Were Men Born Again Before Pentecost?

[Sue D.]

Curtis -- where a person is placing their faith makes the difference. Before the cross people looked Towards the promised Messiah. Their faith was placed in That promise. And then when Jesus went to hell and back In our place -- he brought those who'd been waiting For him , back With Him who'd been in Abraham's bosom in the Paradise part. Those in the other part were left there.

We look back AT the cross and are thankful for what Jesus Christ did back then. We either place our faith in That or don't.


That verse is saying that without the bodily resurrection Of Christ - we have Nothing. And, yes, we'd Still be in our sins. But He HAS risen so we Do have someplace to place our faith In.

 

[Curtis]

Eph 1:20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
Eph 1:22 And he put all things under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

Jesus did not become the "head" of the Church until after his resurrection from the dead! Nobody could be baptized by one Spirit into one body, (1 Cor 12:13) which is what happens at the new birth!

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The Holy Spirit could not have been given until after Jesus would send him after his glorification!

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

The Holy Spirit (which is how a person is "born of the Spirit")did not come until after Jesus had prayed the Father to send him!

John 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

The Holy Spirit only came so men could be born again after Jesus sat down on the right hand of God the Father in his glorification!

 

[Sue D.]

Actually the Holy Spirit came -- Jesus told his disciples that --while He, Jesus Christ was still here bodily -- He could only be one place at a time. But -- when He ascended back up to the Father, Then the Holy Spirit Could come and be with all believers all over the world all the time.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Seeing that the Lord made Regeneration (the New Birth) mandatory for entrance to the Kingdom of God, it is something that all Christians should understand thoroughly. One of the best ways, in my view, to teach on this matter is to ask this question, "Were men born again before Pentecost?" In the years I have been debating this I would put the responses at 95% say yes, the rest say no. So before you answer this question give it a little thought, because if you have not given it thought before (and many haven't) it might be you are in for a surprise. And if you don't mind please mention whether this is a question you have given thought to before.

God bless.

This is essentially the central issue beteen Continuationalist, and Cessationist paradigms. Naturally MUCH thought, argument, and general angst has, and continues to be applied to the question -

AS far as I'm concerned, Biblically there were TWO initial instances wherein the Holy Spirit is specifically involved - the FIRST was on the evening of the Ressurection in the upper room, where Jesus showed up in the midst of the disciples int the upper room and "BREATHED" ON THEM saying: Receive ye the Holy Spirit. When God "Breathes" on you, that's an impartation - i.e. the Holy Spirit INDWELLING The disciples - making them Born Again Christians.

Jesus then instructed them to hang around Jerusalem until they "Were endued with power from on high" an "enduement" is an external clothing. On Pentecost, this fulfillment happened, and the Holy Spirit (who was already indwelling the Disciples) came UPON THEM, and immediately the endued POWER was demonstrated by the conviction if SIN and of JUDGEMENT falling on 3000 folks (cut to the heart).

SO Acts 2:4 Pentecost isn't related to Salvation, which was recorded in John 20:22. but is related to the EMPOWERING of the church by the Holy Spirit ON the believers.

 

[Sue D.]

Regarding your last sentence -- each believer is given a spiritual gift upon salvation and the using of the individual's spiritual gift empowers the church to be effective in ministering within the church specifically.
So, yes.

 

[gsmonte]

Seeing that the Lord made Regeneration (the New Birth) mandatory for entrance to the Kingdom of God, it is something that all Christians should understand thoroughly. One of the best ways, in my view, to teach on this matter is to ask this question, "Were men born again before Pentecost?" In the years I have been debating this I would put the responses at 95% say yes, the rest say no. So before you answer this question give it a little thought, because if you have not given it thought before (and many haven't) it might be you are in for a surprise. And if you don't mind please mention whether this is a question you have given thought to before.

God bless.

 

[gsmonte]

With respect to S. T. Ranger's question, "were men born again before Pentecost?", it is falsely suggesting that men are "born again" at Pentecost, and or after. For centuries mankind and christendom have accepted this deceiving spirit(born again) as Divinely breathed(spoken), yet it is not Scripture, for it does not stand the test(1 Jn. 4:1-7; 1 Thess. 5:18-22; 2 Tim. 3:16,17). First of all, and this may be revelation to many, mankind was made, formed out of the dust(earth) and subjected to vanity, corruption(Rom. 8:19-21). Thus man is/was begotten out of darkness(death, flesh), Adam(1 Cor. 15:22-24,45-47), and as Messiah said to Nick at Night(Nicodemus)..."Do not be astonished seeing what I said to you(Nick). It is binding that you all(all men) be begotten(generated) from above(out of God,who is Light)"(Jn. 3:7). 1 Peter 1:3, "...the God.....regenerates(begets again) us into a living expectation(hope) through resurrection of Yahusha HaMashiach(Jesus, the Christ) out of dead-ones(bodies)." He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, that Spiritual Water(Jn. 3:5), that we(all men) are now being begotten in(out of darkness(death) and into the Light(Life). Begotten twice-first out of a dying father and mother into a dying world(death, mortal), and then out of the Living Father and Son and into a Divine Kingdom(Life, Immortal). Thus we are born out of death through His resurrecting out of our dead-bodies. Consider Phil. 3:8-11,12-15. Let He who has an ear, hear what the Spirit(the Anointed-One) is saying. One more thing. "Being begotten from above"(Jn. 3:3) is not an individual experience, we are(Divine) Family being "gathered together"(2 Thess. 2:1) to Him, fulfilling the prophecy of Gen. 1:26a). Eph. 4:1-6 And may I be so bold(in the Master) to add "ONE BIRTH".

 

[Br. Bear]

With respect to S. T. Ranger's question, "were men born again before Pentecost?", it is falsely suggesting that men are "born again" at Pentecost, and or after. For centuries mankind and christendom have accepted this deceiving spirit(born again) as Divinely breathed(spoken), yet it is not Scripture, for it does not stand the test(1 Jn. 4:1-7; 1 Thess. 5:18-22; 2 Tim. 3:16,17). First of all, and this may be revelation to many, mankind was made, formed out of the dust(earth) and subjected to vanity, corruption(Rom. 8:19-21). Thus man is/was begotten out of darkness(death, flesh), Adam(1 Cor. 15:22-24,45-47), and as Messiah said to Nick at Night(Nicodemus)..."Do not be astonished seeing what I said to you(Nick). It is binding that you all(all men) be begotten(generated) from above(out of God,who is Light)"(Jn. 3:7). 1 Peter 1:3, "...the God.....regenerates(begets again) us into a living expectation(hope) through resurrection of Yahusha HaMashiach(Jesus, the Christ) out of dead-ones(bodies)." He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, that Spiritual Water(Jn. 3:5), that we(all men) are now being begotten in(out of darkness(death) and into the Light(Life). Begotten twice-first out of a dying father and mother into a dying world(death, mortal), and then out of the Living Father and Son and into a Divine Kingdom(Life, Immortal). Thus we are born out of death through His resurrecting out of our dead-bodies. Consider Phil. 3:8-11,12-15. Let He who has an ear, hear what the Spirit(the Anointed-One) is saying. One more thing. "Being begotten from above"(Jn. 3:3) is not an individual experience, we are(Divine) Family being "gathered together"(2 Thess. 2:1) to Him, fulfilling the prophecy of Gen. 1:26a). Eph. 4:1-6 And may I be so bold(in the Master) to add "ONE BIRTH".

Greetings

So when does this / that happen?

Bless you ....><>

 

[gsmonte]

Greetings

So when does this / that happen?

Bless you ....><>

"Now"! 2 Cor. 6:2 "Now is the day of Salvation" Rom. 6:3-11 if you have ears to hear, speaks of our baptism(death, burial and resurrection) that we are experiencing "now". Our being regenerated(begotten from above) has been happening for just about two days(Hosea 6:2), the third day(the Last day) is fast approaching. "Destroy this Temple"..... The body of the Anointed-One is the Temple which we, ekklesia, the Called-Out Ones, are His body(Eph. 1:23). The good thing(news, gospel) is, this is all happening passively. We(man) cannot prevent the appointed time(s). His will will be done(Isa. 46:10; 1 Tim. 2:4). Praise Yahuah

 

[Br. Bear]

"Now"! 2 Cor. 6:2 "Now is the day of Salvation" Rom. 6:3-11 if you have ears to hear, speaks of our baptism(death, burial and resurrection) that we are experiencing "now". Our being regenerated(begotten from above) has been happening for just about two days(Hosea 6:2), the third day(the Last day) is fast approaching. "Destroy this Temple"..... The body of the Anointed-One is the Temple which we, ekklesia, the Called-Out Ones, are His body(Eph. 1:23). The good thing(news, gospel) is, this is all happening passively. We(man) cannot prevent the appointed time(s). His will will be done(Isa. 46:10; 1 Tim. 2:4). Praise Yahuah

Thank you for explaining


Bless you ....><>

 

[newname]

Seeing that the Lord made Regeneration (the New Birth) mandatory for entrance to the Kingdom of God, it is something that all Christians should understand thoroughly. One of the best ways, in my view, to teach on this matter is to ask this question, "Were men born again before Pentecost?" In the years I have been debating this I would put the responses at 95% say yes, the rest say no. So before you answer this question give it a little thought, because if you have not given it thought before (and many haven't) it might be you are in for a surprise. And if you don't mind please mention whether this is a question you have given thought to before.

God bless.

I don't think they were born again, because they couldn't die and get raised with Jesus yet. He is the firstborn from the dead.
Yet He told Nicodemus he had to be born again.

 

[Brother-Paul]

With respect to S. T. Ranger's question, "were men born again before Pentecost?", it is falsely suggesting that men are "born again" at Pentecost, and or after. For centuries mankind and christendom have accepted this deceiving spirit(born again) as Divinely breathed(spoken), yet it is not Scripture, for it does not stand the test(1 Jn. 4:1-7; 1 Thess. 5:18-22; 2 Tim. 3:16,17). First of all, and this may be revelation to many, mankind was made, formed out of the dust(earth) and subjected to vanity, corruption(Rom. 8:19-21). Thus man is/was begotten out of darkness(death, flesh), Adam(1 Cor. 15:22-24,45-47), and as Messiah said to Nick at Night(Nicodemus)..."Do not be astonished seeing what I said to you(Nick). It is binding that you all(all men) be begotten(generated) from above(out of God,who is Light)"(Jn. 3:7). 1 Peter 1:3, "...the God.....regenerates(begets again) us into a living expectation(hope) through resurrection of Yahusha HaMashiach(Jesus, the Christ) out of dead-ones(bodies)." He is the Way, the Truth and the Life, that Spiritual Water(Jn. 3:5), that we(all men) are now being begotten in(out of darkness(death) and into the Light(Life). Begotten twice-first out of a dying father and mother into a dying world(death, mortal), and then out of the Living Father and Son and into a Divine Kingdom(Life, Immortal). Thus we are born out of death through His resurrecting out of our dead-bodies. Consider Phil. 3:8-11,12-15. Let He who has an ear, hear what the Spirit(the Anointed-One) is saying. One more thing. "Being begotten from above"(Jn. 3:3) is not an individual experience, we are(Divine) Family being "gathered together"(2 Thess. 2:1) to Him, fulfilling the prophecy of Gen. 1:26a). Eph. 4:1-6 And may I be so bold(in the Master) to add "ONE BIRTH".

Jesus Himself says.....

John 3:1-21 (NIV2011)
1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

 

[Sue D.]

I don't think they were born again, because they couldn't die and get raised with Jesus yet. He is the firstborn from the dead.
Yet He told Nicodemus he had to be born again.

The people in the Old Testament were given hope to look forward To. They believed in the promise of a coming Messiah and they died in that promise.

I was reading something rather interesting last night. Accounts from missionaries in various unreached parts of this world. They were in a particular village for the 1st time -- sharing / teaching on a very basic level -- one of the men was listening very intently and was asking questions. he said that he'd been waiting for 'something' and realized that That is what He had been waiting For. He immediately accept Christ as His Savior. Many others' did , also.

There Are people from all over this world pouring into This country -- as we speak. There is a great deal of debate about legal and non-legal entry. And our laws Do need to up-held. Do We share the Gospel unto salvation with 'whomever'.

In This country 'we' Could be in a position to either betray our Savior or be killed. What are We willing to do. And we might be part of a mass shooting -- unknowingly - until we find ourselves in the presence of God. Are We prepared for That?

 

[gsmonte]

Jesus Himself says.....

John 3:1-21 (NIV2011)
1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”
3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”
4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.
7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.

John 3:3,5,7,8 (Scripture) 3 .....amEn amEn legO soi ean mE tis gennEthE anOthen ou dunatai idein tEn basileian tou theou Faithfully, faithfully-I am saying-to you, unless-a certain one-is being begotten(generated)-fromabove, no one is able-to be perceiving-the Divine(God) Kingdom. 5 .....amEn amEn.............................gennEthE ex udatos kai pneumatos ou dunatai eiselthein eis tEn basileian tou thou Faithfully, faithfully..................is being begotten----from Spiritual Water---no one is able-to be entering---into the Divine Kingdom. 7 mE thaumasEs oti eipon soi dei umas gennEthEnai anOthen Do not be astonished-seeing what-I said-to you. It is binding that-you all(all men)-be begotten(generated) from above. 8 .....outOs estin pas ho gegennEmenos ek tou udatos kai tou pneumatos In this manner--------is--everyone-who- is being begotten-out of-----the Spiritual Water. Thus, 3:11

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Seeing that the Lord made Regeneration (the New Birth) mandatory for entrance to the Kingdom of God, it is something that all Christians should understand thoroughly. One of the best ways, in my view, to teach on this matter is to ask this question, "Were men born again before Pentecost?" In the years I have been debating this I would put the responses at 95% say yes, the rest say no. So before you answer this question give it a little thought, because if you have not given it thought before (and many haven't) it might be you are in for a surprise. And if you don't mind please mention whether this is a question you have given thought to before.

God bless.

Since on the EVENING of the Ressurection, when Jesus suddenly showed up in the upper room, He "BREATHED ON THEM" and said "receive ye the Holy Spirit". God "Breathing" on a person is an impartation. Luke's account of the same occasion says that He "Opened their understanding" which would be the effect of being indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

SO from that point on, the disciples were Born Again Christians.

Acts 2:4, is a different breed of cat. It WAS NOT an "Indwelling", it was an enduement (an external CLOTHING) of the power of the Holy Spirit. SO at Pentecost, the Holy Spirit "Came upon" Christians who already been indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

"Full Gospel" Christian groups have always understood the difference between being Born Again (John 20:22), and being "Endued with power from on high" (Acts 2:4).