Where do Christians go when they 'die'?

[PloughBoy]

hello ploughboy can i ask you .....
i have my kjv bible and a nlt study bible( dont use this often just on my bookshelf) what would you reccommend i buy as a second bible to read alongside kjv also with what dictionary ect but in simple steps for me . you mention a lot of resources in above post so any wisdom and guidance for a good start greatly recieved .
also guilty of reading footnotes as guidance to hard passages of scripture. i have always Loved reading spurgeon .tozar and matthew henry
your thoughts
many thanks and God bless x

I would think it would be proper in a time such as this. Reason, these times are so very strange. And we need to stay close together in such "Assemblies" as "TalkJesus" where we are surrounded by learned believers who are engage and skilled in the Word of God.
So in answering your question concerning "Biblical Materials" Bibles, Translations, and etc...... By your questions I would recommend "BibleHub" website, and play with it. Throughout the years i have view many sites. I will not explain; get to know "Biblehub" and you will see what i mean.

Matthew 10:1 And calling His twelve disciples to Him, Jesus gave them authority over unclean spirits, so that they could drive them out and heal every disease and sickness.
get to know it. it has everything you need.

PS just click on the highlighted green and scroll all the way down on your the site of bible hub all the way pass advertising . and play with it. have fun. so you can get a general idea just take your time. sometimes you might take a hour on one verse by looking at words and meanings

By my observation just by viewing the many Translations and Paraphrases listed for a certain verse, you can come to meaning of the text, certainly of the flavor of the "Original Manuscript" text. and the other materials are for those who are interested.

 

[Sue D.]

Thank you brother, that is how I see this also. It doesn't make sense.

And as brother B-A-C's puts it, we are lifted up to be with the Lord in the air... then what? Where do we do then?

Bless you brother

Still the concept of rapture makes no sense. Why ever would it be good to zoom off to heaven at the precise moment that Jesus returns to earth to reign in glory?

In response to the second post -- got the 1st one by mistake.

That is the reason why a post-trib rapture Doesn't make sense. And Jesus Christ is the one who is going to do the 'zooming' us up to meet Him in the air. So it's not the concept of the rapture itself -- it Is the Timing of it. Pre -- before makes more sense. Or Maybe the mid-trib rapture -- but That's a Big maybe. Because Then the saints up to 'that's' point will be together in heaven for the marriage supper of the Lamb. AND Then -- Jesus Christ will return to this earth in person with the saints to reign with Him for the next 1,000 yrs. Who / how many will be left here --only God the Father knows. But there Will be those 1,000 yrs to grow up and reproduce and populate this earth again. in a peaceful manner.

 

[B-A-C]

That's a Big maybe. Because Then the saints up to 'that's' point will be together in heaven for the marriage supper of the Lamb. AND Then -- Jesus Christ will return to this earth in person with the saints to reign with Him for the next 1,000 yrs.

I'm not saying your wrong.. but just curious.. where is the scripture to support this? Why do you think the wedding feast will be "before" the millennial reign?

 

[Hekuran]

In response to the second post -- got the 1st one by mistake.

That is the reason why a post-trib rapture Doesn't make sense. And Jesus Christ is the one who is going to do the 'zooming' us up to meet Him in the air. So it's not the concept of the rapture itself -- it Is the Timing of it. Pre -- before makes more sense. Or Maybe the mid-trib rapture -- but That's a Big maybe. Because Then the saints up to 'that's' point will be together in heaven for the marriage supper of the Lamb. AND Then -- Jesus Christ will return to this earth in person with the saints to reign with Him for the next 1,000 yrs. Who / how many will be left here --only God the Father knows. But there Will be those 1,000 yrs to grow up and reproduce and populate this earth again. in a peaceful manner.

It sounds confused and bizzare. Why not just believe what the Bible teaches without trying to bolt a rapture incident onto it?

There's nothing, anywhere in the Bible about us being taken off to heaven. I can't understand how it has got so deeply embedded in people's beliefs.

 

[B-A-C]

But there Will be those 1,000 yrs to grow up and reproduce and populate this earth again. in a peaceful manner.

Well Jesus will be ruling "with a rod of iron" during this time whatever that means. Also at the end of the 1,000 years, Satan is let lose and gathers up a huge army (numbered like the sand of the seashore)
to fight the saints again. So it won't be entirely peaceful.

 

[Brother-Paul]

In response to the second post -- got the 1st one by mistake.

That is the reason why a post-trib rapture Doesn't make sense. And Jesus Christ is the one who is going to do the 'zooming' us up to meet Him in the air. So it's not the concept of the rapture itself -- it Is the Timing of it. Pre -- before makes more sense. Or Maybe the mid-trib rapture -- but That's a Big maybe. Because Then the saints up to 'that's' point will be together in heaven for the marriage supper of the Lamb. AND Then -- Jesus Christ will return to this earth in person with the saints to reign with Him for the next 1,000 yrs. Who / how many will be left here --only God the Father knows. But there Will be those 1,000 yrs to grow up and reproduce and populate this earth again. in a peaceful manner.

Greetings Sue

I am not saying what I put was right, just supplied for discussion but it does flow with scriptural events predicted, scripture was provided to confirm this.

To me, it seems more possible than pretrib, all the arguments I have heard for pretrib are based on the items I stated in the previous post.
God brought the Jews out of Egypt...
God lifted Noah and is family out at the time the world was flooded.
Lot was saved at Sodom and Gomorrah

Although I take the reason you thing this from these scriptures, I do not see any scripture to clearly clarify that pretrib could've an option. The same applies for midtrib.

Can you confirm any scriptures to help us think these are possible. At present I can't, at present these words stand out more... 'the last day'

The 1000 years is the only item that makes me wonder on the timing, but pretrib or midtrib I am doubting as possibilities at this time.

Shalom

 

[PloughBoy]

Well Jesus will be ruling "with a rod of iron" during this time whatever that means. Also at the end of the 1,000 years, Satan is let lose and gathers up a huge army (numbered like the sand of the seashore)
to fight the saints again. So it won't be entirely peaceful.

That is a "Iron Scepter" a Scepter is a item o f "Authority" you have seen them before. when a queen or King has that long piece in their hand sometimes they have two one in each hand and one is a Symbol of Authority "The Scepter" and Christ will be of "IRON " Strong,. Power, Sovereignty Royalty"

 

[Brother-Paul]

It sounds confused and bizzare. Why not just believe what the Bible teaches without trying to bolt a rapture incident onto it?

There's nothing, anywhere in the Bible about us being taken off to heaven. I can't understand how it has got so deeply embedded in people's beliefs.

I would think the idea started with the RCC, Peter sranding at the Pearly Gate checking people into the heavenly city. A bit like the other false beliefs, those saved will be sat on clouds strumming harps,to be sat on clouds playing harps they would be in the first heaven, the air from earth to the edge of our atmosphere! It's Crazy yet people believe these lies.

For years it has been (wrongly) preached that we go to heaven when we die, false stories to believers who know no better, false stories to those greiving the loss of a loved one, including the lie they have gone to heaven, and that God has created a place in heaven for them, a mansion! Yet the person died is a lost soul! Lie upon lie, from the master of lies satan himself, the deceiver of souls.

 

[Sue D.]

@Brother-Paul -- well -- not everything got it's start with the RCC. They Do have a lot of false beliefs. Wow -- I don't know Where the cartoon thing about Peter standing at the pearly gates came from. Probably the good works concept.

Well --it Is true that Jesus Christ Is preparing a place for believers in heaven John 14:1-6. Any funeral I've gone to --the message of salvation has been presented. Would you Rather that a preacher would preach a 'fireie gates of hell' sermon at a funeral?! I Could see a pastor sitting down with the family as a result of an accident or fatal illness or whatever and attempting to share salvation with them. I could see the pastor sitting down in the ER trying to comfort the loved ones -- back years ago when my father-in-law passed away -- he'd had friends but had the mouth of a nasty sailor. The hospital chaplain simply said that he'd made his peace with God before dying. I , personally, highly doubt it. I Might be surprised to see hi m in heaven someday. But I kind of doubt it. My husband was actually performing some of the service. What he Did was present a sweet plan of salvation to every one there. There was no point in lambasting anyone - especially a dead person. A funeral is supposed to be a gentle saying good bye.

Now - for a Believer -- it can be a time of rejoicing. They, after all Are with their Savior.

@ B.-A-C -- Jesus Christ will be ruling with righteous justice. He will be the authority figure.

 

[Dave M]

But where do they go.. after they are taken up?

when they are taken up they are changed in a twinkle of eye, and they are with the Lord always so that suggest that they return to earth to rule with Christ,,, so they dont go anywhere other then in the clouds get new glorified bodies and return to earth to start the 1000 year rule

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.

when it says we shall not all sleep that means we shall not all die, those left after the tribulation who have not died will be cought up in the clouds and changed meaning receive there glorified bodied. IMO First thos who have already died get there gloriifed bodies then we follow, just my thoughts on it.

 

[Sue D.]

@Dave M -- that Is what Scripture says.

 

[Nicola Jane]

No where in the Bible does it say we, humans, go to heaven.

When we die our body goes back to the earth, the spirit of the born again believers go to heaven.

In the beginning God came down into the Garden of Eden, we are told that He walked in the garden in the cool of the day. God was with man on earth at this time.

Then through Adam's sin God cursed the earth and returned back to heaven, the third heaven, which is His abode.

God sent His one and only son to earth... God with us Emmanuel

Matthew 1:22-25 (NKJV)
22 So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying:
23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."
24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife,
25 and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.

But Jesus has to go back to heaven to be with the Father

John 16:5-12 (NKJV)
5 "But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, 'Where are You going?'
6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart.
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you.
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more;
11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
12 I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now.

And He ascended as he said he would, but He will come again as we know...

Acts 1:9-11 (NKJV)
9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel,
11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."

Until Christ returns all saved souls, those born from above, are ambassadors for Christ, we have His work to do until he 'Returns in Glory'

2 Corinthians 5:17-21 (NKJV)
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
18 Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
19 that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God.
21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Christ who is in heaven with the Father, will Return for His own, those born from above. He will descent from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with 'the trumpet call of God'

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 (NKJV)
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

This brings us to brother B-A-C's comments, we meet with the Lord in the air, then where do we go?

The answer I think, just sharing my thoughts, love to hear everey one else's thought on this, 'it depends when the Rapture occurs'

But we are told clearly...
v17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

If at this point we will always be with the Lord, surely this sounds like everything is done that is said to be done. The last day!

In many verses in John 6, Jesus says "I will raise them up at the last day".

John 6:39 (NKJV)
This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.

John 6:40 (NKJV)
And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:44 (NKJV)
No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54 (NKJV)
Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24 (NKJV)
Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

So could it be, we are raised up on the last day, to be with Christ in the air, at the point the heaven and earth is made new and the 'New Jerusalem' comes down from heaven onto the earth, just as John saw it and was told to write it down. We at that point enter the New Jerusalem for the banquet and are with the Lord forever.

I do believe when Jesus said he was going to create a place for us (born again believers) these rooms/mansions will be in the New Jerusalem, possibly around the internal perimeter as every room will be looking at the throne in the middle of the New Jerusalem, the Holy City. On earth!

John 14:1-3 (NKJV)
1 "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.
2 In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

No where in the Bible does it say we go to heaven, if someone can show me I would love to read it, the Bible always refers to 'God with us'.

God created earth for man, God wants to be with man on earth, Emmanuel God with us, first in the Garden of Eden, second when Christ came to earth, third when he returns and we will be with him forever.

Just trying to add together what we know so far, please add your thoughts also. Together we are the Body of Christ, the ekklesia, we will all come together to be with our Lord in this wonderful New Jerusalem, we will all be neighbours, closer neighbours than we are now.

absolutely fabulous cant wait but much work to be done in the meantime souls to be saved the great commission we are all so blessed x just my little bit x

 

[B-A-C]

when it says we shall not all sleep that means we shall not all die, those left after the tribulation who have not died will be caught up in the clouds and changed meaning receive there glorified bodied. IMO First thos who have already died get there gloriifed bodies then we follow, just my thoughts on it.

That is an interesting passage. It has come up in at least 3 other threads this week. Hmmmm...

1Cor 15:50; Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
1Cor 15:51; Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed,
1Cor 15:52; in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1Cor 15:53; For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.

It's possible you are right, I don't know. I have some thoughts about this as well (what else is new ).
But if I am right... (and I might not be)... then it's very hard to say there won't be some event (like a rapture).

Usually in type of context.. we will not all "sleep"... means we will not all die. Most of the time "sleep" means "die" in the New testament. I can give dozens of examples for this, if anyone wants references.
So of course there are 'dead saints' (not spiritually dead, just physically dead). One day "the last" trumpet will sound... and the "dead" (dead saints in Christ) will be raised.
But not everyone will be dead. There will still be saints who are alive when this trumpet sounds. We won't all "be asleep" (dead) when this last trumpet sounds.
But those are are dead... (in Christ) will rise first. Then those of us who are alive when the trumpet sounds will.... "be changed".

Some event... call it what ever you want.. a rapture, a second coming, the transformation... but something will happen to us at that moment. We will be changed. (in the twinkling of an eye)
We will become immortal at that moment. The dead will be "imperishable" (unable to perish, unable to die).. but it seems they aren't imperishable until that moment (heck, they are already dead).
The resurrection will happen at that moment.

Once this happens, we can't die anymore.

1Cor 15:54; But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.
1Cor 15:55; "O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR VICTORY? O DEATH, WHERE IS YOUR STING?

Luke 20:35; but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage;
Luke 20:36; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

This isn't saying we become angels... it says we will become "like" angels in the sense that we can't die anymore.

1Thes 4:15; For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Thes 4:16; For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Thes 4:17; Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.

This is one of those passages where "sleep" means "dead".
But again.. some of us won't "sleep" (be dead).. some us will be alive when Jesus comes back. Now is this the second coming, or is it a temporay rapture, I don't know.
But either way... we will be caught up together with the dead (who were "asleep") "in the clouds" even if it's just for a few minutes or so.

John 5:28; "Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
John 5:29; and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

The tricky part of all this comes in.... (Rev 20:5-6; ) where it says the "first" resurrection, happens "just before" the millennial reign. That's a hard one for many people.

 

[B-A-C]

I know '@Dave M' has brought this up before... but for some reason it gets passed over. He has a good point here.

Matt 24:40; Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left.
Matt 24:41; "Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left.
Luke 17:34; "I tell you, on that night there will be two in one bed; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luke 17:35; "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left.
Luke 17:36; ["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]

You and your neighbor/spouse/friend/co-worker/relative/ are sitting in a coffee shop having coffee. And suddenly *poof* (in the twinkling of an eye)...
you are taken. You are gone... you both were there... and now one of you is "gone"... where did you go? You didn't remain where you were.
You were"taken". Taken 'WHERE'? Now maybe this is just temporary, and you will be returned to the earth in a minute or two...
But the fact remains.. some were "taken" somewhere... somewhere else that they weren't before this moment.. (in the clouds?)

 

[PloughBoy]

let us remember when using biblical words. If you mean a tribulation period, specify which tribulation period. It will make it easier on the reader. For "The great Tribulation" is different from all the other tribulation period. we live now in a "Tribulation" period. but not "Jacob's trouble" nor "the Great Tribulation" the bible makes these events through out "Holy Scripture" and we have given them names so we can identify these events. so there is no confusion. You also have the "tribulation period of the fall of Jerusalem 70 AD. It will take time for some to get this, but it is worth it, especially it you want people to understand the direction you are coming from. Shalom. is the spirit of Love. Let try to make it easy to share with one another for we are the body of Christ.

 

[B-A-C]

Both period are 3 1/2 years, and they will be very close together. Like 7 years total. But the Bible says the 'rapture' won't happen until 'the man of perdition' (the beast) is revealed.
Does anyone know who the beast is? I'm sure we all have an idea.. but will we all agree on it? I think not. I think when the beast is revealed, we will all know who he is.

2Thes 2:1; Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him,
2Thes 2:2; that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
2Thes 2:3; Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
2Thes 2:4; who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.
2Thes 2:5; Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?
2Thes 2:6; And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed.
2Thes 2:7; For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.
2Thes 2:8; Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;
2Thes 2:9; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,
2Thes 2:10; and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.

If you have someone in mind, it may not be who you think.
I am old, but not so old I was alive when World War II was happening. At the time many Christians (amazingly even some Orthodox Jews) thought Hitler was the beast.
My parents and grand-parents were alive at that time. I've heard this from first-hand accounts.

 

[Nicola Jane]

I would think it would be proper in a time such as this. Reason, these times are so very strange. And we need to stay close together in such "Assemblies" as "TalkJesus" where we are surrounded by learned believers who are engage and skilled in the Word of God.
So in answering your question concerning "Biblical Materials" Bibles, Translations, and etc...... By your questions I would recommend "BibleHub" website, and play with it. Throughout the years i have view many sites. I will not explain; get to know "Biblehub" and you will see what i mean.

Matthew 10:1 And calling His twelve disciples to Him, Jesus gave them authority over unclean spirits, so that they could drive them out and heal every disease and sickness.
get to know it. it has everything you need.

PS just click on the highlighted green and scroll all the way down on your the site of bible hub all the way pass advertising . and play with it. have fun. so you can get a general idea just take your time. sometimes you might take a hour on one verse by looking at words and meanings

By my observation just by viewing the many Translations and Paraphrases listed for a certain verse, you can come to meaning of the text, certainly of the flavor of the "Original Manuscript" text. and the other materials are for those who are interested.

so very helpfull ive clicked green link and see what your saying .thats made it very simple for me which is perfect
appreciate it. Thankyou and
God bless you x very much !

 

[B-A-C]

That is a "Iron Scepter" a Scepter is a item o f "Authority" you have seen them before. when a queen or King has that long piece in their hand sometimes they have two one in each hand and one is a Symbol of Authority "The Scepter" and Christ will be of "IRON " Strong,. Power, Sovereignty Royalty"

I think I agree with this.. but it will be more than just a symbol.

Rev 2:27; And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Rev 12:5; And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 19:15; And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

When I read things like "broken to shivers" and "winepress, fierceness of God". It seems to me this will not be pleasant for some people. If everyone submitted why would they need to be "broken" or "shattered".

Psa 2:9; Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

 

[Butch5]

Isa 40:22; It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Actually, I was mistaken, It is Isaiah 65. Here is the passage I was referring to.

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.1
18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.
19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.1
23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.
24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. (Isa. 65:17-25 KJV)

Here God says He creates new heavens and new earth. He says, "I create Jerusalem a rejoicing" He's speaking of a new Jerusalem. However, we can see from the text that it is actually a renewed Jerusalem. In verse 19 God says through Isaiah, "the voice of weeping shall no more be heard in her". The implication here is that weeping is heard in her prior to this event. This would indicate that this new Jerusalem is actually the one that exists now. Also, we see this concept from Peter.

19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:19-21 KJV)

Here Peter says that Christ must remain in Heaven until the restitution of all things. Then we have the passage in Revelation.

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (Rev. 21:1-5 KJV)

Notice that God said He makes all things new. He didn't say He makes all new things. This would indicate that God is renewing all things. Also notice the similarities between this passage and that from Isaiah. A new heaven and new earth. A new Jerusalem. God wipes away all tears, no more weeping heard in her. They shall build houses, God shall dwell with men. It seems these two passages are referring to the same thing.

 

[Butch5]

I think we're getting two events and two places confused.

The New Jerusalem is the future place that we refer to as eternal life in heaven. God will be bringing That down from heaven at the very end of time. Revelation 21. Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. The, I , John, saw the Holy City, New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

This event is different than anything else.

Brother-Paul just summed it up fairly well. And, honestly -- there are some things we Don't Need to know all the specifics of. We trust Christ as our Savior in the here and now -- as believers -- when we die -- our physical body will be buried or cemated or whatever happens to cause our physical death. We / our spirit/ will be with Christ. As believers -- the Holy Spirit stays within us until we are safe with Jesus Christ. Where ever He is -- we will be with Him. Upon the happening of the Rapture of the Church ( body of believers) -- no one except the Father knows when that will happen -- in that instant of time both the dead believers and the living believers will get snatched up and out of this world. We will be with Jesus Christ. The marriage supper of the Lamb will be taking place in heaven and the wrath of God will descend upon those left in this world. Then the next event will be the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ to this earth for His 1,000 yr reign when satan will be in the abyss and not able to interfere with anyone or anything And then satan is loosed again for a short time. Some more - final confrontation between good and evil. Good obviously wins. Great White Throne judgement. People thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone. Eternity begins for them and New Jerusalem is brought down and Our eternity begins.

The mission for born-again believers is to share the Gospel of salvation NOW while people alive still have opportunity to hear and accept or reject.

I'm not getting anything confused. Revelation is a book full of symbolism. The passage in Revelation 21 is very similar to Isaiah 65.