Tribulation Outtakes

[B-A-C]

But then too,Bill says he’s one of them

Perhaps, but if so... he will be dead in Jerusalem in less than 3 1/2 years.

 

[Snake Bait]

Who are the two olive trees? The two lampstands? I don't know. But I've heard a lot of speculation about it.

Some people think it might be Moses and Elijah, because they had the power to keep it from raining, and had the power to turn to water into blood. ( That is, God did it through them ).
Other's think perhaps it might be Enoch and Elijah, as they were the only two humans in the Bible that never died a natural death. Perhaps they die in Jerusalem? I don't know.
Some tie two olive trees, to the natural olive tree that God grafts believers into. The natural Olive branches are the Jews, and the "grafted in" branches are Gentiles. So perhaps they could be
Jews because of this. I don't know. It's a little bit of a stretch, but closer than anything else I have.

I do know this, not everyone who says they are a Jew actually is...

Rev 2:9; 'I know your tribulation and your poverty (but you are rich), and the blasphemy by those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.
Rev 3:9; 'Behold, I will cause those of the synagogue of Satan, who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and make them know that I have loved you.

Yet more controversial verses ( what else is new? ) Many believe this is about biological/ethnic Jews, others believe it simply means believers. Either way, there are people who say they are, but are not.

You have forgotten the scripture Twistie was quoting.

Romans 2:28 and 29

"To be a Jew is not just to look like a jew, and circumcision is more than just a physical operation. The real Jew is the one who is inwardly a jew, and the real circumcision is in the heart- something not of the letter but of the spirit. Would you like that may not be praised by man, but he will be praised by God"

 

[B-A-C]

"To be a Jew is not just to look like a jew, and circumcision is more than just a physical operation. The real Jew is the one who is inwardly a jew, and the real circumcision is in the heart- something not of the letter but of the spirit. Would you like that may not be praised by man, but he will be praised by God"

Agreed,... but even so...

Not everyone who says they are, actually is.

Rom 2:25; For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26; So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
Rom 2:27; And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
Rom 2:28; For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
Rom 2:29; But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.;

However, much like Rev 2 and 3, many believe the word "Jew" here, simply means believer. Not everyone agrees of course, and I won't argue either way.

 

[Snake Bait]

I always heard it was either Moses and Elijah,or Elijah and Enoch.
But then too,Bill says he’s one of them

The spirit of the witness, is the spirit of Elijah, which is the spirit of John the Baptist. It doesn't mean that it is the same person but it is someone who is like that other person in spirit.

Do you remember what Jesus said to the apostles when the apostles were asking about this very question, having to do with John the Baptist and Elijah.

Matthew 17: 9 through 13

"As they came down from the mountain Jesus gave them this order, 'tell no one about the vision until the Son of Man has risen from the dead'. And the disciples put this question to him, 'why do the scribes say that Elijah has to come first?' 'True' he replied, 'Elijah is to come to see that everything is once more as it should be, however I tell you that Elijah has come already and they did not recognize him but treated him as a pleased, and the son of man will suffer similarly at their hands'. The disciples understood that he had been speaking of John the Baptist"

Jesus says that "Elijah is to come" and Jesus also said "Elijah has come"

As you see, the second reference was pointing to John the Baptist.

But the first referance "is to come" has not yet happened.

We know Elijah lived from reading the pages of the Old Testiment. And we know John the Baptist was born from a woman and was killed. And we know they had the same spirit.

This same spirit will be in the Two Witnesses, and both will be born and living before they are called to Jerusalem.

 

[Snake Bait]

Agreed,... but even so...

Not everyone who says they are, actually is.

Rom 2:25; For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision.
Rom 2:26; So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
Rom 2:27; And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
Rom 2:28; For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
Rom 2:29; But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.;

However, much like Rev 2 and 3, many believe the word "Jew" here, simply means believer. Not everyone agrees of course, and I won't argue either way.

Even you are a Jew, by way of the Spirit, for your heart is circumcised

 

[Snake Bait]

If Bill says he is one of the Two Witnesses, then instead of condemming him, we should pay attention to what he has written. Does it line up with the Word of God.

What has been the teaching he gives, and has he made any prophecies?

Pay attention to the fruit , what comes from the devil is 90% truth and 10% lie.

 

[B-A-C]

instead of condemming him, we should pay attention to what he has written

Where did I condemn him?

 

[Twistie]

However you look at it, they will be Israelites.

Well that went right over your head..

However you look at it, they will be Israelites.

Twistie

 

[lentz]

If Bill says he is one of the Two Witnesses, then instead of condemming him, we should pay attention to what he has written. Does it line up with the Word of God.

What has been the teaching he gives, and has he made any prophecies?

Pay attention to the fruit , what comes from the devil is 90% truth and 10% l

Well that went right over your head..

Twistie

How would you know

 

[Twistie]

How would you know

Your words testify to it...

Twistie

 

[Snake Bait]

Where did I condemn him?

I was making a general comment, as there seem to be a number of people against him.

I have been reading his comments and others responces

 

[Snake Bait]

Well that went right over your head..

Twistie

Yes it did, clean over

 

[samahah]

My opinion of the Two Witnesses and the Temple is different than most.

First, a temple doesn't need rebuilding for end-time prophecy to pass. Daniel says the temple remains desolate until the consummation.

Second, there does seem to be some sort of global beast coming, I'm not convinced he or it is the same beast as the Anti-Christ who in my opinion is likely NOT a global dictator. The Anti-Christ unites a coalition of Muslim nations and comes against Israel to rule from the Temple Mount.

The Dome of the Rock or Al-Aqsa mosque is where the Two Witness prophecy takes place and passes. The Dome of the Rock is where Muhammad supposedly ascended to heaven from and also where the Two Witnesses will rise from. My opinion is they are witnessing to Muslim's in the courtyard of the Temple mount. Which is why John was told not to measure it in Chapter 11.

"Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months."

In the Old Testament there were times where measuring something indicated ownership, protection, and preservation and think that's what is being implied here. The Temple Mount - AKA Mount Moriah - is the only piece of ground on earth that God has personally claimed as His own.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

There has been far too much personal digs and even supporters of such fleshy behavior on this thread.

Rather than writing about and against other members, try to deal with the subject the member puts up for reading.
Doing so might take a bit longer and might not appease the flesh and carnal but it would continue dialogue about the topic of the thread rather than displaying a testimony which does in no way glorify the Lord.

Read that again, please.


TalkJesus is not here to spout off against each other.

What manner of conversation comes from you all?

Thread temporarily closed so all can consider their way and see if perhaps doing better would be better.

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you all ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

PS....

One of you could open a new thread about the Two Witnesses.... or search an existing one out and add to it?

But PLEASE keep personal comments out of it.

 

[Br. Bear]

Thread open

Post in Peace

 

[NoHype]

The tribulation concerns Israel,hence Jacobs Trouble. The Church is no where mentioned.
Also,the first seal is Christ sending the Comforter he promised,"not many days hence".

Revelation 13:4-8 reveals the "dragon" will have power over the saints, and over all nations for 42 months (i.e., the 1260 days or 42 months of Rev.11). Did you miss that? It will affect all... peoples alive on earth, not just the nation of Israel in the middle east.

The 1st Seal of Revelation 6 is about the coming pseudo-Christ that Jesus warned of in Matthew 24:23-26. It's rendered plural as "false Christs" in English with most translations, but the actual context there is about a singular false-Messiah. Thus the 1st Seal rider on the white horse, which has only one crown, represents a fake Christ. Per Rev.19, Jesus comes riding a white horse wearing many crowns.

The Signs of the end Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13 are parallels to the Seals of Rev.6. And those Signs Lord Jesus gave for His Church, and commanded us to 'watch' those Signs leading up to His future return on the last day of this present world.

 

[Bill]

Revelation 13:4-8 reveals the "dragon" will have power over the saints, and over all nations for 42 months (i.e., the 1260 days or 42 months of Rev.11). Did you miss that? It will affect all... peoples alive on earth, not just the nation of Israel in the middle east.

The 1st Seal of Revelation 6 is about the coming pseudo-Christ that Jesus warned of in Matthew 24:23-26. It's rendered plural as "false Christs" in English with most translations, but the actual context there is about a singular false-Messiah. Thus the 1st Seal rider on the white horse, which has only one crown, represents a fake Christ. Per Rev.19, Jesus comes riding a white horse wearing many crowns.

The Signs of the end Jesus gave in His Olivet discourse of Matt.24 and Mark 13 are parallels to the Seals of Rev.6. And those Signs Lord Jesus gave for His Church, and commanded us to 'watch' those Signs leading up to His future return on the last day of this present world.

He will have power over the Saints.

In the same way that someone would have power over you to kill you, or the government may have power over you to do different things this is true. But as far as power over us to make us think, or to force us not to believe in God, or Force us not to love God. That will not happen.

The Saints will be martyred there is no doubt about that, not all but many if not most. Even the two witnesses are not above being martyred

 

[watertolive]

He who saves his life, shall lose it.
He who loses his life for His name sake, shall preserve it.

We will be given the choice to live or die at the hand of man.
Don't be afraid to die at their hand; for greater is HE that is in you, than he that is in the world.

God first always

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

Rev 11:7; When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.
Rev 13:7; It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.