Understanding Revelation

[lentz]

He's emphatically not a new age liberal. If you disagree with something he says, then state it and say why. Throwing cheap labels about doesn't help anybody.

You've revealed rather a lot about the depth of your own character here.

I have never heard of the man for petes sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Hekuran]

I have never heard of the man for petes sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You've never heard him, yet you can freely bandy around inflammatory terms such as "new age" and "liberal"? Nasty.

 

[lentz]

You've never heard him, yet you can freely bandy around inflammatory terms such as "new age" and "liberal"? Nasty.

If he dont agree with pretrib rapture

 

[complete]

To understand the book, you need a study of the other 65 books.

Jesus told John to write in 3 categories. The things that were, the things that are and the things to come.
Chapter 1, talks of things that were. Chapters 2 and 3 the things that are, the Church age. Chapter 4 and onward the rapture,tribulation,millennium and final things.

I cant tell if you're agreeing with me or not

'Write the things which thou hast seen,
and the things which are,
and the things which shall be hereafter;'
(Rev 1:19)

Hello @lentz,

I agree that the other books of the Bible, especially the prophetic books, are important to read, in order to understand the book of Revelation. In regard to the verse above, to which words you refer in your OP, and the categories which you believe to exist within it, in reference to chapters 1, 2, 3 & 4, I do not agree with.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[lentz]

'Write the things which thou hast seen,
and the things which are,
and the things which shall be hereafter;'
(Rev 1:19)

Hello @lentz,

I agree that the other books of the Bible, especially the prophetic books, are important to read, in order to understand the book of Revelation. In regard to the verse above, to which words you refer in your OP, and the categories which you believe to exist within it, in reference to chapters 1, 2, 3 & 4, I do not agree with.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thats ok. You're still my brother. And when we get to heaven,im coming over to your house everyday.

 

[complete]

@StewardoftheMystery said in reply#7-
The Lords day was the day of the week John heard the voice, it is not to be confused with the future “the day of the Lord”. That is a futurist view.

Jesus said the time was at hand.

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Revelation 22:10
And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

These things were to shortly come to pass…

Hello there,

In Revelation 1:9 we are told that John saw and received this revelation on, 'the Lord's Day,' I am aware that the majority of people, being accustomed from infancy to hear the first day of the week called, 'The Lord's Day', conclude that it is that day which is being referred to in this verse. Yet, the fact is that it is this verse which is responsible for that day being called, 'The Lord's Day', and not the other way round. For throughout the New Testament this day is always called, 'the first day of the week,' (Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2 & 9; John 20:1 & 19; Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2). There is no evidence of any kind that, 'the first day of the week,' was ever called, 'the Lord's Day,' before the book of Revelation was written.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[lentz]

Hello there,

In Revelation 1:9 we are told that John saw and received this revelation on 'the Lord's Day,' I am aware that the majority of people, being accustomed from infancy to hear the first day of the week called 'The Lord's Day', conclude that it is that day which is being referred to in this verse. Yet, the fact is that it is this verse which is responsible for that day being called, 'The Lord's Day', and not the other way round. For throughout the New Testament this day is always called, 'the first day of the week' (Matt. 28:1; Mark 16:2 & 9; John 20:1 & 19; Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2). There is no evidence of any kind that 'the first day of the week' was ever called 'the Lord's Day' before the book of Revelation was written.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Yes Chris. It was Sunday when John saw these things.

 

[complete]

Yes Chris. It was Sunday when John saw these things.

Hello @lentz,

That is not the meaning of 'The Lord's Day' in Revelation 1:9, as I have explained in reply#26. The day of the week upon which the revelation was received is immaterial, for the term, 'The Lord's Day', refers to the yet future day, into which John, by the Spirit, was taken in vision, to see the events which would take place within it.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

@StewardoftheMystery
The Lords day was the day of the week John heard the voice, it is not to be confused with the future “the day of the Lord”. That is a futurist view.

Jesus said the time was at hand.

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Revelation 22:10
And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

These things were to shortly come to pass…
Revelation 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:”

Also the Revelation contains past, present, and future events.

Revelation 1:19​

19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;​

Also the language God uses is very symbolic in the Revelation, as God spoke by the prophets using similitudes, proverbs and parables, and dark sayings, even Jesus taught in this same manner.

Hosea 12:10
I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.

Matthew 13:34
All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:”

And only those who are anointed and chosen by God will understand the many mysteries contained in the words of God, including the Revelation.

Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:”

Only those who have the mind of Wisdom, which is the mind of Christ, shall understand.

Daniel 12:10
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

'Blessed is he that readeth,
and they that hear the words of this prophecy,
and keep those things which are written therein:
for the time is at hand.
(Rev.1:3 )

'And he saith unto me,
Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book:
for the time is at hand.'
(Rev.22:10)

Hello there,

In Revelation 1:3, the Greek word, 'kairos', translated, 'time', refers to the ordained and appointed time: that is the time occupied by what is written, ie., the advent of the Day of the Lord. The prophecy of this book is not to be put aside as though it referred to things far off, but the fact that the Lord will return and that in judgment, should be the spur we need to keep us walking in a manner which is honouring to Him, for that 'day' could be nearer than we think.

This is man's day, and man is judging (1 Corinthians 4:3), but the day is fast approaching when the Lord will be Judge, and the day will be, 'The Day of the Lord', or, 'The Lord's Day'.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

'The first day of the week
cometh Mary Magdalene early,
when it was yet dark,
unto the sepulchre,
and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.'
(John 20:1)

'Then the same day at evening,
being the first day of the week,
when the doors were shut
where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews,
came Jesus and stood in the midst,
and saith unto them,
Peace be unto you.'
(John 20:19)

Hello there, @StewardoftheMystery

Why would John use any other words to express the first day of the week, other than that to which he was accustomed; if it was that day to which he was referring in Revelation 1:10?

'I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,
and heard behind me a great voice,
as of a trumpet, '
(Rev 1:10)

* See reply#26.

Thank you
in Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Hello there, @StewardoftheMystery

Why would John use any other words to express the first day of the week, other than that to which he was accustomed; if it was that day to which he was referring in Revelation 1:10?

'I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,
and heard behind me a great voice,
as of a trumpet, '
(Rev 1:10)

* See reply#26.

Thank you
in Christ Jesus
Chris

I could ask the same question. Why would John say it was “the Lords day” and not the prophecy of “the day of the Lord” as shown in Joel chapter 2?

If you look at the prophecy concerning “the day of the Lord” it is the coming of the Lord with His armies or host from heaven. Which is included in the Revelation, but the Revelation is not limited to that one event, it is much more.

For instance the Revelation contains events that happened before John received the Revelation from Jesus.

Shown here in Revelation chapter 12 with the birth of Jesus and His ascension into heaven…

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”

This proves not all events in the Revelation had to do with future events, but some were already past events.

 

[complete]

I could ask the same question. Why would John say it was “the Lords day” and not the prophecy of “the day of the Lord” as shown in Joel chapter 2?

If you look at the prophecy concerning “the day of the Lord” it is the coming of the Lord with His armies or host from heaven. Which is included in the Revelation, but the Revelation is not limited to that one event, it is much more.

For instance the Revelation contains events that happened before John received the Revelation from Jesus.

Shown here in Revelation chapter 12 with the birth of Jesus and His ascension into heaven…

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”

This proves not all events in the Revelation had to do with future events, but some were already past events.

Hello there,

The book of Revelation consists of a series of visions, which set forth the events connected with, 'the Revelation of Jesus Christ', which will take place during 'the Lord's DAY'; that day being so called because it is viewed in the book of Revelation as being then present; it had been previously called in prophecy, 'the day of the Lord.'

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Hello there,

The book of Revelation consists of a series of visions, which set forth the events connected with, 'the Revelation of Jesus Christ', which will take place during 'the Lord's DAY'; that day being so called because it is viewed in the book of Revelation as being then present; it had been previously called in prophecy, 'the day of the Lord.'

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

Believe what you will Chris, but John was instructed by Jesus to testify on past, present, and future events.

This testimony and prophecy started long ago, the great and terrible Day of The Lord is just a small piece of everything that is shown in the Revelation leading up to the Lord coming with all His saints and angels.

 

[PloughBoy]

To understand the book,you need a study of the other 65 books.

Jesus told John to write in 3 categories. The things that were,the things that are and the things to come.
Chapter 1,talks of things that were. Chapters 2 and 3 the things that are,the Church age. Chapter 4 and onward the rapture,tribulation,millennium and final things.

 

[complete]

Hello there,

The book of Revelation consists of a series of visions, which set forth the events connected with, 'the Revelation of Jesus Christ', which will take place during 'the Lord's DAY'; that day being so called because it is viewed in the book of Revelation as being then present; it had been previously called in prophecy, 'the day of the Lord.'

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

* Ref: replies#5, 26, 26, 28, 29, 30 & 32

'I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,
and heard behind me a great voice,
as of a trumpet,'
(Rev 1:10)

Hello again,

In Ezekiel we have a similar experience recorded by Ezekiel:-

'The hand of the LORD was upon me,
and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD,
and set me down in the midst of the valley
which was full of bones,'
(Eze.37:1 )

Ezekiel was taken, 'in the spirit of the LORD', to a different location, and another time, in vision.

* I believe that John was also taken, in the same manner, into the Lord's day, and that all that he records as 'seeing' there, takes place within that timescale, which is yet to come.

' Write the things which thou hast seen,
and the things which are,
and the things which shall be hereafter;'
(Rev 1:19)

* The command to write, refers to all that John saw, and not merely what he had seen in verses 12-16: and what they are, or signify. Also, basing a system of interpretation on the words, 'the things that are' in reference to chapters 2 & 3, when they are never so spoken of, is flimsy at best; and is entirely hypothetical,

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

This event is already past….

Revelation 12:2-12​

​

King James Version​

​

​

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”

Jesus is the man child who was caught up to God in heaven, and who is to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

Also Jesus announced WHEN Satan was cast to be cast out of heaven.

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.”

 

[complete]

This event is already past….

Revelation 12:2-12​

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”

Jesus is the man child who was caught up to God in heaven, and who is to rule the nations with a rod of iron.

Also Jesus announced WHEN Satan was cast to be cast out of heaven.

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.”

Hello there, @StewardoftheMystery,

You left out verse one:-

'And there appeared a great wonder (sign) in heaven;​

a woman clothed with the sun,​

and the moon under her feet,​

and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:​

And she being with child cried,​

travailing in birth,​

and pained to be delivered.'​

(Rev 12:1-2)​

* This is a 'great sign', and it's signification is made clear by the story of Joseph.

'And he dreamed yet another dream,​

and told it his brethren, and said,​

Behold, I have dreamed a dream more;​

and, behold,​

the sun and the moon and the eleven stars​

made obeisance to me.'​

(Gen 37:9)​

* His Father Joseph, knew at once what it meant, and said in verse 10:-

'And he told it to his father, and to his brethren:​

and his father rebuked him, and said unto him,​

What is this dream that thou hast dreamed?​

Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren​

indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?'​

(Gen 37:10)​

* Eleven brothers mentioned because Joseph, believed dead, was the twelfth.
This is the whole nation in embryo.

* The 'sign' of the travailing woman, and her being in pain to be delivered, signifies the expectant attitude of Israel. The promised seed was meant to be the one great hope of the nation; to which everything pointed and to which everything testified. The woman is the sign of Israel, representing the nation as a whole.

* The second 'sign' is 'the great red dragon' signifying Israel's great enemy, the old serpent, the devil.

* These two signs take us back to events which date 'from the foundation of the world', and the prophecy concerning 'the seed of the woman' (Gen. 3:15), who will crush the serpents head. Satan is seen here standing before the woman in order to destroy her seed as soon as it should be brought forth. In 12:5 we see the Man Child, who is about to rule all nations with a rod of Iron. This is yet future.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[StewardoftheMystery]

Satan is seen here standing before the woman in order to destroy her seed as soon as it should be brought forth. In 12:5 we see the Man Child, who is about to rule all nations with a rod of Iron. This is yet future.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Nope, already been fulfilled.

Revelation 12:4
And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

So how did the Dragon try to devour Jesus as soon as he was born?

Here is the answer…

Matthew 2:16-20

King James Version

​

16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men.
17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying,
18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.
19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,
20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.”

 

[PloughBoy]

The book that we called "Revelation" is an "Explanation Expression Title" is not a name of a book or a letter it has nothing to do with a name of a book or letter.

It is "The REVELATION" meaning the Unveiling of "Jesus Christ ". Period! Nothing more or nothing less. "it is "A MARK" That must be Hit. It Is nat a name of a Book or letter, with verses in it. But everybody knows this elementary grade school kindergarten Bible, God centered WORD, that has been Entitle "Revelation" But this worldly paganistic ungodly world have corrupted even the best of us our "minds" to put on The dress "OfMissLeadingTheMases" and as They walk in "The Hills" and "the country Sides of the Land called "I know, I know"".

It Is The The Unveiling, From All Creation To The End: "The Alpha And The Omega". It Tells The Whole Complete Story! "The Unveiling What It Is All About! it is the UNVEILING of The SON OF GOD and why from The Beginning to The END of All things" He is "The REVELATION" of what it is All about.

I tried to say nothing and not to get involved, day after day, and not to interfere. And as I watch, the devil kept right on Feeding the deceptions and no one had the Power or the wisdom to see out of the darkness the evil that was "Unfolding".No one said "LORD, Here am I send me, I will go." I said it, almost 50 years ago, and one day He called me on those very Words that came out of my mouth. And He said: "DO YOU REMEMBER Those Words that came out of Your Mouth and He call me on those very Words and he said: You said "LORD I will serve you Until The day I die, any where and anytime and anyhow"

and today That Fire started to Burn and it burned Hot and I could not sit back and hold my peace, It was Like "Fire shut up in My bones:" and the flames mused within me, how could I disappoint My LORD. and become "Luke warm" like so many have become as if that is "Normal" and The Walk of A "Child Of The Living God", Even My Own Mother Dying On Her Dying Bed Of "Pancreatic Cancer' As I Watch Her Breathing Her Last Breath Roared And Gave Glory To GOD With The Power of GOD"
And I told her, when she get there, tell everybody, That I am coming too!

But yet everybody Knows the Greek and Hebrew Languages and Grammar syntax's and is Anointed In The POWER Of GOD, to do so with The Full Authority Of The Almighty GOD to do so! to tear down kingdoms, words, Villages and cities and towns. and Principalities and their wisdom and intelligence of all mankind as if they where not .

Legacy Standard Bible
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His slaves the things which must soon happen; and He indicated this by sending it through His angel to His slave John,

Amplified Bible
This Is The Revelation Of Jesus Christ [His unveiling of the divine mysteries], which God [the Father] gave to Him to show to His bond-servants (believers) the things which must soon take place [in their entirety]; and He sent and communicated it by His angel (divine messenger) to His bond-servant John,
For Jesus did not begin in Mary's womb He is The Creator of ALL ! For the Son created it All ! For there is nothing that exist that he did not Create.
And there is A letter Written to the 7 Congregations The Assembly of His Slaves in Asia. The Unveiling who he is.


Like Martha claiming she knew her brother will rise In the resurrection. Jesus: Martha, you do not know. "I AM The RESURRECTION"
[Martha, Peter, You do not know who "I AM". For you, only know words.]