What Happens to Those Who Never Hear the Gospel?

[Christ4Ever]

Our testimony well presented works well. I'm referring to a thread called "Question about churches/Denominations." In her OP her last words explained her current spiritual journey and position. She said, "Can you suggest for me some churches, or denominations that are a bit informal and at the same time welcoming to young people who are very new to the faith, or perhaps in the process of becoming Christians."

My issues are when a well meaning Christian approaches an unbeliever and goes off pounding things like, "you must be born again."
"you need to repent of your sins,"
"do you feel as if you are complete? Or are you looking for something that you can't find,"
"you're spiritually dead,"
"Many believe if they go to church they will go to Heaven, None of these things will save you, none of these will get you to heaven."

Even after BubbleFlower said, "You absolutely have NO idea. I am anything, but spiritually dead!" One of our most kind poster's says, -

Scripture tells us if Christ is not in us, we are spiritually dead, it is not I myself that says this. You can have a spirit in you, scripture confirms many of these, but if you are not born again, you do not have Christ's Spirit in you.

Then that same poster said to her...
"You need to come to Jesus, He is the only one who can save you. There is nothing I can do, nothing we can do except guide you to Jesus, to the cross he died on, to the place he shed is blood for you, for me, for us all, so that through Him we may receive eternal life."

I'm sorry, though what was said is true, that's NOT the way to present Christ to someone whose NOT a Christian. Presenting Christ like that turns people off and turns them away. I doubt we'll see Bubble-flower again. Hopefully, we will.

Hello Saginon,
I'm glad you agree that testimonies work well. However, you have me at a disadvantage by bringing in subject matter from another thread. There will always be examples of how not to witness to another. However, that cannot/should not stop a person from witnessing to a non-believer.

The little you wrote, on the conversation that occurred elsewhere only shows me that it's a believer talking to a non-believer. This is where you can come in, or any believer who understands the pitfalls of using condemnation as a tool for instruction. Though truth be told there have been believers that have come to the Lord, when showed the gates of hell that await them without Jesus as their Lord & Savior.

The real problem with Member Bubbleflower, was that she was not looking to hear anything concerning God, Jesus, or in truth anything religious outside of the parameters of how she could get her BF's parents to get out of the relationship she was having with her son. I even attempted to Evangelize some, but when she made it clear that she didn't want to hear it. I desisted.

You should also understand that there is a difference between the written word that we are dealing with here on this forum and witnessing in person. Writing provides the person many options that are not available when you are face to face witnessing with a person. Now whether the writer takes the opportunity/time to use those options, and they should, is entirely up to them. Prayer, study (research), and the ability to rewrite before posting is readily available to all, but not always used. While face to face doesn't provide this option except for silent prayer. This does make one have a greater and I believe necessary dependence on allowing the Holy Spirit to guide one in what words you should use. Which I also believe is paramount to any witnessing.

No matter how much we would desire a person to hear/receive the Gospel. They won't always be receptive to it. Sadly, more so on the written forums, because not all the words being written by believers are Spirit filled. As you have seen they may be theologically correct, but with the Love of Christ that the Holy Spirit allows you communicate with is surely missing many times. Few if any will come to the Lord in that fashion.

I hope you are understanding where I'm coming from, for surely I understand your position with what I previously called the self-righteous witness, and now you can add the one who believes arguing with a non-believer is constructive and can achieve what so far has not been received which is the Gospel and Salvation through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

God bless you.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[saginon]

Hello Saginon,
I'm glad you agree that testimonies work well. However, you have me at a disadvantage by bringing in subject matter from another thread. There will always be examples of how not to witness to another. However, that cannot/should not stop a person from witnessing to a non-believer.

The little you wrote, on the conversation that occurred elsewhere only shows me that it's a believer talking to a non-believer. This is where you can come in, or any believer who understands the pitfalls of using condemnation as a tool for instruction. Though truth be told there have been believers that have come to the Lord, when showed the gates of hell that await them without Jesus as their Lord & Savior.

The real problem with Member Bubbleflower, was that she was not looking to hear anything concerning God, Jesus, or in truth anything religious outside of the parameters of how she could get her BF's parents to get out of the relationship she was having with her son. I even attempted to Evangelize some, but when she made it clear that she didn't want to hear it. I desisted.

You should also understand that there is a difference between the written word that we are dealing with here on this forum and witnessing in person. Writing provides the person many options that are not available when you are face to face witnessing with a person. Now whether the writer takes the opportunity/time to use those options, and they should, is entirely up to them. Prayer, study (research), and the ability to rewrite before posting is readily available to all, but not always used. While face to face doesn't provide this option except for silent prayer. This does make one have a greater and I believe necessary dependence on allowing the Holy Spirit to guide one in what words you should use. Which I also believe is paramount to any witnessing.

No matter how much we would desire a person to hear/receive the Gospel. They won't always be receptive to it. Sadly, more so on the written forums, because not all the words being written by believers are Spirit filled. As you have seen they may be theologically correct, but with the Love of Christ that the Holy Spirit allows you communicate with is surely missing many times. Few if any will come to the Lord in that fashion.

I hope you are understanding where I'm coming from, for surely I understand your position with what I previously called the self-righteous witness, and now you can add the one who believes arguing with a non-believer is constructive and can achieve what so far has not been received which is the Gospel and Salvation through our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

God bless you.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

The girl is a believer, otherwise she wouldn't be asking about Church. The thread was called "Question about churches/Denominations." She asked - "Can you suggest for me some churches, or denominations that are a bit informal and at the same time welcoming to young people who are very new to the faith, or perhaps in the process of becoming Christians."

She was searching and asking with an open heart. Whether you agree or not, all I can tell you is the way BP responded to her was way off the mark and it made her a bit angry and defensive, and bottom line is it turned her off. We don't lead people to Christ by putting them down and making them feel inferior. If we present Christ and lift him up THE RIGHT WAY the holy spirit will take it from there. Too many preachers today feel like if they don't make a person feel guilty they aren't doing their job. The same way with witnessing. It's not good for a believer to tell people who are searching what their doing wrong, what they're lacking, or how and why they are inadequate without Christ. There are ways to present Jesus to seekers without coming on too strong. I've seen some real winners in the local mission field.

 

[Christ4Ever]

The girl is a believer, otherwise she wouldn't be asking about Church. The thread was called "Question about churches/Denominations." She asked - "Can you suggest for me some churches, or denominations that are a bit informal and at the same time welcoming to young people who are very new to the faith, or perhaps in the process of becoming Christians."

She was searching and asking with an open heart. Whether you agree or not, all I can tell you is the way BP responded to her was way off the mark and it made her a bit angry and defensive, and bottom line is it turned her off. We don't lead people to Christ by putting them down and making them feel inferior. If we present Christ and lift him up THE RIGHT WAY the holy spirit will take it from there. Too many preachers today feel like if they don't make a person feel guilty they aren't doing their job. The same way with witnessing. It's not good for a believer to tell people who are searching what their doing wrong, what they're lacking, or how and why they are inadequate without Christ. There are ways to present Jesus to seekers without coming on too strong. I've seen some real winners in the local mission field.

Hello Saginon,
Read the post you mentioned, as it pertains to the Member in question and when you read her introduction post you will find that she is not a believer and the purpose of her joining was the BF. She also originally posted this in the relationship forum as well. Now as to thread you answered to and are referencing. It seems she was agitated with Brother Paul on being spiritually dead, but then she was agitated at my responses to her as well in the introduction forum. My responses hopefully were not accusatory, but I hope loving and honest. I guess she should have told him, what she had written in her introduction to me which basically was I don't want to hear it, and then maybe Brother Paul might have moved on. As it is, when dealing with strangers. You can only depend on the Holy Spirit to guide you and not necessarily what they are telling you. Two different postings with different thoughts! Imagine that!

You might want to take a look at the introduction postings of her. Here is the link so you don't have to go searching too much:

Hello

Hello. My name is Kacey. I am originally from Québec. We moved to the US when I was so young. This site came on my search when I was looking for Christian forums and family matters. I am not a believer. I have no religion, but I am in a relationship with a Christian, and I am madly in love with...

www.talkjesus.com

You'll see what I'm talking about, as I can see what you are saying, but need to realize that she is not saved in the least. Dealing with individuals who do not know the Lord or even those who do that are young to the faith, can get to be a convoluted experience, because they're usually fighting against the enemy that keeps telling this or that, but which comes down to "your not worthy, or it's hogwash" attacks.

Interesting to say the least!
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Sue D.]

@Christ4Ever

I hope that it's okay -- I just clicked into the link and responded back with her.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Christ4Ever

I hope that it's okay -- I just clicked into the link and responded back with her.

We'll see Sister!! :smile: LOL
Just the love of Christ Sister!!! or you might have Saginon after you....just kidding.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Sue D.]

@Christ4Ever -- I've been taking pains to Not respond directly back to him. Biting my tongue a couple of times to refrain -- especially on the thread that I started.

People are so unique / interesting.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Rarely do I get involved with a conversations the one above, I walk away as I did when questioned about witnessing.

I question myself here and pray before writing as part of me says these things are best dealt with other ways.

But, I do feel drawn to this one post here, because in simple terms there is more than one way to skin a rabbit, as the saying goes.

Sometimes we feel led to speak quietly, deal with situations gently, and I have done so in the past. But. sometimes the spirit guides us to speak out, speak the word. We may not know why, the wind blows where it will, we do not know where it has come from or where it is going, it is not for us to know. Why? Because quite simply we do not know what is going on in a persons heart, but the Lord does.

On a forum, as Nick says, we are not face to face with a person to pick up vibes, to pick up facial expressions, bodily actions that can speak to us, the forum is word vs word sharing and talking. This can be a disadvantage but can also be an advantage. Using The Word even more so I think.

Also with a forum, particularly with new members we can have, saved souls, searching souls, troubled souls and mischievous souls, I felt BubbleFlower was a troubled soul, this is not looking at her being a trouble making soul, I write this to save any misunderstanding here. But she is a troubled soul that has a lot going on inside, I have been in that position. As it appears now through Nick's time chatting with her, she is a troubled soul, she needs our prayers for sure, but what is worse for a troubled soul is when they have a small amount of searching in their heart and the devil jumps in and stirs thinks up for her. But this is what the devil does, it allows us to see what issues are affecting her, causing her to lash out, I certainly did a lot of that in the past, but most importantly it gives us keys to her issues and these keys are given to us to allow us to pray affectively for her.

I will just step back to the first comments, then cut out of this as I do not think it right to discuss these matters in the forum itself.

Sometimes a person is given the words of scripture in a gentle way, sometimes it a more to the point way, there is no right way because the Lord is guiding us to speak the Word with that person. A manager would not treat to employees the same way, he/she would look at the person and speak the best way for that person to get the job done. I appreciate before it is said this is different, but we are not to question God's ways, one person may come to God though hearing Jesus died for their sins, another person may come to Him because they want to go to heaven, another person may come to Him because they heard they are spiritually dead, they need Jesus.

God knows our hearts, God knows our prayers, but note we are the saved ones submitting to Him. God also knows the other persons heart, and no matter whether we meet that person in real life or on a forum we cannot know for sure what is going on inside their heart. People come to Christ in many different ways, but God calls us we do not call Him.

What may have seen a little hard for one persons ways of witnessing, could also be what kick starts to conversation, what breaks the shell for that person to open up and share how they feel, what is going on inside. Yes they will throw all kinds of statements to a believer, we should be used to this, we know scripture tells us so. But everything they throw is not necessarily what is happening, we shield what is going on inside, we hide past experience, I for one harboured them for forty years, when a none believer throws disbelief at us, I just say, remember brother-paul you were once that way.

We pray for our dear sister, for her salvation, but we pray also for peace in her heart, for healing in her heart, right now she may not feel she wants these things, but one day when she does accept Jesus as her Saviour she will look back and say, I remember all those people telling me these things. Many of us have been there in the past.

The lady has a searching heart, she is not yet a believer, but God loves a searching heart.

To God be the Glory, Jesus is Lord, let us lift BubbleFlower in prayer together, let us pray as the Spirit guides us, in Jesus Name, in His Love. Amen

Blessings

 

[saginon]

I never assumed she was saved, I can only assume she 's a believer (in God) seeking more of God. I think it's a mistake to witness to someone and presume whether they're saved or not. If you want to turn someone off go about asking, "are you born again" or "are you saved?" etc. Brother Paul went about it 100% the wrong way!

Even in her intro, Brother Paul went off on things about Christianity and religion that just doesn't sit well with people who are searching and likely know very little about Christianity. Now I'm going to show you AGAIN the 100% wrong way to witness to someone who is SEEKING and SEARCHING...

Brother Paul...

"With religions man attempts to come to God, religions include, rules, regulations and rituals, but they all have the same common error, rewards for doing good to get to Heaven, to get to God!"

"You say you are not a believer, you have no religion. Take the latter first, religion is no good to anyone, allow me please to share the difference,"

"Christianity is the other way round, God sent His one and only Son to die for our sins, so that through Him we can be saved and go to Heaven, we cannot get to heaven by doing good to get rewards, we cannot earn our way into Heaven. Jesus paid the price we should pay, God came to man, so that we can come to God, we cannot get to heaven any other way except by coming to the Cross, coming to the feet of Jesus, repenting from the heart and being born again, becoming a New Creation."

Granted, Other than what he said about RELIGION, everything BP said is true, but that's what I call coming on too strong! The amount of information in BP's message is one that needs to be slowly absorbed by people who are new to the faith. It's unwise to right away cram that kind of thinking into their heads all at once. They can't process it like you and I because they're NEW to the faith and likely know little to nothing about it. Look at her response...

I am surprised to hear a Christian say religion is no good for anyone. Are you sure of this?!
Christianity is indeed a religion. It surely has a lot of rules, rituals, and doctrines. Baptism is one I know a lot about. That is a rule/ritual performed to make you part of the religion/faith.

Can you see that she's surprised at how BP thinks and questions if he's right! I say BP is wrong about RELIGION!

Now I've even argued with people on this forum that Christianity most certainly is a religion! The NT says it is! It's clasified as a world religion! It's useless going off onto that kind of thing with a seeker! Everybody has gone off in the wrong direction trying to witness to this girl! At every intersection she has been turned OFF into the wrong direction! You've got to realize, you are dealing with someone who knows little to nothing about Christianity and people here are inundating her with all sorts of unnecessary information that TURNED HER OFF! And then in his next post BP went off on her AGAIN about this "religion" stuff!

And then - Sued D says this...
While He was here on earth -- He was showing 'us' His Father in heaven. He died on the cross to provide salvation for everyone. Salvation from hell -- God's Word tells us that there is an after-life. Our 'death' is passing from This life into Eternal life. And that will be either heaven or hell for all of eternity.

When someone is considering Christianity, telling people they have two options - heaven or hell - is the very wrong way to attract people to the faith esp. when Christians can't even agree on heaven and hell!

I suppose where are going to have to agree to disagree on this. Bottom line in my book is the average Christian has zero witnessing skills.

 

[Christ4Ever]

I never assumed she was saved, I can only assume she 's a believer (in God) seeking more of God. I think it's a mistake to witness to someone and presume whether they're saved or not. If you want to turn someone off go about asking, "are you born again" or "are you saved?" etc. Brother Paul went about it 100% the wrong way!

Even in her intro, Brother Paul went off on things about Christianity and religion that just doesn't sit well with people who are searching and likely know very little about Christianity. Now I'm going to show you AGAIN the 100% wrong way to witness to someone who is SEEKING and SEARCHING...

Brother Paul...

"With religions man attempts to come to God, religions include, rules, regulations and rituals, but they all have the same common error, rewards for doing good to get to Heaven, to get to God!"

"You say you are not a believer, you have no religion. Take the latter first, religion is no good to anyone, allow me please to share the difference,"

"Christianity is the other way round, God sent His one and only Son to die for our sins, so that through Him we can be saved and go to Heaven, we cannot get to heaven by doing good to get rewards, we cannot earn our way into Heaven. Jesus paid the price we should pay, God came to man, so that we can come to God, we cannot get to heaven any other way except by coming to the Cross, coming to the feet of Jesus, repenting from the heart and being born again, becoming a New Creation."

Granted, Other than what he said about RELIGION, everything BP said is true, but that's what I call coming on too strong! The amount of information in BP's message is one that needs to be slowly absorbed by people who are new to the faith. It's unwise to right away cram that kind of thinking into their heads all at once. They can't process it like you and I because they're NEW to the faith and likely know little to nothing about it. Look at her response...

I am surprised to hear a Christian say religion is no good for anyone. Are you sure of this?!
Christianity is indeed a religion. It surely has a lot of rules, rituals, and doctrines. Baptism is one I know a lot about. That is a rule/ritual performed to make you part of the religion/faith.

Can you see that she's surprised at how BP thinks and questions if he's right! I say BP is wrong about RELIGION!

Now I've even argued with people on this forum that Christianity most certainly is a religion! The NT says it is! It's clasified as a world religion! It's useless going off onto that kind of thing with a seeker! Everybody has gone off in the wrong direction trying to witness to this girl! At every intersection she has been turned OFF into the wrong direction! You've got to realize, you are dealing with someone who knows little to nothing about Christianity and people here are inundating her with all sorts of unnecessary information that TURNED HER OFF! And then in his next post BP went off on her AGAIN about this "religion" stuff!

And then - Sued D says this...
While He was here on earth -- He was showing 'us' His Father in heaven. He died on the cross to provide salvation for everyone. Salvation from hell -- God's Word tells us that there is an after-life. Our 'death' is passing from This life into Eternal life. And that will be either heaven or hell for all of eternity.

When someone is considering Christianity, telling people they have two options - heaven or hell - is the very wrong way to attract people to the faith esp. when Christians can't even agree on heaven and hell!

I suppose where are going to have to agree to disagree on this. Bottom line in my book is the average Christian has zero witnessing skills.

Hello Saginon,
When I say believer, I mean saved, and vice versa. You may not equate it that way, but now you know that I do when I use it.

No need to go over what I have covered already concerning witnessing, and in particular this Member, unsaved, non-believing member. I continue my conversation with her in the same light I started. To help her.

What you need to do is stop disparaging those who are providing their own witness, even if they know nothing of it, or is not done the way you approve of. They, nor should you, be governed exclusively by methodologies for witnessing created by man, but rather allow the Holy Spirit to move you with whoever it is you're talking with. Each is unique, but all have one thing in common. The need to have Jesus.

As far as using what the Holy Spirit moves one to use, even if it includes Hell or Heaven, which is considered the Fire and Brimstone type of preaching/witnessing is up to the witness. You can disapprove of it, but it doesn't mean it is wrong. The bottom line is that we're not about attracting people, but rather opening them to receiving/hearing the Gospel and disciplining them. The person may be convicted in many different ways, and even the F&B method can and has worked though I myself don't use it.

If you look at the bio's of the believers (Saved) here on TJ of the Brothers & Sisters in Christ Jesus you will find a certain uniqueness in how they came to where they are in Christ! There is no cookie cutter method for witnessing brother. Alleluia for that!

You really need to get rid of that mindset that I see from your last comment. I won't disagree that most all Christians have difficulty witnessing, but not because they have zero skills, but rather are unwilling to step out in faith and when they do. Fail to do it with the Love of Christ. I've already told you about the crying witness. Utilizing your own observations and experiences are fine, but don't discount how the Holy Spirit moves in another who has stepped out in faith to do so. Even if it doesn't work, or appear to you that it will.

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Christ4Ever -- I've been taking pains to Not respond directly back to him. Biting my tongue a couple of times to refrain -- especially on the thread that I started.

People are so unique / interesting. :smile:

Hello Sister Sue,

Just show im the love of the Lord!
And some praying helps too!

Yes Sister, people are so very unique/interesting!!! LOL

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
<><

 

[Wnl]

Hi All,
Going back to the question, What happens to the people who have never
heard the gospel.

Have you ever considered the law of Moses where Hell was not evident
to no one, or in the law.

Also have you considered all the Godly people in the Old Testament that
had never heard of Jesus, although He was foretold and all the rest of the
People that lived in that time.

So how did people of that time, know the way the truth and the life,
are they condemned to a Hell that they New nothing,of,,,I think not.

With Love, Wnl

 

[Sue D.]

The New Testament tells us that 'they' had the prophets to tell them / warn them about repenting. Remember - Jonah and Ninnevah. And Nathan was a prophet who approached King David. Just two of many.

Book of Hebrews, chapter one verse 1

Well -- we Are supposed to learn from reading God's Word And share it with all who will listen. The person who hears and rejects is condemning him / her self to eternity in hell.

And Romans 1:20.

God has always made sure that people had knowledge of Himself. It's what 'we' do With that knowledge. Same as Now days. It's what the individual Does with the knowledge that he's given. Even Now, 'we' have all of God's Word and accept or reject Him and there are places Now that only hear because someone feels led to share Gospel unto salvation with them.

The Only difference is that the Old Testament 'trusters' had to wait for Calvary to take place. They were in Abraham's bosom until Jesus Christ Did die For them and then when He Did -- he went there Himself to take them back up with Himself.

'We' look back At Calvary and either accept or reject that which Jesus Christ already Did.

And those who were living at the time that the cross was taking place Still either accepted or rejected Him / His shed blood.

 

[Beresheet]

Wnl, God has already came up with the solution to your question, what happens to all the people that never got to hear the gospel. The solution was written into God’s plan of salvation from the foundation. It’s called the Millennium. You could call it a catch all for everyone and anyone that has not for any reason, heard the gospel or heard the gospel but rejected it.

In today’s world there are so many denominations out there and they all got their interpretations of God’s word. There has been a group of people from the beginning among us called the, Kenites, they are deceivers, in that they muddy the waters of truth to the point it’s hard to filter the truth out of all the deception and lies. It takes a lot of study and research to weed through all of it trying to come up with the real truth.

Here is where the millennium comes in. It’s begins just shortly after the true Christ returns to earth. This millennium age is a 1000 year period of time, also called the LORD DAY. There will only be God’s truth taught during the millennium. There will not be this religion and that religion, only Gods true word will be taught by qualified teachers during this time. There will a testing at the end of the 1000 years and at that time God can past fair judgment on all. For some it will be rewards and some it will be the lake of fire. Those that go into the lake of fire, not even their remembrance will survive.

 

[Sue D.]

@Beresheet -- That is Not what God's Word says about the Milennial 1,000 yr reign of Christ here on earth. You are putting into Scripture that which is NOT there.

There IS the Gospel unto salvation which did take place At the cross of calvary.

Jesus Christ WILL come back for the Church / His Bride / in the air and 'they' will reign with Him during those 1,000 years of His reign. Those who were Not raptured up Will be down here for the 7 yr period of tribulation / the Great Tribulation. Many will accept Christ as their Messiah -- the Jews who had previously rejected Him. Revelation says that there will be multitudes from all over this world. Those who Do survive all of that will be here on earth during that 1,000 yrs and satan will be bound in the great Abyss so he won't be able to influence Anyone. And during those 1,000 years there will be lots of people born and repopulate the world. People saved during those years? We aren't told.

So -- to be on the Safe side -- it's best to accept Jesus Christ as personal Savior Now rather than 'tomorrow' -- cause no one is assured Of 'tomorrow'. Just this past Thursday afternoon, a few days ago, one of my nieces was involved in an accident -- her vehicle was t-boned / broad-sided on the driver's side -- she's surviving so far with LOTS of broken bones. Not her fault -- but -- her life Could have ended then and there. Very easily.

No one knows What will be taught. People can imagine anything they Want to to have happen. We Do know that we will experience God's righteous justice for all. God's Word says Nothing about some final testing for everyone at the end of that time.

Once satan is loosed again, there Will be those who willingly Do follow him. There Will be final wars -- Gog and Magog is mentioned. And just as it seems like satan and his followers Are winning -- God Does kill them. Then Does come the final judgement time.