What to expect in hell

[Rockerduck]

1. The statement was that the only passage in the entirety of scripture that gives details on what exactly one can expect in fire, in the afterlife, is in Luke 16. You are correct that it was Hades and that Hades will be cast into the Lake of fire. But, that is a separate topic. Please try understand that.

2. It is not a parable from Jesus. It is a story. Actual names are mentioned, this is not done in parables.

Every parable has truth, and the story/parable that mentions names are real people and the story is real, therefore, the rich man and Lazarus are real people and most likely everyone knew who Jesus was talking about.

 

[B-A-C]

Every parable has truth, and the story/parable that mentions names are real people and the story is real

True. But also, everytime Jesus told a parable, the bible identifies it as a parable.

Matt 13:18; "Hear then the parable of the sower.
Matt 13:24; Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
Matt 13:31; He presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field;
Matt 13:33; He spoke another parable to them, "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all leavened."
Matt 13:34; All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable.
Matt 13:36; Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."
Matt 15:15; Peter said to Him, "Explain the parable to us."
Matt 21:33; "Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who PLANTED A VINEYARD AND PUT A WALL AROUND IT AND DUG A WINE PRESS IN IT, AND BUILT A TOWER, and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey.
Matt 24:32; "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near;
Mark 4:13; And He *said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How will you understand all the parables?
Mark 4:30; And He said, "How shall we picture the kingdom of God, or by what parable shall we present it?
Mark 4:34; and He did not speak to them without a parable; but He was explaining everything privately to His own disciples.
Mark 7:17; When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable.
Mark 12:12; And they were seeking to seize Him, and yet they feared the people, for they understood that He spoke the parable against them. And so they left Him and went away.
Mark 13:28; "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.
Luke 5:36; And He was also telling them a parable: "No one tears a piece of cloth from a new garment and puts it on an old garment; otherwise he will both tear the new, and the piece from the new will not match the old.
Luke 6:39; And He also spoke a parable to them: "A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit?
Luke 8:4; When a large crowd was coming together, and those from the various cities were journeying to Him, He spoke by way of a parable:
Luke 8:9; His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant.
Luke 8:11; "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.
Luke 12:16; And He told them a parable, saying, "The land of a rich man was very productive.
Luke 12:41; Peter said, "Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?"
Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 14:7; And He began speaking a parable to the invited guests when He noticed how they had been picking out the places of honor at the table, saying to them,
Luke 15:3; So He told them this parable, saying,
Luke 18:1; Now He was telling them a parable to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart,
Luke 18:9; And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:
Luke 19:11; While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.
Luke 20:9; And He began to tell the people this parable: "A man planted a vineyard and rented it out to vine-growers, and went on a journey for a long time.
Luke 20:19; The scribes and the chief priests tried to lay hands on Him that very hour, and they feared the people; for they understood that He spoke this parable against them.
Luke 21:29; Then He told them a parable: "Behold the fig tree and all the trees;
31 verses found, 31 matches

The story of Lazarus and the Rich man is never called a parable in any of the 21 Bible translations I have.
Also in every parable Jesus ever told, He never mentions anyone by name. Yet in the passage about Lazarus and the rich man. "Lazarus" is clearly mentioned by name.

 

[Eddie Deepfield]

1. The statement was that the only passage in the entirety of scripture that gives details on what exactly one can expect in fire, in the afterlife, is in Luke 16. You are correct that it was Hades and that Hades will be cast into the Lake of fire. But, that is a separate topic. Please try understand that.

2. It is not a parable from Jesus. It is a story. Actual names are mentioned, this is not done in parables.

The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus appears in the context and proximity of other parables and is located near the end of a long line of parables found in Luke 15 to 16 - the parable of the lost sheep, the lost coin, the lost son, the unjust steward and finally the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus..

It has to be taken figuratively and not literally.:

1. Where would Abraham have gone when he died? Into his own bosom? How can lots of people fit there?
2. Bodies are still physically in the grave and would have turned to dust. None have ever been taken away physically and directly to hell after death.
3. The rich man could talk directly to Abraham, from hell to heaven, That is not possible. It means heaven and hell are as close as your next door neighbour.
Heaven wouldn’t be enjoyable as you would hear the cries of the lost and perhaps even of your own loved ones.
4. How could a drop of water cool the rich mans tongue while in a fiery furnace in extreme torment? It would have evaporated in a second.

 

[Eddie Deepfield]

Every parable has truth, and the story/parable that mentions names are real people and the story is real, therefore, the rich man and Lazarus are real people and most likely everyone knew who Jesus was talking about.

Christ would seem to be speaking specifically to the Pharisees (Luke 16:14).

Jews had accepted the Greek Pagan belief , that when a person died, they went directly into the fire to purify the soul.

Jesus took this erroneous idea and used it as subject matter for the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, the poor man.

This is not about hell.

It is about the Jews represented by the Rich man. The Rich Man’s brothers were “Moses and the Prophets”. The Jewish nation was to share the literal and spiritual blessings God had given them (riches) with the nations (beggars) of the world, represented by Lazarus.

 

[KingJ]

The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus appears in the context and proximity of other parables and is located near the end of a long line of parables found in Luke 15 to 16 - the parable of the lost sheep, the lost coin, the lost son, the unjust steward and finally the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus..

It has to be taken figuratively and not literally.:

1. Where would Abraham have gone when he died? Into his own bosom? How can lots of people fit there?

Bosom of Abraham - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

2. Bodies are still physically in the grave and would have turned to dust. None have ever been taken away physically and directly to hell after death.

Incorrect. There are many scriptures that talk of people going to and in Hades.

3. The rich man could talk directly to Abraham, from hell to heaven, That is not possible. It means heaven and hell are as close as your next door neighbour.
Heaven wouldn’t be enjoyable as you would hear the cries of the lost and perhaps even of your own loved ones.

According to Luke 16, the divide is within Hades. It is not heaven and the lake of fire.

4. How could a drop of water cool the rich mans tongue while in a fiery furnace in extreme torment? It would have evaporated in a second.

If that were the case he would not have asked for a drop of water. But at least you are thinking on what scripture says. Now you just need to believe that what Jesus says is real and applicable.

 

[Eddie Deepfield]

Incorrect. There are many scriptures that talk of people going to and in Hades.

To Hades.

But this story is used by people to describe what happens in traditional Hell.

Yet no one goes to Hell directly from Hades. They need to be judged first.

So to apply this story as to what happens in Hades and say it also relates to Hell is erroneous.

 

[Eddie Deepfield]

According to Luke 16, the divide is within Hades. It is not heaven and the lake of fire.

Yep. Which means it cannot be used to describe what happens in traditional Hell - the Lake of Fire.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Christ would seem to be speaking specifically to the Pharisees (Luke 16:14).

Jews had accepted the Greek Pagan belief , that when a person died, they went directly into the fire to purify the soul.

Jesus took this erroneous idea and used it as subject matter for the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, the poor man.

This is not about hell.

It is about the Jews represented by the Rich man. The Rich Man’s brothers were “Moses and the Prophets”. The Jewish nation was to share the literal and spiritual blessings God had given them (riches) with the nations (beggars) of the world, represented by Lazarus.

Dear Eddie,
An assumption by you and I'm sure by others. The belief in being purified after death, is something some sects of Christianity & Catholicism believe in but is not something you will find as a belief in most of Protestantism. Mostly it falls in line with Hebrews 9:27 (NKJV) And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,

As you have found, much of what Jesus has said in plain speak and parables, is layered. You could write pages upon pages on this parable, and I'm sure it would cover even more topics than Hell or Moses/Prophets! lol

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[MedicBravo]

1. The statement was that the only passage in the entirety of scripture that gives details on what exactly one can expect in fire, in the afterlife, is in Luke 16. You are correct that it was Hades and that Hades will be cast into the Lake of fire. But, that is a separate topic. Please try understand that.

2. It is not a parable from Jesus. It is a story. Actual names are mentioned, this is not done in parables.

Parables were Jesus' way of explaining complex things, most of which were beyond human understanding on a level they/we could understand.
I'm sure no one of good mind and faith suggests such a thing as Hades or whatever word is relegated to a few verses.

 

[Eddie Deepfield]

If that were the case he would not have asked for a drop of water. But at least you are thinking on what scripture says. Now you just need to believe that what Jesus says is real and applicable.

He didn't really ask for water. Its a parable. Every one knows that a drop of water would have evaporated.

 

[MedicBravo]

True. But also, everytime Jesus told a parable, the bible identifies it as a parable.

Matt 13:18; "Hear then the parable of the sower.
Matt 13:24; Jesus presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field.
Matt 13:31; He presented another parable to them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field;
Matt 13:33; He spoke another parable to them, "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all leavened."
Matt 13:34; All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without a parable.
Matt 13:36; Then He left the crowds and went into the house. And His disciples came to Him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field."
Matt 15:15; Peter said to Him, "Explain the parable to us."
Matt 21:33; "Listen to another parable. There was a landowner who PLANTED A VINEYARD AND PUT A WALL AROUND IT AND DUG A WINE PRESS IN IT, AND BUILT A TOWER, and rented it out to vine-growers and went on a journey.
Matt 24:32; "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near;
Mark 4:13; And He *said to them, "Do you not understand this parable? How will you understand all the parables?
Mark 4:30; And He said, "How shall we picture the kingdom of God, or by what parable shall we present it?
Mark 4:34; and He did not speak to them without a parable; but He was explaining everything privately to His own disciples.
Mark 7:17; When he had left the crowd and entered the house, His disciples questioned Him about the parable.
Mark 12:12; And they were seeking to seize Him, and yet they feared the people, for they understood that He spoke the parable against them. And so they left Him and went away.
Mark 13:28; "Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near.
Luke 5:36; And He was also telling them a parable: "No one tears a piece of cloth from a new garment and puts it on an old garment; otherwise he will both tear the new, and the piece from the new will not match the old.
Luke 6:39; And He also spoke a parable to them: "A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he? Will they not both fall into a pit?
Luke 8:4; When a large crowd was coming together, and those from the various cities were journeying to Him, He spoke by way of a parable:
Luke 8:9; His disciples began questioning Him as to what this parable meant.
Luke 8:11; "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God.
Luke 12:16; And He told them a parable, saying, "The land of a rich man was very productive.
Luke 12:41; Peter said, "Lord, are You addressing this parable to us, or to everyone else as well?"
Luke 13:6; And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.
Luke 14:7; And He began speaking a parable to the invited guests when He noticed how they had been picking out the places of honor at the table, saying to them,
Luke 15:3; So He told them this parable, saying,
Luke 18:1; Now He was telling them a parable to show that at all times they ought to pray and not to lose heart,
Luke 18:9; And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt:
Luke 19:11; While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.
Luke 20:9; And He began to tell the people this parable: "A man planted a vineyard and rented it out to vine-growers, and went on a journey for a long time.
Luke 20:19; The scribes and the chief priests tried to lay hands on Him that very hour, and they feared the people; for they understood that He spoke this parable against them.
Luke 21:29; Then He told them a parable: "Behold the fig tree and all the trees;
31 verses found, 31 matches

The story of Lazarus and the Rich man is never called a parable in any of the 21 Bible translations I have.
Also in every parable Jesus ever told, He never mentions anyone by name. Yet in the passage about Lazarus and the rich man. "Lazarus" is clearly mentioned by name.

I recall someone (pastor/preacher) who says that a parable never mentions real world people, places, or things.
Everything else concerns real people, places, and things.
Parables are meant to convey something to real believers and HIDE it from those who do not want to believe (false believers).

 

[KingJ]

He didn't really ask for water. Its a parable. Every one knows that a drop of water would have evaporated.

As explained by myself and BAC in post #722 it is not a parable. You say this but give no support for your view. It is very clearly not a parable for reasons given to you.

Luke 16:24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

This statement by Jesus is crystal clear and detailed. Are you saying that Jesus was wrong? Jesus is lying to us?

The only passage in the entirety of scripture that speaks to what takes place in fire is in Luke 16.

If any quote anything else, like skin burning, screaming, crying and what not else, they are guilty of adding to scripture what is not there.

Now if you state, ''in fire you desire to ask for a drop of water off of someone's finger'', it is scriptural.

 

[KingJ]

Yep. Which means it cannot be used to describe what happens in traditional Hell - the Lake of Fire.

Disagree 100% with your statement. That is a stretch. It is the only passage in the entirety of scripture that gives some detail of what fire in the hereafter has on a spiritual body.

 

[KingJ]

To Hades.

But this story is used by people to describe what happens in traditional Hell.

The word hell is not found in scripture. We call a place of suffering a 'hell'. The bible mentions Sheol and Lake of fire. Both are a hell of sort.

Yet no one goes to Hell directly from Hades. They need to be judged first.

Correct, the White throne judgement takes place after the millennium.

So to apply this story as to what happens in Hades and say it also relates to Hell is erroneous.

I don't agree.

What we 'do' know is that God's judgement will be just Job 34:12, righteous Psalm 145:17 and according to what we did Rom 2:6. We also know how the spiritual body reacts to fire from Luke 16.

We can use all these four scriptures to draw a picture of what will take place in the Lake of fire. The most obvious answer will be a period in fire according to your crime.

What we MUST NOT do is use Dante's inferno, our dreams and imaginations to draw a picture of eternal hell. Can we agree on that?

If we are not using scripture to draw a picture on hell we are guilty of adding to scripture and need to be terrified of God Rev 22:19.

Rev 22:19 is a passage that explains a certain type of suffering some who go to hell will receive. A very important one on this topic. It mentions how false teachers will receive all the plagues mentioned in scripture The scariest passages in scripture.

 

[Eddie Deepfield]

You say this but give no support for your view. It is very clearly not a parable for reasons given to you.

I did -

The story of the Rich Man and Lazarus appears in the context and proximity of other parables and is located near the end of a long line of parables found in Luke 15 to 16 -
the parable of the Lost Sheep,
the Lost Coin,
the Lost Son,
the Unjust Steward
and finally the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

Nowhere does Jesus say that it is not a parable because names are used.

Jesus taught via parables all the time. We all know that. Why would this case be any different?

Christ is speaking specifically to the Pharisees. Who had accepted the belief, that when a person died, they went directly from the grave (not from the White Throne judgement seat) into a temporary purification fire to purify the soul. It was an erroneous belief that the Jews understood. So Jesus used its as subject matter.

And notice this is not Traditional Hell which is the final and permanent - The Lake of Fire.

The Rich Man’s brothers were “Moses and the Prophets”. Who are their brothers? The Jews. It is about the Jews represented by the Rich man. The Jewish nation was to share the literal and spiritual blessings God had given them (riches) with the nations (beggars) of the world, represented by Lazarus.

You cannot see that because you want this parable to be about conditions in Traditional Hell - which would suit the idea that hell is not such a bad place.

 

[MedicBravo]

When Truth is stated real peo

As explained by myself and BAC in post #722 it is not a parable. You say this but give no support for your view. It is very clearly not a parable for reasons given to you.

Luke 16:24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

This statement by Jesus is crystal clear and detailed. Are you saying that Jesus was wrong? Jesus is lying to us?

The only passage in the entirety of scripture that speaks to what takes place in fire is in Luke 16.

If any quote anything else, like skin burning, screaming, crying and what not else, they are guilty of adding to scripture what is not there.

Now if you state, ''in fire you desire to ask for a drop of water off of someone's finger'', it is scriptural.

When Truth is spoken in any manner real people, places, and things are mentioned.
Hell is real. Lazarus is real. One so in agony doesn't have the right or stable state of mind or emotions yet manages to have brief moment of clarity.
What a reader might think is wrong by "one drop" and not "a cup" missed the point of the statement.
To dip ones finger into water and let one drop drip into another's mouth is a very close intimate act.

 

[Eddie Deepfield]

and according to what we did Rom 2:6

Rom 2;6,7 "He will render to each one according to his works: 7 to those who obey patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are self-seeking1 and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury."


All this means is, that those who obey Gods salvation gospel plan and fall under Christ,s umbrella of righteousness, will get eternal life in heaven according to

their good work of obeying it.

and those who don't and who are found in their own unrighteous will get wrath and fury - which is traditional hell according

to their bad work of denying it..

 

[Eddie Deepfield]

We can use all these four scriptures to draw a picture of what will take place in the Lake of fire. The most obvious answer will be a period in fire according to your crime.

OT testament scriptures can only be seen from the viewpoint of NT scriptures. Otherwise they are irrelevant for the NT dispensation. They were written to and apply ONLY to OT Jews not NT peoples.

The only crime relevant is to reject Gods salvation plan in Christ.

That is what sends you to hell.

Your name is NOT written in the Lambs book of life.

All have sinned and come short of the Glory of God.

 

[Eddie Deepfield]

What we MUST NOT do is use Dante's inferno, our dreams and imaginations to draw a picture of eternal hell. Can we agree on that?

Yep - agreed. Dantes poem was satire. A joke.

 

[Eddie Deepfield]

The most obvious answer will be a period in fire according to your crime.

That,s purgatory - according to Roman Catholic doctrine the souls of those who die in God's grace may make satisfaction for past sins and so become fit for heaven.