Chad4Him
Active
Curious where you get this thought from and if you could explain please.
Thoughts on Job
- Thread starter Quantrill
- Start date
Bendito
Loyal
LOL Well, I'll condede that point to you... Or was it pride in His man? Was it boasting for Job? Patting him on the back, as it were.
Bendito
Loyal
As I said....The Book is a book of covenant...a covenant is a legal contract.
When Job stepped out of faith, into fear, he stepped into Satan's realm.
Another way I could say it would be, that Job stepped out of the LIGHT into the darkness, and the monsters live in the darkness.....It's in the light that we are protected. It's in the light that we walk with God...We walk in faith in our Father or we wander off into the dark following the enemy.
Chad4Him
Active
Thanks Bendito - but I am just wondering if this is your surmisings (that's fine) or if there is something in the scripture that brings you to this conclusion (Job's fear.)
Quantrill
Active
Well, you say that, but (Job 1:8) says differently. God doesn't just know what satan is doing, satan is having to report in to God. (Job 1:6-8) It is God who directs attention to Job.
satan would like nothing better than to get to all of God's people and kill them all. God restricts him, but God also lets him get to them at times for His purpose. And with Job, God not only lets satan get to Job but he directed satan's attention to Job.
satan is but a tool in the hand of God just like the Assyrian in (Is. 10:5-7).
Quantrill
Quantrill
Active
Job repented for questioning why these sufferings were coming upon him. He had nothing to repent of which caused the sufferings. (Heb. 1:8) backs that it was God's decision.
Quantrill
Wired 4 Fishen
Loyal
Does it now?
Show me where scripture backs this
Wired 4 Fishen
Loyal
This is far from truth.
Bendito
Loyal
OK...Mr Quantrill said. "
Yes, God killed three thousand and God killed a whole lot more in the flood. And God will kill a whole lot more during the Tribulation period as shown in the book of (Revelation.)
I didn't say God did not save Noah and his family. I said God killed everyone else in the world with the flood. You can deny it all day long, yet I have given you Scripture. So, what is your problem?
Now, back to my question in post [HASH=1558]#(46[/HASH]). Why would satan give Paul a thorn in the flesh so he would not be exalted above measure. (2 Cor. 12:7)
Quantrill
OK....As I've already said Sir...Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives, eight people in all, were the only humans left on the planet The others were not human....Read the Book. All of the people of the Earth had been corrupted and were no longer human. No salvation for non humans and time for house cleaning. I know the scripture but what you are telling me does not go along with that scripture.
Now Paul....If you look at it the phrase "Lest I be exalted..." translates out to "And lest the greatness of the revelations should exalt me," "And lest the greatness of the revelations should exalt me above measure ", "
The extraordinary level of the revelations I’ve received is no reason for anyone to exalt me.".
Exalted does not mean conceit. It means lifted up....When one is exalted, either he lifts himself up or somebody lifts him up....As in we exalt Jesus...That does not mean Jesus is conceited. Then look at the rest of the verses here. "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations" Have you ever had a revelation from God? It does not make you conceited, or shouldn't. It won't if you realize it was not you, but God that revealed it to you. Paul had a multitude of revelations and sharing the knowledge would often lead to people lifting him up, exalting him....and in turn learning more about the Word. So Satan tried to stop it.
Why would you think God would send a demon to torment Paul? God is life. Jesus came so that we may have life, life in its fullest measure.
Demons and torment are not life's fullest measure. That's why I said Satan sent the demon on Paul.
Yes, God killed three thousand and God killed a whole lot more in the flood. And God will kill a whole lot more during the Tribulation period as shown in the book of (Revelation.)
I didn't say God did not save Noah and his family. I said God killed everyone else in the world with the flood. You can deny it all day long, yet I have given you Scripture. So, what is your problem?
Now, back to my question in post [HASH=1558]#(46[/HASH]). Why would satan give Paul a thorn in the flesh so he would not be exalted above measure. (2 Cor. 12:7)
Quantrill
OK....As I've already said Sir...Noah, his wife, his three sons and their wives, eight people in all, were the only humans left on the planet The others were not human....Read the Book. All of the people of the Earth had been corrupted and were no longer human. No salvation for non humans and time for house cleaning. I know the scripture but what you are telling me does not go along with that scripture.
Now Paul....If you look at it the phrase "Lest I be exalted..." translates out to "And lest the greatness of the revelations should exalt me," "And lest the greatness of the revelations should exalt me above measure ", "
The extraordinary level of the revelations I’ve received is no reason for anyone to exalt me.".
Exalted does not mean conceit. It means lifted up....When one is exalted, either he lifts himself up or somebody lifts him up....As in we exalt Jesus...That does not mean Jesus is conceited. Then look at the rest of the verses here. "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations" Have you ever had a revelation from God? It does not make you conceited, or shouldn't. It won't if you realize it was not you, but God that revealed it to you. Paul had a multitude of revelations and sharing the knowledge would often lead to people lifting him up, exalting him....and in turn learning more about the Word. So Satan tried to stop it.
Why would you think God would send a demon to torment Paul? God is life. Jesus came so that we may have life, life in its fullest measure.
Demons and torment are not life's fullest measure. That's why I said Satan sent the demon on Paul.
Bendito
Loyal
Yup. Really far.
Wired 4 Fishen
Loyal
Please over look any typos.
Using my back up emergency phone that is not designed to write post. Ugg
Job........
First I write a small out line of what is in question and then quote scripture that show what i am saying. Please follow through this and see for your self.
The first thing we learn about Job is the Blessing of God was working in his life. We have all agreed on this point. We know Job was wealthy in finances and live stock and spiritually. Job lived by faith in the blessing of God and then his children grew up.
Once his children grew up he began to fret and worry every time his children got together and had a party. He worried in fear that his children were sinning against God.
Job developed such a terror about this that every time one of them had a party or get together, well Job went and freaked out in worry, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: FOR JOB SAID, it may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. (job1:5)
We see in Job1:5 that he was obsessed with the fact his children might have cursed God and sinned against God.
We see in .....that the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me......I was not in safety.....neither had I rest......neither was I quiet.....yet trouble came.....
I broke these two scriptures down this way so as to make it easier to see.
1. the thing which I greatly feared has come upon me.....
Job stepped out of walking by Faith in God and stepped into walking into fear of his children sinning against God and cursing God.
2. I was not in safety.........
This is saying that Job was not walking in Faith of God and under the blessing of God...Once you step out into fear..you have left out from under the blessing....his fear over his children sinning against God was bigger in his thinking then his remembering of Gods protection of the blessing.
3. Neither had I rest.........
Why did Job say he had no rest ? Easy he was to busy worrying about his children.....he was up all night worrying.....he had lost his peace in God, once he stepped out into fear and doubt.
4. Neither was I quiet......Job ran his mouth...speaking words of fear and doubt and worry.....remember he has stepped out of the safety place of God and His blessing. See every one of us falls right into this every time we allow our words to speak anything other then the word of God or another words faith filled words.
5. yet trouble came..... job thought he was doing right by his family by worrying and thought he was being responsible and this happens to many believers.
Ok Next is the conversation between God and satin.....
First a few points....all the devil knew was this man had the blessing over him and the devil described it as a hedge of protection. The devil wanted Job all along to curse God and that is why he even had an interest in Job.
Now lets look at two verses here.
Doth Job fear God for nought? Has not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all he hath on every side? Thou has blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. BUT put forth thine hand now and touch all that he hath and he will CURSE you to thy face.
And the Lord said unto satin, Behold all that he hath is in thy power: only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So satin went froth from the presence of the Lord.
We can see two things .
1..the devil had wanted Job to curse God from the beginning.
........This is why Job was speaking in all that fear about his children sinning and cursing God...That is how our enemy works,,,,he has to get us to speak out against what the word of God says... Then he has the right to enter into the situation.....even jobs wife eventually sided with satin and told Job to just give up and cures God.( job2:9 ) ...Man that is easy to see where she got that idea from..........However in all Job did say, He never cursed God. THATS WHY WE READ.....In ALL this did not Job sin with his lips.
2....The second thing we learn here in these two verses is this.....
God did not tell the devil, "Here I put Job into your hands and you do what ever you want".
The devil was poorly mistaken to even suggest such a thing because God was in no way going to stretch out His hand against Job. God NEVER agreed with satin to what satin suggested.
HOWEVER GOD DID SAY THIS......"BEHOLD he is already in your hand"
We don't use the word Behold much at all these days. I mean when was the last time you heard some one say BEHOLD is not this car beautiful ?
Now if you look up this word "Behold" in any of the translations such as Hebrew or Greek or English or Spanish or any other translation...YOU WILL LEARN that it ALWAYS MEANS " Look and see. Wake up and pay attention"
See God was telling satan that JOB had already opened the door to him or had given satan the right to do as he wanted to do. God was simply telling the devil the truth....Job had already tore down the protective hedge around him ( the blessing of God) when he stepped out into fear and worry and doubt. HOWEVER God did sent a boundary.....spare his life or another words satin could do whatever....EXCEPT....KILL JOB...
The once satan finally grasped that Job had stepped out of or lost the blessing this protective hedge...well you know the story....satin went after job with vengeance.
Then Job ran his mouth complaining about everything but still NEVER CURSED GOD......Funny how this story ends.....God sends a preacher to preach some sense back into job.......AND once Job repented of his errors...God restored the blessing back and Job increased in all.
I hope this helps some of you understand what many have been trying to show you...
Have thee most blessed and wonderful day
Wired
Using my back up emergency phone that is not designed to write post. Ugg
Job........
First I write a small out line of what is in question and then quote scripture that show what i am saying. Please follow through this and see for your self.
The first thing we learn about Job is the Blessing of God was working in his life. We have all agreed on this point. We know Job was wealthy in finances and live stock and spiritually. Job lived by faith in the blessing of God and then his children grew up.
Once his children grew up he began to fret and worry every time his children got together and had a party. He worried in fear that his children were sinning against God.
Job developed such a terror about this that every time one of them had a party or get together, well Job went and freaked out in worry, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: FOR JOB SAID, it may be that my sons have sinned and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. (job1:5)
We see in Job1:5 that he was obsessed with the fact his children might have cursed God and sinned against God.
We see in .....that the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me......I was not in safety.....neither had I rest......neither was I quiet.....yet trouble came.....
I broke these two scriptures down this way so as to make it easier to see.
1. the thing which I greatly feared has come upon me.....
Job stepped out of walking by Faith in God and stepped into walking into fear of his children sinning against God and cursing God.
2. I was not in safety.........
This is saying that Job was not walking in Faith of God and under the blessing of God...Once you step out into fear..you have left out from under the blessing....his fear over his children sinning against God was bigger in his thinking then his remembering of Gods protection of the blessing.
3. Neither had I rest.........
Why did Job say he had no rest ? Easy he was to busy worrying about his children.....he was up all night worrying.....he had lost his peace in God, once he stepped out into fear and doubt.
4. Neither was I quiet......Job ran his mouth...speaking words of fear and doubt and worry.....remember he has stepped out of the safety place of God and His blessing. See every one of us falls right into this every time we allow our words to speak anything other then the word of God or another words faith filled words.
5. yet trouble came..... job thought he was doing right by his family by worrying and thought he was being responsible and this happens to many believers.
Ok Next is the conversation between God and satin.....
First a few points....all the devil knew was this man had the blessing over him and the devil described it as a hedge of protection. The devil wanted Job all along to curse God and that is why he even had an interest in Job.
Now lets look at two verses here.
Doth Job fear God for nought? Has not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all he hath on every side? Thou has blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. BUT put forth thine hand now and touch all that he hath and he will CURSE you to thy face.
And the Lord said unto satin, Behold all that he hath is in thy power: only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So satin went froth from the presence of the Lord.
We can see two things .
1..the devil had wanted Job to curse God from the beginning.
........This is why Job was speaking in all that fear about his children sinning and cursing God...That is how our enemy works,,,,he has to get us to speak out against what the word of God says... Then he has the right to enter into the situation.....even jobs wife eventually sided with satin and told Job to just give up and cures God.( job2:9 ) ...Man that is easy to see where she got that idea from..........However in all Job did say, He never cursed God. THATS WHY WE READ.....In ALL this did not Job sin with his lips.
2....The second thing we learn here in these two verses is this.....
God did not tell the devil, "Here I put Job into your hands and you do what ever you want".
The devil was poorly mistaken to even suggest such a thing because God was in no way going to stretch out His hand against Job. God NEVER agreed with satin to what satin suggested.
HOWEVER GOD DID SAY THIS......"BEHOLD he is already in your hand"
We don't use the word Behold much at all these days. I mean when was the last time you heard some one say BEHOLD is not this car beautiful ?
Now if you look up this word "Behold" in any of the translations such as Hebrew or Greek or English or Spanish or any other translation...YOU WILL LEARN that it ALWAYS MEANS " Look and see. Wake up and pay attention"
See God was telling satan that JOB had already opened the door to him or had given satan the right to do as he wanted to do. God was simply telling the devil the truth....Job had already tore down the protective hedge around him ( the blessing of God) when he stepped out into fear and worry and doubt. HOWEVER God did sent a boundary.....spare his life or another words satin could do whatever....EXCEPT....KILL JOB...
The once satan finally grasped that Job had stepped out of or lost the blessing this protective hedge...well you know the story....satin went after job with vengeance.
Then Job ran his mouth complaining about everything but still NEVER CURSED GOD......Funny how this story ends.....God sends a preacher to preach some sense back into job.......AND once Job repented of his errors...God restored the blessing back and Job increased in all.
I hope this helps some of you understand what many have been trying to show you...
Have thee most blessed and wonderful day
Wired
Bendito
Loyal
I'm not quite sure what you're asking....so I'll guess....Look at the first chapter of Job. First five verses.
1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters.
3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east.
4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
OK Jobs kids liked to Partay! And Job had the means to allow that. But in partying things can get a little crazy...Party games can go a little overboard....and stupid things can be done or stupid things can be said. Or both.
Well Job loved God and he loved his kids and somebody planted the thought in his mind that perhaps, just maybe one or more of his party animal kids might do or say something stupid and blaspheme God....Who do you think could have planted that thought in Jobs mind? Himself? Certainly but more likely, seeing how he loved God and knew that God loved him, it was Satan... We see where Satan had done it before, just like that, in Genesis 3:1-6. So there is where the temptation would be to fear...Then Job took the thought saying. "It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts." (We usually take a thought given us from the enemy by saying. Matthew 6:31)
Well, no. Going by the first five verses of Job, I do not surmise but I come to the conclusion that this is the way it happened.
Did I answer your question or did I miss it completely? :smile:
Bendito
Loyal
Good stuff! Even with the dredded typos. LOL
Quantrill
Active
My mistake. I meant (Job 1:8).
Quantrill
Active
Quantrill
Active
What are you smokin? What do you base this absurdity that Noah and his family were the only humans on the earth on?
Jesus cannot be exalted above measure, either by Himself or others. He is worthy of all exaltation. And so He is not affected negatively through any self-exhaltation. So that comparison does not apply. satan is just as happy to have a Christian exalt himself above measure as he would a non-believer. For that is the sin of satan. Self-exaltation turns into self worship. Thus the warning in (1 Tim. 3:6) "Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil."
So, no. It is God who is concerned over anyone being exalted above measure. And such revelations and knowledge from God would bring just that. It is not as though fallen humanity has a choice in the matter. Such revelations and knowledge from God would destroy the individual unless God sends a thorn in the flesh to curb it. And so he did.
And concerning your comment that God didn't kill anyone, you can add Nadab and Abihu to that list of three thousand, as well as those in the flood, as well as Ananias and Sapphira. (Lev. 10:1-2) And add another 14,000 plus to that with Korah and his followers. (Num. 16:30-50) Do you need more or is that sufficient to disprove your comment?
Quantrill
Quantrill
Active
Wired 4 Fishen
Concerning your post [HASH=1560]#(31[/HASH]):
You have created in Job sins that are not there. His concern for his children and offering sacrifices to God for them was a man in obedience to God, walking in faith with God. You are wrong that Job repented of any of this as there was no need for repentance. Job repented of questioning God as to why this suffering was come upon him.
You are equally wrong in suggesting it was satans idea to come against Job. Scripture is clear. (Job 1:8) God directed satan's attention to Job. satan understood this as he said in (Job 1:11) to God, "put forth thine hand". Whose hand? God's hand. See also (Job 2:5). "But put forth thine hand" Whose hand? God's hand.
You and others who agree with you are just as Job's three friends who constantly accused him. You should consider (Job 42:7) "And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath."
Quantrill
Concerning your post [HASH=1560]#(31[/HASH]):
You have created in Job sins that are not there. His concern for his children and offering sacrifices to God for them was a man in obedience to God, walking in faith with God. You are wrong that Job repented of any of this as there was no need for repentance. Job repented of questioning God as to why this suffering was come upon him.
You are equally wrong in suggesting it was satans idea to come against Job. Scripture is clear. (Job 1:8) God directed satan's attention to Job. satan understood this as he said in (Job 1:11) to God, "put forth thine hand". Whose hand? God's hand. See also (Job 2:5). "But put forth thine hand" Whose hand? God's hand.
You and others who agree with you are just as Job's three friends who constantly accused him. You should consider (Job 42:7) "And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath."
Quantrill
Dave M
Loyal
very interesting indeed here is a good article
But God selected the best man who ever lived in the time of the Old Testament, possibly the best man who ever lived with the exception of Jesus Christ. God chose this man and showed that he needed to repent. When we get to the end of this book, we find the words of Job himself. “I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes” (Job 42:5–6). This ought to teach every believer today—it should teach everyone who reads this—that no matter how good we think we are, we need to see ourselves as God sees us. All our righteousness is as filthy rags. We need to repent.
Job Study Guide
But God selected the best man who ever lived in the time of the Old Testament, possibly the best man who ever lived with the exception of Jesus Christ. God chose this man and showed that he needed to repent. When we get to the end of this book, we find the words of Job himself. “I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee. Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes” (Job 42:5–6). This ought to teach every believer today—it should teach everyone who reads this—that no matter how good we think we are, we need to see ourselves as God sees us. All our righteousness is as filthy rags. We need to repent.
Job Study Guide