When Will God Judge His House First?

[Bill]

That peace treaty did not give Israel permission to build the third Temple. There are a lot of peace treaties with Israel but the one that starts the countdown of the 7 year great tribulation is the one that allows Israel to build the third Temple. Once the command is given out to build the third Temple is the beginning of the 7 year great tribulation from which halfway through that great tribulation, that son of perdition will enter the Holy of Holies and declare himself to be "god" and then the Jews will be the ones on the run.

The first treaty among many you mean but it was among all those treaties that gave permission for Israel to lay the Cornerstone on the new Temple

 

[GodB4Us]

All of them, they reduced the law to just 4 commands for the gentiles.

You will probably have to do a thread on that to prove it by the scripture since I do not believe it.

Incidentally, Jesus did testify that His disciples were guiltless for profaning the sabbath because He was with them in Matthew 12:1-8 and that is why we are guiltless for profaning the sabbath because He is in us 2 Corinthians 13:5 as our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit 1 Corinthians 6:19-20.

Since Jesus commandments are higher than the works of the law, this is where we are trusting Him to do His work in us to His glory since He is the Good Shepherd that helps us t follow Him of those that put their trust in the Lord to do this.

Indeed, the apostle John reduce all the commandments to these 2 for how we are to follow Him as His disciples in abiding in Him. 1 John 3:22-24 The first commandment of believing in Him as our Good Shepherd is how we follow Him in all things while the second is a guide to let us know that we are following Him and if not, we can take it to Him in prayer trusting Him to help us to love others with His love as we should. All the more why we rest in Him while trusting Him to help us do His commandments thus His yoke is easy and His burden is light. Matthew 11:28-30 and we find rest for our souls by ceasing from our works to fully enter into that rest for our help is from Him for all things in Hebrews 4:1-16

So I am pretty sure you are wrong about Jesus talking about Paul in Matthew 5:19 in being the least as breaking the least of His commandments and teaching others so, but if you want to take the time to post a thread on it, feel free to do so or at the very least, post a link to whatever web site that gave you that notion.

 

[GodB4Us]

When the great day of the Lord comes everyone and I mean everyone man woman child baby it won't matter who they are they will know it is the Lord

Just as, after the rapture, the first angel with the everlasting gospel will preach to all the world so that everyone will know the gospel and then the end will come as heralded by the 2nd angle about the fall of Babylon and thus a third of the earth is burned up Revelation 8:7 which will set the stage for the rest of the world for the mark of the beast system and the coming New World order and thus the great tribulation for why the 3rd angel will warn every one the consequence for taking the mark to buy & sell to survive is the lake of fire for why no one will have an excuse for not knowing the gospel or claiming they did not know the consequence for taking the mark. Yes, everyone will know Jesus Christ is Lord.

 

[GodB4Us]

The first treaty among many you mean but it was among all those treaties that gave permission for Israel to lay the Cornerstone on the new Temple

After the rapture and a third of the earth is burned up ( the western hemisphere ) with fallen Babylon in it as fallen USA, Israel's greatest ally, the world will need to placate Israel by giving them that peace treaty to build that third Temple in Jerusalem just so they do not launch their nukes.

 

[joestue]

Incidentally, Jesus did testify that His disciples were guiltless for profaning the sabbath because He was with them in Matthew 12:1-8 and that is why we are guiltless for profaning the sabbath because He is in us 2 Corinthians 13:5 as our bodies are the temples of the Holy Spirit 1 Corinthians 6:19-20.

They were breaking the "rules" or "safeguards" or guardrails" as interpreted by the teachers of the law who, as you should know, Jesus spoke of when he says " the scribes and pharisees sit on Moses seat, therefore you must do what they say but do not do what they do for they are hypocrites".

Jesus also complained about how burdensome they had made the law and how they had shut the kingdom of heavens doors.

So anyhow Jesus didn't break any of the laws, nor teach others to do so. Given that he himself made the law, he had the authority to interpret it. David ate the showbread as you know, and didn't break the law, because his men were in legitimate need of it.

You know there is a string tied all the way around nyc? It's so the Jews can travel within the whole city on the Sabbath..

Many Christians who read Paul and love their dispensations come to the conclusion they can disregard everything Jesus said before he died and rose again. They then conclude that the law (and the rest of Jesus words) is for the Christians in the millennial reign for when Jesus returns and rules the nations with a rod of iron.

Rules for you but not for me...

 

[GodB4Us]

They were breaking the "rules" or "safeguards" or guardrails" as interpreted by the teachers of the law who, as you should know, Jesus spoke of when he says " the scribes and pharisees sit on Moses seat, therefore you must do what they say but do not do what they do for they are hypocrites".

Jesus also complained about how burdensome they had made the law and how they had shut the kingdom of heavens doors.

So anyhow Jesus didn't break any of the laws, nor teach others to do so. Given that he himself made the law, he had the authority to interpret it. David ate the showbread as you know, and didn't break the law, because his men were in legitimate need of it.

You know there is a string tied all the way around nyc? It's so the Jews can travel within the whole city on the Sabbath..

Many Christians who read Paul and love their dispensations come to the conclusion they can disregard everything Jesus said before he died and rose again. They then conclude that the law (and the rest of Jesus words) is for the Christians in the millennial reign for when Jesus returns and rules the nations with a rod of iron.

Rules for you but not for me...

Matthew 12:1At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat.
2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.
3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;
4 How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests?
5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Let the Lord help us understand what He is saying here.

The only reason those in the temple were guiltless for profaning the sabbath was because they were in the Temple. Yes, Jesus cited the need, but that was not why nor how they were guiltless when He deferred from the temple to One greater than the Temple was here for why His disciples were guiltless, even though there was a hunger need to be met. It is because Jesus Christ was with them, as One greater then the Temple, was why they and saved believers today are guiltless for profaning the sabbath.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So I am pretty sure you are misunderstanding Jesus's words and Paul's words because the apostle john reduced all the commandments down to 2 which should cover every other commandment for abiding in Him as His disciples.

1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

It is similar to the other 2 commandments under the Old Covenant.

Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Now under the New Covenant, we believe in Jesus Christ as our Saviour that we are saved for simply believing in Him and we believe in Jesus Christ as our Good shepherd to help us to follow Him in all things whereby He gives us His love so we can love our enemies to pray for them for the Father to forgive them for they know not what they do so that IF they should ever be saved or repented, we are ready to greet them with Christ's love when we see them again in Heaven..

So ask Jesus for wisdom and rely on Him to be your Good Shepherd in understanding His words so as to see all His commandments under the New Covenant are something we are to bring to Him for help in doing, but keeping the sabbath is no longer a requirement for salvation as under the Old Covenant because you are saved since having believed in him for eternal life.

Believers are free to honor Him any day, including the sabbath day, but they are to do so not for obtaining salvation as if still under the Old Covenant, but as saved believers just honoring Him that day without judging any body else for not honoring Him that day because they are the Lord's. Once you recognize what He has done for why He is in you & with you always, then there is a rest for the people of God in Christ Jesus for salvation AND for following Him by His grace & by His help.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Would you not say that breaking the least of His commandments and teaching others so, as practicing lawlessness? And yet how and why would they still be part of the kingdom of heaven and yet called the least?

That's the same as "weeping and gnashing of teeth in utter darkness", which was a common expression to describe being shut out of the house and left alone on the street at nighttime. Honesty I don't see how such a dark corner fits into the scenery of New Jerusalem where the light of the holy trinity shine upon the golden street, but if it does exist in the kingdom of heaven, you probably don't wanna be there while everybody else is worshiping, rejoicing and celebrating.

 

[GodB4Us]

That's the same as "weeping and gnashing of teeth in utter darkness", which was a common expression to describe being shut out of the house and left alone on the street at nighttime. Honesty I don't see how such a dark corner fits into the scenery of New Jerusalem where the light of the holy trinity shine upon the golden street, but if it does exist in the kingdom of heaven, you probably don't wanna be there while everybody else is worshiping, rejoicing and celebrating.

The prodigal son gave up his inheritance for wild living and although he can never get it back, he is still son and on top of that, there will be a celebration. I hope in Christ Jesus as my Good Shepherd & Friend that I am abiding in Him as His disciple as well as not being snared by the cares of this life that I am willing to go too by His help & by His grace to be of the firstfruits of the resurrection at the pre great tribulation rapture event. After the great tribulation, the left behind saints with former believers, and the new believers after the rapture that have died, will be resurrected where I shall be celebrating in the Lord for finishing His work even in those saints & former believers left behind along with new believers.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The prodigal son gave up his inheritance for wild living and although he can never get it back, he is still son and on top of that, there will be a celebration. I hope in Christ Jesus as my Good Shepherd & Friend that I am abiding in Him as His disciple as well as not being snared by the cares of this life that I am willing to go too by His help & by His grace to be of the firstfruits of the resurrection at the pre great tribulation rapture event. After the great tribulation, the left behind saints with former believers, and the new believers after the rapture that have died, will be resurrected where I shall be celebrating in the Lord for finishing His work even in those saints & former believers left behind along with new believers.

There won’t be any “left behind saints”, this expression itself is an oxymoron. The church will be “removed” so the Antichrist can be revealed, but by no means does that mean we all suddenly disappear. Most likely gentile Christians would all be dead in the four horsemen judgements, by the 6th seal they’re already in heaven, the only remnants that are left are the Israelites who finally accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, hence “the first will be last”.

 

[*Lavender]

In the video it was addressed that the salvation in Christ should be uniting true children of God. That I agree upon and also receiving grace increasingly for more faith, and trust in walking with God daily.

Either way that helps whether it's going through the great tribulation or not being left behind. If there is that.

I am interested and hear the different views here on eschatology and I cannot form an opinion of how it will all definitely happen,and the order but am in agreement on the importance of salvation in Jesus and having a growing faith and trust in Him, that increases daily through receiving the grace that is given.

 

[GodB4Us]

There won’t be any “left behind saints”, this expression itself is an oxymoron. The church will be “removed” so the Antichrist can be revealed, but by no means does that mean we all suddenly disappear. Most likely gentile Christians would all be dead in the four horsemen judgements, by the 6th seal they’re already in heaven, the only remnants that are left are the Israelites who finally accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, hence “the first will be last”.

Then explain who these saints are, that are His servants being cut off and left behind with unbelievers for not being ready and getting stripes for not being ready as His servants? Luke 12:40-49

Explain why this warning to the church at Thyatira to repent or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation? Revelation 2:18-25

That is two examples in scriptures of left behind saints. There are more, but explain away those two references for how there are no left behind saints when Jesus is warning them to be ready and to repent or else be left behind.

 

[GodB4Us]

There won’t be any “left behind saints”, this expression itself is an oxymoron. The church will be “removed” so the Antichrist can be revealed, but by no means does that mean we all suddenly disappear. Most likely gentile Christians would all be dead in the four horsemen judgements, by the 6th seal they’re already in heaven, the only remnants that are left are the Israelites who finally accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior, hence “the first will be last”.

Do you align yourself with this methodology of already saved believers receiving the "Spirit of God" for "miracles" to happen when they lose self control & fall backwards? Matthew 7:21-27

The believer in this video below did not test the spirits but believed every spirit coming over them to be of God. 1 John 4:1-4 Proverbs 25:26-28 1 Corinthians 14:32-33

So in spite of the faith that Jesus Christ is in you 2 Corinthians 13:5, do you believe one can receive the Holy Spirit again and again and again after other sensational signs in the flesh? 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2

More reasons why saved believers that go astray, will be left behind as they are the foolish virgins out to the market still, getting oil to be filled when the prudent know they have been filled since salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. Matthew 25:1-13 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

 

[Bill]

Just as, after the rapture, the first angel with the everlasting gospel will preach to all the world so that everyone will know the gospel and then the end will come as heralded by the 2nd angle about the fall of Babylon and thus a third of the earth is burned up Revelation 8:7 which will set the stage for the rest of the world for the mark of the beast system and the coming New World order and thus the great tribulation for why the 3rd angel will warn every one the consequence for taking the mark to buy & sell to survive is the lake of fire for why no one will have an excuse for not knowing the gospel or claiming they did not know the consequence for taking the mark. Yes, everyone will know Jesus Christ is Lord.

There is only one rapture it's when Jesus returns

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Then explain who these saints are, that are His servants being cut off and left behind with unbelievers for not being ready and getting stripes for not being ready as His servants? Luke 12:40-49

Explain why this warning to the church at Thyatira to repent or else be cast into the bed of the great tribulation? Revelation 2:18-25

That is two examples in scriptures of left behind saints. There are more, but explain away those two references for how there are no left behind saints when Jesus is warning them to be ready and to repent or else be left behind.

First of all, I believe Revelation is not written in chronological order, from chapter 12 to 19 is a recap of end times events from another perspective. The Great Tribulation only refers to the 7 trumpets/bowls, by then all unbelievers will be marked. If you’re still alive by then, you’re probably deceived and marked, since anybody who refuses to take it will be economically sanctioned and ultimately be killed. Jesus warned that even the elect could be deceived, so get ready and stay frosty.

 

[Bill]

First of all, I believe Revelation is not written in chronological order, from chapter 12 to 19 is a recap of end times events from another perspective. The Great Tribulation only refers to the 7 trumpets/bowls, by then all unbelievers will be marked. If you’re still alive by then, you’re probably deceived and marked, since anybody who refuses to take it will be economically sanctioned and ultimately be killed. Jesus warned that even the elect could be deceived, so get ready and stay frosty.

You are right that the revelations is not written in chronological order. There is a lot of overlay

The first four seals are somewhat chronological I think the first one was definitely first and then the second and third seal came approximately the same time and on the fourth seal came a little bit after those two the 6th and 7th seal will come literally one on top of the other one within a 6-month period of each other.

The first of the trumpets will also follow very shortly after the seven seal then the rest of the trumpets and the bowls are in chronological order.

During the time of the trumpets and bowls, mixed in there you will have the three woes. The second woe is the two witnesses.

The Triumph of Mary, also known as woman and the Son and the serpent are all mixed in there as well

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Do you align yourself with this methodology of already saved believers receiving the "Spirit of God" for "miracles" to happen when they lose self control & fall backwards? Matthew 7:21-27

The believer in this video below did not test the spirits but believed every spirit coming over them to be of God. 1 John 4:1-4 Proverbs 25:26-28 1 Corinthians 14:32-33

So in spite of the faith that Jesus Christ is in you 2 Corinthians 13:5, do you believe one can receive the Holy Spirit again and again and again after other sensational signs in the flesh? 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 & 1 Timothy 4:1-2

More reasons why saved believers that go astray, will be left behind as they are the foolish virgins out to the market still, getting oil to be filled when the prudent know they have been filled since salvation by faith in Jesus Christ. Matthew 25:1-13 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15

I'm been taught that based on Jn. 3:16-17, there're only the saints and the ain'ts, you're either saved or not, but that's not the whole picture. The parable of the sower reveals that there're the rocky soil and thorny soil in between, which, as Jesus later explained, are the shallow hearts and the divided hearts. Those are the vast majority of Christians, you and I may be included. Among the seven churches, Smyrna and Philladelphia are in stark contrast to these two kinds of soil, while the other five have all fallen into these two categories. I'm not gonna argue with you on semantics, you decide by your own terminology whether they are saved or not. Whether we are saved or not.

Throughout history, there's always a time window of grace, a middle ground for the rocky soil and thorny soil to repent, but this middle ground is shrinking during trials and tribulations - like nowadays. At the end, it would be the harvest time, then the wheat will be gathered into barn and the tares thrown into fire.

 

[PloughBoy]

There is only one rapture it's when Jesus returns

The word is not “Rapture” The Actual word is “Caught up”!

So do not say:

“There is only one rapture it's when Jesus returns”

But say:
“there is only one caught up it’s when Jesus returns”

If you want to translate it correctly.

Now how does the proper translation fit?

NASB 1977
“Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and [THERE] we shall always be with the Lord.”


Contemporary English Version
After I have done this, I will come back and take you with me. Then we will be together.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

The word is not “Rapture” The Actual word is “Caught up”!

So do not say:

“There is only one rapture it's when Jesus returns”

But say:
“there is only one caught up it’s when Jesus returns”

If you want to translate it correctly.

Now how does the proper translation fit?

NASB 1977
“Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and [THERE] we shall always be with the Lord.”


Contemporary English Version
After I have done this, I will come back and take you with me. Then we will be together.

Nonetheless, long before that the Holy Spirit that restrains the Antichrist will be removed, then the end will come.

 

[joestue]

Nonetheless, long before that the Holy Spirit that restrains the Antichrist will be removed, then the end will come.

You should consider that it is michael the archangel that is restraining the antichrist, and he will take his seat with the believers to make war against it once it is released on the earth. The believers will be making war against the enemy, spiritually and perhaps physically on the earth. unless of course, you are appointed to the sword, or famine, or captivity. traditionally those verses have been interpreted to mean that the restrainer would leave, sit down, etc.. vacating their place and letting the evil one run amock. but this isn't really what Daniel was saying if you are willing to reconsider the interpretation of the hebrew.

You can easily find youtube vids and text supporting this interpretation. the Holy Spirit never leaves... it is the Spirit of God, there is nowhere it isn't... its just either with you or against you, or holding back from destroying those who are perishing (and as such the unbeliever doesn't sense its presence)

 

[joestue]

2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

again, they weren't breaking the sabbath.
they were breaking the additional safeguards that the pharisees had added to the law.
Jesus then speaks some words to show them that they are in error. they don't listen, as usual, but they have no reply because they know they are wrong.