When did the Norse name "Hell" first show up in the Bible?

[Alley Oop]

How about you @B-A-C - have you ever researched when the Old English name 'Hell' first showed up in Bible translations?

 

[Rhema]

Any contradicting sources?

Yes

Anglo-Saxon Versions of Scripture

www.bible-researcher.com

 

[Alley Oop]

Yes

Anglo-Saxon Versions of Scripture

www.bible-researcher.com

You mean, 'No'.
Anglo Saxon of 725. A. D. is in OP.

 

[Rhema]

You mean, 'No'.
Anglo Saxon of 725. A. D. is in OP.

Sigh.... I meant yes, and I wrote yes as the accurate answer to your question. So Let my yes be yes.

You didn't read the link, did you.

Okay.

"It was in the northern part of England that a first attempt to present any part of the Bible in Anglo-Saxon was made. An illiterate herdsman named Cædmon, after hearing some Bible stories from the Celtic teachers at Whitby, turned some of the stories into poetic songs in his own language. This was about the year 670. From the eighth century we have an account of “the Venerable” Bede (a learned teacher at Jarrow, also in the north) translating the Gospel of John into Old English on his deathbed (735). This version has disappeared without a trace. There is no evidence of any version made in the south of England during this period."

Anglo-Saxon Versions of Scripture

www.bible-researcher.com

So provide evidence and a link to your supposed "725 AD" mss.

I note the Bibliography to my citation:

Bibliography​

• David C. Fowler, The Bible in Early English Literature. London: Sheldon Press, 1977.
• Geoffrey Shepherd, “English versions of the Scriptures before Wycliff,” in G. W. H. Lampe, ed., The Cambridge History of the Bible, vol. 2, Cambridge: University Press, 1969.
• Bruce M. Metzger, “The Anglo-Saxon Version,” in The Early Versions of the New Testament (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1977), pp. 443-455.
• George K. Anderson, The Literature of the Anglo-Saxons. Princeton, 1966.
• John T. McNeill, The Celtic Churches, A History A.D. 200 to 1200. Chicago, 1974.
• Bede, The Ecclesiastical History of the English People, ed. by Philip Hereford (London, 1935).
• Bertram Colgrave, ed., The Paris Psalter, vol. viii of the series Early English Manuscripts in Facsimile (Copenhagen, 1958).
• T.D. Kendrick, et al., Evangeliorum quattuor codex Lindisfarnensis (2 vols. Oltun and Lausanne, 1956, 1960).
• Walter W. Skeat, The Holy Gospels in Anglo-Saxon, Northumbrian, and Old Mercian Versions, synoptically arranged, with collations exhibiting all the readings of all the MSS.; together with the early Latin version as contained in the Lindisfarne MS., collated with the Latin Version of the Rushworth MS. (Cambridge, 1871-87; reprinted Darmstadt, 1970).
• James W. Bright, The Gospel of Saint John in West-Saxon (London and Boston, 1904).
• Joseph Bosworth and George Waring, The Gothic and Anglo-Saxon Gospels in Parallel Columns with the Versions of Wycliffe and Tyndale; Arranged, with preface and notes, by the Rev, Joseph Bosworth, D.D.F.R.S.F.S.A. Professor of Anglo Saxon, Oxford; Assisted by George Waring, Esq. M.A. of Trinity College, Cambridge, and Magdalen Hall, Oxford. Third Edition, London: Reeves & Turner, 1888. Reprinted as The Gospels: Gothic, Anglo-Saxon, Wycliffe and Tyndale versions arranged in parallel columns. Fourth Edition. London: Gibbings, 1907.
• S.J. Crawford, ed., The Old English Version of the Heptateuch, Ælfric’s Treatise on the Old and New Testament, and his Preface to Genesis (Early English Text Society, o.s. 160; London: Oxford University Press, 1922; reprinted with the text of two additional manuscripts transcribed by N.R. Ker, London, 1969), pp. 76-80. Contains Ælfric’s treatise on the Old and New Testament, his preface to Genesis and the OE prose versions of the first seven books of the Bible.
• Beryl Smalley, The Study of the Bible in the Middle Ages (2nd ed. Oxford, 1952).

Rhema

 

[complete]

"best described the grave" - based on whose assessment?
Based on Rev 3:1, the dead church is the place of the dead.
Like the current state of 'christianity'.

Hello @Alley Oop,

As the translation of the Bible into English took place way before your time, unfortunately, it would not have been possible to ask for your assessment.

The assessment made in Revelation 3:1 of the assembly at Sardis, was made by the risen Christ. He is able to make righteous judgments, unlike you and I.

I prefer to leave all judgment to Him. I can only make sure that I attend to the plank in my own eye, and leave the splinter in the eye of another for them to attend to before God, in Christ Jesus, Who is best able to remove it without damaging the faith of the individual concerned.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Alley Oop]

Hello @Alley Oop,

As the translation of the Bible into English took place way before your time, unfortunately, it would not have been possible to ask for your assessment.

The assessment made in Revelation 3:1 of the assembly at Sardis, was made by the risen Christ. He is able to make righteous judgments, unlike you and I.

I prefer to leave all judgment to Him. I can only make sure that I attend to the plank in my own eye, and leave the splinter in the eye of another for them to attend to before God, in Christ Jesus, Who is best able to remove it without damaging the faith of the individual concerned.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

A spiritual man judges ALL THINGS - I Cor 2:15

You've left that out of your lexicon too.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Hope this helps. I came across this list for understanding translations, and it does not miss the mark. I'm sure some may add or take away from it, but it has a good foundation for those who like to critique the rightness of the bible they are using or that another uses.

• God can speak to you through a variety of translations
• There is no such thing as a perfect translation
• The KJV was translated from later manuscripts. Modern translations (NIV, NLT, NASB) used older manuscripts
• Verses have not been removed from the Bible
• The differences in translation do not affect basic Christian doctrine
• Arguing over translations divides the Body of Christ further
• Language changes over time
• The majority of conservative bible scholars reject the KJV only view

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[B-A-C]

How about you @B-A-C - have you ever researched when the Old English name 'Hell' first showed up in Bible translations?

I take it, you missed post #3 in this thread.

 

[Rhema]

Verses have not been removed from the Bible

Sir... please.

The differences in translation do not affect basic Christian doctrine

Tell that to the Catholic (unless you consider Catholics not to be Christian).

(Matthew 4:17 KJV) From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.​

​

(Matthew 4:17 DRB) From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say: Do penance, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.​

I'll hold my tongue for the rest.

Rhema

 

[Christ4Ever]

Sir... please.


Tell that to the Catholic (unless you consider Catholics not to be Christian).

(Matthew 4:17 KJV) From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.​

​

(Matthew 4:17 DRB) From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say: Do penance, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.​

I'll hold my tongue for the rest.

Rhema

Dear Rhema,
I guess a note should be added to the list that excludes all things Catholic, since the Bible they use I believe has 73 books, while the Protestant translations hold to 66.
There is bound to be differences in them, since there are certainly differences in the faith that each espouses as necessary for Salvation.

Thanks for bringing that up!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Alley Oop]

I take it, you missed post #3 in this thread.

#3 does not address WHEN the Old Norse name "hell" (hel or helle) was first used in the Bible. The OP states when. No one has offered any opposing view at this time. Knowing the hebrew or greek words that the Old Norse name "Hell" was transposed upon, is not the thesis of this thread.

 

[Alley Oop]

Sigh.... I meant yes, and I wrote yes as the accurate answer to your question. So Let my yes be yes.

You didn't read the link, did you.

Okay.

"It was in the northern part of England that a first attempt to present any part of the Bible in Anglo-Saxon was made. An illiterate herdsman named Cædmon, after hearing some Bible stories from the Celtic teachers at Whitby, turned some of the stories into poetic songs in his own language. This was about the year 670. From the eighth century we have an account of “the Venerable” Bede (a learned teacher at Jarrow, also in the north) translating the Gospel of John into Old English on his deathbed (735). This version has disappeared without a trace. There is no evidence of any version made in the south of England during this period."

Anglo-Saxon Versions of Scripture

www.bible-researcher.com

So provide evidence and a link to your supposed "725 AD" mss.

I note the Bibliography to my citation:

Bibliography​

• David C. Fowler, The Bible in Early English Literature. London: Sheldon Press, 1977.
• Geoffrey Shepherd, “English versions of the Scriptures before Wycliff,” in G. W. H. Lampe, ed., The Cambridge History of the Bible, vol. 2, Cambridge: University Press, 1969.
• Bruce M. Metzger, “The Anglo-Saxon Version,” in The Early Versions of the New Testament (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1977), pp. 443-455.
• George K. Anderson, The Literature of the Anglo-Saxons. Princeton, 1966.
• John T. McNeill, The Celtic Churches, A History A.D. 200 to 1200. Chicago, 1974.
• Bede, The Ecclesiastical History of the English People, ed. by Philip Hereford (London, 1935).
• Bertram Colgrave, ed., The Paris Psalter, vol. viii of the series Early English Manuscripts in Facsimile (Copenhagen, 1958).
• T.D. Kendrick, et al., Evangeliorum quattuor codex Lindisfarnensis (2 vols. Oltun and Lausanne, 1956, 1960).
• Walter W. Skeat, The Holy Gospels in Anglo-Saxon, Northumbrian, and Old Mercian Versions, synoptically arranged, with collations exhibiting all the readings of all the MSS.; together with the early Latin version as contained in the Lindisfarne MS., collated with the Latin Version of the Rushworth MS. (Cambridge, 1871-87; reprinted Darmstadt, 1970).
• James W. Bright, The Gospel of Saint John in West-Saxon (London and Boston, 1904).
• Joseph Bosworth and George Waring, The Gothic and Anglo-Saxon Gospels in Parallel Columns with the Versions of Wycliffe and Tyndale; Arranged, with preface and notes, by the Rev, Joseph Bosworth, D.D.F.R.S.F.S.A. Professor of Anglo Saxon, Oxford; Assisted by George Waring, Esq. M.A. of Trinity College, Cambridge, and Magdalen Hall, Oxford. Third Edition, London: Reeves & Turner, 1888. Reprinted as The Gospels: Gothic, Anglo-Saxon, Wycliffe and Tyndale versions arranged in parallel columns. Fourth Edition. London: Gibbings, 1907.
• S.J. Crawford, ed., The Old English Version of the Heptateuch, Ælfric’s Treatise on the Old and New Testament, and his Preface to Genesis (Early English Text Society, o.s. 160; London: Oxford University Press, 1922; reprinted with the text of two additional manuscripts transcribed by N.R. Ker, London, 1969), pp. 76-80. Contains Ælfric’s treatise on the Old and New Testament, his preface to Genesis and the OE prose versions of the first seven books of the Bible.
• Beryl Smalley, The Study of the Bible in the Middle Ages (2nd ed. Oxford, 1952).

Rhema

your Anglo-Saxon link does establish the existence of the 725 A.D. translation, but does address WHEN the Old Norse name "Hell" was first used.

Sigh.... I meant yes, and I wrote yes as the accurate answer to your question. So Let my yes be yes.

You didn't read the link, did you.

Okay.

"It was in the northern part of England that a first attempt to present any part of the Bible in Anglo-Saxon was made. An illiterate herdsman named Cædmon, after hearing some Bible stories from the Celtic teachers at Whitby, turned some of the stories into poetic songs in his own language. This was about the year 670. From the eighth century we have an account of “the Venerable” Bede (a learned teacher at Jarrow, also in the north) translating the Gospel of John into Old English on his deathbed (735). This version has disappeared without a trace. There is no evidence of any version made in the south of England during this period."

Anglo-Saxon Versions of Scripture

www.bible-researcher.com

So provide evidence and a link to your supposed "725 AD" mss.

I note the Bibliography to my citation:

Bibliography​

• David C. Fowler, The Bible in Early English Literature. London: Sheldon Press, 1977.
• Geoffrey Shepherd, “English versions of the Scriptures before Wycliff,” in G. W. H. Lampe, ed., The Cambridge History of the Bible, vol. 2, Cambridge: University Press, 1969.
• Bruce M. Metzger, “The Anglo-Saxon Version,” in The Early Versions of the New Testament (Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1977), pp. 443-455.
• George K. Anderson, The Literature of the Anglo-Saxons. Princeton, 1966.
• John T. McNeill, The Celtic Churches, A History A.D. 200 to 1200. Chicago, 1974.
• Bede, The Ecclesiastical History of the English People, ed. by Philip Hereford (London, 1935).
• Bertram Colgrave, ed., The Paris Psalter, vol. viii of the series Early English Manuscripts in Facsimile (Copenhagen, 1958).
• T.D. Kendrick, et al., Evangeliorum quattuor codex Lindisfarnensis (2 vols. Oltun and Lausanne, 1956, 1960).
• Walter W. Skeat, The Holy Gospels in Anglo-Saxon, Northumbrian, and Old Mercian Versions, synoptically arranged, with collations exhibiting all the readings of all the MSS.; together with the early Latin version as contained in the Lindisfarne MS., collated with the Latin Version of the Rushworth MS. (Cambridge, 1871-87; reprinted Darmstadt, 1970).
• James W. Bright, The Gospel of Saint John in West-Saxon (London and Boston, 1904).
• Joseph Bosworth and George Waring, The Gothic and Anglo-Saxon Gospels in Parallel Columns with the Versions of Wycliffe and Tyndale; Arranged, with preface and notes, by the Rev, Joseph Bosworth, D.D.F.R.S.F.S.A. Professor of Anglo Saxon, Oxford; Assisted by George Waring, Esq. M.A. of Trinity College, Cambridge, and Magdalen Hall, Oxford. Third Edition, London: Reeves & Turner, 1888. Reprinted as The Gospels: Gothic, Anglo-Saxon, Wycliffe and Tyndale versions arranged in parallel columns. Fourth Edition. London: Gibbings, 1907.
• S.J. Crawford, ed., The Old English Version of the Heptateuch, Ælfric’s Treatise on the Old and New Testament, and his Preface to Genesis (Early English Text Society, o.s. 160; London: Oxford University Press, 1922; reprinted with the text of two additional manuscripts transcribed by N.R. Ker, London, 1969), pp. 76-80. Contains Ælfric’s treatise on the Old and New Testament, his preface to Genesis and the OE prose versions of the first seven books of the Bible.
• Beryl Smalley, The Study of the Bible in the Middle Ages (2nd ed. Oxford, 1952).

Rhema

Here are multiple references to the Old Norse name "Hell" first used in 725 AD Anglo Saxon bible to what you call 'supposed'. lol

725 anglo saxon bible use name of hell - Buscar con Google

 

[Rhema]

since the Bible they use I believe has 73 books

80-ish books, just like the KJV proper. Depends upon where one draws the line.

Placing the "additions" as in-line text, then okay, 73. Still the same number as the KJV proper.

"The apocrypha was a part of the KJV for 274 years until being removed in 1885 A.D."​

APOCRYPHA KJV (King James Version)

Apocrypha KJV (King James Version) from the 1611 King James Version of the Bible, provided as reference.

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Yet one should not readily dismiss the canon of the Church of the East as established and protected by the Apostle Thomas, having only 22 book in the New Testament.

since there are certainly differences in the faith that each espouses as necessary for Salvation.

Based upon the two most fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith, that of Soteriology and Ecclesiastical Authority, there are three major branches within Christianity - Catholic, Protestant, and Pentecostal.

But I'm fairly sure you knew that.
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

your Anglo-Saxon link does establish the existence of the 725 A.D. translation,

How? The numeral 725 is not even found on that page. (Man... I want what you're smoking... )

"Hell" first used in 725 AD Anglo Saxon bible

You need to read all those entries again. The word "hell" is found circa 725 in Anglo Saxon DOCUMENTS... not "BIBLE."

There is no 725 Anglo-Saxon BIBLE.

Good luck with that misapprehension.

Rhema
(Accuracy matters.)