Why does God send people to hell?

[Rxlx]

I really wish I could understand your logic and reasoning after reading that whole scripture passage that Rhema just posted. There is nothing in that scripture passage that agrees with you.

Scripture clearly states that Satan is a liar. And if Satan is sitting there telling us that he is the ruler of the world, well guess what he's a liar. And it says multiple times in the scripture that God the Father created everything for his son Jesus.

So I can't see how you come up with the idea that Satan is the controller or overseer of this world (i.e. ruler)

You and Rhema praise your hero Satan by calling Jesus a liar - and liars get thrown into the symbolic lake of fire on Judgment Day.
Liars are so abominable that GOD told the angel that appeared to John to emphasise it twice!
Revelation 21: 27; And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 22: 15; For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

I have quoted plenty of Bible verses that show Satan has ruled the world since he successfully tempted Eve and is still ruling the world until Jesus returns.

You and all like you lack the gifts of holy spirit offered in 1 Corinthians 12
7; But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8; For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11; But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

I was granted the gifts of wisdom, knowledge, faith, prophecy, discernment of spirits when I became a Christian after many years of GOD calling me and me resisting.

I don't have a gift of healing but have had ailments healed by Christians. I don't speak in tongues or interpet them though we now have so many pagan migrants in England that I could perhaps do with a full repertoire! I am joking as my attempts to tell Muslims they need Jesus have met with open hostility to which I replied with Matthew 10:14.

Perhaps my greatest gift is modesty?

 

[Garee]

You mean you lack the understanding?
Seek the gift of wisdom, knowldege and discernment from holy spirit.
Matthew 28 clearly says Satan rules Earth aided by faithful slaves like you!

LOL And slaves like you?

What kind of wisdom? Earthly inspired?

Earthly of false apostles they that add and subtract from sola scriptura. The cause of the fall.

Satan the father of lies preaching false prophecy. adding four words "neither shall you touch" .

Therefore, opening up his armories of lies, false prophecy, The lust of the flesh. Lust of the flesh drew them to the center the hidden tree of life in that parable. Seeing it the lust of the eyes as false power it took over touching, they ate and died.

They should of never put their hand in the cookie jar. Children look but do not touch. Touching then it's no cookies

The two building blocks of false pride. Why give your support to the god of this world the god of lust. What the promise?

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

 

[complete]

I really wish I could understand your logic and reasoning after reading that whole scripture passage that Rhema just posted. There is nothing in that scripture passage that agrees with you.​

​

Scripture clearly states that Satan is a liar. And if Satan is sitting there telling us that he is the ruler of the world, well guess what he's a liar. And it says multiple times in the scripture that God the Father created everything for his son Jesus.​

​

So I can't see how you come up with the idea that Satan is the controller or overseer of this world (i.e. ruler)​

'But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord;
and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.'
(2Cor 4:3-5)

'Again, the devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain,
and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
And saith unto Him,
All these things will I give Thee,
if Thou wilt fall down and worship me.'
(Mat 4:8-9)

'Hereafter I will not talk much with you:
for the prince of this world cometh,
and hath nothing in Me.'
(Joh 14:30)

'Nevertheless I tell you the truth;
It is expedient for you that I go away:
for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you;
but if I depart, I will send Him unto you.
And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Of sin, because they believe not on Me;
Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see Me no more;
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth:
for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak:
and He will shew you things to come.
He shall glorify Me: for He shall receive of Mine, and shall shew it unto you.
All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I,
that He shall take of Mine, and shall shew it unto you.'
(Joh 16:7-15)

 

[complete]

The Bible says that God created hell for Satan and the wicked angels who rebelled against Him, but there are people in hell also (Matthew 25:41). Both angelic beings and human beings are in hell for the same reason, sin (Romans 6:23).

You are wrong, @Chad.

With respect, rather than quote another source, do your own study of the word 'Hell and it's usage', taking into consideration the root meaning of the middle English word 'Hell', and ignoring the influence of Greek Philosophy and subsequent usage which has superimposed a meaning upon it which is foreign to Scripture itself.

Hell means 'to hide away' or 'the place of the dead', and refers to 'the grave', or as in the case of the word 'Gehenna', which is one of the words so translated, it refers to the fires of end time judgement where the unbelieving dead will be cast, following final judgement. 'The place of the dead', which 'the grave' also is, where the dead body is hidden from sight and becomes subject to corruption.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

'And I say unto you my friends,
Be not afraid of them that kill the body,
and after that have no more that they can do.
But I will forewarn you Whom ye shall fear:
Fear Him, which after He hath killed
hath power to cast into hell; - (the fires of Gehenna - following end-time judgement)
yea, I say unto you, Fear Him.'
(Luke 12:4-5)

'And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven,
having the everlasting gospel to preach
unto them that dwell on the earth,
and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Saying with a loud voice,
Fear God, and give glory to Him;
for the hour of His judgment is come:
and worship Him
that made heaven, and earth,
and the sea, and the fountains of waters.'
(Rev 14:6-7)

 

[Rhema]

And it says multiple times in the scripture that God the Father created everything for his son Jesus.

Just to note, there are a few scriptures that say Jesus created everything himself. ??? This might be an interesting topic for a new thread, but it sure would kick the ant's nest.

So I can't see how you come up with the idea that Satan is the controller or overseer of this world (i.e. ruler)

The typical proof text is:

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​

- 2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV

But Paul had no problem using the name Satan, and did so three times even in this epistle. The referent "god of this world" means the Roman Emperor, as I've extensively posted before. Maybe I should gather my brief posts and start a thread.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

We incinerate dead cows,

Actually we don't. When flesh is incinerated it becomes useless. Cow carcasses are typically ground up and fed to cows as feed. That's why the term "grass fed beef" became important.

 

[Rhema]

Perhaps my greatest gift is modesty?

Almost snorted out my coffee. Thank you for that wonderful jest.

I would suggest, thought that you "phone a friend" about that whole Matthew 28 says that God is scared of Satan - a close friend you can trust.

liars get thrown into the symbolic lake of fire

Do we symbolically get thrown? Or are we actually thrown at a symbol?

Just wondering.

I was granted the gifts of wisdom, knowledge, faith, prophecy, discernment of spirits when I became a Christian after many years of GOD calling me and me resisting.

I was granted these when I was 8 - almost 60 years ago. Never resisted once.

I don't have a gift of healing but have had ailments healed by Christians.

That came when I was 14.

I don't speak in tongues or interpet them

And that happened when I was 32. (Although I never raised the dead until I was 51.)

Go figure.

 

[Rhema]

'But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord;
and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.'
(2Cor 4:3-5)

High @complete. Paul was referring to the Roman Emperor. (Guess I'm going to have to put that thread together after all.)

'Again, the devil taketh Him up into an exceeding high mountain,
and sheweth Him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
And saith unto Him,
All these things will I give Thee,
if Thou wilt fall down and worship me.'
(Mat 4:8-9)

And why would you think Satan wasn't lying? Being the Father of lies?

But perchance he was telling the truth. Yet that event took place BEFORE Matthew 28:18. Mat 4 cannot be applied to our current time, or anytime after Matthew 25:18.

The same reasoning applies to your two passages from John. These were spoken before the resurrection, and hence before Matthew 28:18.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Bill]

You and Rhema praise your hero Satan by calling Jesus a liar - and liars get thrown into the symbolic lake of fire on Judgment Day.
Liars are so abominable that GOD told the angel that appeared to John to emphasise it twice!
Revelation 21: 27; And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
Rev 22: 15; For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

I have quoted plenty of Bible verses that show Satan has ruled the world since he successfully tempted Eve and is still ruling the world until Jesus returns.

You and all like you lack the gifts of holy spirit offered in 1 Corinthians 12
7; But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

8; For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

9; To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

10; To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

11; But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

I was granted the gifts of wisdom, knowledge, faith, prophecy, discernment of spirits when I became a Christian after many years of GOD calling me and me resisting.

I don't have a gift of healing but have had ailments healed by Christians. I don't speak in tongues or interpet them though we now have so many pagan migrants in England that I could perhaps do with a full repertoire! I am joking as my attempts to tell Muslims they need Jesus have met with open hostility to which I replied with Matthew 10:14.

Perhaps my greatest gift is modesty?

That is good that you have all those gifts. And modesty yes that is overwhelming I can see.

I know Rhema can also see your modesty along with your humility, that is obvious for all to watch and see right here on Talk Jesus even

Of course I am teasing you because after reading all of your comments before I have to wonder where that has been hiding. LOL

 

[Rxlx]

That is good that you have all those gifts. And modesty yes that is overwhelming I can see.

I know Rhema can also see your modesty along with your humility, that is obvious for all to watch and see right here on Talk Jesus even

Of course I am teasing you because after reading all of your comments before I have to wonder where that has been hiding. LOL

You lack so many gifts you are a disgrace to Christianity but Satan is pleased with you.
Maybe Billy Grahams bloodings washed your sense away?

 

[complete]

Oh @Bill ! That did make me laugh.
You will have to forgive Bill his levity, @Rxlx ,
and me for succumbing to it.
for you did rather set yourself up for a fall there.
May God give you grace to accept it, in love.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris

 

[complete]

Subject Heading:- 'Why Does God send people to hell?

This subject heading does God a disservice, @Chad.

 

[complete]

High @complete. Paul was referring to the Roman Emperor. (Guess I'm going to have to put that thread together after all.)​

​

​

And why would you think Satan wasn't lying? Being the Father of lies?​

​

But perchance he was telling the truth. Yet that event took place BEFORE Matthew 28:18. Mat 4 cannot be applied to our current time, or anytime after Matthew 25:18.​

​

The same reasoning applies to your two passages from John. These were spoken before the resurrection, and hence before Matthew 28:18.​

​

Thanks,​

Rhema

'But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord;
and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.'
(2Cor 4:3-5)

Hello @Rhema, (Ref:- reply #310 & #315)

I do not believe Paul was referring to the Roman Emperor, as you claim: If for no other reason than that the immediate context denies it, with the words, 'the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not'. No human being could blind the minds of the unbelieving as is said concerning this being. See also what is said concerning this being in Ephesians 2:2, referred to as,' the prince of the power of the air': The unbelieving or disobedient are said to, 'walk according to the prince of the power of the air', which is also referred to as, 'a spirit' :-

'And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked
according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:'
(Eph 2:1-2)

* Yes, this is a being that is not human, but spirit, as the context proves. It is the Devil, or Satan, that 'old serpent' that we see at the end in Revelation, and in the garden of Eden, at the beginning.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

High @complete. Paul was referring to the Roman Emperor. (Guess I'm going to have to put that thread together after all.)​

​

​

And why would you think Satan wasn't lying? Being the Father of lies?​

​

But perchance he was telling the truth. Yet that event took place BEFORE Matthew 28:18. Mat 4 cannot be applied to our current time, or anytime after Matthew 25:18.​

​

The same reasoning applies to your two passages from John. These were spoken before the resurrection, and hence before Matthew 28:18.​

​

Thanks,​

Rhema​

'And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto Me in heaven and in earth.'
(Mat 28:18)

Hello @Rhema, (Ref:-reply#304)

Why do you refer to Matthew 4 and the passages from John (14:30 & 16:7-14) and dismiss them on the ground of Matthew 28:18.?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Rhema]

Why do you refer to Matthew 4 and the passages from John (14:30 & 16:7-14) and dismiss them on the ground of Matthew 28:18.?

Didn't things change after the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ? Or was everything just the same? If everything was just the same, then the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ was moot - worthless even.

But Matthew 28:18 was said by Jesus after his Resurrection.

I am amazed at how many believers actually reject these words of Christ.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

No human being could blind the minds of the unbelieving

So Satan comes to each and every individual to convince them individually that the Theory of Evolution is true? Or are they convinced by their very human teachers?

At least the author of Job didn't elevate Satan to the level of a near omnipotent god who could do just whatever he wanted.

Human beings can and do blind the minds of the unbelieving. The Jews trust in their Rabbis (who are human). The Muslim trusts in his Imam (who is human). The Protestants in their pastors and the Catholics in their priests. The Secular world trusts in their scientists (and the mistakes they make).

In the Roman world, the Roman citizens trusted in their Emperor as god.

Paul would have had no problem using the name Satan if he meant Satan. He did so THREE times in Second Corinthians. To the readers of Paul's epistles, the "god of this world" was the Roman Emperor who demanded that all Roman subjects worship in accordance with Roman law, thereby blinding their minds at the threat of torture and execution.

To the reader of Paul, who would have been "the god of this world"? Perhaps my mistake was to omit the sources for my claim that every reader would have known this to be a cunningly veiled reference to the Roman Emperor. So... I provide support here:

"Ultimately the Romans did advance one cult, which took on some of the characteristics of a universal religion and became a political tool in the interest of stability - a symbol of loyally to the state and its rulers. This was, of course, the imperial cult, the worship of the emperor-as-god.​

Augustus was officially deified at his death; this became the standard practice; there were only occasional exceptions, as when Caligula and Domitian in the first century, and Commodus in the second demanded recognition as deity in their lifetimes. The provincial councils made up of upper-class men, gave much attention to the imperial cult; as also did the Augustales, priestly college of freedmen; other priestly colleges included rites to the emperors in their regular observances; and the army made much of it, as in oaths and obervance of birth dates. The imperial cult thus touched the lives of many persons in all the social strata. As in the case of other state cults, the proper observance of its ceremonies became a symbol patriotism, as well as piety."​

- (pgs. 270,271)

Roman Society: A Social, Economic, and Cultural History​

Ideal for a one-semester course in Roman civilization o…

www.goodreads.com

Indeed, the god of this world (the Roman Emperor) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, and the cult of emperor-as-god was ubiquitous in the Roman world by the time of Paul. Augustus reigned as the first Roman emperor from 27 BC until his death in AD 14. The reign of Augustus initiated an imperial cult (Wiki-LINK). Caligula, was Roman emperor from AD 37 until his assassination in AD 41. Domitian was Roman emperor from 81 to 96. The Apostle Paul having a ministry from circa 31–36 AD until his death somewhere between 64 & 68 AD.

Paul's writing came after Jesus declared himself to have all power/authority on heaven AND earth. Surely you don't think that Paul thought Jesus was wrong?

See also what is said concerning this being in Ephesians 2:2, referred to as,' the prince of the power of the air': The unbelieving or disobedient are said to, 'walk according to the prince of the power of the air', which is also referred to as, 'a spirit' :-

I would heartily recommend you do a deep dive into what would be meant as a "power of the air."

Ideas and thoughts are a power of the air, as they hold great power to influence the human spirit of the minds around you. And truth is a spirit? Is it not?

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[complete]

Didn't things change after the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ? Or was everything just the same? If everything was just the same, then the Crucifixion and Resurrection of Christ was moot - worthless even.

But Matthew 28:18 was said by Jesus after his Resurrection.

I am amazed at how many believers actually reject these words of Christ.

Rhema

' And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying,
All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
( Mat 28:18 )

Hello @Rema,

Yes, thank you for responding, I just wanted you to elaborate on what you had said, and you have.

' Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ,
called to be an apostle,
separated unto the gospel of God,
(Which He had promised afore by His prophets in the holy scriptures,)
Concerning His Son Jesus Christ our Lord,
which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
And declared to be the Son of God with power,
according to the spirit of holiness,
by the resurrection from the dead:'
(Rom 1:1-4)

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[complete]

So Satan comes to each and every individual to convince them individually that the Theory of Evolution is true? Or are they convinced by their very human teachers?​

​

At least the author of Job didn't elevate Satan to the level of a near omnipotent god who could do just whatever he wanted.​

​

Human beings can and do blind the minds of the unbelieving. The Jews trust in their Rabbis (who are human). The Muslim trusts in his Imam (who is human). The Protestants in their pastors and the Catholics in their priests. The Secular world trusts in their scientists (and the mistakes they make).​

​

In the Roman world, the Roman citizens trusted in their Emperor as god.​

Paul would have had no problem using the name Satan if he meant Satan. He did so THREE times in Second Corinthians. To the readers of Paul's epistles, the "god of this world" was the Roman Emperor who demanded that all Roman subjects worship in accordance with Roman law, thereby blinding their minds at the threat of torture and execution.​

​

To the reader of Paul, who would have been "the god of this world"? Perhaps my mistake was to omit the sources for my claim that every reader would have known this to be a cunningly veiled reference to the Roman Emperor. So... I provide support here:​

​

"Ultimately the Romans did advance one cult, which took on some of the characteristics of a universal religion and became a political tool in the interest of stability - a symbol of loyally to the state and its rulers. This was, of course, the imperial cult, the worship of the emperor-as-god.​

​

Augustus was officially deified at his death; this became the standard practice; there were only occasional exceptions, as when Caligula and Domitian in the first century, and Commodus in the second demanded recognition as deity in their lifetimes. The provincial councils made up of upper-class men, gave much attention to the imperial cult; as also did the Augustales, priestly college of freedmen; other priestly colleges included rites to the emperors in their regular observances; and the army made much of it, as in oaths and obervance of birth dates. The imperial cult thus touched the lives of many persons in all the social strata. As in the case of other state cults, the proper observance of its ceremonies became a symbol patriotism, as well as piety."​

- (pgs. 270,271)​

Roman Society: A Social, Economic, and Cultural History​

Ideal for a one-semester course in Roman civilization o…​

www.goodreads.com​

Indeed, the god of this world (the Roman Emperor) hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, and the cult of emperor-as-god was ubiquitous in the Roman world by the time of Paul. Augustus reigned as the first Roman emperor from 27 BC until his death in AD 14. The reign of Augustus initiated an imperial cult (Wiki-LINK). Caligula, was Roman emperor from AD 37 until his assassination in AD 41. Domitian was Roman emperor from 81 to 96. The Apostle Paul having a ministry from circa 31–36 AD until his death somewhere between 64 & 68 AD.​

​

Paul's writing came after Jesus declared himself to have all power/authority on heaven AND earth. Surely you don't think that Paul thought Jesus was wrong?​

​

​

I would heartily recommend you do a deep dive into what would be meant as a "power of the air."​

​

Ideas and thoughts are a power of the air, as they hold great power to influence the human spirit of the minds around you. And truth is a spirit? Is it not?​

​

Kindly,​

Rhema​

' And you hath He quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air,
the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past
in the lusts of our flesh,
fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind;
and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.'
(Eph 2:1)

Hello @Rhema, (ref: reply #310 & #315)

Thank you for showing me the source of your understanding concerning the words, the 'god of this world', and I shall certainly 'deep dive into what is meant by the words, the 'power of the air', as you suggest (Eph. 2:1-2).

Yet there is no doubt in my mind that the context surrounding the words, 'the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience,' refers to the enemy of our souls, who, as I said previously is 'the spirit that now worketh' in the unbelieving.

As you intimate, the mind is the battleground. Yet truth as it is written in the word of God, is solid and dependable, the Holy Spirit's sword. with which we are able, by comparing scripture with scripture, to know truth from error. Hence such verses, 'Let the word of God dwell in you richly'

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[MedicBravo]

Same reason as why people who fail a grade in public schools don't go to the next grade. The requirements were not met. There is no summer school as a last attempt to get into Heaven.
God doesn't have human or emotional bias that would bend the rules.

I don't care what the Catholics say. There is NO indication that "Purgatory" exists and is a place.
There is no post-death repentance. No amount of money can sway God into pulling someone out of Hell. The CC has LIED about many things.

The idea you can waste your life away and have some TINY, mortal excuse to "repent" at the end and get into Heaven is insulting.