What is Salvation?

[Richard Aberdeen]

Paul opens and closes every letter attributed to him with "grace" to you followed often by "mercy" and/or "peace", always listing grace first. He also says that Jesus gives us more grace and, we grow from grace to grace (more free, bigger and better understanding).

Unlike many Christians teach, why would Paul say this if salvation isn't an ongoing process, as if we no longer need any more grace or understanding ? ? ? Consider how crazy it would be for someone to believe they could read and understand the entire Encyclopedia Britannica in one day. And that is nothing, compared to what Jesus knows and, we have yet to learn.

Salvation is not just about learning, but also about being changed by God from the inside out and as a result, having more love and becoming more free. It may be fair to define "salvation" as everything God wants to do for us, in us and through us. If we don't want Jesus to save us from our sins, we will never be remotely free, for sin makes us less free, not more free. And, it is a hard and difficult row to hoe to try to care without God's help, "for God is love".

"Moreover, the Lord is the spirit; where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. We all moreover, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the spirit" II Corinthians 3:17-18(corrected to the Greek).

Verse 18 cannot rationally be interpreted some other way, other than an ongoing process. Over time, the better we will know and understand what is true, the more free we will become and, the more love we will have for both ourselves and other people; "for God is love" 1 John 4:7-8.

God's salvation, found only in Jesus, is a lifetime ongoing process, as indicated by Paul several times, who after many years, did not view himself as having attained. In I Corinthians 1:18 Paul says, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." The Greek definitely means "being saved".

And as Paul writes in Philippians 3:12-14: "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Messiah Jesus has also laid hold of me. Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Messiah Jesus."

Again, Paul writes elsewhere in I Corinthians 8:2: "And if anyone thinks that they know anything, they know nothing yet as they ought to know". Those who teach that salvation is not an ongoing daily process and, who say if we have asked Jesus to forgive us, we no longer need him to forgive us, are in direct contradiction to the New Testament.

According to John 1:8-9, written to people who are already believers in Jesus: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and, to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Note that John says if "we" confess "our" sins, including himself personally.

Jesus saving us from our sins is quite clearly a daily, ongoing process. Otherwise, the above quotations from Paul and John quite literally, don't make any sense. The entire idea of God's free salvation is to believe in and know Jesus better and in doing so, become more and more free and have more "love, one for another". As noted earlier, Jesus says if we listen to him, we "will know the truth and the truth will make us free" and if he makes us free, we will be "free, indeed".

Jesus clearly implies an ongoing learning process when he says "you will know the truth and the truth will make you free", which agrees with Paul and I John. Who for example, has shown up for the first day of elementary school and, learned everything they need to know about God and life on the first day?

If the idea is to learn more of what is true so we can be more free, how could anyone claim that salvation isn't an ongoing process? And, if we don't want Jesus to continue to forgive us once we have asked him, who is going to "cleanse us from all sin", like John says in I John 1:7?

Conservative Christianity very wrongly teaches that once we are saved, we no longer need to be saved and, once we are forgiven, we no longer need to be forgiven. Hopefully the above few paragraphs puts this twisted teaching down in the Pit permanently where it belongs. Apparently, the truth is, once we have asked Jesus to forgive us, we are saved from God's wrath and, we have eternal life from that point forward.

But we have much to improve on, experience, understand, go through and grow over time and thus, salvation is also an ongoing lifetime process. Who among us can say "I have achieved", as if we need no more improvement and have nothing left to understand or accomplish?

Link Deleted

 

[Twistie]

Find who you are in Him that there is real salvation..when one knows who they are where they branch of the Tree..

I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

How can one truly abide in Him unless they find who they are in Him..

Hope alls well..

꒰⁠⑅⁠ᵕ⁠༚⁠ᵕ⁠꒱⁠˖⁠♡

 

[Twistie]

"I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."

They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief."

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber."

Many run from site to site to temple to Temple to man to man but only One ya can enter through and truly be fed

(⁠｡⁠♡⁠‿⁠♡⁠｡⁠)

 

[bdavidc]

If the idea is to learn more of what is true so we can be more free, how could anyone claim that salvation isn't an ongoing process? And, if we don't want Jesus to continue to forgive us once we have asked him, who is going to "cleanse us from all sin", like John says in I John 1:7?

Your use of 1 John 1:7 does not prove that justification is an ongoing process. John says, “the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” You are taking the believer’s ongoing cleansing and turning it into repeated justification. The text does not say that.

Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24. That is not an unfinished process. The believer has already passed from death unto life.

You are also confusing learning more truth with becoming progressively saved from God’s condemnation. Scripture never says a man is gradually justified as he gains knowledge. Romans 5:1 says, “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Romans 8:1 says, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.”

Your use of 2 Corinthians 3:18 does not support your claim either. That passage speaks of being “changed into the same image from glory to glory.” It does not say we are justified from glory to glory. You are forcing justification into a passage that is speaking about transformation.

Philippians 3:12-14 does not teach unfinished justification either. In the same chapter Paul says he desired to “be found in him, not having mine own righteousness... but that which is through the faith of Christ” ~Philippians 3:9. Paul’s pressing forward does not mean he was still waiting to be justified.

You do the same thing with 1 Corinthians 1:18 and the words “being saved.” You take one present-tense expression and use it to erase passages that plainly say believers are already justified, already possess eternal life, and are already free from condemnation. Scripture does not contradict itself. Your interpretation does.

Hebrews 10:14 destroys the idea that Christ leaves the believer in some unfinished state of justification: “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” One offering. Perfected forever.

And 1 John 1:9 does not teach that Christians repeatedly lose and regain salvation. John says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.” He does not say each confession causes us to be justified all over again. In the very next chapter John says, “if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” ~1 John 2:1.

Your statement that Christians teach that once forgiven we “no longer need to be forgiven” is a straw man. The real issue is that you are confusing a believer’s ongoing fellowship, confession, cleansing, and growth with his justification before God.

That confusion is serious because it muddies the gospel. Scripture says we are “justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” ~Romans 3:24. It does not say God justifies us little by little as we learn more, improve more, or become more spiritually mature.

You called the biblical teaching of a settled justification “twisted teaching.” Scripture says otherwise. The believer has been justified, has everlasting life, has passed from death unto life, and is under no condemnation.

Your interpretation is the part that needs to be corrected, not the gospel.

One more thing. Simply saying that someone “asked Jesus to forgive them” does not automatically mean they were truly born again. Jesus warned that there would be people who profess Him but were never truly His: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven” ~Matthew 7:21. Scripture speaks of “repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ” ~Acts 20:21, and Jesus said, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” ~John 3:3.

That distinction matters. A false convert does not merely need more spiritual growth. He needs to be truly saved. A genuine born-again believer has already passed from death unto life and now needs to grow in holiness and obedience. Mixing those two together only creates more confusion about what salvation actually is.

 

[Richard Aberdeen]

Your use of 1 John 1:7 does not prove that justification is an ongoing process. John says, “the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” You are taking the believer’s ongoing cleansing and turning it into repeated justification. The text does not say that.

Jesus said the believer “hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life” ~John 5:24. That is not an unfinished process. The believer has already passed from death unto life.

You are also confusing learning more truth with becoming progressively saved from God’s condemnation. Scripture never says a man is gradually justified as he gains knowledge. Romans 5:1 says, “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.” Romans 8:1 says, “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.”

Your use of 2 Corinthians 3:18 does not support your claim either. That passage speaks of being “changed into the same image from glory to glory.” It does not say we are justified from glory to glory. You are forcing justification into a passage that is speaking about transformation.

Philippians 3:12-14 does not teach unfinished justification either. In the same chapter Paul says he desired to “be found in him, not having mine own righteousness... but that which is through the faith of Christ” ~Philippians 3:9. Paul’s pressing forward does not mean he was still waiting to be justified.

You do the same thing with 1 Corinthians 1:18 and the words “being saved.” You take one present-tense expression and use it to erase passages that plainly say believers are already justified, already possess eternal life, and are already free from condemnation. Scripture does not contradict itself. Your interpretation does.

Hebrews 10:14 destroys the idea that Christ leaves the believer in some unfinished state of justification: “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” One offering. Perfected forever.

And 1 John 1:9 does not teach that Christians repeatedly lose and regain salvation. John says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.” He does not say each confession causes us to be justified all over again. In the very next chapter John says, “if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” ~1 John 2:1.

Your statement that Christians teach that once forgiven we “no longer need to be forgiven” is a straw man. The real issue is that you are confusing a believer’s ongoing fellowship, confession, cleansing, and growth with his justification before God.

That confusion is serious because it muddies the gospel. Scripture says we are “justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” ~Romans 3:24. It does not say God justifies us little by little as we learn more, improve more, or become more spiritually mature.

You called the biblical teaching of a settled justification “twisted teaching.” Scripture says otherwise. The believer has been justified, has everlasting life, has passed from death unto life, and is under no condemnation.

Your interpretation is the part that needs to be corrected, not the gospel.

One more thing. Simply saying that someone “asked Jesus to forgive them” does not automatically mean they were truly born again. Jesus warned that there would be people who profess Him but were never truly His: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven” ~Matthew 7:21. Scripture speaks of “repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ” ~Acts 20:21, and Jesus said, “Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God” ~John 3:3.

That distinction matters. A false convert does not merely need more spiritual growth. He needs to be truly saved. A genuine born-again believer has already passed from death unto life and now needs to grow in holiness and obedience. Mixing those two together only creates more confusion about what salvation actually is.

The Bible clearly teaches that salvation is an ongoing process. Among other things, salvation is learning more what is true, because only the truth will make us free. Paul says regarding this ongoing process, "if anyone thinks they know anything, they know nothing yet as they ought to know." And Paul says, "not that I have already attained, but I press on. . ." And Paul also says as we move, "from grace to grace", which is obviously an ongoing process. If something isn't ongoing, one can't "move" from grace to grace.

But this verse leaves no doubt that salvation is an ongoing process: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." -- I Corinthians 1:18

Regardless of what your translation says, the Greek means to those of us who are "being" saved. You can check the Greek out for yourself here: 1 Corinthians 1:18 Greek Text Analysis

σωζόμενος – present participle form, literally “being saved”

Salvation is everything God wants to do for each person. To not want God to continue to save us from our sins is not only to not want to be free, it is also to not want God to help us, bless us or do anything for us.

 

[KingJ]

Paul opens and closes every letter attributed to him with "grace" to you followed often by "mercy" and/or "peace", always listing grace first. He also says that Jesus gives us more grace and, we grow from grace to grace (more free, bigger and better understanding).

Unlike many Christians teach, why would Paul say this if salvation isn't an ongoing process, as if we no longer need any more grace or understanding ? ? ? Consider how crazy it would be for someone to believe they could read and understand the entire Encyclopedia Britannica in one day. And that is nothing, compared to what Jesus knows and, we have yet to learn.

Salvation is not just about learning, but also about being changed by God from the inside out and as a result, having more love and becoming more free. It may be fair to define "salvation" as everything God wants to do for us, in us and through us. If we don't want Jesus to save us from our sins, we will never be remotely free, for sin makes us less free, not more free. And, it is a hard and difficult row to hoe to try to care without God's help, "for God is love".

"Moreover, the Lord is the spirit; where the spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. We all moreover, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord the spirit" II Corinthians 3:17-18(corrected to the Greek).

Verse 18 cannot rationally be interpreted some other way, other than an ongoing process. Over time, the better we will know and understand what is true, the more free we will become and, the more love we will have for both ourselves and other people; "for God is love" 1 John 4:7-8.

God's salvation, found only in Jesus, is a lifetime ongoing process, as indicated by Paul several times, who after many years, did not view himself as having attained. In I Corinthians 1:18 Paul says, "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." The Greek definitely means "being saved".

And as Paul writes in Philippians 3:12-14: "Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Messiah Jesus has also laid hold of me. Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Messiah Jesus."

Again, Paul writes elsewhere in I Corinthians 8:2: "And if anyone thinks that they know anything, they know nothing yet as they ought to know". Those who teach that salvation is not an ongoing daily process and, who say if we have asked Jesus to forgive us, we no longer need him to forgive us, are in direct contradiction to the New Testament.

According to John 1:8-9, written to people who are already believers in Jesus: "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and, to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Note that John says if "we" confess "our" sins, including himself personally.

Jesus saving us from our sins is quite clearly a daily, ongoing process. Otherwise, the above quotations from Paul and John quite literally, don't make any sense. The entire idea of God's free salvation is to believe in and know Jesus better and in doing so, become more and more free and have more "love, one for another". As noted earlier, Jesus says if we listen to him, we "will know the truth and the truth will make us free" and if he makes us free, we will be "free, indeed".

Jesus clearly implies an ongoing learning process when he says "you will know the truth and the truth will make you free", which agrees with Paul and I John. Who for example, has shown up for the first day of elementary school and, learned everything they need to know about God and life on the first day?

If the idea is to learn more of what is true so we can be more free, how could anyone claim that salvation isn't an ongoing process? And, if we don't want Jesus to continue to forgive us once we have asked him, who is going to "cleanse us from all sin", like John says in I John 1:7?

Conservative Christianity very wrongly teaches that once we are saved, we no longer need to be saved and, once we are forgiven, we no longer need to be forgiven. Hopefully the above few paragraphs puts this twisted teaching down in the Pit permanently where it belongs. Apparently, the truth is, once we have asked Jesus to forgive us, we are saved from God's wrath and, we have eternal life from that point forward.

But we have much to improve on, experience, understand, go through and grow over time and thus, salvation is also an ongoing lifetime process. Who among us can say "I have achieved", as if we need no more improvement and have nothing left to understand or accomplish?

Link Deleted

The main issue with your argument is that you are conflating ongoing sanctification with justification and calling both “salvation”. Here is where I believe each of your arguments fall short:

• Grace continuing does not mean salvation is continually being earned. Christians absolutely grow in grace and understanding. But growing in grace is sanctification. It does not mean that our justification has to be continually renewed or maintained by our works.

• 2 Corinthians 3:17–18 does not teach that salvation can be lost. Paul is describing an ongoing transformation into the image of Christ. That is sanctification. Being progressively transformed does not mean our position in Christ is progressively uncertain.

• 1 Corinthians 1:18 does not prove that Christians can lose their salvation. “Being saved” describes the continuing work of God in believers. Paul contrasts those who are being saved with those who are perishing. Nothing in the passage says that those who have been justified can later become unjustified.

• Philippians 3:12–14 does not mean Paul was unsure of his salvation. Paul says he had not yet attained the fullness of what God would ultimately accomplish. He was pressing toward the prize and the future resurrection. That is about Christian growth and future glorification, not earning or maintaining justification.

• 1 Corinthians 8:2 concerns knowledge and maturity. Paul is warning against pride in knowledge. It does not teach that salvation itself is an ongoing process dependent upon how much we learn or understand.

• 1 John 1:8–9 does not teach that believers must repeatedly become saved. John is speaking to believers who still sin. Confession restores fellowship and keeps us walking in the light. A Christian needing daily forgiveness does not mean that his justification is cancelled every time he sins.

• There is a difference between forgiveness and justification. A Christian can need daily forgiveness and cleansing without needing to be justified again. Jesus taught His already-believing disciples to pray for forgiveness in Matthew 6:12. That does not mean they were repeatedly losing their salvation.

• Jesus explicitly said that His sheep have eternal life and will never perish. John 10:28 says: “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish.” If eternal life can be lost because a believer fails to continue properly then we have to ask what Jesus meant by “eternal” and “never perish.”

• The problem is not what you mean by salvation but what Scripture says about justification. If you are using “salvation” to mean our justification before God then the question is whether justification is an ongoing process that must continually be maintained. Scripture presents justification as something God has already accomplished for the believer through faith in Christ. Our sanctification continues throughout our lives but that does not mean our justification is continually being renewed or can be lost every time we fail to grow or sin

• The real issue is whether sanctification is the basis of retaining eternal life. Christians absolutely should grow in holiness. We should become more loving and more like Christ. But our growth is the fruit of salvation rather than the basis upon which Christ keeps us saved.

So I agree with you that the Christian life is an ongoing process. What I disagree with is your conclusion that therefore our salvation from God's wrath is an ongoing process.

You have demonstrated that sanctification is ongoing. You have not demonstrated that justification is ongoing or that a truly justified believer can become unjustified.

 

[KingJ]

The Bible clearly teaches that salvation is an ongoing process. Among other things, salvation is learning more what is true, because only the truth will make us free. Paul says regarding this ongoing process, "if anyone thinks they know anything, they know nothing yet as they ought to know." And Paul says, "not that I have already attained, but I press on. . ." And Paul also says as we move, "from grace to grace", which is obviously an ongoing process. If something isn't ongoing, one can't "move" from grace to grace.

But this verse leaves no doubt that salvation is an ongoing process: "For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." -- I Corinthians 1:18

Regardless of what your translation says, the Greek means to those of us who are "being" saved. You can check the Greek out for yourself here: 1 Corinthians 1:18 Greek Text Analysis

σωζόμενος – present participle form, literally “being saved”

Salvation is everything God wants to do for each person. To not want God to continue to save us from our sins is not only to not want to be free, it is also to not want God to help us, bless us or do anything for us.

Richard, the phrase “being saved” in 1 Corinthians 1:18 does not by itself mean “being progressively justified.”

The word “saved” can describe different aspects of God’s saving work. Scripture speaks of our justification as a completed act, our sanctification as an ongoing work, and our glorification as future.

So when Paul says “those who are being saved” he is describing people who are presently experiencing the saving power of the Gospel. The grammar tells us that the saving work is ongoing, but the grammar does not tell us that justification itself is ongoing.

That distinction matters. If “being saved” automatically meant “being progressively justified” then you would still need to explain why Scripture says:

Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God.

Paul does not say we are “being progressively justified.” He says we have been justified and therefore have peace with God.

 

[KingJ]

10 Serious Problems With Non-OSAS Teaching:

1. Makes justification ongoing — Romans 5:1 — Justification is a completed declaration by faith.
2. Undermines Christ’s finished work — Hebrews 10:14 — One offering perfected believers forever.
3. Confuses justification with sanctification — 2 Corinthians 3:18 — Transformation is ongoing but justification is not.
4. Makes eternal life temporary — John 10:28 — Christ says His sheep shall never perish.
5. Undermines “no condemnation” — Romans 8:1 — The believer in Christ is presently free from condemnation.
6. Weakens assurance — Romans 8:38-39 — Nothing can separate us from God’s love in Christ.
7. Breaks the justification-to-glorification chain — Romans 8:30 — Those God justified He also glorified.
8. Makes perseverance the basis rather than the fruit of salvation — Philippians 1:6 — God completes the work He began.
9. Turns warnings into possible loss of salvation — John 10:27-29 — Christ promises to preserve His sheep.
10. Shifts confidence from Christ to our performance — Philippians 3:9 — Our righteousness is through faith in Christ not our own righteousness.

Conclusion

Consider the criminal beside Jesus. He repented and was promised eternal paradise without years of service or perseverance being required to keep his salvation.

Now imagine another person who repents and receives the same salvation but is then required to serve Christ for 50 years while living under the possibility that in year 51 he could lose his salvation and eternal bliss because he failed to persevere sufficiently.

Would that be just? Yes or No answer please.

--------------------

Dear AI, please rate how unjust this would be and what word you would use to describe such a God.

I would rate that 10/10 unjust. The word I would use is “cruel.”

But Scripture does not present God that way. The believer's security rests on Christ's finished work and God's promise rather than on successfully maintaining our salvation through lifelong performance.