Who Is The Old Man?

[Wired 4 Fishen]

I use scripture to confirm my point and disprove your use of scripture. Then you continue to give your opinion and not scripture after being proven wrong. Use scripture to debate, not your opinion. There's plenty of scripture to use.

I will not use scripture to debate anything with you.

You are using scripture from an intellectual point of view. You are taking words at face value just as one does when reading the encyclopedia.

You then insist what I say is only opinions compared to your use of scripture.

So you go ahead and enjoy that ride and I ask that you stop quoting me.
You win... Lol your right. You are always correct.

Blessings and Love in Christ

 

[regibassman57]

@Dave, @Wired 4 Fishen,

@regibassman57 you have openly admitted you do wrong, whear do you think those wrong things come from???? they come from the flesh brother, certainly not the spirit. This applies to me and everyone on earth. so please dont think this is a personal attack nothing but love for people in the body of Christ,
peace

Dave, how many times have you told me do not to reply to you and you will do the same? How many times? twice… The reason I post the scriptures for you read is because I didn’t write them. You are not telling me I’m wrong.

Brother your getting in the flesh. You believe your view is correct so you accuse me of not having good understanding.
This means you place your view above which is a fleshly act in itself.
Blessings

The reason I tell you you don’t understand is because out of all your post, 16 to be exact, you have presented a maximum of “1” post that used scripture. And the verse number you used to prove me wrong (as is your purpose is) was incorrect. You said “Romans 9:8” and the verse is actually “Romans 8:9.” Out of 14 different commentaries you still used a scripture which had no foundation even with the commentaries and other scriptures I used. Dovegiven is wise and I believe since you are not bringing scripture we can end this. If you bring scripture wonderful, but if not I conclude you don’t know. The reason I conclude you don’t know is your post below say, “you are not controlled by your sinful nature;” but you confess you sin I personally am dead to the sinful nature.

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Romans 9:8

But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God Living in you.

Big point here is you are not controlled by, that is if you have learned to walk in the Spirit.

As to the rest....it is easy to understand. If a believer needs to repent and ask some one to forgive them.....its because they got in the flesh first.

 

[regibassman57]

I will not use scripture to debate anything with you.

You are using scripture from an intellectual point of view. You are taking words at face value just as one does when reading the encyclopedia.

You then insist what I say is only opinions compared to your use of scripture.

So you go ahead and enjoy that ride and I ask that you stop quoting me.
You win... Lol your right. You are always correct.

Blessings and Love in Christ

OK... But i'm not always correct.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

@Dave, @Wired 4 Fishen,



Dave, how many times have you told me do not to reply to you and you will do the same? How many times? twice… The reason I post the scriptures for you read is because I didn’t write them. You are not telling me I’m wrong.



The reason I tell you you don’t understand is because out of all your post, 16 to be exact, you have presented a maximum of “1” post that used scripture. And the verse number you used to prove me wrong (as is your purpose is) was incorrect. You said “Romans 9:8” and the verse is actually “Romans 8:9.” Out of 14 different commentaries you still used a scripture which had no foundation even with the commentaries and other scriptures I used. Dovegiven is wise and I believe since you are not bringing scripture we can end this. If you bring scripture wonderful, but if not I conclude you don’t know. The reason I conclude you don’t know is your post below say, “you are not controlled by your sinful nature;” but you confess you sin :smile: I personally am dead to the sinful nature.

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Its called a typo
I had to use a small phone
I have commented on the scripture you use.

You simply do not get it.
Just because you present so many scriptures to prove your point and yet your understanding is not sound, you prove nothing.

You argue about a believer getting into the flesh and yet you fail to grasp that all these rude comments are out of your flesh.

Have a wonderful time

 

[regibassman57]

@Wired 4 Fishen,

Its called a typo

I had to use a small phone

I have commented on the scripture you use.

You simply do not get it.

Just because you present so many scriptures to prove your point and yet your understanding is not sound, you prove nothing.

You argue about a believer getting into the flesh and yet you fail to grasp that all these rude comments are out of your flesh.

Have a wonderful time

What comment do you believe was rude to you? If I tells you why you are wrong, you are being blessed. I think the worst thing I said to you was you were blind. But I also explained why I told you that.

Yes... I give you alot of scripture because they speak for me. If I've said anything wrong, you can post the scriptures I use back at me - and if you understand my errors, you would pin-point it and show me where I'm wrong. But you should not use your opinion because they have no foundation scripturally.

For instance:
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

To me it's not difficult to read God's word if you say what it says without opinions. It speaks for itself. Below God's word speaks for itself, but I added how I understand it.

Jam 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? “so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.”

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

I ask you… do these scriptures confirm, through the mystery of Godliness, that a believer cannot live in two natures?

Rom 11:24 For if thou were “cut out of the olive tree” which is wild by nature, and wert “graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree” …

This tells us a believer has been “cut out” of the old olive tree (the old nature). The old olive tree is the sinful nature. Notice the scripture say, “WILD BY NATURE” a believer has been “CUT” out of it.

Where have I gone wrong for letting scripture speak for me? What have I said wrong? And if I’m wrong please correct me in my use of scriptures.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

If I tells you why you are wrong, you are being blessed.

Brother that statement to be true would mean you are seeing yourself as one who is above all.

Yes... I give you alot of scripture because they speak for me. If I've said anything wrong, you can post the scriptures I use back at me - and if you understand my errors, you would pin-point it and show me where I'm wrong. But you should not use your opinion because they have no foundation scripturally.

There lies the problem.
You pick out scriptures in which you "think" backs what you believe.

So far Brother you have shown me intellectual meaning to the Scriptures you post.

We are to gain understanding of what is written. When that is shared with you , quickly you claim it to be opinions and void it as wrong.

This happens because you seek intellect over Spiritual Understanding. This is why you look up words in Greek etc and that still shows little.

Why? Because you can look up the anthological meanings of every word and make what's being said to say something its not.

You harp on post Scriptures to say this or that and prove this or that. Why? You will just claim they say something they don't.

Scriptures are not meant to be used as Debate Tools - They Are To Be Understood And Put Into Practice.

I said all this to be an honest and loving reply. I am not judging you but I am responding to what you have said.

Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

Blessings and Love in Christ

 

[B-A-C]

For instance:
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

To me it's not difficult to read God's word if you say what it says without opinions. It speaks for itself. Below God's word speaks for itself, but I added how I understand it.

Jam 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? “so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.”

Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

I ask you… do these scriptures confirm, through the mystery of Godliness, that a believer cannot live in two natures?

Rom 11:24 For if thou were “cut out of the olive tree” which is wild by nature, and wert “graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree” …

This tells us a believer has been “cut out” of the old olive tree (the old nature). The old olive tree is the sinful nature. Notice the scripture say, “WILD BY NATURE” a believer has been “CUT” out of it.

Where have I gone wrong for letting scripture speak for me? What have I said wrong? And if I’m wrong please correct me in my use of scriptures.

Dying to the flesh, is not a one time thing.

Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

1 Cor 15:31; I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

It's an "everyday" thing.

Being born of an incorruptible seed doesn't mean we can't/don't sin. It means even if we do sin, we don't have to conform back to sinful living. We have power over sin now.

You have turned Romans 11:24 into the complete opposite of the context it is on.

Rom 11:17; But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18; do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19; You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22; Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:23; And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24; For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Yes, we were grafted in... (because of FAITH)
They were broken off.. (because of UNBELIEF)
You apparently don't know much about tree grafting. If I cut off a branch from a pear tree, and graft it into an apple tree, do you think that branch will start bearing apples?
No it still bears pears. The difference is, it no longer has a pear tree root. We ourselves don't support the root, the root (Jesus) supports us.
We can't corrupt that root, He remains the kind of root He is, no matter what the branches do.
If you graft a pear branch onto an apple tree, does the trunk suddenly turn into a pear tree trunk? Does the type of branch attached to it change what kind of roots it has?
No, the branch can't corrupt the root.

 

[regibassman57]

@Wired4Fishen,

Brother that statement to be true would mean you are seeing yourself as one who is above all.

It doesn't make me above all, it makes me loving. If I show a brother where their wrong, that makes me loving towards them; because I've shown a brother the error of his ways by correcting him. But not by my opinion, but through what scripture teaches. this is what I've been saying on this forum. If I'm wrong, point it out through scripture and not opinion. Show me based on the scripture I use where I am using it incorrectly.

There lies the problem.
You pick out scriptures in which you "think" backs what you believe.
So far Brother you have shown me intellectual meaning to the Scriptures you post.
We are to gain understanding of what is written. When that is shared with you , quickly you claim it to be opinions and void it as wrong.

Since I first started this thread you have posted "one" scriptural verse that was incorrect. I showed you through other verses using other commentaries writers. Everything I write, I learn from the studies of other men. This is why I give Greek definitions and many scriptures. I didn't use my intellect to write the bible or the thoughts of the commentators. I read what they say and meditate on it and God gives me the thorough understanding. I've asked you to give scriptural understanding but you choose not to. You say don't debate. Paul did with the Bereans, but I'm sure he wasn't saying, "you're never wrong," - No... Paul was giving scripture and proving his point without anger saying, don't reply to me anymore as is through frustration.

This happens because you seek intellect over Spiritual Understanding. This is why you look up words in Greek etc and that still shows little.

Why? Because you can look up the anthological meanings of every word and make what's being said to say something its not.

You harp on post Scriptures to say this or that and prove this or that. Why? You will just claim they say something they don't. .

The difference is I will give you scripture and show you where your errors are. I will show you where you got it wrong so you can learn.

Scriptures are not meant to be used as Debate Tools - They Are To Be Understood And Put Into Practice.

Talk to Paul about that with the Bereans. People on this forum should stop justifying their emotional anger because I study and put in use what I do study. It's not heard to prove a person wrong in God's word... You let God's word speak for itself. If it's taken out of context, it will speak for itself.

I said all this to be an honest and loving reply. I am not judging you but I am responding to what you have said.

It's not a loving reply because if you were that loving to me, you would have gotten as many scriptures as you could to show me where I went wrong; as I've asked; and stop givin me your opinion.

Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
Blessings and Love in Christ

Wisdom is gain through scripture; God's word.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Have I taken that verse out of context?

REPROVE ME THROUGH SCRIPTURE PLEASE!

 

[regibassman57]

@B-A-C,

Dying to the flesh, is not a one time thing.

Luke 9:23; And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.

1 Cor 15:31; I affirm, brethren, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

It's an "everyday" thing.

We daily fight to die to Satan's influence, (which i've never said we don't still fight); which are the temptations he brings. We have already died once with Christ.

Question to you - what has scripture told us we have died to with Christ? If I have died with Christ, why are you saying I'm still alive to it?

Being born of an incorruptible seed doesn't mean we can't/don't sin. It means even if we do sin, we don't have to conform back to sinful living. We have power over sin now.

If you had power over sin you, would confess that you could be perfect in this life over sin. But you say contrary to the statement of faith. You say believers still sin, therefore, you don't have power or dominion over sin (in your mind) because you don't even believe can take the victory over the devil where sin is concerned in this life. But this is not about the topic of sin so I don't want to get to involved.

You have turned Romans 11:24 into the complete opposite of the context it is on.

Rom 11:17; But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,
Rom 11:18; do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.
Rom 11:19; You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in."
Rom 11:20; Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
Rom 11:21; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Rom 11:22; Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
Rom 11:23; And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
Rom 11:24; For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

Yes, we were grafted in... (because of FAITH)
They were broken off.. (because of UNBELIEF)
You apparently don't know much about tree grafting. If I cut off a branch from a pear tree, and graft it into an apple tree, do you think that branch will start bearing apples?
No it still bears pears. The difference is, it no longer has a pear tree root. We ourselves don't support the root, the root (Jesus) supports us.
We can't corrupt that root, He remains the kind of root He is, no matter what the branches do.
If you graft a pear branch onto an apple tree, does the trunk suddenly turn into a pear tree trunk? Does the type of branch attached to it change what kind of roots it has?
No, the branch can't corrupt the root.

That makes no sense at all.
You don't apparently know much about God's word.

Romans 2:28
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Colossians 2:11
In whom also you (believers) are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the "sins" of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Romans 9:8
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

It's not a loving reply because if you were that loving to me, you would have gotten as many scriptures as you could to show me where I went wrong; as I've asked; and stop givin me your opinion.

Its only an opinion because you refuse to understand the truth.

There is no point on continuing.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

REPROVE

No one can because you give new meaning to Scripture thus denying truth

 

[regibassman57]

@Wired 4 Fishen,

Its only an opinion because you refuse to understand the truth.

There is no point on continuing.

How can an opinion be truth "without" the foundation of scripture, from which the opinion is supposedly taken from, be confirmed? You can say anything - which would make me a fool to believe without evidence. We're talking about life.

 

[regibassman57]

@Wired 4 Fishen,

No one can because you give new meaning to Scripture thus denying truth

If you search the scriptures, and truly believed God's is saying I'm wrong through His word, I can't fight against God because this is not a game. The Pharisees told Jesus He had a devil because they didn't know the scriptures. We know they knew it a little - given their position in leadership. The problem was they were seeing God's word without faith. This means they were walking in the flesh. This is why they killed Jesus. Don't be mad at me. Get the scripture and present Righteous facts and show me, not tell me, but show me through scripture where I'm wrong.

 

[Bendito]

Old man is the old nature.
Dead to the old man?
Now that depends on how much of Gods Word we have in us AND how much we actually put into practice.

We need to crucify the flesh daily or rather at all times.
Blessings

Good! Putting off the old nature, the old man, and putting on Gods nature which we now have, the mind of Christ, the nature of God.

 

[Bendito]

@Wired 4 Fishen,


To be honest, you didn't answer the question as scripture teaches. It seems you answered the question through your interpretation of what seems to make sense. I was looking for what scripture teaches about believers being "dead to the nature." I'm sure it doesn't teach a believer is dead to the "nature" based on how much word he or she has in them. No disrespect. I believe we need to "die" daily as Paul teaches, but I don't believe we crucify the flesh daily. I believe our flesh was crucified "once" with Christ. As far as dying to self, we die to the devil's offerings daily, by saying no and resting his emotional temptations.

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man "IS"crucified with Christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin/Satan.

I agree the power over us has been broken, but the "old nature" or the "old man" is not in us and we are not in the old nature. A man is either "IN" Christ or "IN" Adam. No man can be alive to both nature. Believers died to the "old nature" when we were grafted "out" of it at the time of our conversion. At which time Christ gave us a new heart.

Galatians 2:20
I "AM" crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The key word in this verse is "faith." We as believers are in a body of flesh naturally, but not alive spiritually in it. A believer's life is in Christ which is in God (Col. 3:3).We don't live by our sense of understanding in the world if we are dead or not. Our faith is only based on what God's word says about us according to the principles laid down for us by Christ. Every believer died with Christ. Your old man is not passed away because of anything you have done, but everything Christ has done for you. Remember, our fight is not with ourselves, but we fight against spiritual wickedness. We are telling the devil to flee.

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man "IS"crucified with Christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin/Satan. The old man is crucified....That makes him dead..

Galatians 2:20
I "AM" crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Hmmm That means "I" am dead and now I'm alive with the anointed One and His anointing alive in me! Cool! The old me (the old man) is dead, and I can now learn to walk in my new nature...The nature of God. So far Wired 4 Fishen has not contradicted scripture. He's right.

 

[Bendito]

Greetings Again Brother,
Actually the old nature is always in you. It can not be taken out but it can be kept silent or close to being silent.

If we took you out back and slammed your hand in the car door, we will quickly see how dead that old man really is.

Blessings

LOLOL Car doors! Indeed! Actually the old man can be removed and replaced with the nature of God... One can only have one nature...We, you are transitioning from one to the other. If you stand in a boat you'll go someplace but if you stand in two boats......splash. Get rid of one boat. Right?

 

[Dovegiven]

All people born again have been appointed by God to occupy a new position in His kingdom. Each of us is positionally placed from the first day of being a new creature in Christ, as kings and holy priests. The present active position is membership in the holy eternal Priesthood, over which our Great High Priest Jesus reigns.

I have studied the stories of princes and kings, most of whom were failures by judgment of their own acts, but it could not be refused they had title to the position by birth, marriage, adoption, seizure, or decree of the people to be governed. I have read of some failures of followers of Christ in the Bible, and that their position in Christ was rarely lost by their poor choices.

It must be understood that no toddler born a prince can be a suitable governor. A young boy aged 9 can't be expected to occupy a throne and issue wisdom from it. Neither can a babe in Christ rule with authority even over his or her own life with great confidence in himself or among those ministered to. As young in the Lord we enjoy the excitement of acceptance by God, but will eventually learn we must learn the ropes of the position. None of it comes naturally.

I liken it the Prince and the Pauper story in a sense. The pauper boy was a temporary replacement of the prince, but was ignorant of what a prince is raised up to be. But it is all best to heed the following whole-heartedly, and please read it all the way through:
1 Peter 2:1-25 (KJV)
1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4 To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.
19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

 

[Dovegiven]

Retiring for the day return your mind to your called position in God's kingdom. Pray to be a stronger king and holy priest of it. Always refer back to your position in Christ, forgetting what you once were, working to learn more toward His excellence, giving my utmost for His highest.

 

[Dave M]

None of it comes naturally.

Brother Dove
why is that non of it comes naturally? it seems some think once we are born again we never sin, we are living in the spirit at all times, the temptations of the flesh are no longer a temptation. Perhaps you could elaborate on this.

thanks

 

[regibassman57]

@Bendito,

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man "IS"crucified with Christ, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin/Satan. The old man is crucified....That makes him dead..

The old man in ths context is the sinful nature. "knowing" - having the knowledge that the old man "IS" dead. If the old man "IS" dead, it is not alive to sin. The new man is in the body of Christ where there is no sin. I just thought I'd still write the scripture. But it seems you are making my point.

Galatians 2:20
I "AM" crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Hmmm That means "I" am dead and now I'm alive with the anointed One and His anointing alive in me! Cool! The old me (the old man) is dead, and I can now learn to walk in my new nature...The nature of God. So far Wired 4 Fishen has not contradicted scripture. He's right.

I must have missed something because I've been consistently battered because the people has been saying we are still alive in the flesh. I've been saying we are dead to the flesh so either I'm tired, or God is blessing.