The true church

[truth speaker]

Just a question of thought,so many different religions,churches,and denominations what are your opinions on the true church
and where do you find yourself

I'm not interested in slander or disrespectful remarks remember this is a Christian forum

 

[brakelite]

We are living in the last days. Would any one disagree with that? The church of the last days is described in

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

What is the testimony of Jesus? The angel tells us

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

The above is confirmed here:

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Find a church that is prophetic in nature and operates that gift within her, that's keeping God's commandments and have the faith of and faith in Jesus, I don't think you will go far wrong.

 

[JehovahDaughter]

I think you might mislead a newbie Christian by telling them to find a "prophetic" church; like you said, these are the last days. There are a lot of churches that prophesy things that never come to pass; usually things in the future and people who are around to check the future prophecies realise that their "prophecies" are bogus. I think personally that the important thing is a Bible believing church, a church that is free from man-made doctrines(this might prove to be hard in this day and age) and a church that follows the word of God as it is written in the Bible. Not a church that picks and chooses where they want to believe in the bible and disregard everything else; but a Church that accepts the whole bible(Genesis to Revelation) as the infallible word of God.

 

[truth speaker]

Sorry maybe ishould have stated from the start of this thread that i myself have followed after the Lord Jesus Christ in all aspects of life for several years,so i apologize for any confusion!!!!!

In the book of Ephesians ch 4 vs 5 (One Lord,one faith,one baptism,) KJV
My thought was what is the true church and where do you find yourself (your church,your walk)

 

[brakelite]

I would hazard a guess that we all belong to a church we have personally discovered to be closest to the Biblical model. We are doing ourselves a misjustice, and puttting ourselves in danger, if we do not search until we find such a church. Settling for a 'this will do' church isn't good enough. I do agree with you Jehovahsdaughter. The whole Biblical model for a NT church ought to be used.
I simply used those scriptures because they are God's own description of the last days church. So if keeping His commandments and having faith in Jesus are important to Him, then I guess they should be important to us. Going by some of the threads on this forum however, as soon as someone mentions obedience, the objections flow from all quarters.

 

[truth speaker]

Disobedience is a sign of rebellion that comes from people who don,t want change,that subject goes all the way back to the days of Jesus
In hearing they did not hear,in seeing they did not see,this is the very reason Jesus was crucified because the church then did not want change
The problem is 2 Timothy 3 vs 7 (Ever learning ,and never coming to the knowledge of the truth)

 

[Christ4Ever]

The following is something put together not too long ago in a discussion I was having with someone who is Catholic and believes there's the only one true church. In looking at this subject, it became apparent that church in scripture is identified specific to locations, but more importantly to a body of believers at said locations. Even Revelations in the letters to the churches (multiple) deals with the behaviors of the congregations, not one shoe fits all as is the inclination with most denominations. The church I currently attend, never did answer this question when posed to them So through reading and praying the conclusion to me is that there is a Universal Church (My term only.), but not one which has ceilings, walls, or any worldly attributes we look to infuse in it.

Nothing like the fellowship, and worshiping with other believers! My suggestion, if one is looking for one, is to seek one that is founded, and adheres to the Holy Bible, is willing to answer questions put before them, one that prays, does and not just talks about the Great Commission, in charity, service and exhibits the Love that God has shown us through His Son Jesus, to a lost and dying world.

I pray that this post may be for the edification and not a hindrance to anyone. In the name of Jesus Christ I ask this Amen.
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I have to first start defining certain words so we can see if we’re actually using the same Dictionary. It’s easy to use the same words, but as I’m coming to find out is that at times we are using different dictionaries, which might create difficulty in understanding each other. I hope you don’t mind that I tackle it in this fashion. I will attempt in every case to identify scripture or the lack of scriptural reference. Lord willing within the context of what God would have us comprehend we will find His truth.

Church
First one must define church as used in scripture. Easy to automatically provide the definition from our current perspective of what a church must be. Many people today understand the church as a building or denomination. This is not a complete biblical understanding of church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.” The root meaning of “church” is not that of a building, but of people. It is ironic that when you ask people what church they attend, they usually identify a building. The following verse I used to show Paul addressing "the church" as a body of believers and not a building/denomination. Romans 16:5 says “… greet the church that is in their house.” Paul refers to the church in their house—not a church building, but a body of believers.

How does one come to this? First one must see who the Creator of the Church is.

Jesus Christ Co-Creator
You can see this clearly that the church is the body of Christ, of which He is the head in the following scripture reading.

Ephesians 1:22-23 says, “And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.”

Holy Spirit Co-Creator
Keep in mind as well that the Holy Spirit was co-creator of the church.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Ephesians 2:19-22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; (20) And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; (21) In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: (22) In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Where is this "...habitation of God through the Spirit."?

Body of Christ
The phrase “the Body of Christ” is a common New Testament metaphor for the Church (all those who are truly saved).

Romans 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
1 Corinthians 10:17 For we [being] many are one bread, [and] one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
1 Corinthians 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Hebrews 13:3 Remember them that are in bonds, as bound with them; [and] them which suffer adversity, as being yourselves also in the body.
Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
Ephesians 4:3-6 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. (4) [There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; (5) One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (6) One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.

Our need to name things I believe is a Godly direction, that goes all the way back to Genesis. So in this light, for lack of giving the church a specific name or one so general as just "church" which might not be so bad as long as we know the builder and who resides there, I'll add one.

Universal Church
The universal church consists of all believers in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 12:13 “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or - Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”.
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence.
Ephesians 1:22-23 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, [23] Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
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One consistency I've seen which crosses all denominations, languages, race, what have you, of believers and that is Jesus Christ. That He lived, died on the Cross, and He has Risen! I've seen this to be true, just by mentioning His name. A few years ago I was talking with a neighbors visiting family a couple who did not know English, so not understanding me were naturally distrustful of me. At least until I said "Jesus Christ", pointed up with my finger and tapped my heart. The grins that spread over their faces, and the glow! WOW! Truly One Body! Alleluia, Alleluia, Alleluia! As I mentioned when I first started, I pray this does not become a hindrance to anyone.
YBIC
C4E

 

[jiggyfly]

Just a question of thought,so many different religions,churches,and denominations what are your opinions on the true church
and where do you find yourself

I'm not interested in slander or disrespectful remarks remember this is a Christian forum

Good question and very thought provoking and hopefully it will provoke many to seek the truth by HolySpirit.
If someone searches long enough they will come to the realization that there are many differences between the christian religious institution with all of it's denominations and the ekklesia that Jesus is building.

 

[truth speaker]

The reason for my thoughts!!!! I was reading in the book of Mathew ch 7 vs 13-14 (Enter ye in at the strait gate:for wide is the gate, and broad is
the way,that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: vs 14 (Because strait is the gate,and narrow is the way, which leadeth
unto life,and few there find it.)
So there is only one body (church) that we the people of this world make up,there is one Lord,one faith,one baptism
one gospel,One body of Christ (church) that we the people of this world make up,yes several locations are mentioned in the bible,being thought
the same Gospel in conclusion they are all one body

In the self same sense in the book of Matthew ch 24 vs 34 (Verily I say unto you,This generation shall not pass,till all these things be fulfilled.)
When Jesus used the word generation,he wasn't talking about their generation he was talking about this generation of mankind in a whole
After the flood of Noah there began a new generation of people which is all people from then until present day,I pray this make sense to all who read

 

[SpiritLedEd]

The true church, I believe, is described by Jesus in Jn 4:24 "God is spirit and His worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." True worship is not limited as to place and time; it can occur anywhere at any time.

SLE

 

[SpiritLedEd]

The true church, I believe, is described by Jesus in Jn 4:24 "God is spirit and His worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." True worship is not limited as to place and time; it can occur anywhere at any time.

SLE

 

[truth speaker]

That is so true,But to worship God in spirit one must speak in an unknown tongue 1 Corinthians ch14 vs 2 (For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men,but unto God:for no man understandeth him;howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries)Also in the book of Mark ch 16 vs 17 (And these signs shall follow them that believe;In my name shall they cast out devils;they shall speak with new tongues
Speaking in new tongues is a sign of being filled with the Holy Ghost such as was done in Acts ch 2 on the day of Pentecost,the tongue is not an earthly language,it is the tongues of angles as referred to by the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians ch13 vs1 (Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angles,and have not charity, I am as a sounding brass,or a tinkling cymbal.)

 

[David777]

Some excellent responses so far methinks.

Christ4Ever nailed the definition of church.

Using a line from Christ4Evers reply;

"...exhibits the Love that God has shown us through His Son Jesus, to a lost and dying world."

A most excellent aspect is that love, greater than prophecy.

 

[EphremHagos]

Just a question of thought,so many different religions,churches,and denominations what are your opinions on the true church
and where do you find yourself

I'm not interested in slander or disrespectful remarks remember this is a Christian forum

Careful analysis of the context (Matt. 16: 13-28) presents the following picture of the true church: "a new way, a living way through the death of Jesus".
The test of the truth, based on “direct revelation by God”, is its openness to endless growth in his grace and knowledge, as in Jesus’ elaboration of Simon Peter’s initial answer to Jesus’ question.
What Jesus called “my church” is an altruistic expression for his divine identity and absolute authority, which from the beginning has been and is to date demonstrable for firsthand knowledge n his works rather than words.
The following are the building blocks of the church, a.k.a., firsthand knowledge of Jesus Christ, progressively used in the immediate and subsequent contexts.
1. Rock foundation: one whom “not even death will ever be able to overcome” (vv. 17-18)
2. “Keys” to be made known when the time came (verse 19);
3. Need for temporary secrecy (v. 20)
4. Litmus test: foretelling his suffering, death and resurrection in heavily guarded language (v. 21)
5. Additional requirement: radical change in man’s way of thinking (vv. 22-23)
6. Disciple’s burden, a.k.a., “the cross of Christ” in its true light (vv. 24-26)
7. Terms of repayment (vv. 27-28)
8. LIVE connections: two pioneering witnesses of immortality (17: 1-13)
9. Early breakthroughs: James, John and Mary of Bethany (20: 20-28; 26: 1-13)
10. Last notice (26: 26-29; 64)
11. Behold your God! (27: 50-56; Heb. 10: 19-25; Rev. 5:6)

In short, the true church is firsthand knowledge of Jesus Christ for all, as perpetually revealed in personal and life-transforming vision of his Spirit-active, perfect and transfigurative death on the cross including the diacritical marks of "the blood and the water" signifying the unique manner of his death and work of baptism in the Holy Spirit, respectively.

 

[bgsda]

Very good question and very important. There are thousands of denominations all over the world. There are many verses in the Bible that points to a true church for these end times. Like as you put in Eph.4:5. Also you'll find it in John 10:14-16 , 14 I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own. 15 As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. He's bringing them to ONE fold. Another one is Rev. 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. There are many more but as you can see He is and does have a last day true church. He loves us so He will not leave us to stay where we are and not call us out of it. Brakelite made a good point there are clues to what is His last day church is. Rev.12 the whole chapter tells like the whole story of the church and in verse 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ pretty much gives a very big clue. Theres alot more like as to what this last day church going to be doing Rev.14:

6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth--to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people-- 7 saying with a loud voice, "Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water." 8 And another angel followed, saying, "Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she has made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication." 9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." 12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. 1. They will be a global church. 2. Preaching about Judgement message 3. giving glory to Him in all things( health,etc) 4. Worshipping the true Creator (FYI:thas part of the seventh day Sabbath) 5. Teaching those who are in spiritual Babylon (confusion) to get out and not receive the mark of the beast. There are more characteristics for this last day church Truth Speaker. One important thing that could wean out alot of others is the keeping of God's Commandments mentioned 3 diff. times in Rev and many other books in N.T. Remember what Jesus said in John7:17 If anyone wants to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority. You will want to do His will to know. Hope this helps you Truth and everyone else. God bless

 

[Jaareshiah]

Just a question of thought,so many different religions,churches,and denominations what are your opinions on the true church
and where do you find yourself

I'm not interested in slander or disrespectful remarks remember this is a Christian forum

According to the Atlas of Global Christianity (2010), there are over 41,000 different denominations among almost 2.3 billion people that profess to be Christian. Yet, according to the Bible, there is only one that is genuine. The apostle Paul wrote that there is "one Lord, one faith, one baptism".(Eph 4:5)

In the Bible, the word faith is never in the plural, but only in the singular. At Acts 9:2 and 19:9, the "one faith" that Jesus established was referred to as "the Way", not ways. So what conclusion can be drawn ? That there is only "one faith" that is the true one that Jesus established, and that all the others are counterfeit.

Jesus said: "Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."(Matt 7:13, 14)

Jesus further said to "exert yourselves vigorously to get in through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will seek to get in but will not be able."(Luke 13:24) Just as there is only key that will unlock a door and one set of numbers that will unlock a safe, so likewise, there is only "one faith" that is pleasing to God.

And just as a touchstone (Lydian stone) was used to determine the content of a gold in a coin by the color of the marks made in ancient Lydia, so also there are identifying marks that determine who are genuine Christians.

Here are some ways to identify a true Christian:

(1) Jesus said at John 8:31, 32, that "If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” What It Means: Jesus ’ “word” means his teachings, which came from a higher source. Jesus said: “The Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak." (John 12:49)

In prayer to his heavenly Father, Jehovah God, Jesus said: “Your word is truth.” He frequently quoted God’s Word to support his teachings.(John 17:17; Matthew 4:4, 7, 10) True Christians, therefore, ‘remain in his word ’—that is, they accept God’s Word, the Bible, as “truth” and the ultimate authority for their beliefs and practices.

Who Fit the Pattern Today ? According to the Vatican's Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, adopted in 1965 and quoted in the Catechism of the Catholic Church: "It is not from Sacred Scripture alone that the [Catholic] Church draws her certainty about everything which has been revealed. Therefore both sacred tradition and Sacred Scripture are to be accepted and venerated with the same sense of loyalty and reverence."

Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses, the New Catholic Encyclopedia states: "They regard the Bible as their only source of belief and rule of conduct."

(2) At John 17:14, Jesus told his heavenly Father of his genuine disciples: "I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world."(John 17:14)

What it means: Being no part of the world, Jesus was neutral in the social and political conflicts of the day. "If my kingdom were part of the world, "he explained, "my attendants would have fought that I should not be delivered up to the Jews. But, as it is, my kingdom is not from this source."(John 18:36) He also urged his followers to shun attitudes, speech, and conduct condemned in God's Word.(Matt 20:25-27)

Who Fit the Pattern Today ? Regarding Christian neutrality, the New Catholic Encyclopedia asserts: "Conscientious objection is morally indefensible". An article in the Reformierte Presse (Switzerland) states that a report by African Rights, a human rights organization, on the 1994 Rwandan genocide (whereby an estimated 1.1 million were slaughtered in 100 days) established the participation of all churches , "with the exception of Jehovah's Witnesses".

(3) At John 13:34, 35, Jesus said: "I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love among yourselves.”

What it means: Christ told his followers to love one another the way he loved them. How did Jesus love them ? His love transcended the national and gender bias prevalent in his day.(John 4:7-10) Love moved Jesus to sacrifice his time, energy, and personal comfort in order to help others.(Mark 6:30-34) Finally, Christ showed love in the greatest way possible."I am the fine shepherd," he said. "The fine shepherd surrenders his soul in behalf of the sheep."(John 10:11) What religious organization has shown such love ? Catholic, Protestant, Methodist, Presbyterian ?

When World War I broke out on July 28, 1914, Catholics rose up against Catholics, Protestants against Protestants, Methodists against Methodists, Presbyterians against Presbyterians. Over a decade after the end of World War I, British Brigadier General Frank P. Crozier said: “The Christian Churches are the finest blood-lust creators which we have and of them we made free use.”(A Brass Hat in No Man’s Land, published in 1930)

Who Fit the Pattern Today ? The book The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire (by Edward Gibbon) observed that over the centuries those who professed to be Christians "have inflicted far greater severities on each other, than they had experienced from the zeal of the infidels [unbelievers]." A recent U.S. study found a strong link between religious people, most of whom identified themselves as Christian, and racial bias. What religious organization is not blood guilty, having no participation in the wars of the nations but remaining neutral, as Jesus did ?

 

[EphremHagos]

In line with the books of Moses, the writings of the prophets including the terms of the "new covenant", the one true church for all, a.k.a., "a new way, a living way", is securely sealed by the death of Jesus, exclusively spiritual and based on God's last self-revelation superseding all the the Scriptures as the unique source of belief and rule of conduct.

No religion, whatsoever (including Johovah Witnesses), can hold "the new wine" of Christ's teachings without bursting thus indicating God's righteous impartiality in his judgement. (Matt. 9: 14-17)

 

[lawrenceb]

The word nominate means:

1. to propose (someone) for appointment or election to an office;

2. to appoint to a duty or office;

3. to propose for an honor, award, or the like;

4. to name; designate.

Obviously, the born again believer would appoint/honor/name/designate exclusively Jesus Christ as the way to eternal life.

So then, what is the meaning of de-nominate???

...so many different religions,churches,and denominations what are your opinions on the true church

The purpose in this post is two-fold: First, to show that it is the denial of the scripture's absolute authority, and not its difficulty of interpretation, that has resulted in the various divisions of Christ's congregation. The Gospel is simple, it’s just that men make it complicated.

Secondly, once an absolute standard has been abandoned, there is no logic for determining right from wrong other than human logic. Whenever a congregation abandons the absolute standard of Scripture, the outcome of all religious and moral decisions is left in the hands of men. And whether these decisions are rendered by clergy, scholars, theologians, courts, synods, or membership votes, if the decisions do not come from Scripture, then they must come from people of society, and sooner or later those decisions will inevitably be influenced by society.


<center>The Holy Scripture is Sufficient

</center> It is not reasonable to maintain that God continues to speak "through the Church" or through prophets or angels or in any way other than His Holy Scriptures. Why not? Consider what the scripture itself says in this matter:

Galatians 1:8–9 "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."
​

Now if the apostles wrote down what they taught, and these writings were collected and preserved in what we now call the scripture, and then if someone else (even an angel) adds something to what the apostles wrote, aren't they teaching something "other than" what the apostles taught? You see, anyone can claim to speak for God. Anyone can say that God speaks through the Church, or through the priests or through a board of elders or even through a preacher or individual members of a congregation. But in reality, one person's claims are as good as another’s, and one congregation's opinions are as good as another's. If, however, the scripture is God's unerring word, then the one who teaches from it does not teach his opinions, but teaches the truth of God. The entire context of Galatians 1:1-16 shows how denominations are of men, and are a different gospel, and how Paul stayed away from such.


<center>Scripture condemns Denominations

</center> Religious denominations actually go contrary to scripture, because they divide Christ (1 Corinthians 1:10-17; 3:3). A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand (Matthew 12:25, Mark 3:24-25, Luke 11:17). In scripture, God's people are called the Christ's assembly (note: the Greek word ekklesia is translated as 'church' in most bibles, but it actually refers to a group of people, and not to a physical building. Therefore, the literal translation is either 'assembly' or 'congregation'). For example, "the assembly of God" (Acts 20:28, 1 Corinthians 1:2; 10:32; 11:22; 15:9, 2 Corinthians 1:1, Galatians 1:13, 1 Timothy 3:5), or "the assembles of God" (1 Cor.11:16; 1 Thess.2:14; 2 Thess.1:4), or "the assembles of Christ" (Romans 16:16). To call the assembly (church) of God by a different name, is to replace the name of God's assembly (church) with a man-made name. God considers "naming the name of Christ" to be iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19). All denominations create a man-made name to place on their man-made Church. Where is their authority for doing this?

1 Corinthians 1:10-13, "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you ; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you . Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"
​

The above verse clearly condemns denominations. The reason for denominations is because those in the assembly (church) did not "speak the same thing", and that caused "divisions among them", and were no longer "joined together." Therefore, they formed different ‘Churches’ because of all the ‘contentions among them’. Just like how, in the above verses, those in the first century divided themselves and said they were of the assembly of "Chloe, Paul, Apollos, Cephas, etc.", denominations today divide themselves and say they are of the Church of the "Baptists, Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, Evangelical, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh day Adventists, Mormons, Orthodox, Quakers, Methodist, Pentecostal, Presbyterian, Calvinism, Arminianism, etc." But, as Paul asks above, "Is Christ divided?" If not, then how can these divided Churches be of Christ?

Another example of an attempt to ‘divide’ God into separate ‘Churches’ is at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-13, Mark 9:2-13, Luke 9:28-36). After Peter saw Moses, Elijah, and Jesus, he wanted to build a tabernacle (Church) for each one of them. But the Father himself descended in a cloud and said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him." In other words, we are to submit to Jesus only, and preach what he says. This attitude is reflected in the last recorded words of the mother of Jesus, Mary, when she said, "Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it" (John 2:5). We are not to build temples after other men, or upon other men’s teachings, but we are to do what Jesus told us to do.

Psalms 133:1, "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!"

1 John 3:14, "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death."


​

It is not possible to "dwell together in unity," or to "love the brethren" when denominations are too busy fighting with each other and disagreeing with each other.

Amos 3:3, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
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<center>Other References

</center>

Denominationalism: "The system and ideology founded on the division of the religious population into numerous ecclesiastical bodies, each stressing particular values or traditions and each competing with the other in the same community under substantial conditions of freedom. Thus denominationalism has usually been associated with religious pluralism, voluntaryism, mutual respect and recognition, and neutrality on the part of the state." Westminster Dictionary of Church History (1971), pages 262-263.
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As you can see, the very definition of ‘denominationalism’ goes against the very heart of scripture. If you take the five words in bold above, for example, and compare these words with what scripture says about them, it is all negative: Division (1 Corinthians 1:10-17; 3:3). Traditions (Matthew 15:3,6, Mark 7:8,9,13. Colossians 2:8). Competing (2 Corinthians 10:12). Religious pluralism (Galatians 1:8,9). Respect (James 2:9, Leviticus 19:15, Deuteronomy 10:17, 2 Chronicles 19:7).

"The Bible in no way envisages the organization of the church into denominations. It instead assumes the opposite, that all Christians, except those being disciplined, will be in full fellowship with all others. Any tendencies to the contrary were roundly denounced (1 Cor.1:10-13). Paul could write a letter to the Christians meeting in various places in Rome or Galatian with every assurance that all would receive its message. Today, for any city or country, he would have to place the letter as an advertisement in the secular media and hope." Elwell’s Evangelistic Dictionary of Theology, (1984), page 310.

"Articles, Creeds, and Confessions of Faith alike fail to give us this full knowledge of God which is so essential to our faith and walk. They are only man’s impressions, inferences, and conclusions drawn from Scripture; and have themselves to be judged by Scripture. Whatever of truth there may be in them, or however useful, they can never take the place of the Word of God. Only in the "person" of the Living Word, and in the pages of the written Word, can we get to know God." E.W. Bullinger, The Knowledge of God, (1920), page 3.

"We do not use any non-scriptural words or expressions. These are the things which divide the members of the One Body, instead of uniting them. These introduce the seeds of strife and contention. These have been the causes of controversies and martyrdom’s". E.W.Bullinger, The Knowledge of God, (1920), page 3.


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On the 26th of May, 1786, James Madison, who subsequently became president of the United States, said in a sermon he delivered before the Protestant Episcopal Church in the State of Virginia, "I earnestly recommend to our Christians to reject every system as the fallible production of human contrivance, which shall dictate the articles of faith; and adopt the Gospel alone as their guide. Those Christian societies will ever be found to have formed their union upon principles, the wisest and the best, which makes the scriptures alone, and not human articles, a confession of belief, the sole rule of faith and conduct." W.D. Frazie "Reminiscences and Sermons"(1896. page 63).

James Madison also said, "We have staked the whole future of the American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future...upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God."


<center>Heresy literally means Denominations

</center> In the New Testament, the English word "heresy" is from an untranslated Greek word (word #139). It's used nine times; four times it is left untranslated, but the other five times it is translated. This word is translated as "sect" (i.e., denomination) in Acts 5:17; 15:5; 24:5; 26:5 and 28:22. However, it is left untranslated in Acts 24:14, 1 Corinthians 11:19, Galatians 5:20 and 2 Peter 2:1. Why would it be left untranslated? Well, let's see what some of these verses would say if it was translated.

1 Corinthians 11:18-19, "For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies [sects, denominations] among you..."
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Because it shows that denominations cause divisions! What else does scripture say about sects?

Galatians 5:19-21, "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies (sects, denominations), Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."
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Denominations are defined as a work of the flesh! We are told that they who partake of these things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Why not? Because denominations cause divisions, and Christ is not divided. Therefore, denominations are not of Christ!

2 Peter 2:1, "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies (sects, denominations), even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
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This passage says false prophets and false teachers will bring in denominations, and they will deny the Lord. Denominations do deny the Lord by dividing the Lord.


<center>Conclusion

</center> When you start getting into re-definitions and re-statements of the Truth, you’re no longer in the Truth, you’re an image of the Truth. A sect or denomination is not the real thing, it is not the Truth; it is only an interpretation of the Truth, it is only a perception of the Truth. The works of men (creeds, confessions, or articles of faith) quicken no one and save no souls.

John 6:63, "It is the spirit [*not creeds, confessions, or articles of faith] that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

Hosea 8:6, "…the workman made it [*creeds, confessions, or articles of faith]; therefore it is not God:"

Isaiah 17:7-8, "At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel. And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made [*creeds, confessions, or articles of faith]..."



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When people say they are a "New Testament Church", they separate themselves, because they’re saying they popped up at some point 2,000 years ago, whereas God's "church" is from the beginning (Gen.1:1, Psalms 119:160, Pro.8:23, Isa.40:21; 41:4,26; 46:10; 48:5, Jer.17:12, Mark 10:6, Acts 15:18, Col.1:18, 1 John 2:7; 3:11, 2 John 1:5,6, Rev.21:6; 22:13). The "New Covenant Church," for example, is an imperfect church like all other denominations, because it is made up of imperfect people.

-- Brother Richard

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[will]

Agree with others, this is a very good question.

Another angle to view this question is through this often forgotten/dismissed matter of "maturity."

The term maturity, as it is mentioned in 1 Corinthians 2:6 "We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature (teleiois), but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing" as well as in 1 Corinthians 14:20 "Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults (mature)" seems to indicate that until we are at this stage in our Spiritual life, we are not contributing to the Church in any meaningful way.

For me, this is further proven by so many bickering and fights amongst denominations waged by those whose level of maturity cannot be quantified readily. Rather only by human measures like "he's more educated/articulate" or "she wins that debate..." which has no bearing towards what is described in the Scriptures regarding being "mature" in the Spirit; for instance in Ephesians 4:13 "Until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature (teleion), attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ."

That is why I believe that *all* christians, no matter what denomination he/she started with, once they have reached the maturity level, will no longer concern themselves with earthly distinctions, but their sole preoccupation is to bring as much glory as they can to God through their attitudes, behaviors and actions in this life. These are the people who belong to the one true Church.

 

[EphremHagos]

I have one rebuttal.

The curse of preaching against what the Scriptures testify is one thing. Yet, the Scriptures themselves do not claim self-sufficiency. Do they?

Not at all! By their own admission, the Scriptures yield to God's direct and personal self-revelation and presence. What guided their writing, in the first place, is today more widely available for individual revelation and inspiration according to the terms of the "new covenant" and the "seal" in Christ's death on the cross, a.k.a., "the tree of life".

In his instruction, Jesus Christ does not show any concern about adding to the existing Scriptures, which on the contrary were consummated on his last words: "It is finished".

Free of the Scriptures on which "the new covenant" is based, the Apostles appear to have successfully exploited the greater prospects of the ministry of "the Spirit that gives life" just as in the beginning.

Post-apostolic Christianity changed all the rules at its own risk.