The world and Nominal christians Have Absolutely No Idea what the Term means "Born from Above", Born of GOD.

[Sue D.]

@Elihoenai -- Yes, that's what I'm referring to -- when a woman gives birth -- there is a baby inside of her in a bag of water. That is the water being referred to in that passage.

You were born from a bag of water -- Adam and Eve are the only people who weren't.

 

[Waggles]

That is the water being referred to in that passage.

wrong wrong wrong
that doctrine is a complete denial of all references to the need for water baptism by full immersion throughout the NT scriptures.

Romans 6 is an entire chapter dedicated to the doctrine, value and purpose of full immersion water baptism
Romans 6:3 Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
6:4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death: that just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, thus we also might walk in newness of life.

Romans 6 is not explaining baptism of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8) as when we receive the indwelling Holy Spirit we are not baptized into Jesus' death nor buried with him.
Rather baptism of the Holy Spirit is about receiving knowledge and power from above.

Colossians 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through the faith of the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Baptism by full immersion = partaking spiritually in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ Jesus.

 

[Waggles]

THE GOSPEL OF SALVATION ONCE DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS
Acts 2:38 And Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized each of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
2:39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.

1Peter 3:20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in Noah’s days, while the ark was a preparing, into which few, that is, eight souls, were brought safely through water:
3:21 which also in the antitype doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through Jesus Christ’s resurrection;

 

[Waggles]

Matthew 3:13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan unto John to be baptized of him.
3:14 But he would fain hinder him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and THOU comest unto me?
3:15 But Jesus answered and said to him, Suffer me now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffereth him.
3:16 And Jesus, when baptized, went up straightway from the water: and lo, the heavens were opened, and he saw God’s Spirit descending as if a dove coming upon him;
3:17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens saying, This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased.

God himself underwent water baptism by full immersion to declare how important and necessary this is for his disciples in order to fulfill all righteousness.
And here we have the future Christian gospel of salvation laid out for us ➙ Acts 2:38

 

[Sue D.]

@Waggles

That Is one passage

How about 1 Corinthians 15:1-3

Romans 10:9-10

It was Jesus Christ (God incarnate) who asked John the Baptist to baptize Him.

Jesus Christ definitely did Not need to be baptized. He was righteous. It Was done to begin His ministry.

@Elihoenai -- Yes, that's what I'm referring to -- when a woman gives birth -- there is a baby inside of her in a bag of water. That is the water being referred to in that passage.

You were born from a bag of water -- Adam and Eve are the only people who weren't.

Why are you having such a 'reaction' to my comment

@Elihoenai -- Yes, that's what I'm referring to -- when a woman gives birth -- there is a baby inside of her in a bag of water. That is the water being referred to in that passage.

You were born from a bag of water -- Adam and Eve are the only people who weren't.

You picked that one phrase out of my entire post -- a very short post. And it was referring back to the previous post. The being born-Again situation. No need to jump all over me.

 

[Waggles]

Jesus Christ definitely did Not need to be baptized. He was righteous.

And yet he was baptized in water to fulfill all righteousness.
Likewise as his disciples we need to do the same and follow the example set before us by our rabbi, our teacher, our Lord.

Acts 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper regions came to Ephesus, and found certain disciples:
19:2 and he said unto them, Whether ye received the Holy Spirit when ye believed? And they said unto him, Nay, we did not so much as hear whether there is a Holy Spirit.
19:3 And he said, Into what then were ye baptized? And they said, Into the baptism of John.
19:4 And Paul said, John baptized a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe unto him that should come after him, that is, unto Jesus.
19:5 And when they heard this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
19:6 And when Paul had laid hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them; and they spoke with tongues, and prophesied.
19:7 And they were in all about twelve men.

 

[Sue D.]

Waggles -- Jesus Christ IS righteousness. He's the One who died on the cross for our sins. He was buried and rose again bodily on the 3rd day.

Please look at the passages I included. 1 Corinthians 15 and Romans 10:9-10.

The thief on the cross -- He acknowledged His need and Christ as His answer -- never had a chance to be baptized and never spoke in tongues -- yet -- Jesus Christ assured Him that That very day -- he'd be with Him in Paradise and NOT in the Hades part. That is a death-bed conversion if ever there was one.

 

[Waggles]

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, Amen, Amen, I say unto thee, Except one be born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born being an old man? can he enter a second time into the womb of his mother, and be born?
3:5 Jesus answered, Amen, Amen, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water and Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
3:6 What is born of the flesh is flesh; and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.
3:7 Marvel not that I said to thee, Ye must be born from above.
3:8 The Spirit breatheth where he willeth, and thou hearest his voice, but knowest not whence he cometh, and whither he goeth: so is every one born of the Spirit.

this is a clear and direct commandment to the NT imperative for water baptism - for Jesus is explaining spiritual necessities to Nicodemus.
that a person needs to have been born and be alive to enter the kingdom of God - to believe the gospel - goes without saying.

 

[Waggles]

the spiritual significance of water baptism by full immersion
Romans 6:8 But if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him;
6:9 knowing that Christ raised from the dead dieth no more; death no more lords it over him.
6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once for all: but in that he liveth, he liveth to God.
6:11 Thus ye also reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

water baptism is referred to throughout the NT scriptures in the gospels, Acts and the epistles
disciples of the church of God were all water baptised and also baptised in the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of praying in tongues.

 

[Waggles]

he'd be with Him in Paradise and NOT in the Hades part. That is a death-bed conversion if ever there was one.

I, and a multitude of others, would strongly disagree with your conclusion on this.
Jesus did not promise Heaven to the thief on the cross nor take him to Heaven with him on that day - he was offered grace and promised a future salvation in Eden to come.
And anyway the thief on the cross is irrelevant to being born form above as the way of salvation for Christian disciples.

 

[Sue D.]

@Waggles -- there Is evidence in New Testament of baptizm by immersion -- yes, agreeing.

Tongues is one of many spiritual gifts given to a person upon their salvation. But it's not the only one by any means.

Part of the process of salvation is the Holy Spirit's immediate indwelling of the person -- their being is 'immersed' by the Holy Spirit. And then baptized by immersion to show to others what had already taken place in their heart. They are publically identifying with Jesus Christ as being His followers. But it's not part Of the salvation process.

 

[Waggles]

Romans 10:9 because if thou shalt confess the word with thy mouth that Jesus is Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Rom 10:10 for with the heart one believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth one confesseth unto salvation.

1: one verse does not a gospel make - one verse taken out of context does not disqualify all the other verses that teach water baptism
2: good disciples obedient to the Word confess their faith and belief in the waters of baptism
3: this is Romans chapter 10 which is after Romans chapter 6 (water baptism) and Romans chapter 8 (Holy Spirit) and the confession in chapter 10 is about these previous doctrines taught by Paul.

Acts 16:27 And the jailor being roused out of sleep and seeing the prison doors open, drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped.
16:28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
16:29 And he called for lights and sprang in, and, trembling for fear, fell down before Paul and Silas,
16:30 and brought them out and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and THOU shalt be saved and thy household.
16:32 And they spake the word of God to him, with all those in his house.
16:33 And he took them in that hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, immediately.
16:34 And he brought them up into the house, and set a table before them, and rejoiced greatly with all his house, having believed in God.

 

[Waggles]

But it's not part Of the salvation process.

I, and scripture, do strongly disagree with your interpretation.
But as we are all friends here on TalkJesus we can leave it at each to their own.
As for me I believe in the Pentecostal church as the body of Christ.
Works for me.

 

[Sue D.]

I, and a multitude of others, would strongly disagree with your conclusion on this.
Jesus did not promise Heaven to the thief on the cross nor take him to Heaven with him on that day - he was offered grace and promised a future salvation in Eden to come.
And anyway the thief on the cross is irrelevant to being born form above as the way of salvation for Christian disciples.

I know that lots of people don't agree with me on that.

There are two different Paradises being referred to in Scripture.

Paradise IS / WAS part of Abraham's bosom. Remember the episode with Lazarus and the rich man. They both died and one was in Hades part and one was in Paradise part.

Jesus Christ did not ascend back up To heaven until 40 days after His bodily resurrection. And took no one with Him.

Part of what happened after Jesus Christ 'died' was that He went to hell for us -- in our place. He gave those in the Hades part a chance to repent -- and He Also took all the people back up with Him who'd been waiting For His death, burial and bodily resurrection to take place and they had been in the Paradise part. Remember there's a passage that talks about graves being opened up and those people walking around again.

Salvation is made possible so that the born again believers can be in the New Jerusalem for all eternity. Revelation 20 or so says that God will bring the New Jerusalem down with Him in the end. That will be our eternity.

And, well, maybe it Could be thought of as a new garden of Eden. If Adam and Eve hadn't taken from the forbidden fruit -- it Could have been theirs and our perfect home for ever. But in Revelation -- it's referred to as the New Jerusalem.

Actually the thief on the cross is Very relavant.

 

[Waggles]

Sorry it being 8.48 AM local time and got to have a shower and shave before I present myself in public this very wintery Sunday morning.
Catch you all later.

 

[Sue D.]

Romans 10:9 because if thou shalt confess the word with thy mouth that Jesus is Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved:
Rom 10:10 for with the heart one believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth one confesseth unto salvation.

1: one verse does not a gospel make - one verse taken out of context does not disqualify all the other verses that teach water baptism
2: good disciples obedient to the Word confess their faith and belief in the waters of baptism
3: this is Romans chapter 10 which is after Romans chapter 6 (water baptism) and Romans chapter 8 (Holy Spirit) and the confession in chapter 10 is about these previous doctrines taught by Paul.

Acts 16:27 And the jailor being roused out of sleep and seeing the prison doors open, drew his sword and was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped.
16:28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
16:29 And he called for lights and sprang in, and, trembling for fear, fell down before Paul and Silas,
16:30 and brought them out and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus, and THOU shalt be saved and thy household.
16:32 And they spake the word of God to him, with all those in his house.
16:33 And he took them in that hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, immediately.
16:34 And he brought them up into the house, and set a table before them, and rejoiced greatly with all his house, having believed in God.

That is Not one verse lifted out of context.

And I need to be going pretty soon.

 

[Sue D.]

Sorry it is 8.48 AM local time and got to have a shower and shave before I present myself in public this very wintery Sunday morning.
Catch you all later.

Okay -- because it's 6:20 pm here in Texas on a Saturday evening. And I need to get ready For Sunday morning.

Obviously you're a man since you're needing to shave.

Will continue at some point.

 

[PloughBoy]

The term "born again" can mean most anything. For this world gives all kinds of examples of them being "born again".

But the real Term; "Born from Above", "Born of GOD" always refers to an "Heavenly Birth" and not a new way of thinking, It means that "you have become a "New Creature" created in "Christ Jesus" not a earthly birth not a mental birth, and not the same creature, that came from out of your Mother's womb, not the same being that came from between her legs but "Born from Heavenly," It is a GOD thing! Like when GOD created "Adam" from the DUST, and created "EVE" from Adams rib. all of this is Earthy. And in Jesus, HE has done a "NEW Thing" He has created another Creature within a Creature That is "Born of GOD" a Heavenly Birth, Straight out of Heaven. And HE has done this, in His own time.

How did HE do this, Yes, you don't understand, only thing we can understand, is the things of The earth, But you see, This New Creation is "Born Of GOD" and it is "incomprehensible" to The "Finite mind"! For The Finite only understands the Finite, and The "Finite" cannot comprehend "The Incomprehensible". To create a "New Creature" within a Creature is what we call, a "MIRACLE"! That only a GOD can do.

Thank you Jesus. he is the sweetest Thing I know. "This Holy Thing" born of a woman.

For The skeptics:

PS
American Standard Version
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon thee, and the power of the Most High shall overshadow thee: wherefore also "the holy thing" which is begotten shall be called the Son of God.

 

[Waggles]

Obviously you're a man since you're needing to shave.

Can you state such things in a modern world ???
Perhaps I need to shave my legs or underarms ???

but fortunately for TJ I shave my face being male (what pronoun should I use??)

 

[Elihoenai]

@Elihoenai -- Yes, that's what I'm referring to -- when a woman gives birth -- there is a baby inside of her in a bag of water. That is the water being referred to in that passage.

You were born from a bag of water -- Adam and Eve are the only people who weren't.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

@Sue D., You have a Carnal Mind and you are at War with Elohim/God. You are practising Freemasonry.