I know why I think we go to heaven, it's because of what scripture says, but ultimately we are going to end up in resurrected bodies on a Redeemed earth
But let us examine what Jesus said about where he was going, and they could not follow. I think we agree Jesus was going to heaven I think we agree that what he was saying.
John 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. You will seek me, and just as I said to the Jews, so now I also say to you, ‘Where I am going you cannot come.’
But at we read a little father down we Jesus saying that Peter will follow afterwards. Maybe he was talking about the cross? Maybe heaven let look farther.
John 13:36 Simon Peter said to him, “Lord, where are you going?” Jesus answered him, “Where I am going you cannot follow me now, but you will follow afterward.”
Jesus is coming again to take us to his fathers house, he has prepared a place for someone?? is not his fathers house in heaven?
John 14:2- In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
That is my point of view from reading scripture on my own, not from a church, the main point really is not if we are going to heaven that is going to be temporary, we are getting new resurrected bodies, and will dwell on a un cursed earth. Earth is our destination under Jesus rule.
I could be wrong about the whole thing, who knows, always find Butches post well written and respectful,just do not agree on this. But I do understand his take on people opting for church doctrine over scripture, I grew up in the Catholic church, and those people take what ever the priest say as truth, and never pick up the Bible themselves. At one time the Catholic church completely discouraged reading the bible. So I get wear Butch is coming from, we may not agree but at least we can both go to the scripture and not rely on what we have been told.
Hi Dave! This isn't the point of my thread but let me give some food for thought. Let me toss out another way to understand those passages. Jesus told Peter that he could not follow Him now but would follow Him later. How can we understand this. The first point I would raise is that when Jesus told the disciples they could not follow Him, He said, that as He told the Jews they could not follow Him where He was going neither could the disciples. So, He equates the two. So, if the disciples could follow later, then so could the unbelieving Jews. But that doesn't work. The second point I would submit is, what did Jesus mean when He told Peter he could not follow now but would later? What does Jesus mean by follow Me?
43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him,
Follow me. King James Version, Jn 1:43.
21 And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. 22 But Jesus said unto him,
Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead. King James Version, Mt 8:20–22.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they
follow me: King James Version, Jn 10:26–27.
In these passages Jesus had more in mind than just changing location when He told them to "follow Me." Peter had been "following" Jesus for 3 1/2 years at this point. Jesus was going away and Peter wouldn't be able to "follow" Him has he had for 3 1/2 years. However, Jesus was coming back and when He does Peter will "follow" Him again. Notice the last part of 14:2. He will come back so that where He is they may be also. He coming back so that they can be where He is. If they were going to Heaven, it wouldn't be necessary for Him to come back of them. They would simply go there when they died. I would also ask how the disciples would understand Jesus' statement about "My Father's house?"
12 After this he went down to Capernaum, he, and his mother, and his brethren, and his disciples: and they continued there not many days. 13 And the Jews’ passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, 14 And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: 15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables; 16 And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence;
make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise. 17 And
his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.
The Holy Bible: King James Version, Jn 2:12–17.
The disciples understood, "My Father's house" as the temple, not Heaven. The many rooms that Jesus spoke of in John 14:2 are rooms in the Temple where the priests stayed during the time of their service. These are described in Ezekiel 42.
Then he brought me forth into the utter court, the way toward the north: and he brought me into the chamber that was over against the separate place, and which was before the building toward the north. 2 Before the length of an hundred cubits was the north door, and the breadth was fifty cubits. 3 Over against the twenty cubits which were for the inner court, and over against the pavement which was for the utter court, was gallery against gallery in three stories. 4 And before the chambers was a walk of ten cubits breadth inward, a way of one cubit; and their doors toward the north. 5 Now the upper chambers were shorter: for the galleries were higher than these, than the lower, and than the middlemost of the building. 6 For they were in three stories, but had not pillars as the pillars of the courts: therefore the building was straitened more than the lowest and the middlemost from the ground. 7 And the wall that was without over against the chambers, toward the utter court on the forepart of the chambers, the length thereof was fifty cubits. 8 For the length of the chambers that were in the utter court was fifty cubits: and, lo, before the temple were an hundred cubits. 9 And from under these chambers was sthe entry on the east side, as one goeth into them from the utter court. 10 The chambers were in the thickness of the wall of the court toward the east, over against the separate place, and over against the building. 11 And the way before them was like the appearance of the chambers which were toward the north, as long as they, and as broad as they: and all their goings out were both according to their fashions, and according to their doors. 12 And according to the doors of the chambers that were toward the south was a door in the head of the way, even the way directly before the wall toward the east, as one entereth into them.
13 Then said he unto me, The north chambers and the south chambers, which are before the separate place, they be holy chambers, where the priests that approach unto the LORD shall eat the most holy things: there shall they lay the most holy things, and the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering; for the place is holy. King Jame, Eze 42:1–13.
Jesus was going to prepare a place for them, why? He mentioned the many rooms. The rooms were for the priests. Why would He prepare these rooms for the disciples?
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. King James Version, Re 5:8–10.
He's preparing a place for them because they are going to serve as priests. Remember, John saw the Holy City descending from Heaven.
Some food for thought!
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