Why does God send people to hell?

[Rhema]

* This is totally confusing.

It seems we cannot communicate with each other, Rhema, for we do not speak the same language.

Within the love of Christ our Saviour
Chris

I am truly sorry that it has come to this. Please accept my apologies that my words were insufficient to provide an adequate understanding. But I don't see a language problem here, but more one of definitions.

* If that is the question, then I can answer it, but not necessarily provide a scripture as you requested (from the words of the Lord Jesus Christ). You have provided one that you believe is an adequate Scripture, from the Lord's prayer: I did not think of that; but I thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Then again maybe it is semantics, because as I read the above statement, the implication is that you do not believe that which is taught in the Lord's prayer is an adequate answer from Scripture.

We can leave off for now, but I would hope to return to the center here -

Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.​

(Mark 1:14-15 KJV)

If Jesus came preaching the Gospel, then the Gospel is what Jesus preached (and none other).

I do not believe that what Jesus preached (as testified in the gospels) is inadequate to provide salvation (and that God needed Paul to explain things to the Twelve).

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

* Yes, I too asked God to forgive me for my sins.

And that's why your sins were forgiven. Because you asked. That's what Jesus taught.

* That cannot be used as a support text for WHY I was forgiven for my sins, (ie., The question you asked)

Maybe not your's(?), but it is most certainly IS a reason why many have had their sins forgiven. The Father forgives all who ask (pray) in repentance, and this is the Gospel that Jesus, the Son of God, brought to this earth. As a matter of Truth, it is the only reason why one's sins are forgiven.

In Christ (1 Cor. 1:30) the believer has 'pardon' (i.e., deliverance, forgiveness, liberty, remission.), the Lord Jesus Christ having paid the ransom price in full, thereby bringing deliverance and redemption.

A debt can be discharged either by it being forgiven OR by it being paid. Not both. When one pays off a bank mortgage, one cannot say that the bank "forgave" the loan. It did not.

If, on the other hand, a loan is forgiven, it means it has not been paid.

Is this confusion truly because we speak a different "language"?

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Stealing is stealing even if it's a $1.20 loaf of bread.

And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on. There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both.​

- Luke 7:40-42 KJV

So the Mercy of God has a price limit of $1.20 ??

Grace?

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

- John 1:14 KJV

God is not a lawyer, to have law for law's sake:

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:​

- Mark 2:27 KJV

God doesn't have human or emotional bias that would bend the rules.

You mean like compassion? (And mercy?)

It is of the LORD'S mercies that we are not consumed, because his compassions fail not.​

- Lamentations 3:22 KJV

If God didn't "bend the rules" all y'all would dead NOW.

Just a thought,
Rhema

 

[Garee]

God is not a lawyer, to have law for law's sake:

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:- Mark 2:27 KJV

He does not have a philosophical theory called a gospel of Thomas as a oral tradition of mankind for that kind of tradition sake

God's law (sola scriptura) as it is faithfully written by the finger of God. God etched out two tablets written on both sides with no room for oral traditons of mankind like the gospel of Thomas .

Two represent Christ has spoke .The let there be (1#) and it was a good testimony of faith the things not seen(2#)

Both sides New and Old to represent the law and its good testimony the prophets. The book of law of life spoken of in Revelation 22.

Not a book of oral traditons of dying mankind .

Exodus 32:15 And Moses turned, and went down from the mount, and the two tables of the testimony were in his hand: the tables were written on both their sides; on the one side and on the other were they written.

Revelations 22:19;And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Rhema]

He does not have a philosophical theory called a gospel of Thomas as a oral tradition of mankind for that kind of tradition sake

God's law (sola scriptura) as it is faithfully written by the finger of God. God etched out two tablets written on both sides with no room for oral traditons of mankind like the gospel of Thomas .

What is this rant you are on about a book called the Gospel of Thomas.

That has absolutely nothing to do with either me or the Apostle Thomas.

You finally lose your nut?

Whatever is spinning around up inside your head, leave me out of it.

 

[Garee]

What is this rant you are on about a book called the Gospel of Thomas.

That has absolutely nothing to do with either me or the Apostle Thomas.

You finally lose your nut?

Whatever is spinning around up inside your head, leave me out of it.

Sorry I thought you were using it because you deny sola scriptura saying it has no foundation and was made up by Luther .

 

[Rhema]

Sorry I thought you were using it because you deny sola scriptura saying it has no foundation and was made up by Luther .

Garee, where in the Bible does it ever say sola scriptura?

 

[Garee]

Garee, where in the Bible does it ever say sola scriptura?

Thanks, I would offer. the denial of sola scriptura all things written in the law and prophets the reason for the fall in the garden of Eden

No oral traditions. . I heard it through the father's grapevine of dying mankind.

God's book of law etched in stone, two tablets written by the finger of Christ on both sides no room for oral traditions

Sola scriptura or as it is written is used 51 times old as well as new. used to represent the sword of the Spirit

In Mathew 4 at the beginning of the ministry of the Son of man, Jesus working with the Father. Jesus not eaten in 40 days became delusional when the father of lies revealed a lying wonder showing the Son of man Jesus all the kingdom and all the glory without moving one inch. If you are the Christ .Satan has no spiritual understanding (sola scriptura) not subject to the gospel of grace. even using scripture without an understanding. to try and tempt the Father

Three times the father gave words to his apostle Jesu the Son of man as it is written again and again. then the devil struck out. Never saw the faith ball invisible things of God coming

Where in the Bible does it not show as it is written is not the final authority in the spiritual unseen things of Christ.?

Adding to its power as it is written reveals the judgment of the Holy Father not seen against those who do add oral traditions of dying mankind

Acts24:13-14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. ;But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers,(not the legion of fathers called patron sants as if they were God ) believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:.. . . (sola scriptura)

 

[Rhema]

Thanks, I would offer. the denial of sola scriptura all things written in the law and prophets the reason for the fall in the garden of Eden

As is typical, you didn't answer the question. To be honest, I'm not even sure you understand the question, but instead just want to blurt out more of the world salad.

Sola scriptura or as it is written is used 51 times old as well as new. used to represent the sword of the Spirit

Not in Ephesians. The sword of the Spirit in Ephesians is prayer. But you can't see this in these twisted English translations.

Jesus not eaten in 40 days became delusional

Jesus became delusional?

(I have GOT to remember that one.)

Where in the Bible does it not show as it is written is not the final authority in the spiritual unseen things of Christ.?

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.​

- John 16:13 NRSV

You have a good day.

 

[Rhema]

Acts24:13-14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. ;But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers,(not the legion of fathers called patron sants as if they were God ) believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:.. . . (sola scriptura)

I asked you where the actual words "sola scriptura" is written in the Bible, and you had to add in your own words.

Amazing.

 

[MedicBravo]

I asked you where the actual words "sola scriptura" is written in the Bible, and you had to add in your own words.

Amazing.

There are many things in the Bible that aren't "spelled out letter by letter". God gave most people common sense.
The Trinity? In the Bible. Tribulation? In the Bible.
Anyone need more?
Sola Gratia - Saved by Grace alone.
Sola Fide - through Faith alone.
Solus Christus - In Christ alone.
Sola Scriptura - according to Scripture alone.
Soli Deo Gloria - for the glory of God alone.

There are people who argue that "being gay is only a sin in the ONE example given".
God set the human standard with Adam and Eve. Therefore, without spelling it out b/c God doesn't make people stupid, anything NOT the standard is "missing the mark".
Transgenderism wasn't a thing thing but God isn't surprised by anything.

The "argument" that "this or that word isn't in the Bible so God/Jesus" never spoke on it." simply isn't true.

 

[Rhema]

Sola Gratia - Saved by Grace alone.
Sola Fide - through Faith alone.
Solus Christus - In Christ alone.
Sola Scriptura - according to Scripture alone.
Soli Deo Gloria - for the glory of God alone.

All those terms made up by men.

How about Sola Pneuma? (That one can be found in scripture.)

God gave most people common sense.

What a wonderful sense of imagination you have.

The Trinity? In the Bible.

No.... It's not.

Tribulation? In the Bible

Duh...

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.​

- John 16:33 KJV

The "argument" that "this or that word isn't in the Bible so God/Jesus" never spoke on it." simply isn't true.

It lacks common sense to say that Jesus spoke on topics for which there is no written account. How would you know? There's no record of such.

Oh well.

 

[Garee]

As is typical, you didn't answer the question. To be honest, I'm not even sure you understand the question, but instead just want to blurt out more of the world salad.


Not in Ephesians. The sword of the Spirit in Ephesians is prayer. But you can't see this in these twisted English translations.


Jesus became delusional?

(I have GOT to remember that one.)

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.​

- John 16:13 NRSV

You have a good day.

Hi thanks for the reply

Not agreeing with what I offered does not mean I did not offer it.

He will guide you into all the truth as it is written.

Not I heard it through the legion of father's grape vine. . oral traditions of dying mankind (word salad )

The sword of the Spirit is the living word of God it as is it written. . .(not maybe) but again is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hebrew 4:12-13;For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart .Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

It is the faith of Christ's labor of love that works in us to both (the gospel key) reveal His understanding and empower us to do it according to His good pleasure as it is written. It is not orally assumed as a philosophy of dying mankind (word salad.)
Philippians 2:13-14 ;For it is God (Not of our own self) which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputing's:

Again, the daily bread or hidden manna as spiritual food both to will and finish His work that he works in sons of God (Christians)

John 4:33-35;Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

One source of Christ's faith or labor of love as it is written (sola scriptura)

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

 

[MedicBravo]

All those terms made up by men.

How about Sola Pneuma? (That one can be found in scripture.)

What a wonderful sense of imagination you have.


No.... It's not.


Duh...

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.​

- John 16:33 KJV


It lacks common sense to say that Jesus spoke on topics for which there is no written account. How would you know? There's no record of such.

Oh well.

Let's me remind everyone that Rhema is Catholic and most of them think they are the Right ones in Christianity with "Faith and works" being what they believe. Still have been given this "list of works by any Catholic.
I translated those but you did not. Pneuma is a Greek word that in English means "spirit, breath, or unseen force". Which is it Rhema? The next verse shows "the Holy Spirit, Breathe of God, or Spirit of God."
If that's a stab that I don't have common sense, your opinon I don't is just your opinion not a fact.Irrelevant.
Point is, in any language words do not exist as a direct translation so other words are used and even more words in fact. That's in learning the basics of any non-English to English translation.

I've already started to compile the Catholic "Lost Book of Traditions" and there's a LOT.
Jesus himself answered when asked, "Teacher, how do I get to Heaven?"

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6b). No good deeds, no chants, no sacrifices are enough. Only the blood of Jesus has the power to wash away someone’s sins forever.

Most importantly Jesus and the Rich Man:
Mark 10:17-25 -

17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? 18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. 20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. 21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22 And he was sad at that saying and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

23 And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! 24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Most importantly, "take up the cross, and follow me." Note that Jesus' ministry started with "Follow me."
How? Look at what Jesus DID and along with the Ten strive to do what He did.

 

[MedicBravo]

All those terms made up by men.

How about Sola Pneuma? (That one can be found in scripture.)

What a wonderful sense of imagination you have.


No.... It's not.


Duh...

These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.​

- John 16:33 KJV


It lacks common sense to say that Jesus spoke on topics for which there is no written account. How would you know? There's no record of such.

Oh well.

Forgot to note.
There is no record of everything Jesus said nor ANY person at any time in history who was significant.
Jesus experience all of the human feelings and emotions and at one point, many times said, "I'm hungry. I'm thirsty. It's hot today.etc."
Secular it may be the "Pilate's Letter to Cesear" and the fact He was sent to Herod who mocked him and was sent back.
Luke 23:6-12 "6 When Pilate heard this, he asked whether the man was a Galilean. 7 And when he learned that he belonged to Herod's jurisdiction, he sent him over to Herod, who was himself in Jerusalem at that time. 8 When Herod saw Jesus, he was very glad, for he had long desired to see him, because he had heard about him, and he was hoping to see some sign done by him. 9 So he questioned him at some length, but he made no answer. 10 The chief priests and the scribes stood by, vehemently accusing him. 11 And Herod with his soldiers treated him with contempt and mocked him. Then, arraying him in splendid clothing, he sent him back to Pilate. 12 And Herod and Pilate became friends with each other that very day, for before this they had been at enmity with each other."
Here Jesus stayed SILENT.

 

[rstrats]

Every person who disobeys, rejects God, and does not turn from their sins chooses Hell.

And what do they think they are choosing?

 

[KingJ]

Let's me remind everyone that Rhema is Catholic

Ooh, I highly doubt that.

and most of them think they are the Right ones in Christianity with "Faith and works" being what they believe.

Simply not true. You have outliers in every Christian denomination.

Most importantly, "take up the cross, and follow me." Note that Jesus' ministry started with "Follow me."

Exactly what Catholics do.

 

[Rhema]

Not agreeing with what I offered does not mean I did not offer it.

What you "offered" did not answer the question. Rather typical of your posts if I may "offer."

 

[Rhema]

Let's me remind everyone that Rhema is Catholic

"Let's" ???

Let me remind everyone that MB seems to not have a good grasp of language and likely has reading comprehension difficulties in that -

I am NOT a Catholic.

Shall I remind everyone that you're a JW ??

There is no record of everything Jesus said

But there IS a record of things he did say. It seems that you would like to toss all that into the rubbish bin, and then invent things about Jesus from this non-existent record.

most of them think they are the Right ones in Christianity with "Faith and works" being what they believe.

I am glad, though, to see that you think the author of James was not "Right."

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

- James 2:18, 21-22, 24 KJV

Or do you wish to erase the book of James from the bible like Martin Luther wanted?

It's astonishing just how humans will fight tooth and nail to the death for their religious fantasies.

Still have been given this "list of works by any Catholic.
I translated those but you did not.

Sorry, this word salad makes no sense. I would encourage you to try again.

Pneuma is a Greek word that in English means "spirit, breath, or unseen force". Which is it Rhema?

I'll let you figure that out.
LINK to the Liddell Scott for G4151 πνεῦμα Pneuma

A. blast, wind​

Maybe

A. II. 3. flatulence​

But you know I'm not Trinitarian. (So how the crap did you come up with the flatulence claiming that I'm Catholic?)

The next verse shows "the Holy Spirit, Breathe of God, or Spirit of God."

What next verse? There is no John 16:34. (And verse 33 is the only verse in my post.)

You really might want to put on your thinking cap when you post. It would benefit us both. I remember a long time ago in a forum far far away, a member would get drunk and then post (he was mean drunk). It was almost funny.

If that's a stab that I don't have common sense, your opinon I don't is just your opinion not a fact.

It wasn't (a stab at you), but this post of yours sure dispels any doubt.

And it does lack common sense to say that Jesus spoke on topics for which there is no written account. How would you know? Since there's no record of such. Did Jesus speak on tariffs? The internal combustion engine? Oreo cookies? Perhaps you think Jesus invented the chair like Mel Gibson does? But hey, we can just claim that Jesus spoke on any topic if we toss out the written accounts. Let me know what Jesus said about DNA.

Point is, in any language words do not exist as a direct translation so other words are used and even more words in fact. That's in learning the basics of any non-English to English translation.

Dear Lord, now YOU'RE a translation expert. And I've changed my mind. I would never want you to ever work on me as a medic.

In every language words exist that are a direct translation. (Mother, sky, water, comes to mind.) But am I to assume that you meant to write, "Point is, in any language there MAYBE BE SOME words where a direct translation does not exist." Let's go with that. So what's your point? Your list is still composed mostly of theological terms invented by man that do not exist (whether as a direct translation or not) in the Greek manuscripts. But by all means, Dr. MB, prove me wrong. (It would be a breath of fresh air after this pneuma.)

“I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” (John 14:6b). No good deeds, no chants, no sacrifices are enough. Only the blood of Jesus has the power to wash away someone’s sins forever.

How, given any possible definition of common sense, can one get "blood of Jesus has the power to wash away someone's sins forever" out of "I am the way, and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." ??? UNLESS you add words to say "No one comes to the Father except through my blood." (But that's NOT what is written.)

Jesus IS his Teaching (LOGOS means teachings)
LINK to the Liddell Scott Lexicon for LOGOS

III. 2. my teaching,​

And His teachings are the way. His teachings are the truth. His teachings gives life, and no other way will get you to the Father, especially when one changes the words OR looks to the words written by other people.

It's truly a mental illness for a person to say, Jesus is my saviour, or Jesus is my Messiah, and yet claim to have no need whatsoever to obey his teachings. How is that anywhere near common sense?

Most importantly, "take up the cross, and follow me."

Truly, stupidity is the god of this world. Can you possibly (fingers crossed) think through this one with me? When Jesus (supposedly) said "take up the cross, and follow me," what did the CROSS mean to his fellow Jew? What was the CROSS? What was the CROSS used for? It was an instrument of capital punishment used by the Roman Empire to execute rebels - insurrectionists. There are records of crucifixion dating back to 479 BC in Greece. The Jewish king Alexander Jannaeus, king of Judea from 103 to 76 BC, crucified 800 rebels, said to be Pharisees, in the middle of Jerusalem (citations upon request).

When any Jew heard "take up your cross" it likely meant "Join the rebellion (follow me)." This isn't a translation issue, but one of informed interpretation - a wisdom that takes into account both history and General Semantics. Was the rebellion against Rome? Or was the rebellion against the Jewish Sanhedrin? (Likely both, to be honest.) Pilate didn't put "KING of the Jews" on the cross of Jesus for shucks and giggles.

Now what IS a translation issue, is that you read Jesus was crucified with two thieves. Yet G2812 κλέπτης kleptēs means thief, not G3027 λῃστης lēstēs. G3027 is best translated as "brigand" (cf. Cambridge Greek Lexicon) or INSURRECTIONIST - Rebel. Jesus was indeed crucified between two insurrectionists who tried to overthrow Rome. That's what crucifixion was for.

But was Jesus an insurrectionist? And NOW we're back to a translation issue.

αρατω (G142 ???) τον (THE) σταυρον (CROSS) αυτου (OF HIM) και (AND) ακολουθειτω (FOLLOW) μοι (ME)

I Provide a LINK to the Liddell Scott Lexicon for G142 αἴρω

A. III. lift and take away, remove​

One might just as easily read, "REMOVE your cross and follow me," to mean STOP your rebellion against Rome and obey my teachings.

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.​

- Matthew 11:29-30 KJV

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;​

- Matthew 5:44 KJV

If you continue to listen to the traditions of your religion, you will never understand.

Look at what Jesus DID and along with the Ten strive to do what He did.

(I think you mean the Eleven.. cf. Mat. 28:16 and Acts 1:26)

But I have no problem with your encouragement to DO what Jesus said.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?​

- Luke 6:46 KJV

Especially to repent and ask the Father for the Forgiveness of Sin.

And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.​

- Luke 11:4 KJV

Secular it may be the "Pilate's Letter to Cesear"

So we are to believe a forgery. (Utterly Amazing.) But "secular"? No. It's Catholic. (And here you call me Catholic when it's you who cite their documents.)

Fathers of the Church

A complete set of documents from the Fathers of the Church: saintly writers of the early centuries whom the Church recognizes as her special witnesses of the faith.

www.catholicculture.org

Here Jesus stayed SILENT.

According to Luke. What's your point?

There is no record of everything Jesus said nor ANY person at any time in history who was significant.

Glad to see that you believe Pilate wasn't "significant."

And when they had bound him, they led him away, and delivered him to Pontius Pilate the governor. ... And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.​

- Matthew 27:2, 11 KJV

And Pilate asked him, Art thou the King of the Jews? And he answering said unto him, Thou sayest it.​

- Mark 15:2 KJV

And by John's account, Jesus was downright chatty.

Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee? Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.​

- John 19:10-11 KJV

(And it almost sounds like Jesus was saying that God had the greater sin.)

But since we also have no record of most of what Mary said, maybe the Catholics are right? (That would be the logical outcome of your position - that we can rely on things said about which we have no account or record.)

I'd ask that you re-think your position and try to explain things a bit better.

Thank you,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Ooh, I highly doubt that.

Hell hath frozen. (Meaning that we are finally in agreement on something.)

Thank you,
Rhema

Exactly what Catholics do.

We (Catholics and I) just disagree on what is to be done.