The Torah Has Not Been Abolished

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I know why, because you do not like the Torah and want to remain in your lawlessness.

Friend your arrogance is getting old!!

 

[povawiqe]

Wow by what you have written condemns you for NO MAN other then Jesus has ever or will ever keep the book of the old law perfectly.

Your very own thinking here does away with Grace through Jesus and puts it back on the "Works of Man"

Bad move!!

All have sinned, but just because all have sinned does not mean a man cannot obey the Torah perfectly going forward. It would be like telling a thief, "you can never stop stealing because you're a thief!". Certainly a thief can stop stealing, just because he stole all his life does not mean he cannot stop stealing. Even Paul said, "I was a Hebrew of Hebrews, and as to the Torah, a Pharisee, and as to righteousness according to the Torah, I was perfect". Even Noah was called "perfect" in his generation. Clearly you do not understand the expectation God has from those who enter into a covenant with him, which is why God told Abraham, "walk before me and be perfect, that I may establish my covenant with you", and also why the Messiah said, "be perfect", and even when the apostles said, "that we may present every man perfect in the Messiah Yeshuah". God wants perfection from us, not lawlessness. The Messiah did not die so that all of a sudden we may be excused to disobey the Torah that God established to define everything that is sin. You are in serious error, to your own destruction.

 

[povawiqe]

Friend your arrogance is getting old!!

It is your lawlessness and stubbornness that is getting old. I will continue speaking the truth against false believers who say the Torah has been abolished, because it is a destructive teaching. Even a proverb says, "whoever stops listening to the Torah, even his prayer is an abomination", because of how serious it is to discard the Torah that defines all that is sin.

 

[Christ4Ever]

The Messiah died to perfect his people, through his blood, which the blood of animals was never able to do, which is why it is written, "he has perfected in perpetuity those who are set apart". The standard of righteousness became higher with the Messiah, not lesser, as if the mercy and forgiveness that is currently found in the Messiah is now an excuse to become lawless, but quite the opposite, it is an opportunity to become righteous and perfect, as he has required "be perfect", and anything less than this, will be greater wrath than the Israelites experienced in their disobedience in the desert.

Then the question by your words and standard which are required of you. Are you Perfect? Having followed the Torah in all it's requirements? If yes God bless you and I pray you will always be able to do so, without falter. For the consequences you have yoked yourself to, in the letter of the Law is unforgiving. That you require more than Christ Crucified to be Saved through Him is admirable, but unnecessary and to me diminishes His Obedience and Sacrifice as being insufficient to the task.

For it is not my righteousness, but His that God will see when I am judged. Whose will God see when He looks at you?

I am not "lawless", for the Love that binds me as no Law can and is superior to any Law without it. For it is compassionate, forgiving, full of Grace in power, Mercy in its application, and giver of Life Eternal through Christ Jesus gifted. That you may find that it is not the Letter of the Law, but the Spirit of the Law that will bless you and not condemn you.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

Friend your arrogance is getting old!!

Don't let it brother.
I love you! :smile:

I also love him too! Though he may not quite believe that I even understand the meaning of the word. :smile:
You're allowed to smile as well Brother Povawiqe

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Don't let it brother.
I love you! :smile:

I also love him too! Though he may not quite believe that I even understand the meaning word. :smile:
You're allowed to smile as well Brother Povawiqe

Amen!

 

[povawiqe]

Then the question by your words and standard which are required of you. Are you Perfect? Having followed the Torah in all it's requirements? If yes God bless you and I pray you will always be able to do so, without falter. For the consequences you have yoked yourself to, in the letter of the Law is unforgiving. That you require more than Christ Crucified to be Saved through Him is admirable, but unnecessary and to me diminishes His Obedience and Sacrifice as being insufficient to the task.

For it is not my righteousness, but His that God will see when I am judged. Whose will God see when He looks at you?

I am not "lawless", for the Love that binds me as no Law can and is superior to any Law without it. For it is compassionate, forgiving, full of Grace in power, Mercy in its application, and giver of Life Eternal through Christ Jesus gifted. That you may find that it is not the Letter of the Law, but the Spirit of the Law that will bless you and not condemn you.

With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother.
YBIC
Nick
<><

Perfection is necessary, not unnecessary, which is why the Messiah said "be perfect". And although one can come to obey the commands of the Torah perfectly, true perfection comes through belief in Yeshuah, who then sends his airflow once a man comes into the perfect obedience of the Torah, and then frees him from sin, which then renders him dead to the Torah, because he is no longer enslaved to what held him captive, which is sin, and this is why whoever becomes born of God by receiving the airflow of God cannot sin. Unless you become freed from sin in this way, you cannot inherit the kingdom of God, which is why the Messiah said, "every man who sins is a slave to sin, and a slave does not reside in the house permanently, but a son belongs to it aeonially, so if the son sets you free, you shall be free indeed".

 

[KingJ]

It is your lawlessness and stubbornness that is getting old. I will continue speaking the truth against false believers who say the Torah has been abolished, because it is a destructive teaching. Even a proverb says, "whoever stops listening to the Torah, even his prayer is an abomination", because of how serious it is to discard the Torah that defines all that is sin.

Povawiqe, nobody is saying the Torah is abolished.

I also don't believe others grasp that you are not pushing the OT over the NT. Kind of odd, but I agree with all you have said and all others have said too. I don't see any conflict.

I do feel though that a Jew would need to respect something like the Sabbath. Not a non Jew.

The only verse you need to quote to people is Mal 3:6 'I the Lord do not change'.

 

[povawiqe]

Povawiqe, nobody is saying the Torah is abolished.

I also don't believe others grasp that you are not pushing the OT over the NT. Kind of odd, but I agree with all you have said and all others have said too. I don't see any conflict.

I do feel though that a Jew would need to respect something like the Sabbath. Not a non Jew.

The only verse you need to quote to people is Mal 3:6 'I the Lord do not change'.

God does not change, but creation does change, because it is "created". Why do you suppose God is creating a "new" heaven and "new" earth, if not to bring "new" things into existence, for the enjoyment of his people? The weekly Shabbath was a sign of the old covenant with Moses, which is no longer necessary for those under the new covenant to observe, whose sign is the circumcision of the heart.

 

[KingJ]

God does not change, but creation does change, because it is "created". Why do you suppose God is creating a "new" heaven and "new" earth, if not to bring "new" things into existence, for the enjoyment of his people? The weekly Shabbath was a sign of the old covenant with Moses, which is no longer necessary for those under the new covenant to observe, whose sign is the circumcision of the heart.

The Sabbath was also to give thanks for helping them escape Egypt. I imagine it as a compulsory Christmas celebration. Sure not compulsory now, but still disrespectful to not celebrate / consider. Especially since in the OT God's feeling on the matter was the death penalty Exo 31:14.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Perfection is necessary, not unnecessary, which is why the Messiah said "be perfect". And although one can come to obey the commands of the Torah perfectly, true perfection comes through belief in Yeshuah, who then sends his airflow once a man comes into the perfect obedience of the Torah, and then frees him from sin, which then renders him dead to the Torah, because he is no longer enslaved to what held him captive, which is sin, and this is why whoever becomes born of God by receiving the airflow of God cannot sin. Unless you become freed from sin in this way, you cannot inherit the kingdom of God, which is why the Messiah said, "every man who sins is a slave to sin, and a slave does not reside in the house permanently, but a son belongs to it aeonially, so if the son sets you free, you shall be free indeed".

You'll achieve that perfection brother, but if you believe that is by your own power or by following the Letter of the Law. You will always fall short of it, unless you realize that it is by His Power that molds you to that Perfection, and that the Spirit of the Law is but a component of the Love of God that set the foundation you have been built upon through Christ Jesus.

Found this for you. Less the video and more the Words that are communicated there in. I'm not blind to you brother.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[povawiqe]

The Sabbath was also to give thanks for helping them escape Egypt. I imagine it as a compulsory Christmas celebration. Sure not compulsory now, but still disrespectful to not celebrate / consider. Especially since in the OT God's feeling on the matter was the death penalty Exo 31:14.

The Shabbath is not a "thanks for helping them escape Egypt", it is a rest that God has commanded, on the 7th day, which he set apart, which foreshadows the millennial Shabbath, which is the last thousands years that have been set apart for this earth as a time of rest also. Be careful in what you say and don't just utter the first thing that comes into your head without first thinking it through. There is precision and logic and intelligence and wisdom in why God set apart the 7th day, which goes way back before the Israelites were delivered from the Egyptians, and it was to foreshadow how long he appointed for the existence of this heaven and earth, 7,000 total years.

 

[povawiqe]

You'll achieve that perfection brother, but if you believe that is by your own power or by following the Letter of the Law. You will always fall short of it, unless you realize that it is by His Power that molds you to that Perfection, and that the Spirit of the Law is but a component of the Love of God that set the foundation you have been built upon through Christ Jesus.

Found this for you. Less the video and more the Words that are communicated there in. I'm not blind to you brother.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

You still do not understand. The airflow of God perfects a man, causing him to never sin again.

 

[Christ4Ever]

You still do not understand. The airflow of God perfects a man, causing him to never sin again.

.........and I said it is by His Power and not your own.

 

[povawiqe]

.........and I said it is by His Power and not your own.

No, not by his power, by his airflow, hence,

So he said to me, "This is the word of Yehovah to Zerubbabel: 'Not by my might nor by my power, but by my airflow,' says Yehovah Almighty.
Zechariah 4:6

You can only be freed from sin and caused to never sin again by the airflow of God. If you still sin, then you have not received his airflow.

 

[Christ4Ever]

No, not by his power, by his airflow, hence,

So he said to me, "This is the word of Yehovah to Zerubbabel: 'Not by my might nor by my power, but by my airflow,' says Yehovah Almighty.
Zechariah 4:6

You can only be freed from sin and caused to never sin again by the airflow of God. If you still sin, then you have not received his airflow.

And you interpret Zechariah 4:6 to mean that you will be made without sin?

 

[povawiqe]

And you interpret Zechariah 4:6 to mean that you will be made without sin?

No, I interpret these passages to mean that those who receive the airflow of God are caused to never sin again,

70 weeks are decreed for your people and your set-apart city, to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for lawlessness… and to anoint the most set-apart one… Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of the Messiah, the ruler, there will be 7 weeks and 62 weeks.
Daniel 9:24-25

And she shall bear a son, and you shall call his name Yeshuah, for he shall deliver his people from their sins.
Matthew 1:21

for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the aeons to do away away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 9:26

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Romans 6:18

But now, having been set free from sin, and having become servants of Elohim, you have your fruit resulting in set-apartness, and the end, aeonial life.
Romans 6:22

Yeshuah replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it to the aeon. So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
John 8:34-36

And I will give you a new heart, and a new airflow I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my airflow within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my judgments.
Ezekiel 36:26-27

in order that the righteous requirement of the Torah might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the airflow.
Romans 8:4

For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the ones having been set apart.
Hebrews 10:14

…and to the airflows of the righteous, who have been made perfect.
Hebrews 12:23

In Him you were also circumcised… with the circumcision performed by the Messiah and not made by the hands of man.
Colossians 2:11

No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the airflow, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.
Romans 2:29

according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, becoming set apart of the airflow, for obedience to Yeshuah Messiah and for sprinkling with his blood: May favor and peace be multiplied to you.
1 Peter 1:2

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the airflow, if indeed the airflow of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the airflow of the Messiah, they do not belong to the Messiah.
Romans 8:9

For through the airflow by belief we eagerly await the hope of righteousness.
Galatians 5:5

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
2 Corinthians 5:21

Don’t be astonished that I told you, ‘All of you must be born from above.’ The airflow blows where it wants to. You hear its sound, but you don’t know where it comes from or where it is going. That’s the way it is with everyone who is born of the airflow.”
John 3:7-8

Yeshuah answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the airflow.
John 3:5

Whosoever is born of God does not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:9

We know that every one born of God does not sin; but the one born of God keeps himself, and the evil one does not touch him.
1 John 5:18

You therefore be perfect, as your father, the one in the heavens is perfect.
Matthew 5:48

 

[Christ4Ever]

No, I interpret these passages to mean that those who receive the airflow of God are caused to never sin again,

So, you have not broken the Torah, since I'm figuring that doing so is sinning, since you have received the Holy Spirit?

 

[povawiqe]

So, you have not broken the Torah, since I'm figuring that doing so is sinning, since you have received the Holy Spirit?

I have not yet received the anointing, but I am about to, God willing, and once I do, I will be freed from sin and caused to never sin again, according to these writings I have quoted.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I have not yet received the anointing, but I am about to, God willing, and once I do, I will be freed from sin and caused to never sin again, according to these writings I have quoted.

From your lips to God's ears according to the Word of God that His will be done through you brother. In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen.