Curtis
Loyal
Is being born again once enough?
The real big problem with a non-OSAS belief
- Thread starter KingJ
- Start date
B-A-C
Loyal
Not always.
Matt 25:8 "The foolish said to the prudent, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'
Matt 25:9 "But the prudent answered, 'No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.'
Matt 25:10 "And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.
Matt 25:11 "Later the other virgins also came, saying, 'Lord, lord, open up for us.'
B-A-C
Loyal
2Jn 1:8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Anyone who goes too far and does not remain in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
1Cor 9:26 Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air;
1Cor 9:27 but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.
Curtis
Loyal
Fake, false brothers sure look real according to their outward appearance.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’
Mat 25:10 And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’
Mat 25:12 But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’
B-A-C
Loyal
The ONLY difference between the wise and the foolish, was that the foolish ran out of oil.
2Pet 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
2Pet 2:21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
2Pet 2:22 It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire."
Rom 11:19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Dylan569
Active
Do you really mean to write "Agreed, but no where does it say it wasn't." So, if the scripture does not say it, but you wish to believe it, you will just ADD to scripture what is not there.
Pro 30:5 Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.
Pro 30:6 Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
B-A-C
Loyal
Good question, but we do know the devil used to be in heaven, before he was cast out.
Luke 10:18 And He said to them, "I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.
Ezek 28:14 "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there. You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezek 28:15 "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.
Ezek 28:16 "By the abundance of your trade You were internally filled with violence, And you sinned; Therefore I have cast you as profane From the mountain of God. And I have destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the stones of fire.
Isa 14:12 "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!
Isa 14:13 "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north.
Matt 13:40 "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.
Matt 13:41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,
Just because you're in the kingdom of heaven, is no guarantee you will remain there.
Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war,
Rev 12:8 and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
th1bill
Active
As I recall, there was uncertainty that names in The Book of Life could be permanent, and if Yehovah knows that one will leave his or her first love, why would He bother to record their names anyway. I'm sorry, but my input in that post is the crux of the matter.
KingJ
Loyal
The book of life XD.
Another topic that a vast majority of Christians just completely and utterly fail at grasping.
Fact 1 - Everybody's name is in the book of life from birth.
We know this because all children go to heaven (Matt 19:14 + A study on a number of scriptures + common sense).
Fact 2 - If you are alive, chances are extremely high that your name is still in the book of life
We know this as the devil roams looking for who He can devour 1 Pet 5:8. As such, if God gives up on you, IE removes your name, the devil has a green light to pay you a visit and or God will remove you from earth.
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Judas's name was in the book of life, this does not in anyway shape or form equate to him being a Christian. it may have been removed when he betrayed Jesus. We cannot know for sure. We do not know how his last prayer to God went. The evidence points to it not going well as I would think that if he repented, he would not have hanged himself. Becoming a Christian does not result in your name being placed therein. It is more a case of it now being an impossibility for God to remove it as you have met the criteria needed for it to remain therein.
Curtis
Loyal
If God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have different functions within the Godhead head then each member should have their own book in which they keep track for themselves, and in the end they should all agree together with each other. This is an interesting scripture here.....
1Jn 5:7 FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (KJV)
Some scholars do not believe that the verses, “ in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost....” as some of the oldest original texts have them omitted. It makes no difference because the word “testify” which most translations use means “to bear record, or bear witness”. This means each member of the Godhead would have its own book, in which “RECORDS” are kept.
I will give you my understanding on this subject.
The “BOOK OF LIFE” is what God the Father uses to keep track of all who have been born on planet Earth. If a person dies without ever accepting Jesus Christ as their savior, that person's name is “blotted” out from the Book of Life. We know this to be true because of this scripture.....
20:15 And IF ANYONE'S NAME WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, HE WAS THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
A person's name must appear in the Book of Life, or they are cast into the lake of fire!!! Names are being added to, and taken away every day from this Book.
Then we have the “LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE”. I wonder to whom this book belongs? This is Jesus's own book, and all the names written in it were written before the foundation of the world. No one's name can ever be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life!! There are no scriptures anywhere in the Bible that says any name can be blotted out of this Book. The reason why is that God already knows every single person who will accept Jesus as their Savior, and he knew this before the foundation of the world.
Just because someone's name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life, that does not mean they have no choice in choosing Jesus as their savior. All the names in this book have been given a free will choice to choose to whom they will serve, it's just God already knew what their choice was going to be, so he wrote them into this Book!!
Rev 21:27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it (The Holy City of God) , nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE.
Rev 13:8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone WHOSE NAME HAS NOT BEEN WRITTEN BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB who was slain.
During the “tribulations” period every person whose name was NOT written in the Book of Life of the Lamb from the foundation of the world will worship the beast.
Then we have a book called, “THE BOOK OF REMEMBRANCE”. I believe this book belongs to the Holy Spirit because Jesus once said that when the Holy Spirit comes, he will bring to our remembrance everything he has spoken to us. Every time a person thinks about the Lord his God, and talks about him, everything is recorded in this book......
Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and A BOOK OF REMEMBRANCE WAS WRITTEN BEFORE HIM FOR THEM THAT FEARED THE LORD, AND THAT THOUGHT UPON HIS NAME.
I do not think the Lord forgets anything, except for our sins that we have confessed before him, nor does he need remembering what we have said, or thought. I think it is for our benefit that he keeps these records.(books) In the end, the only names that will be found in the Book of Life, and the Lamb's Book of Life will be his Church. The Holy Spirit will bear witness to these truths by bringing forth all that we have said and thought throughout our life here on earth.
There are three that bear RECORD the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and they all three agree in one.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
1Jn 5:7 FOR THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (KJV)
Some scholars do not believe that the verses, “ in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost....” as some of the oldest original texts have them omitted. It makes no difference because the word “testify” which most translations use means “to bear record, or bear witness”. This means each member of the Godhead would have its own book, in which “RECORDS” are kept.
I will give you my understanding on this subject.
The “BOOK OF LIFE” is what God the Father uses to keep track of all who have been born on planet Earth. If a person dies without ever accepting Jesus Christ as their savior, that person's name is “blotted” out from the Book of Life. We know this to be true because of this scripture.....
20:15 And IF ANYONE'S NAME WAS NOT FOUND WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, HE WAS THROWN INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE.
A person's name must appear in the Book of Life, or they are cast into the lake of fire!!! Names are being added to, and taken away every day from this Book.
Then we have the “LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE”. I wonder to whom this book belongs? This is Jesus's own book, and all the names written in it were written before the foundation of the world. No one's name can ever be blotted out of the Lamb's Book of Life!! There are no scriptures anywhere in the Bible that says any name can be blotted out of this Book. The reason why is that God already knows every single person who will accept Jesus as their Savior, and he knew this before the foundation of the world.
Just because someone's name is written in the Lamb's Book of Life, that does not mean they have no choice in choosing Jesus as their savior. All the names in this book have been given a free will choice to choose to whom they will serve, it's just God already knew what their choice was going to be, so he wrote them into this Book!!
Rev 21:27 But nothing unclean will ever enter it (The Holy City of God) , nor anyone who does what is detestable or false, but ONLY THOSE WHO ARE WRITTEN IN THE LAMB'S BOOK OF LIFE.
Rev 13:8 and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone WHOSE NAME HAS NOT BEEN WRITTEN BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD IN THE BOOK OF LIFE OF THE LAMB who was slain.
During the “tribulations” period every person whose name was NOT written in the Book of Life of the Lamb from the foundation of the world will worship the beast.
Then we have a book called, “THE BOOK OF REMEMBRANCE”. I believe this book belongs to the Holy Spirit because Jesus once said that when the Holy Spirit comes, he will bring to our remembrance everything he has spoken to us. Every time a person thinks about the Lord his God, and talks about him, everything is recorded in this book......
Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and A BOOK OF REMEMBRANCE WAS WRITTEN BEFORE HIM FOR THEM THAT FEARED THE LORD, AND THAT THOUGHT UPON HIS NAME.
I do not think the Lord forgets anything, except for our sins that we have confessed before him, nor does he need remembering what we have said, or thought. I think it is for our benefit that he keeps these records.(books) In the end, the only names that will be found in the Book of Life, and the Lamb's Book of Life will be his Church. The Holy Spirit will bear witness to these truths by bringing forth all that we have said and thought throughout our life here on earth.
There are three that bear RECORD the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and they all three agree in one.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
KingJ
Loyal
I can agree with all this, no disagreement.
I recall a discussion about two years back. We went into all the scriptures and the consensus was that the book of life had a name change to the Lambs book of life. Jesus took ownership of the book. Only in Revelations do we see the term 'Lamb's book of life' used.
The only item I would ever disagree with someone on is if they say your name was not from birth, written in the book of life.
MedicBravo
Active
Yes. OSAS but....a person can reject the offer of salvation that Jesus offers.
If a person didn't "truly" believe, ask for salvation, and their life didn't change they NEVER had it.
God is SO perfect, good, loving, holy, just, etc. that if a person does NOT want God bad enough He'll let them have what they want.
There is no middle ground. There is no "purgatory". That is Catholic nonsense.
If a person didn't "truly" believe, ask for salvation, and their life didn't change they NEVER had it.
God is SO perfect, good, loving, holy, just, etc. that if a person does NOT want God bad enough He'll let them have what they want.
There is no middle ground. There is no "purgatory". That is Catholic nonsense.
Curtis
Loyal
Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
2Ti 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
It appears all those who belong to Jesus were chosen before anyone was ever born.
Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
2Ti 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
It appears all those who belong to Jesus were chosen before anyone was ever born.
B-A-C
Loyal
Of course those of us who don't buy into the predestination, God has favoritism with some over others story.
God chose everyone to be saved.
2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
1Tim 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
But He gives people the free-will to reject Him if they want to.
God chose everyone to be saved.
2Pet 3:9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
1Tim 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Tim 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
But He gives people the free-will to reject Him if they want to.
the way is narrow and few find it.
my estimate is 2-3% will end up in a favorable judgement.
KingJ
Loyal
Sure, but that is a separate topic.
th1bill
Active
All of this is not likely to be true because Yehovah knows the end from the beginning and He knows when and how each of us will pass over and has known from before creation. (Isaiah 46:9-10) Not cherry picking, there are other references.
If 3% is your definition of many...