Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[Brightfame52]

Justification in Christ the Lord has been promised to only one people ,seed and not all without exception Isa 45:25

In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

 

[Brightfame52]

Rom 5:16 clearly indicates Justification by Grace before Faith notice:

And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

And not as what resulted through one man having sinned is the given-gift. For the judgment is from one trespass, resulting-in a verdict-of-condemnation; but the grace-gift is from many trespasses, resulting in a verdict-of-righteous. DLNT

16 And not as it was by one sin, so also is the gift. For judgment indeed was by one unto condemnation; but grace is of many offences, unto justification.

The backdrop of this Justification is after many sins, not faith or believing.

The word Justification here in Rom 5:16 is dikaiōma and means:

a judicial decision, sentence

1. of God
   1. either the favourable judgment by which he acquits man and declares them acceptable to Him

This Judicial decision of Justification is through the act of Jesus Christ alone ! 33

 

[Brightfame52]

Those Christ died for are Justified from sin before Faith because Faith is given as a result and an evidence that Christ put away their sins, hence Justifying them. We see this by Paul's words written to the Corinthians here 1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

So the point is, since Christ was raised up, that shows you aren't in your sins, Christ having put them away before Gods law and Justice, therefore Faith is given to give realization of that before your mind and heart Heb 11:1.

See Jesus was raised again because of our Justification if He was delivered to Justice because of our sins Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Since Christ was raised, our God given Faith isn't in vain, that we are are not in our sins ! Not being in our sins is connected and resultive to the fact that Christ was raised after having put our sins away , and not connected or resultive with our faith !

 

[KingJ]

God Justifieth the ungodly.

That is God justifies His Chosen Ones, while they are enemies, and wicked by nature and habit Eph 2:2-3


Theres a coupl of reasons for this #1 is because all their wickedness and ungodliness by habit and nature has been imputed or laid to charge upon Christ Isa 53:6

God Justifieth the ungodly.

That is God justifies His Chosen Ones, while they are enemies, and wicked by nature and habit Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.


Theres a couple of reasons for this #1 is because all their wickedness and ungodliness by habit and nature has been imputed or laid to charge upon Christ Isa 53:6

6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on m the iniquity of us all.

You are reading "the elect only" into the text rather than drawing it from the text.

Ephesians 2:2-3 simply teaches that believers were once sinners, children of wrath, and lived according to the flesh before coming to Christ. Every Christian agrees with that.

Likewise, Isaiah 53:6 teaches that Christ bore sin:

"All we like sheep have gone astray..."

Notice the universal language. The verse does not say "the elect only have gone astray." Nor does it say "the Lord laid on Him the iniquity of the elect only."

You are assuming that conclusion.

Romans 5:6 says:
"For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly."

The question is: Who are the ungodly?

Scripture repeatedly describes the whole world as ungodly apart from Christ.

Romans 3:23:
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God."

Romans 3:10:
"There is none righteous, no, not one."

So yes, God justifies the ungodly. The gospel message is that sinners can be justified through faith in Christ.

But Romans 4:5 does not say:
"God justifies the elect only."

It says:
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

The condition Paul mentions is faith, not a secret prior election.

You are taking verses that describe how sinners are saved and turning them into proof that Christ only died for a pre-selected group. The verses themselves never make that argument.

 

[KingJ]

And another reason why the elect ungodly are justified before God while by nature children of wrath as others, walking in habitual wickedness and enmity towards God, is because not only has their wickedness been charged to Christ, but in addition Christs perfect law keeping obedience has made them righteous. Christs righteousness has been imputed to them Rom 4:6

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous[by imputation]. 30

You keep making an assertion that the text itself never makes.

I agree that righteousness is imputed apart from works. Romans 4:6 clearly teaches that.

I agree that Christ's obedience is the basis upon which sinners are made righteous. Romans 5:19 teaches that as well.

The issue is that neither verse says "elect only."

You are assuming your conclusion and then reading it back into the text.

Romans 4 is actually about faith:

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." (Romans 4:5)

Paul's emphasis is not election but faith.

Likewise Romans 5:19 says:

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

The question is: Who are the "many"?

You assume it means a fixed number of eternally elected individuals. But the text itself never says that.

In fact, only a few verses earlier Paul writes:

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." (Romans 5:18)

The provision of Christ's work is presented broadly, not narrowly.

The real problem with your argument is that every verse becomes "the elect" even when the verse never mentions election.

You are not proving election from the text. You are assuming election and then inserting it into the text.

 

[KingJ]

Rom 5:16 clearly indicates Justification by Grace before Faith notice:

And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

And not as what resulted through one man having sinned is the given-gift. For the judgment is from one trespass, resulting-in a verdict-of-condemnation; but the grace-gift is from many trespasses, resulting in a verdict-of-righteous. DLNT

16 And not as it was by one sin, so also is the gift. For judgment indeed was by one unto condemnation; but grace is of many offences, unto justification.

The backdrop of this Justification is after many sins, not faith or believing.

The word Justification here in Rom 5:16 is dikaiōma and means:

a judicial decision, sentence

1. of God
   1. either the favourable judgment by which he acquits man and declares them acceptable to Him

This Judicial decision of Justification is through the act of Jesus Christ alone ! 33

You are conflating two different questions:

1. What is the basis of justification?
2. How is justification received?

The basis of justification is unquestionably Christ's work alone. No Christian disputes that.

But Romans does not conclude from that fact that people are justified apart from faith.

In fact, Paul repeatedly says justification is through faith:

Romans 3:28
"Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law."

Romans 5:1
"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Galatians 2:16
"A man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ."

Your argument from Romans 5:16 fails because the verse is explaining the source of justification, not the means by which individuals receive it.

The verse contrasts Adam's offense with Christ's gracious gift. It does not say people are justified before believing.

In fact, just a few verses later Paul says:

Romans 5:17
"They which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ."

Notice the word "receive."

Paul does not say everyone was automatically justified. He speaks of those who receive the gift.

And Romans 5:1 completely destroys the idea that justification occurs before faith:

"Therefore being justified by faith..."

If Paul believed people were already justified before believing, that statement would make no sense.

You keep taking verses that explain the grounds of justification (Christ's obedience) and then using them to deny the very thing Paul repeatedly says elsewhere: that justification is by faith.

 

[KingJ]

Those Christ died for are Justified from sin before Faith because Faith is given as a result and an evidence that Christ put away their sins, hence Justifying them. We see this by Paul's words written to the Corinthians here 1 Cor 15:17

17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

So the point is, since Christ was raised up, that shows you aren't in your sins, Christ having put them away before Gods law and Justice, therefore Faith is given to give realization of that before your mind and heart Heb 11:1.

See Jesus was raised again because of our Justification if He was delivered to Justice because of our sins Rom 4:25

25 Who was delivered for[because of] our offences, and was raised again for[because of] our justification.

Since Christ was raised, our God given Faith isn't in vain, that we are are not in our sins ! Not being in our sins is connected and resultive to the fact that Christ was raised after having put our sins away , and not connected or resultive with our faith !

You are again conflating Christ accomplishing salvation with individuals receiving its benefits.

No Christian disputes that Christ's death and resurrection are the basis of our justification.

The problem is that you are taking verses about the accomplishment of redemption and using them to deny Paul's repeated statements that justification is by faith.

1 Corinthians 15:17 does not say people are justified before faith.

Paul's point is that if Christ had not been raised, faith would be useless because Christ's saving work would have failed.

The verse says nothing about the timing of justification.

Likewise Romans 4:25 says Christ was raised because of our justification. It explains the connection between Christ's resurrection and justification, but it does not say people are justified before they believe.

In fact, the very same chapter says:

Romans 4:5
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."

Romans 4:24
"But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead."

Notice Paul does not say righteousness is imputed before believing.

He says it shall be imputed "if we believe."

Then Paul immediately continues:

Romans 5:1
"Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."

Your interpretation creates a contradiction.

Paul says:

• righteousness is imputed if we believe,
• we are justified by faith,
• faith is counted for righteousness.

Yet you keep claiming justification occurs before faith.

The verses you cite prove that Christ accomplished everything necessary for justification. They do not prove that individuals are justified apart from faith.

You are importing that conclusion into the text rather than getting it from the text.

 

[KingJ]

@Brightfame52

Here is a link to a college that provides online reading lessons - Client Challenge

 

[Brightfame52]

You are reading "the elect only" into the text rather than drawing it from the text.

It can only be the elect Eph 1:4

 

[Brightfame52]

The issue is that neither verse says "elect only."

Dont have to, its goes without saying.

 

[Brightfame52]

But Romans does not conclude from that fact that people are justified apart from faith.

It does. The elect were Justified by the blood of Christ apart from Faith Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him

 

[Brightfame52]

No Christian disputes that Christ's death and resurrection are the basis of our justification.

The resurrection oof Christ is a testification that the elect He died for have been Justified