What is the best analogy to explain the Trinity?
- Thread starter MedicBravo
- Start date
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
Actually, I went back and looked at both texts. They're identical. So, the difference in the passages is simply based on what the translators believe.
This is verse 6 in the Byzantine text
6 ὃς ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ ὑπάρχων, οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἶσα θεῷ
The New Testament in the Original Greek: Byzantine Textform 2005, with Morphology. (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2006), Php 2:6.
This is verse 6 in the Alexandrian text.
6 ὃς ἐν μορφῇ θεοῦ ὑπάρχων οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο τὸ εἶναι ἴσα θεῷ,
Michael W. Holmes, The Greek New Testament: SBL Edition (Lexham Press; Society of Biblical Literature, 2011–2013), Php 2:5–6.
lentz
Active
- Joined
- May 7, 2023
- Messages
- 1,607
Apologies accepted
I've given lots of Scripture to support it, but you choose to disregard it.
Why do you suppose that when you were water baptized it was in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit?
This is the Biblical formula for water baptism. Why is the name of the Holy Spirit there?
Why did the apostle John place the Holy Spirit with the Father and Son as the 3 that bear record in heaven?
No matter who says they can explain the relationship of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the bottom line is that they can't.
No one can understand or explain how 3 distinct persons can be one God. It's another realm of understanding.
Why did Christ say that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven after the Pharisees claimed that Christ was performing miracles by the power of Satan? It was the Holy Spirit that was performing these miracles through Christ, as Christ had laid aside His power as God, and was totally dependent on God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.
Denying the Deity of the Holy Spirit is borderline blasphemy if not outright blasphemy that cannot and will not be forgiven.
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
What am I apologizing for?
B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 11,227
The Holy Spirit can be grieved and has feelings.
Eph 4:30; Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
The Holy Spirit is not Jesus.
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
The Holy Spirit isn't a "it". The Holy Spirit is a who.
John 7:39; But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 14:17; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
John 15:26; "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
1Cor 6:19; Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
Eph 4:30; Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
1Jn 3:24 ; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
The Holy Spirit has a name separate from the Son and the Father.
Matt 28:19; "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
The Holy Spirit can appear in a material bodily form, if so desired.
Luke 3:22; and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
All three are manifested separately in that verse. Jesus is in the water. The Holy Spirit descends upon Jesus, and the voice comes from the Father in heaven.
Eph 4:30; Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
The Holy Spirit is not Jesus.
John 16:7; "But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.
The Holy Spirit isn't a "it". The Holy Spirit is a who.
John 7:39; But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
John 14:17; that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
John 14:26; "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
John 15:26; "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
1Cor 6:19; Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own?
Eph 4:30; Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
1Jn 3:24 ; The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
The Holy Spirit has a name separate from the Son and the Father.
Matt 28:19; "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
The Holy Spirit can appear in a material bodily form, if so desired.
Luke 3:22; and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased."
All three are manifested separately in that verse. Jesus is in the water. The Holy Spirit descends upon Jesus, and the voice comes from the Father in heaven.
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
Actually, you've not. You've posted passages into which you've read you theology.
What in this passage says there is one God in three persons?
That's not really relevant to the question, is there one God who consists of three persons.
He didn't. the Johanan Comma is not original.
That's correct. A logical contradiction cannot be explained.
That's correct. A logical contradiction can't be explained.
Because they were rejecting the Father's power. It was the Father who was doing the works.
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (Jn. 14:10 KJV)
So, Jesus tells us that it is the Father doing the works. We also have these words from Jesus.
20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. (Lk. 11:20 KJV)
Luke tells us that Jesus said He did it by the Finger of God.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. (Matt. 12:28 KJV)
Mathew tells us it was by the Spirit of God.
What does all of this tell us? It tells us that the finger of God and the Holy Spirit are both the same. And Jesus tells us this is the Father in Him doing the works. Thus, the Holy Spirit is the Father, not a third person. Is a God's finger a third person? Obviously not. However, if it's done by God's finger then it's done by God. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit "OF" God.
I said, the Holy Spirit is the Father. That's not denying Deity. However, Creating a god that doesn't exist and putting him on equal footing with the Holy One of Israel is kind of dangerous. He says to Israel, you shall have no other Gods before me.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 11,642
Dear Brother,
You keep saying "morph".
I found this article that might give the words to the perspective that I agree with.
Maybe it will present what you have thus far not considered.
Let me know your thoughts.
YBIC
Nick
What is the problem of the One and the Many?
carm.org
The one in the many is a philosophical problem that has existed for about 2500 years. It deals with how unity and diversity coexist in the universe. There are different ways of discussing the problem. 1) Is the ultimate nature of reality one substance or many different substances? 2) What is the relationship between unity (the one) and diversity (the many)? 3) How are individual objects (chairs and trees) and phenomena (redness and tallness) related? 4) How do universal concepts and categories relate to particular objects and phenomena? 5) How do individual objects and phenomena remain distinct while sharing common characteristics?
Let’s take chairs and trees as an example. Are all chairs and trees merely variations of the one ultimate substance? Or, are all chairs and trees actually comprised of different substances like chairness and treeness? So, when we see clouds, water, cats, rocks, fish, and stars, are they all merely different manifestations of the same essence, the ‘single universal stuff’? Or are they actually manifestations of different things like cloudiness, wetness, catness, rockness, fitness, redness, and starkness? This is a perplexing problem for philosophers.
Problem of the One and the Many: One Substance
If the ultimate nature of reality is one thing, then there’s no true distinction between objects and phenomena. They would be variations of the same thing. This implies that our perception and understanding might be flawed since we do not see the same substance but a variety of properties and characteristics of that one substance. The question then arises: What is the principle of unity between objects and phenomena with different characteristics, such as redness, wetness, and treeness?
Furthermore, it isn’t easy to maintain truth statements since truth requires an understanding of distinctions between objects. So, if I say, “The red chair is next to the tall tree,” I am recognizing distinctions between objects (chairs and trees), their characteristics (redness and tallness), and their positional relationship (next to each other). Are all of these manifestations of the one substance? If so, then this confuses the distinction between objects and undermines truth values since there are ultimately no distinctions between objects and phenomena. This leads to incoherence.
Problem of the One and the Many: Many Substances
If plurality is ultimate, where the universe is a collection of different substances like cloudiness, wetness, catness, rockness, fitness, treeness, etc., then this undermines the unity between the objects and phenomena since it strips them of their interconnectedness, their unity.
Furthermore, this would mean that objects and phenomena are all separate ontological categories (Ontology deals with the ultimate nature of something). But if that’s the case, then there’s no coherence between all of these categories or particulars. And if there’s no coherence between them, then that also undermines truth values because statements require an understanding of proper relationships between objects. Remember the statement, “The red chair is next to the tall tree”? The truth statement requires an understanding of objects, characteristics, and relationships. If all these things are unrelated, how do we justify truth?
The Christian Trinity to the rescue
The problem with the one and the many is that it posits the ultimate nature of reality being one thing OR many things. They are set against each other. However, in the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, we do not say that reality is one thing OR many things. Instead, it is one thing AND many things. They are equally ultimate. This is because the Trinity is one Being AND three distinct persons. The Trinity is unity (God’s singular divine essence) and diversity (God’s three distinct persons). This provides a model of understanding reality because it proposes the one and the many are equal and should not be set against each other.
Furthermore, in the Christian Trinitarian perspective, the ultimate nature of reality reflects the ultimate nature of God which is both unity and diversity at the same time. One is not set against the other. In God, unity and diversity (one and many) are equally ultimate. Therefore, creation reflects His unity and diversity being equally ultimate.
Romans 1:20, “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.”
The Father does the work through the Holy Spirit, just as He saves man through the finished work of Christ.
It's clear you have rejected the Deity of the Holy Spirit. That's between you and Him.
B-A-C
Loyal
- Joined
- Dec 18, 2008
- Messages
- 11,227
John 5:37; "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form.
Jesus says this to the Pharisees who were condemning Him for healing on the Sabbath, but..
John 12:28; "Father, glorify Your name." Then a voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."
John 12:29; So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, "An angel has spoken to Him."
It says here the people standing near Jesus heard the voice.
Matt 3:16; After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
Matt 3:17; and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."
It says here that John the Baptist "saw" the dove ( The Holy Spirit )
John 1:18; No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has revealed Him.
But yet people saw Jesus, the begotten God.
John 5:34; "But the testimony which I receive is not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved.
Jesus says this to the Pharisees who were condemning Him for healing on the Sabbath, but..
John 12:28; "Father, glorify Your name." Then a voice came out of heaven: "I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again."
John 12:29; So the crowd of people who stood by and heard it were saying that it had thundered; others were saying, "An angel has spoken to Him."
It says here the people standing near Jesus heard the voice.
Matt 3:16; After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
Matt 3:17; and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased."
It says here that John the Baptist "saw" the dove ( The Holy Spirit )
John 1:18; No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has revealed Him.
But yet people saw Jesus, the begotten God.
John 5:34; "But the testimony which I receive is not from man, but I say these things so that you may be saved.
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
Actually, the Holy Spirit is an it. The translators aren't accurate in translating it because they believe the Spirit is a third person. The word Spirit is in the neuter gender in the Greek text. You can check any Greek grammar and it'll tell you that In Greek a pronoun must match it's noun in gender. That's a grammatical requitement of the language. For instance, suppose a Greek man was named Sophia, his pronoun would she, not he. Even though he is a man, the pronoun associated with Sophia is she because the word Sophia is feminine in gender. That's just the way the language is. Given that rule everywhere the word spirit has a pronoun attached to it that pronoun is required to be the word "it". When the translators translate the pronoun "he" they are inserting their own bias into the text. The only place that it is correct to translate the Holy Spirit as he is when Jesus calls it the comforter. That's becasue the word parakletos translated comforter or helper is in the masculine gender. It's required by the grammar
What is the Holy Spirit's name?
Can the Father make His power appear in bodily form?
The real question here is, how does your understanding of these passages align with the rest of Scripture? Does it fit? How does it fit with Paul's statement? How does it fit with Jesus' statements? Jesus said the Fathe is the only true God. If Jesus said the Father is the only true God, how then is Jesus and the Holy Spirit as a third person also the only true God? These are the real issues. A single verse to two can often be understood many ways, especially without context. The question is how does it fit with all of Scripture.
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
Did you read the passage? He didn't say the Father was in Him doing the works through the Holy Spirit. He said the Father was doing the works. Thus, the Father is the Spirit.
Why dost thou argue so against the Scriptures?
Moses seen God from behind when God turned His back. No man has never seen God in all His glory, man would evaporate in that presence.
It does not mean man has not seen God, but man has not seen God in all His glory.
This is what the theologians say about seeing God.
You can have this argument with Him when you meet Him. I can prove nothing to you, waste of time.
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
Nick,Dear Brother,
You keep saying "morph".
I found this article that might give the words to the perspective that I agree with.
Maybe it will present what you have thus far not considered.
Let me know your thoughts.
YBIC
Nick
What is the problem of the One and the Many?
carm.org
The one in the many is a philosophical problem that has existed for about 2500 years. It deals with how unity and diversity coexist in the universe. There are different ways of discussing the problem. 1) Is the ultimate nature of reality one substance or many different substances? 2) What is the relationship between unity (the one) and diversity (the many)? 3) How are individual objects (chairs and trees) and phenomena (redness and tallness) related? 4) How do universal concepts and categories relate to particular objects and phenomena? 5) How do individual objects and phenomena remain distinct while sharing common characteristics?
Let’s take chairs and trees as an example. Are all chairs and trees merely variations of the one ultimate substance? Or, are all chairs and trees actually comprised of different substances like chairness and treeness? So, when we see clouds, water, cats, rocks, fish, and stars, are they all merely different manifestations of the same essence, the ‘single universal stuff’? Or are they actually manifestations of different things like cloudiness, wetness, catness, rockness, fitness, redness, and starkness? This is a perplexing problem for philosophers.
Problem of the One and the Many: One Substance
If the ultimate nature of reality is one thing, then there’s no true distinction between objects and phenomena. They would be variations of the same thing. This implies that our perception and understanding might be flawed since we do not see the same substance but a variety of properties and characteristics of that one substance. The question then arises: What is the principle of unity between objects and phenomena with different characteristics, such as redness, wetness, and treeness?
Furthermore, it isn’t easy to maintain truth statements since truth requires an understanding of distinctions between objects. So, if I say, “The red chair is next to the tall tree,” I am recognizing distinctions between objects (chairs and trees), their characteristics (redness and tallness), and their positional relationship (next to each other). Are all of these manifestations of the one substance? If so, then this confuses the distinction between objects and undermines truth values since there are ultimately no distinctions between objects and phenomena. This leads to incoherence.
Problem of the One and the Many: Many Substances
If plurality is ultimate, where the universe is a collection of different substances like cloudiness, wetness, catness, rockness, fitness, treeness, etc., then this undermines the unity between the objects and phenomena since it strips them of their interconnectedness, their unity.
Furthermore, this would mean that objects and phenomena are all separate ontological categories (Ontology deals with the ultimate nature of something). But if that’s the case, then there’s no coherence between all of these categories or particulars. And if there’s no coherence between them, then that also undermines truth values because statements require an understanding of proper relationships between objects. Remember the statement, “The red chair is next to the tall tree”? The truth statement requires an understanding of objects, characteristics, and relationships. If all these things are unrelated, how do we justify truth?
The Christian Trinity to the rescue
The problem with the one and the many is that it posits the ultimate nature of reality being one thing OR many things. They are set against each other. However, in the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, we do not say that reality is one thing OR many things. Instead, it is one thing AND many things. They are equally ultimate. This is because the Trinity is one Being AND three distinct persons. The Trinity is unity (God’s singular divine essence) and diversity (God’s three distinct persons). This provides a model of understanding reality because it proposes the one and the many are equal and should not be set against each other.
Furthermore, in the Christian Trinitarian perspective, the ultimate nature of reality reflects the ultimate nature of God which is both unity and diversity at the same time. One is not set against the other. In God, unity and diversity (one and many) are equally ultimate. Therefore, creation reflects His unity and diversity being equally ultimate.
Romans 1:20, “For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.”
This is just the same logical contradiction restated. Remember what Paul sad about man's philosophy. I understand your argument. The three persons are one in essence. That's the argument in the Nicene Creed about the Father and the Son. But that's not what the Christians argue. They call God a He. He is a singular personal pronoun that is used for a single male individual. Thus, they are saying that God is a single individual being. Then they also say that God is three persons. When they call God a He they are talking about a concrete being. Then they say that this being consists of three persons. That's where the logical contradiction comes into place. They're not claiming, as I believe you are, that there are three persons who are all of the same nature or essence that is called God.
The issue I see with what you're saying is that I'm not aware of any place in Scripture where the word "god" is used in a abstract sense as you're suggesting. Essence or nature is abstract. Everything I've seen in Scripture uses the word God in a concrete sense of actual beings that exist. Paul said the gods of the pagans are demons. Demons are actual beings. The word god is used of The ultimate God, the Son of God, inferred of the sprit of God, pagan gods, that are demons, and men. All of these are actual beings. They're not an essence that certain beings belong to.
And, I believe all of this falls apart when the Holy Sprit cannot be established as a third person.
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
No man has seen God at any time. Paul adds that not only has no man seen God, no man can see God.
18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Jn 1:18.
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, ythe King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, adwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be dhonour and power everlasting. Amen.
1 Ti 6:14–16.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 11,642
Semantics! lol
So, you do believe in the Trinity.
Same essence, but in 3 separate persons or should I say beings instead, and so 1 God!
Unless you are saying that only the "essence" is God though found in 3 beings!
Now can I, dare I say your belief is more in line with "Consubstantiation".
If so...Far out! lol
With the Love of Christ Jesus Brother!
Nick
\o/
<><
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
You're argument isn't with me, it's with Scripture. Jesus said the Father was doing the works. Mathew tells us it was through the Spirit and Luke tells us it was through the finger of God. The only way to reconcile those passages is that it is the Father who is the finger and Spirit of God doing the works. How else can you reconcile those passages?
Butch5
Active
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 3,110
I'll lay out what I believe. In the beginning there was the Father alone. Before anything was made, the Father begat a Son. The Son created all that exists at the Father's command. The Father and the Son have been working since the creation in the world. The Holy Wind/Breath/Spirt is not a third person but rather is the Father's manifestation at times in the world. So, I only see two persons, the Father and the Son.
The Father begat the Son so the Son was of the same essence/nature as the Father. The Son emptied Himself of that essence and took on the essence or nature of man.
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2007
- Messages
- 11,642
That is why we will have eternal life! To get to know God!
Here's the another part that I believe goes hand in hand with what I shared before as it pertains to the Trinity, which I hope you will enjoy perusing.
With the Love of Christ Jesus brother!
Nick
\o/
<><
---------------------------
What is the Trinity?
by Matt Slick | Nov 24, 2008 | Doctrine and Theology, Christian Theology
What is the Trinity? The word “trinity” is a term used to denote the Christian doctrine that God exists as a unity of three distinct, simultaneous persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of the persons is distinct from the other in relation (Economic Trinity), yet each is identical in essence (Ontological Trinity). The Trinity is not comprised of parts – as in the three persons being three parts of God. Instead, there is one being: God. We call this Divine Simplicity. God is one thing, one substance, one essence. Therefore, because there is only one God, there is only one will. Yet, from Scripture, we perceive the Trinity as three, simultaneous, and distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
“…the persons are identical in all things except their eternal relations of origin (personal properties): paternity, filiation, spiration. These and these alone distinguish the persons.”1
To expand on the above quote, the Father (as He is called in Scripture) is in a paternal relation to the only begotten Son (as Jesus is called in Scripture, John 1:18; 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds (spiration) from the Father and the Son (John 15:26; Gal. 4:6; Phil. 1:19).2
Each of the three persons is fully divine in nature, but each is not different than the other persons in essence. We find in Scripture (See the Trinity Chart), that each has a will, loves, and says “I” and “You” when speaking. The Father is not the same person as the Son, who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit, and who is not the same person as the Father. Each is divine, yet there are not three gods but one God. There are three individual subsistences or persons. The word “subsistence” means something that has a real existence. The word “person” denotes individuality and self-awareness. Though there is only one God, He reveals Himself to us in three simultaneous and distinct persons.
“…every act [in the Trinity] occurs in accordance with his simple essence. No matter which person we are referring to, they all have the one will in common just as they all have the one essence in common…On the other hand, the one, inseparable essence and will has three modes of subsistence: the Father as unbegotten, the Son as begotten, and the Spirit as spirated…the divine essence has three modes of subsistence, each person a subsistence of the one, simple essence.”3
Included in the doctrine of the Trinity is a strict monotheism which is the teaching that there exists in all the universe a single being known as God who is self-existent and unchangeable (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8). Therefore, we must note that the doctrine of the Trinity is not polytheistic as some of its critics proclaim. Trinitarianism is monotheistic.
The Trinity
God is three persons.
Each person is divine.
There is only one God.
Many theologians admit that the term “person” is not a perfect word to describe the three individual persons found in God. When we normally use the word person, we understand it to mean physical individuals who exist as separate beings from other individuals. But in God, there are not three entities nor three beings. God is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence. God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons.
Each of the three persons is completely divine in nature though each is not the totality of the Godhead.
Each of the three persons is not the other two persons.
Each of the three persons is related to the other two but are distinct from them.
Each of the three persons interdwells the other two (perichoresis) since they are all the one substance.
The word “trinity” is not found in the Bible, but this does not mean that the concept is not taught there. The word “monotheism” is not found in the Bible either, but we use it anyway when describing what the Scriptures teach in Isaiah 43:10; 44:6, 8; 45:5. Likewise, the words “omniscience,” which means “all-knowing,” “omnipotence,” which means “all-powerful,” and “omnipresence,” which means “present everywhere” are not found in the Bible either; but we use these words to describe the attributes of God. So, to say that the Trinity isn’t true because the word isn’t in the Bible is an invalid argument.
Is there subordination in the Trinity?
There is, apparently, a subordination within the Trinity regarding order but not substance or essence. We can see that the Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is third. The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 15:26). The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10). The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26). The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16).
This subordination of order does not mean that each of the members of the Godhead are not equal or divine. For example, we see that the Father sent the Son, but this does not mean that the Son is not equal to the Father in essence and divine nature. The Son is equal to the Father in his divinity but inferior in his humanity. A wife is to be subject to her husband; but this does not negate her humanity, essence, or equality. By further analogy, a king and his servant both share human nature. Yet, the king sends the servant to do his will. Jesus said, “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me,” (John 6:38). Of course, Jesus already is King; but the analogy shows that because someone is sent, it doesn’t mean they are different from the one who sent him.
Critics of the Trinity will see this subordination as proof that the Trinity is false. They reason that if Jesus were truly God, then He would be completely equal to God the Father in all areas and would not, therefore, be subordinate to the Father in any way. But this objection is not logical. The Son is subordinate in position – having been sent, and being made under the Law (Gal. 4:4). If we look at the analogy of the king and the servant, we certainly would not say that the servant was not human because he was sent. Being sent does not negate sameness in essence. Therefore, the fact that the Son is sent does not mean that He is not divine any more than when my wife sends me to get bread, it means that I am not human.
Is the Trinity confusing?
Another important point about the Trinity is that it can be a difficult concept to grasp, but this does not necessitate an argument against its validity. On the contrary, the fact that it is difficult is an argument for its truth. The Bible is the self-revelation of an infinite God. Therefore, we are bound to encounter concepts which are difficult to understand – especially when dealing with an incomprehensible God who exists in all places at all times. So, when we view descriptions and attributes of God manifested in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we discover that a completely comprehensible and understandable explanation of God’s essence and nature is not possible. What we have done, however, is derived from the Scripture the truths that we can grasp and combine them into the doctrine we call The Trinity.
It is the way of the cults to reduce biblical truth to make God comprehensible and understandable by their minds. To this end, they subject God’s word to their own reasoning and end in error. Nevertheless, the following verses are often used to demonstrate that the doctrine of the Trinity is indeed biblical:
Matt. 28:19, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.”
1 Cor. 12:4-6, “Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6 And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.”
2 Cor. 13:14, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.”
Eph. 4:4-7, “There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.”
1 Pet. 1:2, “according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure.”
Jude 20-21, “But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.”
