nation. Adoption and Inheritance go hand in hand, and the inheritance of Israel is very different to that of those who comprise The Body of Christ.

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as He hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world,
that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself,
according to the good pleasure of His will,
To the praise of the glory of His grace,
wherein He hath made us accepted in The Beloved.
In Whom we have redemption through His blood,
the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace;
Wherein He hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence;'
(Ephesians 1:3-8)

* Those whom God foreknew He also predestined, not to salvation itself, but to something resulting from salvation, such as 'the adoption of children', or 'to be conformed to the image of His Son' (Romans 8:29-30) .

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

I would offer all believers are adopted into the family of God. the work of God has nothing to do with the flesh seen (the temporal) of mankind

It would seem that changing a name represented an action of God working in mankind, it is common. working towards the end of the matter...

Jacob which means deceiver or one who grabs the heel of another ( Esau ) Jacob did wrestles against flesh and blood (Esau) . In a dream a vision was given where Jacob did wrestle against flesh and blood and was overcome by the power of God. Changing the name from deceiver with no power to a overcomer to Israel.with power

Jacob as natural uncovered mankind had no power with God needed to prevail with men and overcome his own flesh .

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Not all Israel is born again Israel the beautiful city

In Isaiah 62 ,God promises to name his bride Israel a new name which he named her in acts. (Christian) A more befitting name to name the bride of many nations .

Christian a word when defined and no other meaning added as a demonym (people by location) Christain the new name the father named His bride simple means residents of the city prepared as His bride named after her founder Christ.

Isaiah 62:1-4 King James Version (KJV) For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

The time of reformation has come over two thousand years ago doing its work of restoring the order of Judges. the time period before God gave over the atheist Jews (no God in their heart) to do that which they should not.

They had become jealous of the surrounding pagan nations as a hierarchy of men that lord it over the faith of the non vereable. .the refomation rewstored the government of peace (the father and Son as one God) God not seen reigning in the hearts of his prophets and apostles.

Therefore the King of kings and Lord of lords destroying the abomination of desolation (kings in Israel.) as outward Jews according to the flesh and not inward Jews the true Israel .

The time of reformation has come over two thousand years ago restoring the order of Judges. men and woman prophets as apostles holding out the gospel of Christ faith that works in those who believe. God not seen reigning in the hearts of his prophets and apostles. Therefore the King of kings and Lord of lords destroying the abomination of desolation (kings in Israel.) Outward Jews according to the flesh and not inward Jews the true Israel made up of all the nations of the world .

1 Samuel 4-7 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Restoration theology continuing to do the work of reformation, as it is written

 

[PloughBoy]

 

[PloughBoy]

I would offer all believers are adopted into the family of God. the work of God has nothing to do with the flesh seen (the temporal) of mankind

It would seem that changing a name represented an action of God working in mankind, it is common. working towards the end of the matter...

Jacob which means deceiver or one who grabs the heel of another ( Esau ) Jacob did wrestles against flesh and blood (Esau) . In a dream a vision was given where Jacob did wrestle against flesh and blood and was overcome by the power of God. Changing the name from deceiver with no power to a overcomer to Israel.with power

Jacob as natural uncovered mankind had no power with God needed to prevail with men and overcome his own flesh .

Genesis 32:28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Not all Israel is born again Israel the beautiful city

In Isaiah 62 ,God promises to name his bride Israel a new name which he named her in acts. (Christian) A more befitting name to name the bride of many nations .

Christian a word when defined and no other meaning added as a demonym (people by location) Christain the new name the father named His bride simple means residents of the city prepared as His bride named after her founder Christ.

Isaiah 62:1-4 King James Version (KJV) For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the Lord delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married.

The time of reformation has come over two thousand years ago doing its work of restoring the order of Judges. the time period before God gave over the atheist Jews (no God in their heart) to do that which they should not.

They had become jealous of the surrounding pagan nations as a hierarchy of men that lord it over the faith of the non vereable. .the refomation rewstored the government of peace (the father and Son as one God) God not seen reigning in the hearts of his prophets and apostles.

Therefore the King of kings and Lord of lords destroying the abomination of desolation (kings in Israel.) as outward Jews according to the flesh and not inward Jews the true Israel .

The time of reformation has come over two thousand years ago restoring the order of Judges. men and woman prophets as apostles holding out the gospel of Christ faith that works in those who believe. God not seen reigning in the hearts of his prophets and apostles. Therefore the King of kings and Lord of lords destroying the abomination of desolation (kings in Israel.) Outward Jews according to the flesh and not inward Jews the true Israel made up of all the nations of the world .

1 Samuel 4-7 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations. But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Restoration theology continuing to do the work of reformation, as it is written

And Do we remember in "Genesis" The 28 Chapter, When Jacob Gave GOD, an "Ultimatum" If this GOD met his conditions, then this God would be his GOD! "The God of Abraham and Isaac" and only then will this GOD be his GOD! This was a "VOW" that Jacob made. Now to all of you "Bible Scholars" and readers who have read the "BOOK", did GOD honor The "VOW" that Jacob demanded and did Jacob do everything that he "Vowed" to do in honoring GOD as you finish reading The STORY about The Relationship between "GOD and JACOB", since you claim you have read "THE BOOK"! And please don't lie. For by your answers and "tap dancing" I will know, if you have told an Out right Lie, to your Brothers and Sisters in "Christ Jesus"

If you don't know, say I don't know. Or, I miss that one. Here is a clue, I will help you out. "Jacob never paid a Tithe to GOD

PS "Now what this have to do with "Predestination" Everything.

(GENESIS 28)
1Then Isaac called Jacob and blessed him and directed him, “You must not take a wife from the Canaanite women. 2Arise, go to Paddan-aram to the house of Bethuel your mother’s father, and take as your wife from there one of the daughters of Laban your mother’s brother. 3God Almightya bless you and make you fruitful and multiply you, that you may become a company of peoples. 4May he give the blessing of Abraham to you and to your offspring with you, that you may take possession of the land of your sojournings that God gave to Abraham!” 5Thus Isaac sent Jacob away. And he went to Paddan-aram, to Laban, the son of Bethuel the Aramean, the brother of Rebekah, Jacob’s and Esau’s mother.

Esau Marries an Ishmaelite

6Now Esau saw that Isaac had blessed Jacob and sent him away to Paddan-aram to take a wife from there, and that as he blessed him he directed him, “You must not take a wife from the Canaanite women,” 7and that Jacob had obeyed his father and his mother and gone to Paddan-aram. 8So when Esau saw that the Canaanite women did not please Isaac his father, 9Esau went to Ishmael and took as his wife, besides the wives he had, Mahalath the daughter of Ishmael, Abraham’s son, the sister of Nebaioth.

Jacob’s Dream

10Jacob left Beersheba and went toward Haran. 11And he came to a certain place and stayed there that night, because the sun had set. Taking one of the stones of the place, he put it under his head and lay down in that place to sleep. 12And he dreamed, and behold, there was a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven. And behold, the angels of God were ascending and descending on it! 13And behold, the LORD stood above itc and said, “I am the LORD, the God of Abraham your father and the God of Isaac. The land on which you lie I will give to you and to your offspring. 14Your offspring shall be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread abroad to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south, and in you and your offspring shall all the families of the earth be blessed. 15Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land. For I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.” 16 THEN JACOB WOKE UP from his sleep and said, “Surely the LORD is in this place, and I did not know it.” 17And he was afraid and said, “How awesome is this place! This is none other than the house of God, and this is the gate of heaven.”

18So early in the morning Jacob took the stone that he had put under his head and set it up for a pillar and poured oil on the top of it. 19He called the name of that place Bethel, but the name of the city was Luz at the first. 20THEN JACOB MADE A VOW, saying, “If" .......God will be with me AND will keep me in this way that I go, AND will give me bread to eat AND clothing to wear, 21SO THAT I come again to my father’s house in peace, "THEN" the LORD shall be my God, 22AND this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, shall be God’s house. AND of all that you GIVE ME I will give a "FULL TITHE" to YOU.”

You don't make deals with GOD! How can a lump of Clay make a deal with a "GOD"! Have we lost our minds? 1. We don't know who we are 2. We don't know who GOD is. If we think we can.


NOW, THROUGHOUT, the Biblical story of GOD's relationship with JACOB's DID GOD Meet "JACOB"S Conditions! " For this is not a Minstrel show" Tap Dancing is not Allowed" For GOD told Jacob what HE was going to do, Before Jacob said Anything! And GOD had NO, conditions!

For It had already been "Predestinated" "before The Foundations of The World" For there is a difference in the view of mankind, concerning "Predestination" and "The Predestination of GOD" Why, ..........Because........ HE is, "GOD"

PS.
(Romans 9)NASB
"Just as it is written: “JACOB I HAVE LOVED, BUT ESAU I HAVE HATED.”

What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? Far from it! For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOMEVER I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL SHOW COMPASSION TO WHOMEVER I SHOW COMPASSION.” So then, it does not depend on the person who wants it nor the one who runs, but on God who has mercy."

Now, Does GOD, loves, everybody and we know, HE cannot lie.

Are you crying yet? for the MERCY That HE HAS POURED On You.

 

[Born Again 2004]

Maybe what you're referring to is that with God's omniscience He knows who will and who won't accept His salvation.

He would that All would come to the saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ -- but knows that all Won't.

Bingo! The Alpha and Omega!