Twistie
Loyal
I saw the title of this thread and thought we were about to hear a confession from the poster LOL
The Unteachable Christian: When Defending Your Position Matters More Than Truth
- Thread starter KingJ
- Start date
The nonsense needs to stop
JunoTheServant
Member
Ok so can you provide scripture that proves to me that Jews need to keep the Sabbath and Gentiles don't??
He summaries all his commandments into two categories. You can't love God and do something he told you not to do.
The Sabbath makes for a very interesting discussion as it was a law whose disobedience provoked a severe response from God. He ordained death by stoning for any Israelite who failed to observe it.
As Christians we need to understand why that is and if we are not going to observe it we need to be 10000% certain of our reasoning, knowing what God's punishment for not observing it was. God does not change His mind (Num 23:19). In other words just because God may no longer require the death penalty for certain sins after Jesus does not mean His view of the sin or His hatred of it has changed.
The Sabbath was a day God commanded the Jews to keep holy in remembrance of Him delivering them from 400 years of slavery in Egypt. It was a special covenant sign between God and Israel, the chosen people through whom Jesus the Messiah would come. For a Jew it is a sign of law A. 'Love God'.
I am not a Jew. My family tree was never rescued from 400 years of slavery. If it was, I would observe it.
If I read scripture that shows Gentiles keeping the Sabbath, will you still defend this position? Do you really care about the truth or will you defend your position??
I am not going to convince you of anything, I will give you one warning though. Make sure you're correct because eternity is a very long time.
JunoTheServant
Member
All of God's commandments are dear to me. I stopped watching porn because GOD said in his commandments "Thou shalt not covet". I have no desire to be partial in God's law. I love them all.
Psalm 119: 97
97 O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
Yes I do and mediate on it. Thank GOD for all his commandments.
Psalm 119: 127
127 Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.
Guilty as charge.
James 2: 8, 10 - 11
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
I am not going to cherry pick God's royal law. Same GOD that said thou shalt covet is the same God that said "remember the Sabbath to keep it holy".
Sure I will answer your questions.
I answered this question already. To repeat myself. Everyone will agree the the law is good and as soon as you mention Sabbath they get defensive and cry out "you don't have to do that no more". So I use it as my Christian checker to see where you live at.
Want to know what's interesting? People who don't keep the Sabbath also violate the other commandments. No wonder James said "whosoever shall offend in one part is guilty of all". This is just based on observation and that's why I keep them all. Otherwise I would do what everyone else is doing.
I keep the Sabbath as Jesus instructed.
Side note the pharisees did not keep the Sabbath. They showed up and preach for show and Jesus told you this. Of course I have to prove this because someone might accuse me of lying.
Matthew 23: 2 - 3
2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
So if the Pharisees say keep the Sabbath then Jesus is telling his disciples to do what they tell you to do. Some Pharisees were like Paul who kept the law but hated the lawgiver which is Jesus ( I know this because Paul said he kept the law). In fact that was their entire issue they hate Jesus. It's the opposite in todays world. Everybody loves Jesus (lawgiver) but they hate his law. You can't have one and leave off the other. This generation is no better than the generation Jesus lived in. So my mind is always blown when people think our generation is better than the pharisees.
Also side note the pharisees accuse the disciples of polluting the Sabbath when they were picking corn. If you read the law it permits them to do that they just can't gather in bags. Pharisees were falsely accusing the disciples and of course they would because they themselves were not doing it and they didn't understand it. Hebrews are always partial in God's law and I can read that in the bible. Jesus was teaching us how to deal with the Sabbath which is why he said he is Lord of the Sabbath.
Still waiting for someone to read to me where Jesus said "he is the Sabbath".
What weight I carry? The Lords commandments are not grievous and neither are they burdensome.
1 John 5: 3
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Also there is no such thing as unconditional love. I ask questions to see if you who are who say you are that's all. Just by getting you to talk when I didn't direct my question to you showed me where you live. It's not for me to judge you. I am a Nobody, a peon and a plebian. I will check people out because Jesus said to check people out so please don't be offended cause I ask questions.
Matthew 24: 5
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
It's like we are saying "oh Jesus you are overreacting no one is going to deceive anyone in your name". Anyone who calls themselves a Christian is literally saying they are a follower of Christ. All of a sudden people let their guard down just because someone declares "I'm a Christian". So because you say you're a Christian I should be your buddy, when you could well be a liar or just someone who got deceived just like Eve. So I ask to clarify. Jesus kept the Sabbath so I always ask people if they keep the Sabbath because if you claim to follow Jesus then why you ain't doing what he did??
I initially ignored these questions because it feels like you are accusing me of something when that's not my intention at all. I check everyone out who claims to be a Christian, including family members. Just because you got Jesus in your mouth and go to church that don't make you a Christian, this applies to me and the entire world.
Twistie
Loyal
And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat or drink, or in respect to a holy day or the new moon or the Sabbath days,
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ
Idk where you are at but hubby n i have both been called into the Lords rest..we have rested from our works..we are done in what i deem the rat race we just live in the Lord day by day doing what we are told..
Took me a good 5/6 yrs to realize that i was called into His rest
This is the day the Lord has made let us rejoice and be glad
Hope ya find what ya looking for..
(・o・)
KingJ
Loyal
I saw the title of this thread and thought we were about to hear a confession from the poster LOL
Mockery is not very Christian....
I am open to confession. What do you feel I teach that is false and misrepresents God?
I know for a fact that you teach a version of non-OSAS that implies God is terribly unjust and paint Him as pure evil with your belief on eternal torture of the wicked.
KingJ
Loyal
Then you should leave the thread. You have a reading disability and ask questions that are 1 IQ.
KingJ
Loyal
Acts 15:19-20 and 28-29 records the decision of the apostles and elders concerning what was required of Gentile believers. Sabbath observance was not included. Colossians 2:16-17 also specifically warns against allowing anyone to judge believers regarding a sabbath day.
You are correct that we cannot love God while deliberately disobeying His commandments. The question is whether the Sabbath was commanded of Gentile Christians under the New Covenant or is something we need to consider, as is the case with tithing. You cannot simply assume that every commandment given to Israel applies identically to Gentile believers.
Do what no more? You mean keep the Sabbath? I initially followed that up some other statements to consider, but I guess I'll have to pose those observations to you as questions instead.
I'm sure many are defensive, about not the Sabbath keeping, but how one reacts to not doing so in full compliance of what that means, to either Jew or Gentile. Putting the emphasis on the compliance thereof, and not the reason that God would want a time for man to set aside from the toils of life, to rest, in Him. That is why Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.
Personally, which by what I am about to say, about myself, and how you react to it will be telling to me a bit more about you. I rest in Him 24/7, and go about His business everyday. Not always perfectly, but in such that I cannot fully comprehend, what it will be to enter His rest, when I commune with Him, worship Him, praise Him, except to know Him more fully. Do, I set aside Saturday/Sunday or as was prescribed by the Jewish faith, from sundown Friday to Saturday or the Lord's Day as some would call if for Sunday? To be truthful, yes and no. Not that it's burdensome as some would see it, but if no different than tithing that Brother KingJ mentioned, and I believe was implying to, if inadvertently, when it is the condition of your heart is that which is really telling in those times and not the performance act itself as an observance that it means to many.
In consideration, it might be of interest if you were to create a thread on the subject of the Sabbath that you mentioned you might do. It would probably explain much more about who you are in Him, then a post here, reply there does. Remember, you're not the only testing folks.
For all that you wrote, you did not answer my question (#2). lol
So, I added it once again above, to save you from having to go look to see what it was.
Note: As far as I know, you are the first that comes to mind, that says anything about Jesus "he is the Sabbath" vs being the Lord of the Sabbath, which I have heard spoken of by others as found in Scripture.
Maybe, if you had answered question #2, I'd see it...remember what was posed was a two parter (quoted above) and the operative words to it being to test them unconditionally. Keep in mind that it not always all about you.
Maybe the problem is the limiting factors or the all-encompassing usage of the word ‘love’ in English. Greek delineates different kinds of love with more specificity. The conditions you’re attributing to humanity when you say ‘there is no such thing as unconditional love’ should never be used to include or exclude God. At least I hope not.
Look again at 1 John 4:11–21. Don’t fixate only on the word ‘brother.’ The passage’s runs deeper then that: ‘We love because he first loved us’ (v. 19). God’s love initiates; it is not a response to our meeting some prior condition of worthiness. If we abide in Him, He abides in us, and His love, which is already shown to sinners and the undeserving, is the source from which any genuine love we show flows. That love reaches even those who do not yet meet every condition. God's love is unconditional, and the type of love we need to have, if a dying world is going to believe in our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Whether they do or they don't, whether they be liars, murderers infinite, do you love me, them?
If you don't then in truth you are missing what the Sabbath is all about.
Not accusing, but like you said, testing.
Try to remember brother, whether a person says this or that, or even does this or that, should never be that which dictates the love you have for them.
With the Love in Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
Dave M
Loyal
you are fool to say such things about God, you have have right to judge your creator at all, I state what the bible says, you try to explain why things do not mean what they say, your are a fool trying to speak as you have any right to judge God your creator.
JunoTheServant
Member
I saw the title of this thread and thought we were about to hear a confession from the poster LOL
Ok so you rest in Christ 24/7 which means based on your understanding keeping the Sabbath day is no longer necessary even though Jesus and all the apostles kept it and they still did so even after he died, was buried and has resurrected. Honestly that sounds wonderful, now can you back that up with scripture or is it just how you feel?Do what no more? You mean keep the Sabbath? I initially followed that up some other statements to consider, but I guess I'll have to pose those observations to you as questions instead.
I'm sure many are defensive, about not the Sabbath keeping, but how one reacts to not doing so in full compliance of what that means, to either Jew or Gentile. Putting the emphasis on the compliance thereof, and not the reason that God would want a time for man to set aside from the toils of life, to rest, in Him. That is why Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.
Personally, which by what I am about to say, about myself, and how you react to it will be telling to me a bit more about you. I rest in Him 24/7, and go about His business everyday. Not always perfectly, but in such that I cannot fully comprehend, what it will be to enter His rest, when I commune with Him, worship Him, praise Him, except to know Him more fully. Do, I set aside Saturday/Sunday or as was prescribed by the Jewish faith, from sundown Friday to Saturday or the Lord's Day as some would call if for Sunday? To be truthful, yes and no. Not that it's burdensome as some would see it, but if no different than tithing that Brother KingJ mentioned, and I believe was implying to, if inadvertently, when it is the condition of your heart is that which is really telling in those times and not the performance act itself as an observance that it means to many.
In consideration, it might be of interest if you were to create a thread on the subject of the Sabbath that you mentioned you might do. It would probably explain much more about who you are in Him, then a post here, reply there does. Remember, you're not the only testing folks.
I did answer the question. Falling some test does not result in damnation. The same people who had Christ crucified later changed their mind. That's the beautiful thing about this whole thing. You can live your entire life wrong and still do a 180 at the last day of your life and get salvation like the thief on the cross.
I already clearly explained I asked questions so I know if I'm dealing with a genuine Christian or someone who claims to be. That determines whether or not I should believe you.
The bible says anyone who says they know Christ and don't keep the commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them. So once I confirm no truth is in you and you can validate your doctrine in the bible I may remember what you said but I will still throw it in the garbage.
I check everyone out. It's either I asked you a question or what you teach or do will tell me where you live at.Maybe, if you had answered question #2, I'd see it...remember what was posed was a two parter (quoted above) and the operative words to it being to test them unconditionally. Keep in mind that it not always all about you.
So God first loved us but yet along the line he stopped loving some of us because someone will end up in the lake of fire. So I will humbly disagree with you here because no one who loves someone unconditionally would burn them up....forever. Unconditionally means without condition, so I shouldn't have to love or believe in Jesus to gain salvation. Yet the bible specifically tells you to believe in him which is a condition.
Context is important mate. Never implied I hated them, the bible says not to have fellowship with workers of darkness. All I am saying I just don't believe nothing that comes out your mouth when it comes to Christ other than that I can treat everyone with love because I am commanded to and I have every intention to obey God.
I concurNot accusing, but like you said, testing.
Try to remember brother, whether a person says this or that, or even does this or that, should never be that which dictates the love you have for them.
JunoTheServant
Member
Interesting how you did not answer my question which was "If I show you Gentiles keeping the Sabbath will you reconsider?".
I have already concluded your mind is made up. Even if your statement is proven incorrect. Which means for you there is absolutely no possibility that you can be wrong. Unfortunately that is a dangerous place to be at. I am humbly enough to change my position because the truth matters to me. I used to go church every Sunday, I even use to believe Christ loved everyone unconditionally just like moderator Christ4ever
So it appears as though you are the unteachable christian. Have a good one mate.
Was it the Sabbath or the Lord's Day that was being kept? You are so focused on the specificity of the day, and apparently less concerned in what it means. You follow the Law, and I'll follow the Spirit of the Law. What did Jesus say concerning the Sabbath, and who it was for? This is why you say it's not burdensome to you, but you didn't address what I said about making it a burden to others that it by the letter may entail. That is just like the Pharisees' mindset brother. To follow it was more important to them, then doing good on the Sabbath and they made sure others followed it and that no reasonable exception was allowed. In fact they would treat something good, as evil if done on the Sabbath, while any other day it would be acceptable. That is legalism, at its worse.
You'll have to show me where you said that very thing! I either missed it or is it possible you just thought you said something to that effect. Recheck please, because I quoted everything you said in my last response to you and it wasn't there. However, I do appreciate you answering it here.
Whether you realize it or not, you are playing both sides of the fence brother. So, a person can do wrong their entire life, and get saved, but already knowing they are liars, you would condemn them again, for not following a law, that is actually given for their benefit, and not to be used for judgment. Which is what you are doing. Sad. Why? Because if you say you've followed the law perfectly since you were saved...that is between you and God. However, scripture does say if you've broken one, you might as well have broken them all. What so far you words have made me contemplate, not about the truth in you, but how much love you have for anyone, much less a sinner, since if they don't follow it on a particular day, they become sinners. Still, I'm not here to judge you on how you apply scripture in your life...except only as a member on Talk Jesus! lol
You can disagree with me in many things, but in this case you are disagreeing with Scripture. I state this because God's Love is unconditional. What you are conflating are the consequences of our actions, against the love God has for all of humanity, be they sinner or saint, because He can't be anything else but who He is regardless of what we do or don't do. Yes, He loved you as a sinner too brother! Now man, has difficulty with this, because they can't relate to loving a sinner, or someone who has done them wrong. Thankfully, that is how God is or does things.
If you have children, you'd know this. Correction, and the consequences thereof, does not mean a lack of love that a parent has for their offspring. If man is that way, how much more is God, who is Love! In fact the consequences thereof is really reflective of how much He does love us. So, I hope you would reconsider your position in this, because Scripture that I gave you to read, is clear on this. You might get to know Him better if you do. Otherwise, you will continue to use the Law as a cudgel, to beat people with, which is never what it was meant for, but sadly is how man has been using it since it was given to us. Well, not all of us anyway!
Gosh, I guess I was mistaken. So, I ask: Do, you love me whether I am saint or sinner? If you only love me because you are commanded to, then you are only at the 1st floor of getting to understand what love means, to your knowing God.
Not accusing, but like you said, testing.
Try to remember brother, whether a person says this or that, or even does this or that, should never be that which dictates the love you have for them.
Glad to see you say so here in the above. Now go even deeper with that love that is God in you.
With the Love in Christ Jesus.
YBIC/Moderator
Nick
\o/
KingJ
Loyal
Of course not. Paul literally says we don't need to be mindful of it.
What part of Col 2:16-17 is confusing for you?
Col 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Unteachable
.That is ironic. I explained to you why God wanted Israelites respecting the Sabbath. It was to pay respect to God for Him helping them escape 400 years of slavery.
Deut 5:15 15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
With every law we need to ask 'why' did God create it. And as a Christian, we will be able to grasp the 'why'. Paul is clear on that.
- 1 Timothy 1:5: “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”
- Romans 7:12: “Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.”
- Romans 15:4: “For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.”
- 1 Corinthians 10:11: Paul explains that the events recorded in Scripture happened as examples and were written for our instruction.
- Colossians 2:16–17: Paul explains that certain religious observances were shadows of things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.
- Romans 12:2: We are transformed by the renewing of our minds so that we may discern God's will.