Thoughts on Job

[Bendito]

Try (Job 1:8) and (Job 42:7) and (Job 42:11).

Quantrill

Can I assume you have a point here?

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I'm not turning anything around. You and others are. I am trying to straighten it out.

Quantrill

No that's not quite right. You take scripture throughout the entire book and tie them to events as if they fit.

 

[Quantrill]

You are the one who is translating "Perfect" as sinless. I thought we dealt with that yesterday. I don't have a leg to stand on? How about the Word? I stand on that! You're the one that is spouting Chruchianity doctrines and getting it wrong. But I'll tell you....rather than ripping your hair out trying to convince me of fictional scenarios...We could agree to disagree. I can see I'll never convince you of the Word.

No, I was clear that Job was not sinless. That isn't the point. What Word? You haven't shown anything yet except your opinion.

I'm not ripping my hair out. And neither am I given you fictional scenarios. I have been giving you Scripture which you ignore because it doesn't agree with you.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Can I assume you have a point here?

Sure. It is Scripture that is against what you have been saying. What you have been ignoring.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

No that's not quite right. You take scripture throughout the entire book and tie them to events as if they fit.

Well, yes, it is perfectly right. Yes I use Scripture to support what I say. Is that supposed to be a revelation to anyone?

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

No, I was clear that Job was not sinless. That isn't the point. What Word? You haven't shown anything yet except your opinion.

I'm not ripping my hair out. And neither am I given you fictional scenarios. I have been giving you Scripture which you ignore because it doesn't agree with you.

Quantrill

Mishandled scriptures, mixed with churchianity doctrine....The Word, the Book, the Bible I show you what the Word says and you say that it doesn't say that....You seem to have a completely different translation to the word "Sin" than what the Word says too

 

[Bendito]

Yes you did. In post # (98). It is sin to walk in fear is what you said.

Indeed, the Book only tells us that Job was perfect, and upright, and one who feared God. You are the one who doesn't want to believe it. I am not fighting facts. You have been fighting Scripture and are now seeing you haven't a leg to stand on.

Quantrill

Let me clarify for you Sir....A sinner is one who sins habitually....Not a person who sins once in a while. Nobody said Job was a sinner.

 

[Quantrill]

Mishandled scriptures, mixed with churchianity doctrine....The Word, the Book, the Bible I show you what the Word says and you say that it doesn't say that....You seem to have a completely different translation to the word "Sin" than what the Word says too

A simple claim any one can make at any time. You resort to this as you haven't a leg to stand on. You totally misunderstand the book of Job.

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

A simple claim any one can make at any time. You resort to this as you haven't a leg to stand on. You totally misunderstand the book of Job.

Quantrill

Did you say you preach and teach?! Maybe I misunderstand the Book of Job....No. I understand what I read because rather than studying it intellectually, I rely on the Holy Spirit to teach me... Who teaches you?

 

[Quantrill]

Let me clarify for you Sir....A sinner is one who sins habitually....Not a person who sins once in a while. Nobody said Job was a sinner.

Whether you want to call Job a sinner or not is immaterial to me. I have always said Job was a sinner. That is not the point. He was perfect, and upright before God. He was not guilty of any sin of 'fear' as you want to claim he was. Though now you want to say he wasn't a sinner.

Job's suffering was not due to any sin of his. It was due to God's will and the spiritual warfare that was taking place. As Scripture has pointed out, and as I have pointed out to you.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Did you say you preach and teach?! Maybe I misunderstand the Book of Job....No. I understand what I read because rather than studying it intellectually, I rely on the Holy Spirit to teach me... Who teaches you?

No, you do misunderstand the book of Job. You can rely on the Holy Spirit to teach you. You just need to pay more attention.

Quantrill

 

[Bendito]

Whether you want to call Job a sinner or not is immaterial to me. I have always said Job was a sinner. That is not the point. He was perfect, and upright before God. He was not guilty of any sin of 'fear' as you want to claim he was. Though now you want to say he wasn't a sinner.

Job's suffering was not due to any sin of his. It was due to God's will and the spiritual warfare that was taking place. As Scripture has pointed out, and as I have pointed out to you.

Quantrill

Now you blame God for the bad things that happen to a person...That is, to me, tantamount to blasphemy! You do not blame God for the ugly things Satan does....do you credit Satan for the good things God does for a person?

I never said Job was a sinner....I said he sinned....

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Did you say you preach and teach?! Maybe I misunderstand the Book of Job....No. I understand what I read because rather than studying it intellectually, I rely on the Holy Spirit to teach me... Who teaches you?

You know Brother have you noticed things like job putting his hand over his mouth so he would not sin with his mouth anymore and the fact God sent a man to straighten job out and Job repented and that's when God said if job forgives and prays for his friends.

How about the fact satan had been trying to destroy job for awhile other wise satan would not know about all the protection in his life.

So much more that gets left out such as not everything people use as scripture from the book of job is not even scripture

 

[Bendito]

No, you do misunderstand the book of Job. You can rely on the Holy Spirit to teach you. You just need to pay more attention.

Quantrill

Well the confusion shows!! You are confused about who is confused...You misunderstand who is misunderstanding.

 

[Dovegiven]

Ahem.....Let me point out that Job was already a man fearing God, blessed mightily, even under special protection from God. The "hedge" around everything Job was simply an "off limits" to Satan, who ruled men on earth after Adam relinquished it. Satan was biting at the bit to get through to that one man on earth, claiming he would abandon God, accuse God, if his material world was lost. Also, the book of Job is said by most scholars to be the oldest, even predating Moses and the Pentateuch. Job lived in Genesis times, before the Law arrived. Job was a man a lot like Abram, with some faults, but pleasing to God, That relationship justified the protection of God, making him the richest in the East.

When Job rose up to witness what an unleashed Devil could do, he refused to blame God. It wasn't done by the hand of God, but by permission of God to answer Satan's challenge. Job was not living under a strong covenant like Abraham inherited, probably having blessing of only the Noahic covenant.

The upright man Job came through the whole of it quite impressively, but the sons he sanctified and sacrified for were lost, and his wife had some "splainin' to do before God. Sure, Job got off into some stinkin' thinkin', but where's the facts to convict him of sin? What Job did for those kids is similar to the responsibility of parents today, who ought to dedicate their children to God regardless of outcome as soon as possible. If anyone sinned, it was Job's family, and of course, Satan.

 

[Bendito]

Ahem.....Let me point out that Job was already a man fearing God, blessed mightily, even under special protection from God. The "hedge" around everything Job was simply an "off limits" to Satan, who ruled men on earth after Adam relinquished it. Satan was biting at the bit to get through to that one man on earth, claiming he would abandon God, accuse God, if his material world was lost. Also, the book of Job is said by most scholars to be the oldest, even predating Moses and the Pentateuch. Job lived in Genesis times, before the Law arrived. Job was a man a lot like Abram, with some faults, but pleasing to God, That relationship justified the protection of God, making him the richest in the East.

When Job rose up to witness what an unleashed Devil could do, he refused to blame God. It wasn't done by the hand of God, but by permission of God to answer Satan's challenge. Job was not living under a strong covenant like Abraham inherited, probably having blessing of only the Noahic covenant.

The upright man Job came through the whole of it quite impressively, but the sons he sanctified and sacrified for were lost, and his wife had some "splainin' to do before God. Sure, Job got off into some stinkin' thinkin', but where's the facts to convict him of sin? What Job did for those kids is similar to the responsibility of parents today, who ought to dedicate their children to God regardless of outcome as soon as possible. If anyone sinned, it was Job's family, and of course, Satan.

Very well put! Thank you so much. To answer your question....(Its been answered farther up) It was what Job had done with the fear...Each time a round of parties was over Job made sacrifices to God in case they blasphemed God... All he had to do was tell God about his concern and give it to God to keep them on the straight and narrow. The thing he did wrong? He tried to handle it himself and did not trust God. In doing so, he opened a gate in that hedge of protection...vs 12 where God told Satan there was a gate....already open...12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; It's in your power now.

 

[Dovegiven]

Very well put! Thank you so much. To answer your question....(Its been answered farther up) It was what Job had done with the fear...Each time a round of parties was over Job made sacrifices to God in case they blasphemed God... All he had to do was tell God about his concern and give it to God to keep them on the straight and narrow. The thing he did wrong? He tried to handle it himself and did not trust God. In doing so, he opened a gate in that hedge of protection...vs 12 where God told Satan there was a gate....already open...12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; It's in your power now.

I've held that view a long time, the story used by preachers to teach how fear can be powerfully negative. However, it seems out of character for God not to extend a hand to Job like Jesus did for Peter on the water. I think Job was simply doing what men did since Abel made a good sacrifice by blood. Job did the same.

Also, let's discuss why the whole communication was between God and Satan, none directly to Job during that meeting of angels, probably in one of the gates of Heaven. The man was left on his ranch "guilty" of wanting to make right what his sons and daughters might have done, living in luxury, partying house to house, eating an drinking (I will add speculation 'instead of running the business'}. That was the way ancients held such meetings, a meeting place outside the throne room, on some planet called "Judgment", wherever, the location impertinent for the subject. God was not on record of finding fault in Job in that meeting or before, and neither did Satan bring up a fear factor. I think modern doctrine is apt to assume more than actually written. The sacrifice for the family would not, in my opinion, not constitute an act of fear, but would more closely fit an act of hope, a keeping of the youths from persistent unproductive decisions. We do that today, not in fear, but out of duty to pray for, to go way out of our way to see our children succeed with God.

It might be the partying of the sons and daughters got Satan's attention, which would happen out of the control of Job. It's possible Satan had a strong case to attack based on the children's activities.

The main point Satan made was Job was not accessible to him, that he was not subject to testing of his faith. Today, in Christ, Christians are not subject to such judgments, being tested by Satan as though he is an enforcer for God.

I believe God knew the heart of Job, as stated in the opening verses, so was not risking the loss of Job to Satan by letting the hedge down for a while. God has continued to drop hedges from around nations that depart from Him, letting them fall in shame, but none of that has to do with life in Christ except by association. If a righteous Christian lives in a wicked nation being judged, like the prophets were in Israel, he/she is subject to being taken captive, as proved in history.

Say on, Brother.

 

[Bendito]

I've held that view a long time, the story used by preachers to teach how fear can be powerfully negative. However, it seems out of character for God not to extend a hand to Job like Jesus did for Peter on the water. I think Job was simply doing what men did since Abel made a good sacrifice by blood. Job did the same.

Also, let's discuss why the whole communication was between God and Satan, none directly to Job during that meeting of angels, probably in one of the gates of Heaven. The man was left on his ranch "guilty" of wanting to make right what his sons and daughters might have done, living in luxury, partying house to house, eating an drinking (I will add speculation 'instead of running the business'}. That was the way ancients held such meetings, a meeting place outside the throne room, on some planet called "Judgment", wherever, the location impertinent for the subject. God was not on record of finding fault in Job in that meeting or before, and neither did Satan bring up a fear factor. I think modern doctrine is apt to assume more than actually written. The sacrifice for the family would not, in my opinion, not constitute an act of fear, but would more closely fit an act of hope, a keeping of the youths from persistent unproductive decisions. We do that today, not in fear, but out of duty to pray for, to go way out of our way to see our children succeed with God.

It might be the partying of the sons and daughters got Satan's attention, which would happen out of the control of Job. It's possible Satan had a strong case to attack based on the children's activities.

The main point Satan made was Job was not accessible to him, that he was not subject to testing of his faith. Today, in Christ, Christians are not subject to such judgments, being tested by Satan as though he is an enforcer for God.

I believe God knew the heart of Job, as stated in the opening verses, so was not risking the loss of Job to Satan by letting the hedge down for a while. God has continued to drop hedges from around nations that depart from Him, letting them fall in shame, but none of that has to do with life in Christ except by association. If a righteous Christian lives in a wicked nation being judged, like the prophets were in Israel, he/she is subject to being taken captive, as proved in history.

Say on, Brother.

I understand what you are saying....I could speak of legalities but it would cause more arguments.

 

[Dovegiven]

I understand what you are saying....I could speak of legalities but it would cause more arguments.

How about going through it line by line from verse one, with no opinions? I am seeking only to be a peacemaker between ya'll :smile:

 

[Bendito]

How about going through it line by line from verse one, with no opinions? I am seeking only to be a peacemaker between ya'll :smile:

Going through what? The legalities? That would make a book.

Really though....I don't think there is a war going on....At least on the part of fishen and I