Where are you God?I

[Bluecheese]

I wrote this poem some years ago. When I was a child of eleven, and a believer in Christianity, I needed God to give me some evidence of his presence as I was in dire need of comfort and support. I had an issue which troubled me and gave me unpleasant nightmares. I never ever had any sense of the presence of the deity or Jesus. If they couldn't support a child either they didn't care, or more likely they didn't exist. The doubts grew until I lost my faith by the end of my teenage years.

• Where Are You God?
• Where are you God when we need you?
• Where are you God when we pray?
• Where are you God in our darkness?
• Where are you God in our day?
• Where are you God in grief’s anguish?
• Where are you God in our despair?
• Where are you God in our torment?
• Where are you God, are you there?
• Where are you God when we’re hurting?
• Where are you God in our pain?
• Where are you God in our crying?
• Where are you God, please explain?
• RJG

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Bluecheese

Sadly, the teenager in us requires whatever is evident or not. To conform to a preconceived notion defined by the senses. That He must somehow express Himself not as He is, but as we expect Him to be. Oh, we might say we did not or do not have any thoughts on how He should be, but we do. Express Him as evidenced by the life, death, and resurrection. We are more readily to reject it, because (add the reason here).

The Evidence is all around us (Creation), even now and throughout history. We even feel it within ourselves that there must be more. Even as we look in the mirror or even at our loved ones. We were made in His image.

Jesus was rejected of all. I guess it had to be that way. His appearance was plain. Nothing that would set Him up as being any more special than anyone else. Yet, in the short life of ministry. He offered healing, love, and an eternity and received nothing but rejection, with a Crucifixion to boot. Still, He changed a world!!

Even in your own family, the concept is not foreign to you. Yet out of the norm, you opened your own heart and family to someone who became more then any of you could have imagined!

I have a sense that you are not new here. That you've been here before. It is never too late to change the story that is still being written in our lives. In your life.
C4E
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[Waggles]

I needed God to give me some evidence of his presence as I was in dire need of comfort and support.

http://miracles.areonthe.net/TESTIM...IMONY Posters/Bradley, Lismore, Australia.pdf

http://miracles.areonthe.net/TESTIM...ESTIMONY Posters/Ame Nyeadeh Zee, Liberia.pdf

 

[Bluecheese]

@Bluecheese

Sadly, the teenager in us requires whatever is evident or not. To conform to a preconceived notion defined by the senses. That He must somehow express Himself not as He is, but as we expect Him to be. Oh, we might say we did not or do not have any thoughts on how He should be, but we do. Express Him as evidenced by the life, death, and resurrection. We are more readily to reject it, because (add the reason here).

The Evidence is all around us (Creation), even now and throughout history. We even feel it within ourselves that there must be more. Even as we look in the mirror or even at our loved ones. We were made in His image.

Jesus was rejected of all. I guess it had to be that way. His appearance was plain. Nothing that would set Him up as being any more special than anyone else. Yet, in the short life of ministry. He offered healing, love, and an eternity and received nothing but rejection, with a Crucifixion to boot. Still, He changed a world!!

Even in your own family, the concept is not foreign to you. Yet out of the norm, you opened your own heart and family to someone who became more then any of you could have imagined!

I have a sense that you are not new here. That you've been here before. It is never too late to change the story that is still being written in our lives. In your life.
C4E
<><

I suppose everyone has their own experiences of life and draw their own conclusions. I am now 65 and have never been presented with any verifiable evidence that any deity exists, or that Jesus was resurrected. Of course I could be wrong, but I don't believe in taking out 'fire insurance' just in case I am, I think that would be hypocritical.

 

[Sue J Love]

I wrote this poem some years ago. When I was a child of eleven, and a believer in Christianity, I needed God to give me some evidence of his presence as I was in dire need of comfort and support. I had an issue which troubled me and gave me unpleasant nightmares. I never ever had any sense of the presence of the deity or Jesus. If they couldn't support a child either they didn't care, or more likely they didn't exist. The doubts grew until I lost my faith by the end of my teenage years.

• Where Are You God?
• Where are you God when we need you?
• Where are you God when we pray?
• Where are you God in our darkness?
• Where are you God in our day?
• Where are you God in grief’s anguish?
• Where are you God in our despair?
• Where are you God in our torment?
• Where are you God, are you there?
• Where are you God when we’re hurting?
• Where are you God in our pain?
• Where are you God in our crying?
• Where are you God, please explain?
• RJG

The problem with your questions is that they are "Me" focused, as though God was made for us, rather than us made for him. Humans expect God to be like a Genie in the sky granting our every requests and desires, and that he should be there to fulfill our every need, regardless of whether or not we honor, glorify, praise, worship and obey him. Job, who was a righteous man, questioned God when he was going through a difficult time of suffering. God's response to him was to ask him a series of questions similar in nature to the questions you posed to God, only God was asking Job where he was (See Job 38-42). The children of Israel posed similar questions as yours to God when he didn't do what they thought he should do, and he responded to them somewhat similarly as he did to Job (See Isaiah 58). The problem, you see, is not really one of "Where is God when I need him?" It is really one of "Where are you when God is calling to you?"

Then Job replied to the Lord:

2 “I know that you can do all things;
no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.
4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.’
5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42:1-6​

 

[Bluecheese]

The problem with your questions is that they are "Me" focused, as though God was made for us, rather than us made for him. Humans expect God to be like a Genie in the sky granting our every requests and desires, and that he should be there to fulfill our every need, regardless of whether or not we honor, glorify, praise, worship and obey him. Job, who was a righteous man, questioned God when he was going through a difficult time of suffering. God's response to him was to ask him a series of questions similar in nature to the questions you posed to God, only God was asking Job where he was (See Job 38-42). The children of Israel posed similar questions as yours to God when he didn't do what they thought he should do, and he responded to them somewhat similarly as he did to Job (See Isaiah 58). The problem, you see, is not really one of "Where is God when I need him?" It is really one of "Where are you when God is calling to you?"

Then Job replied to the Lord:

2 “I know that you can do all things;
no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.
4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.’
5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42:1-6​

I am of the opinion that if a god existed it should make its presence irrefutable not a matter of faith. Anyone can be forgiven for not believing he exists as there is no verifiable evidence to support his existence.

 

[Sue J Love]

I am of the opinion that if a god existed it should make its presence irrefutable not a matter of faith. Anyone can be forgiven for not believing he exists as there is no verifiable evidence to support his existence.

I am guessing you are familiar with this passage of scripture, but I will quote it to you anyway. I pray for your salvation.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them. Romans 1:18-32 (NIV)​

 

[Bluecheese]

Sue I think we will have to agree to differ on this topic, I don't see it your way.

 

[Sue J Love]

Sue I think we will have to agree to differ on this topic, I don't see it your way.

I know you don't, but I care about your life and your eternal destiny, so I pray that God will open your eyes to see the truth, and that you will believe the truth. And, I hope one day we will meet in heaven.

 

[Bluecheese]

The idea of heaven doesn't appeal to me, when I die I hope that is it, end of!

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Bluecheese
A lot of conflicting emotions RJG and understandable. You're not the only one to have gone through periods of doubt. When the individual is first exposed to the Gospel. It is received in many different ways and colored by the communicator of the message which at times is the detriment of the receiver. Why detriment? Because, the one who presents the Gospel is the one who the person receiving the Gospel identifies with. If in a church, then it's the church. Rarely is the message separated from someone or something.

As a child or one of younger age. The association has greater bonding power. Not insurmountable, but truly a more difficult hurdle to climb. Yet, you being a climber in the past. This might I pray as do others here. Have you once again in youthful vigor, for what God has in store next for you. If you were to once again turn to Him. Not in youthful inexperience, but in well earned scares of life. :thumbsup:

When I was a child of eleven, and a believer in Christianity

I never ever had any sense of the presence of the deity or Jesus. If they couldn't support a child either they didn't care, or more likely they didn't exist. The doubts grew until I lost my faith by the end of my teenage years.

The above two comments are not reconcilable. To be a believer and never having any sense of the presence of Jesus or I'm assuming the Holy Spirit. Does not mesh. Now one may rationalize the experience afterwards, if it has happened. But to have one and not the other does not speak of an authentic change between what was then and is now in you.

Sadly, too often the thought that one must just say a few words and its done. Is what is communicated in the churches past, present and I'm sure future. Not all mind you, but many. Only you can say what that early experience was like. Self motivated, motivated by others, the need to be accepted, peer pressure, family pressure, duty etc. The list goes on in how someone says, "I believed, but no longer do".

The true experience is originated by God, and for God. It excludes all else. For nothing is as important as that initial exchange between you and Him. Not necessarily verbal, but it can be. A spiritual sensation that words fail to truly capture, but not always. It can as varied as the stars, or as simple as a breeze. Yet never without a change to the innermost being that one would call self. For it's something that no one can ever take away from you and one that you might reject as happening, but never to be forgotten.

I suppose everyone has their own experiences of life and draw their own conclusions. I am now 65 and have never been presented with any verifiable evidence that any deity exists, or that Jesus was resurrected. Of course I could be wrong, but I don't believe in taking out 'fire insurance' just in case I am, I think that would be hypocritical.

You are right that everyone has there own experiences in life, and you have had many. Yet, all attributable to chance

Evidence? What evidence do you seek? Can I see the tomb? It's empty. Why go to an empty one? Over 500 witnesses seeing Him after the Crucifixion? Not enough? How many would be enough if any number would count but one?

You are correct. Taking out "fire insurance" or believing in a Risen Jesus Christ just in case you're wrong would be hypocritical. Yet, if you're living in a place that has a lot of fires, and refuse the evidence of them because it doesn't meet your preconceived notion of what a "fire" is, also, makes little sense and would not be called hypocritical, but something else.

The idea of heaven doesn't appeal to me, when I die I hope that is it, end of!

Heaven not appealing? Never having seen it, and yet it is unappealing! It's like a child who has not tasted a food and just knowing they're not going to like it (yuk) I can imagine what it might be like, but the reality will be so much more! Why, because we will be changed and more then we are now (physically, mentally, spiritually).

You have had many experiences in your own life, that without prior knowledge/experience of occurred. They have made you more then you were before them and hopefully for the better Heaven would be no different, except that you're aware of it in thought, though the actuality is, hopefully some time in the future.

I would love to continue, but my lunch time is over at work!

I hope you receive this in the vein that it was meant.
Only in the Love of Christ Jesus.
C4E
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[Bluecheese]

You are entitled to your belief system, which I believed in once, but no longer. As for any afterlife, I have no interest in it, the heaven Christians rave about is certainly not one I would want to have any part of, it would be my idea of hell, which is where I am headed if my idea of hell, if it exists.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Bluecheese

There are very few things that I did as a child that I would not change, do, or handle differently knowing what I know now. Yet that is only fantasy, because I then would not be the person I am now. Possibility better, but also possibly worse for ware. So what part would you have changed? Would you not have allowed yourself to be pushed into believing in something you did not believe in? Was it the message or the messenger that drove you away?
C4E
<><

 

[Bluecheese]

@Bluecheese

There are very few things that I did as a child that I would not change, do, or handle differently knowing what I know now. Yet that is only fantasy, because I then would not be the person I am now. Possibility better, but also possibly worse for ware. So what part would you have changed? Would you not have allowed yourself to be pushed into believing in something you did not believe in? Was it the message or the messenger that drove you away?
C4E
<><

If my childhood had been secular it would have been much better. Being told you are going to burn in hell from the age of two by a sadistic paternal grandmother, who had beaten religion into her six kids, was NOT nice!

I thought religion was supposed to make you a better person, SILLY ME, many of the 'born agains' I knew during my childhood were definitely not good people! But as many of them believed in the once 'saved' always 'saved' dogma they thought they were going to heaven whatever they did thereafter! Quite a number cheated on their partners, including a very close family member. Some of them were not honest in their business dealings either!

Of course I have met some very decent Christians in my 65 years including our three daughters, but most are very moderate in their beliefs, not dogmatic and have a live and let live approach.

I am of the opinion that it is the sort of person you are which counts, not the faith you espouse.

 

[Christ4Ever]

@Bluecheese

Being told you are going to burn in hell from the age of two by a sadistic paternal grandmother, who had beaten religion into her six kids, was NOT nice!

I thought religion was supposed to make you a better person, SILLY ME, many of the 'born agains' I knew during my childhood were definitely not good people! But as many of them believed in the once 'saved' always 'saved' dogma they thought they were going to heaven whatever they did thereafter! Quite a number cheated on their partners, including a very close family member. Some of them were not honest in their business dealings either!

So you do believe that the messenger takes priority over the message.

If my childhood had been secular it would have been much better.

Are you saying if you had been brought up secular that you'd be more open to receiving the message of the Gospel?

Of course I have met some very decent Christians in my 65 years including our three daughters, but most are very moderate in their beliefs, not dogmatic and have a live and let live approach.

I am of the opinion that it is the sort of person you are which counts, not the faith you espouse.

You know the bible. So you know what James said about faith and works. Though closer in line with what you believe, but does not support yours or the position of those who abused you in your childhood.

19. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. James 2:20-26

This is sad because you as a child were neither ready nor armed with His Word or in a position of authority to refute what was clearly not scripturally founded. It has affected you so, that you still carry it with you these many years later. This is the battle that many here at TJ attempt to help many with. You are not the only one, who has been so abused. Many have come to understand, that confusing the message that is being presented, rightly. Need not be reflective of the sinful messenger. Now, you can as your children see. That the message and who it speaks of is what is important here. Not the faulty presenter. I truly pray that you will find it in your heart to set aside what was done to you and open up to what the message is saying to you.
C4E
<><

 

[Waggles]

Anyone can be forgiven for not believing he exists as there is no verifiable evidence to support his existence.

What rubbish...
Jesus himself said explicitly:
Gospel of Mark 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

This is still happening today with hundreds of thousands of people around the world being born again in water baptism and baptism of the
Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in new tongues [a spiritual language = praying in the Spirit].
Lepers are healed. Blind people regain their sight. The crippled and deformed are healed. Violent criminals become righteous people.
Drug addicts and alcoholics, etc. are set free instantly from their addictions. People enjoy their new relationship with their Lord and Saviour,
Jesus Christ, and continue to be blessed through much answered prayer, provision and blessing, healings and miracles.

Pentecost as written and testified to throughout the Book of Acts is still alive and available today.

http://miracles.areonthe.net/TESTIM...IMONY Posters/Ann Timi, Port Moresby, PNG.pdf

http://miracles.areonthe.net/TESTIM...MONY Posters/Carol G, Adelaide, Australia.pdf

 

[amadeus2]

I suppose everyone has their own experiences of life and draw their own conclusions. I am now 65 and have never been presented with any verifiable evidence that any deity exists, or that Jesus was resurrected. Of course I could be wrong, but I don't believe in taking out 'fire insurance' just in case I am, I think that would be hypocritical.

I am 72 and have had God verify for me His existence through the many years of my walk with Him, but it all started on real faith as defined by scripture. I understand that what has been verified for me is not acceptable to an unbeliever or even to some believers.

The starting point with God is belief without externally verifiable (using the scientific method or such like) evidence because that is the way He wanted it be for His reasons. If you believe that there is no God, why are you even here?

Live your life as you will for God has allowed that, but don't expect mercy if things should turn sour for you. As Jesus told the Pharisees who lived to obtain the glory of men, "they have their reward". Likewise you have yours in the here and now, but it would be a very poor reward indeed if this is all that there is.

There really is something better, even in the here and now, but again if you have not interest in pursuing even that possibility, why are you here on this forum?

 

[Ophel]

I am of the opinion that if a god existed it should make its presence irrefutable not a matter of faith. Anyone can be forgiven for not believing he exists as there is no verifiable evidence to support his existence.

God proves Himself to those who choose Jesus by faith.

.

 

[Bluecheese]

Well my experience of religion/faith, whatever you want to call it, was extremely unpleasant. It is no wonder I don't think any god or afterlife actually exists.

 

[Christ4Ever]

Well my experience of religion/faith, whatever you want to call it, was extremely unpleasant. It is no wonder I don't think any god or afterlife actually exists.

This is sad because you as a child were neither ready nor armed with His Word or in a position of authority to refute what was clearly not scripturally founded. It has affected you so, that you still carry it with you these many years later. This is the battle that many here at TJ attempt to help many with. You are not the only one, who has been so abused. Many have come to understand, that confusing the message that is being presented, rightly. Need not be reflective of the sinful messenger. Now, you can as your children see. That the message and who it speaks of is what is important here. Not the faulty presenter. I truly pray that you will find it in your heart to set aside what was done to you and open up to what the message is saying to you.

The first step was His on the Cross. The adversary has had his turn as well, as evidence by your horrific childhood experiences. Now with all that being said. Are you willing to see what the Gospel is saying with a new heart, mind, and spirit? If you desire so. I will pray for you and I'm sure others here will do so as well. Difficult after so many years, but not impossible. No not impossible.
With the Love of Christ Jesus.
C4E
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