Who Justifieth the Ungodly

[Brightfame52]

@Brightfame52

The Terror of Standing Before God as a False Teacher

Thats what you need to be concerned with

 

[Brightfame52]

To be Justified by Faith,

Thats is when a Justified person comes into a spiritual apprehension/knowledge and enjoyment of the Justification and reconciliation which Christ has wrought for us to God, so by Faith we come to know Spiritually that God is our God, and we are in His favor . Our Faith didn't cause that, but reveals and receives that. 40

 

[KingJ]

To be Justified by Faith,

Thats is when a Justified person comes into a spiritual apprehension/knowledge and enjoyment of the Justification and reconciliation which Christ has wrought for us to God, so by Faith we come to know Spiritually that God is our God, and we are in His favor . Our Faith didn't cause that, but reveals and receives that. 40

You've simply redefined "justified by faith."

The Bible never says justification by faith means becoming aware of a justification that already existed. That's your theological definition, not the biblical one. (The Terror of Standing Before God as a False Teacher)

Romans 5:1 doesn't say, "Therefore, realizing we were already justified..." It says, "Therefore being justified by faith..."

Likewise, Acts 13:39 says, "By him all that believe are justified," not "By him all that believe discover they were already justified."

You're asking me to accept your definition first, then read it back into every passage on justification. Can you provide one verse that defines "justified by faith" as merely becoming aware of a justification that already existed?

 

[KingJ]

Yes it does, I utilized the scripture, i cant help it if you cant receive it.

No, it doesn't.

Quoting Scripture does not automatically prove your interpretation of Scripture. Every false teacher quotes Scripture. The question is whether the passage actually teaches what you claim.

I've repeatedly asked you for one verse that says a person is justified before believing. Instead, you keep quoting passages about election, promise, and heirship, then concluding they teach justification before faith.

That's an inference, not an explicit statement. (The Terror of Standing Before God as a False Teacher)

If your doctrine is biblical, then there should be at least one passage that plainly says people are justified before they believe. Can you produce one?

 

[Brightfame52]

We receive Justification by Faith when Gods sentence of Justification He has for us because of the blood of Christ shed for us, when that sentence terminates in our sanctified hearts and minds, which persuades us to believe in Jesus Christ. So we receive Justification by the effectual persuasion of our minds and hearts to believe in Jesus for what He has already accomplished. Read what Paul says here 1 Thess 1:5

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

The word assurance is the greek word plērophoria:

1. full assurance, most certain confidence,
   • to be persuaded, persuaded, fully convinced or assured

So to be Justified by Faith is when we have been persuaded that God Justifed us on the basis of Christs blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him 40

 

[KingJ]

We receive Justification by Faith when Gods sentence of Justification He has for us because of the blood of Christ shed for us, when that sentence terminates in our sanctified hearts and minds, which persuades us to believe in Jesus Christ. So we receive Justification by the effectual persuasion of our minds and hearts to believe in Jesus for what He has already accomplished. Read what Paul says here 1 Thess 1:5

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

The word assurance is the greek word plērophoria:

1. full assurance, most certain confidence,
   • to be persuaded, persuaded, fully convinced or assured

So to be Justified by Faith is when we have been persuaded that God Justifed us on the basis of Christs blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him 40

BF, you're still assuming the very thing you're trying to prove.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 says the gospel came in power, in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance. It says nothing about people already being justified before they believed.

Likewise, Romans 5:9 says we are justified by Christ's blood. Amen. But the question is not what grounds our justification. The question is when we are justified.

Romans 5:1 says, "Therefore being justified by faith..." Acts 13:39 says, "by him all that believe are justified." Neither passage says faith is merely discovering a justification that already existed.

You keep defining "justified by faith" as becoming persuaded that you were already justified. Can you provide a verse that actually defines it that way?

Because so far you've shown that Christ's blood is the basis of justification and that believers can have assurance. Neither of those proves that people were justified before they believed.

The Terror of Standing Before God as a False Teacher

 

[Brightfame52]

BF, you're still assuming the very thing you're trying to prove.

1 Thessalonians 1:5 says the gospel came in power, in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance. It says nothing about people already being justified before they believed.

Likewise, Romans 5:9 says we are justified by Christ's blood. Amen. But the question is not what grounds our justification. The question is when we are justified.

Romans 5:1 says, "Therefore being justified by faith..." Acts 13:39 says, "by him all that believe are justified." Neither passage says faith is merely discovering a justification that already existed.

You keep defining "justified by faith" as becoming persuaded that you were already justified. Can you provide a verse that actually defines it that way?

Because so far you've shown that Christ's blood is the basis of justification and that believers can have assurance. Neither of those proves that people were justified before they believed.

The Terror of Standing Before God as a False Teacher

Ive been over all that with you already.

 

[Brightfame52]

Justification before God is before Faith/Believing because non imputation of sin is before Faith/Believing. 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Now how does this equate to Justification ? Because Non imputation of sin is equivalent to imputation of righteousness.

How so ? Paul in Rom 4:6 borrowed from David back in Ps 32 and Paul wrote

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Because David wrote Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Now here is Davids version Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Notice David says nothing about " God imputeth righteousness without works" However the Holy Spirit interpret what David means through Paul, that the non imputing of sin equates to the imputation of righteousness without works.

So God was in Christ performing the non imputation of sin for a world of people, before they believed. Hence they were Justified by Christs Righteousness before they believed. 40

 

[KingJ]

Justification before God is before Faith/Believing because non imputation of sin is before Faith/Believing. 2 Cor 5:19

19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Now how does this equate to Justification ? Because Non imputation of sin is equivalent to imputation of righteousness.

How so ? Paul in Rom 4:6 borrowed from David back in Ps 32 and Paul wrote

6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Because David wrote Rom 4:7-8

7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Now here is Davids version Ps 32:1-2

Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the Lord imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

Notice David says nothing about " God imputeth righteousness without works" However the Holy Spirit interpret what David means through Paul, that the non imputing of sin equates to the imputation of righteousness without works.

So God was in Christ performing the non imputation of sin for a world of people, before they believed. Hence they were Justified by Christs Righteousness before they believed. 40

Once again, you've smuggled your conclusion into the passage.

Yes, Romans 4 equates the non-imputation of sin with the imputation of righteousness. I agree.

What it does not say is that either occurred before faith.

In fact, Paul's entire argument in Romans 3–5 is that this righteousness is received through faith (Romans 3:22, 3:28, 4:5, 5:1).

You keep quoting verses that explain what justification is, then inserting when it happened without the passage ever saying so.

2 Corinthians 5:19 also doesn't say the world was already justified before believing. Paul immediately follows it by pleading, "Be ye reconciled to God" (v. 20). If everyone he had in mind was already legally justified, that appeal would make no sense.

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Calvinism portrays God as monstrously evil because it teaches that He favours a select few while withholding saving grace from the rest. Scripture is crystal clear that God is no respecter of persons.

Deut 4:2, Deut 13:1–5, Deut 18:20–22, Josh 1:7, Prov 30:5–6, Isa 8:20, Jer 23:16, Jer 23:25–32, Ezek 13:1–16, Matt 7:15–20, Matt 15:9, Matt 24:11, Matt 24:24, Mark 7:7–13, Acts 20:28–31, Rom 16:17–18, 2 Cor 2:17, 2 Cor 4:2, 2 Cor 11:13–15, Gal 1:6–9, Eph 4:14, Phil 3:2, Col 2:8, 1 Tim 1:3–7, 1 Tim 4:1–3, 1 Tim 6:3–5, 2 Tim 2:15–18, 2 Tim 3:13–17, 2 Tim 4:2–4, Titus 1:9–16, Heb 13:9, James 3:1, 2 Pet 2:1–3, 2 Pet 2:12–22, 1 John 2:18–27, 1 John 4:1–6, 2 John 7–11, Jude 3–4, Jude 12–19, Rev 2:2, Rev 2:14–16, Rev 2:20–24, Rev 3:9, Rev 22:18–19

The Terror of Standing Before God as a False Teacher

 

[Brightfame52]

Once again, you've smuggled your conclusion into the passage.

No I extracted out what's there. Those who Christ died for God doesnt impute their sins and at the same time, He imputes them with righteousness, which righteousness Justifies them. these was before they were born. hence b4 Faith