The Rapture
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There is No Falling Away
First it’s important for you to understand that the “harpazo” / “rapturos” / “calling up” or “gathering together” can happen at any moment now. There is absolutely no question about it. If you are like me, you tend to look at scriptural time-lines and estimate when the next “big event” will occur.
When studying 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, you see Paul instructing people just like us. Back then people had quit their jobs and were freaking out that the Day of “Christ” might have already happened and they “missed it”. REALLY? Hmmm. That says a lot. Paul had to hammer the point home to get these people to “chill out”. Later in the chapter he tells people if they don’t work, they don’t eat. The situation was serious. The entire purpose of 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 was to calm everyone down and explain to them CLEARLY that they need not fret about missing the “Day of Christ” because the “rescue mission” (outbound departure) must happen FIRST!
But why then did Paul not say it clearly? Why then didn’t he simply HAMMER the point home in the text so there would be no confusion on the issue?
HE DID!
The problem here is that the “get thee behind me Satan” issue has once again corrupted our understanding of the Bible! Paul told them FLAT OUT that they didn’t have to worry about the “Day of Christ” passing them by because it WOULD NOT COME until first there was an …..
OUTBOUND DEPARTURE
APO STASIA
APO = OUTBOUND or FROM
STASIA = DEPARTURE
If you are at all like me, you resist such major changes in your understanding of scripture. You immediately dismiss them because you have been taught otherwise for decades and this simply cannot be correct. After all, your precious King James wouldn’t say “falling away” if this were not true. Right? …. wrong.
Not only does virtually every Bible written prior to the 1611 King James use the term “DEPARTURE” (instead of falling away), but the Kenneth Wuest Expanded New Testament of today does too. And if you don’t know who Kenneth Wuest is, then you have no idea who the world’s greatest Greek scholar is either.
Here is the Kenneth Wuest Expanded New Testament translation on 2 Thessalonians chapter 2:1-4.
2 Thessalonians Chapter 2
MAKES 100% SENSE
Paul wasn’t beating around the bush. The “rapture” / “harpazo” / “calling up” wasn’t being suppressed surreptitiously in the text … NO! Paul was saying it FLAT OUT the whole time and we’ve been intentionally deceived by the Lucifer’s minions, and unwittingly deceived by the “theologians” that don’t want to “rock the boat”; even if it means many people will not be “holy” and “righteous enough” to make the rapture as a result.
First it’s important for you to understand that the “harpazo” / “rapturos” / “calling up” or “gathering together” can happen at any moment now. There is absolutely no question about it. If you are like me, you tend to look at scriptural time-lines and estimate when the next “big event” will occur.
When studying 2 Thessalonians chapter 2, you see Paul instructing people just like us. Back then people had quit their jobs and were freaking out that the Day of “Christ” might have already happened and they “missed it”. REALLY? Hmmm. That says a lot. Paul had to hammer the point home to get these people to “chill out”. Later in the chapter he tells people if they don’t work, they don’t eat. The situation was serious. The entire purpose of 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 was to calm everyone down and explain to them CLEARLY that they need not fret about missing the “Day of Christ” because the “rescue mission” (outbound departure) must happen FIRST!
But why then did Paul not say it clearly? Why then didn’t he simply HAMMER the point home in the text so there would be no confusion on the issue?
HE DID!
The problem here is that the “get thee behind me Satan” issue has once again corrupted our understanding of the Bible! Paul told them FLAT OUT that they didn’t have to worry about the “Day of Christ” passing them by because it WOULD NOT COME until first there was an …..
OUTBOUND DEPARTURE
APO STASIA
APO = OUTBOUND or FROM
STASIA = DEPARTURE
If you are at all like me, you resist such major changes in your understanding of scripture. You immediately dismiss them because you have been taught otherwise for decades and this simply cannot be correct. After all, your precious King James wouldn’t say “falling away” if this were not true. Right? …. wrong.
Not only does virtually every Bible written prior to the 1611 King James use the term “DEPARTURE” (instead of falling away), but the Kenneth Wuest Expanded New Testament of today does too. And if you don’t know who Kenneth Wuest is, then you have no idea who the world’s greatest Greek scholar is either.
Here is the Kenneth Wuest Expanded New Testament translation on 2 Thessalonians chapter 2:1-4.
2 Thess 2:1
2 1-4 Now, I am requesting you, brethren, with regard to the coming and personal presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, even our being assembled together to Him, not soon to become unsettled, the source of this unsettled state being your minds, neither be thrown into confusion, either by a spirit [a believer in the Christian assembly claiming the authority of divine revelation and claiming to give the saints a word from God], or through a word [received personally] as from us or through a letter falsely alleged to be written by us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come and is now present. Do not begin to allow anyone to lead you astray in any way, because that day shall not come except the aforementioned departure [of the Church to heaven] comes first and the man of the lawlessness is disclosed [in his true identity], the son of perdition, he who sets himself in opposition to and exalts himself above everyone and everything that is called a god or that is an object of worship, so that he seats himself in the inner sanctuary of God, proclaiming himself to be deity.
(from The New Testament: An Expanded Translation by Kenneth S. Wuest Copyright © 1961 by Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. All rights reserved.)
Be Advised: The bold emphasis was added by me, however the entire text including the bracketed portion “[of the Church to heaven]” is included in the translation.
For the first time in my life, after more than 30 years of Pentecostal / Non-Denominational, arguably advanced Bible teachings and self-study …2 1-4 Now, I am requesting you, brethren, with regard to the coming and personal presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, even our being assembled together to Him, not soon to become unsettled, the source of this unsettled state being your minds, neither be thrown into confusion, either by a spirit [a believer in the Christian assembly claiming the authority of divine revelation and claiming to give the saints a word from God], or through a word [received personally] as from us or through a letter falsely alleged to be written by us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come and is now present. Do not begin to allow anyone to lead you astray in any way, because that day shall not come except the aforementioned departure [of the Church to heaven] comes first and the man of the lawlessness is disclosed [in his true identity], the son of perdition, he who sets himself in opposition to and exalts himself above everyone and everything that is called a god or that is an object of worship, so that he seats himself in the inner sanctuary of God, proclaiming himself to be deity.
(from The New Testament: An Expanded Translation by Kenneth S. Wuest Copyright © 1961 by Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. All rights reserved.)
Be Advised: The bold emphasis was added by me, however the entire text including the bracketed portion “[of the Church to heaven]” is included in the translation.
2 Thessalonians Chapter 2
MAKES 100% SENSE
Paul wasn’t beating around the bush. The “rapture” / “harpazo” / “calling up” wasn’t being suppressed surreptitiously in the text … NO! Paul was saying it FLAT OUT the whole time and we’ve been intentionally deceived by the Lucifer’s minions, and unwittingly deceived by the “theologians” that don’t want to “rock the boat”; even if it means many people will not be “holy” and “righteous enough” to make the rapture as a result.
DutchChristian
Member
You are in error regarding the word apostacy.
Apostacy does not mean departure of the churcj to heaven it does not mean the rapture.
G646
apostasia: defection, revolt
Original Word: ἀποστασία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apostasia
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-os-tas-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: defection, apostasy
Definition: defection, apostasy, revolt.
It does not say departure, and apostacy is desertion from the faith and not from earth up into the heavens, it is a falling away not a falling upward.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Thess. 2:3
falling away from the faith not a falling away up into heaven!
Take care now.
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Tribulation
Member
rapture doctrine
The Rapture is complete FICTION.
NONE of the various Bibles even say the word "rapture"
It's a bunch of made up non sense "doctrine"
The Rapture is complete FICTION.
NONE of the various Bibles even say the word "rapture"
It's a bunch of made up non sense "doctrine"
lawrenceb
Member
Take heed that no man deceive you
The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain pre-conceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be "gathered" at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn't in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn't even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.
In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God the Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says "He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 6:24, 28, 29 KJV) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those "that have done good," and a resurrection for those "that have done evil."
In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall "be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." (Luke 14:14 KJV) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.
Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, "that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." (Acts 24:15 KJV) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2 KJV)
Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to "the first resurrection." (Rev 20:5 KJV) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Rev 20:4 KJV)
In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." (Rev 20:5 KJV) Later in the chapter John says, "when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged..." (Rev 20:7, 12 KJV) These verses plainly state that there are 2 resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.
The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall "reign with him a thousand years." (Rev 20:6 KJV)
The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain pre-conceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be "gathered" at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn't in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn't even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.
In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God the Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says "He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." (John 6:24, 28, 29 KJV) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those "that have done good," and a resurrection for those "that have done evil."
In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall "be recompensed at the resurrection of the just." (Luke 14:14 KJV) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.
Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, "that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust." (Acts 24:15 KJV) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, "many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." (Daniel 12:2 KJV)
Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to "the first resurrection." (Rev 20:5 KJV) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they "lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (Rev 20:4 KJV)
In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." (Rev 20:5 KJV) Later in the chapter John says, "when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged..." (Rev 20:7, 12 KJV) These verses plainly state that there are 2 resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.
The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall "reign with him a thousand years." (Rev 20:6 KJV)
grandma dolittl
Member
Dutch Christian,
I agree with your interpretataion of "falling away". In the US, the falling away has happened big time. Small country churches that was full of Christians fifty years ago are shutting their doors due to the lack of members. Large churches are bringing in the world to attract young people. I know of a church that had a pool party and a bikini contest, with the pasture as the judge. Mega churches are preaching 'love" only and not about the cost of sin or that hell exist. 'Falling away" mean leaving the faith. You can be a member of a church, donate money, do charitable things for the community, but if you are not doing this to glorify God, but to inhance your standing in the community... they you are part of the 'falling away."
I agree with your interpretataion of "falling away". In the US, the falling away has happened big time. Small country churches that was full of Christians fifty years ago are shutting their doors due to the lack of members. Large churches are bringing in the world to attract young people. I know of a church that had a pool party and a bikini contest, with the pasture as the judge. Mega churches are preaching 'love" only and not about the cost of sin or that hell exist. 'Falling away" mean leaving the faith. You can be a member of a church, donate money, do charitable things for the community, but if you are not doing this to glorify God, but to inhance your standing in the community... they you are part of the 'falling away."
Jesus will not arrive to collect us until two events occur.
Paul points out to the Thessalonians what specifically
these two events are.
2 Thessalonians 2
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first,
and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, 0
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
1) The apostasy (desertion from Jesus) will take place.
2) The man of lawlessness is revealed.
So the Thessalonian church can relax, it is impossible
for the gathering together (rapture) to occur until the events above
come to pass.
Jari is correct.
Paul points out to the Thessalonians what specifically
these two events are.
2 Thessalonians 2
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first,
and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, 0
so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
1) The apostasy (desertion from Jesus) will take place.
2) The man of lawlessness is revealed.
So the Thessalonian church can relax, it is impossible
for the gathering together (rapture) to occur until the events above
come to pass.
Jari is correct.
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brakelite
Member
And if the falling away and the appearance of the 'man of sin' is one and the same event, and it has already happened, then....?
grandma dolittl
Member
they aren't the same event, but two seperate events. the falling away is currently going one, but the man of sin is still unknown.
Hello brakelite.
2 Thessalonians 2
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him
1 Thessalonians 4
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
2 Thessalonians 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
None of the above has happened yet brakelite.
There has been a light falling away but not to the extent that will occur.
The MAN of wickedness has not been revealed.
This man of lawlessness will take over the whole world and
he is not an institution, he is a "man".
2 Thessalonians 2
Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him
1 Thessalonians 4
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
2 Thessalonians 1
6 For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
None of the above has happened yet brakelite.
There has been a light falling away but not to the extent that will occur.
The MAN of wickedness has not been revealed.
This man of lawlessness will take over the whole world and
he is not an institution, he is a "man".
Michael Snow
Member
Yes, how Christians ignore this to come up with aberant views amazes me.
grandma dolittl
Member
We need to live each day as if the Rapture may occur any second. If we are wrong and there is no Rapture, then we are better off than those who doubted. As for me, I believe in the Rapture.
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Green Berean
Member
double post....
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