Why people say Rapture, instead of first Resurrection?

[BroTan]

Some people say, "Jesus is going to rapture us up to Heaven where he is" and when we ask them where they get that from that quote 1Thessalonians 4:13-17, to make a point or justify the rapture.13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now lets take a closer look at the scripture and see what’s it talking about. Paul is telling people Not to grieve over people death in Christ; cause they will be raise again, as surely as the virtuous people that are living will be changed. "For the Lord will descend, (which mean come down), and we all will be caught up (ascend) together in the clouds to MEET the Lord in the AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. So all the saints will meet the Lord in the air with the Angels and come down, back to earth. The third heaven is above space, and above space, theres a body of water. So the Lord is coming from all the way up there, now the saints are coming from the earth to meet the Lord in the clouds, and then we are going back to earth.

Lets go into Zechariah 14:1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. 4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. 5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. Lets read this last part again in 1 Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

At the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ with ALL HIS SAINTS. How clear is this brothers and sisters. You have to get understanding. Just because a person see the word heaven, it doesn't mean that every word that you see in the Bible that says heaven, is talking about the same thing. There are three heavens God created. First heaven is Earth, Second heaven is the sun, moon, stars, clouds. The Third heaven is above all, is where our Lord Father and Jesus Christ are. Lets take a look an example in Deuteronomy 4:19 And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.

What else do you see when you look up and see the sun the moon and stars, you see the clouds, and didn't say in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Do we understand what meet means.

Lets take a look at the meaning of the word meet. meet1 mēt/ verb 1. come into the presence or company of (someone) by chance or arrangement."a week later I met him in the street" synonyms: encounter, meet up with, come face to face with,run into, run across, come across/upon, chance on, happen on, stumble across/on;informalbump into "I met an old friend on the train"

 

[B-A-C]

Rev 20:3 and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

The first resurrection doesnt happen until after the tribulation, and after the millennial reign starts.

 

[BroTan]

Now lets go to psalm 132 and take a look at what, the Lord sworn in truth unto David. Verse 11-14, 11 The LORD hath sworn in truth unto David; he will not turn from it; Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne. 132:12 If thy children will keep my covenant and my testimony that I shall teach them, their children shall also sit upon thy throne for evermore. 132:13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired It for his habitation. 132:14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it. Now at that time David was on the earth and he knew the Lord plan, which is to come down on earth.

Now another scripture that is use to try and support the false teaching of going to heaven is in St. John 14:1-3 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 14:2 In my Father’s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Now if we look close at what Jesus is saying we can point out some things here. Jesus said in verse 3, "I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again"

Now we know Jesus ascended back to heaven, sitting on the right hand of the Father.

So, Lets go and see when Jesus left the earth to go to the third heaven to the Father in Acts 1: 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Lets look at the middle of verse 3 John 14: And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, now lets answer this, Revelation 21: And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

So, now...at this point we have Jesus and the Father and we have a new heaven and new earth, not the third heaven, but still the first heaven and new earth.

 

[BroTan]

Now lets take a look and see what we got here, first let me start by saying there is no rapture ok.

Lets go into Acts 1: 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 1:10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

So now we know how Jesus is coming back, of course not by himself, now let us take a look at the coming of the Lord in Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory

Lets get another look at it in, Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

At this point, notice in verse 15, and also Revelation 1:7, how all this ties together and these people trying to hide from the Lord, maybe they should be trying to repent or maybe its to late. Remind you that the Lord haven"t descend yet, he just sitting in heaven looking at them. This is just about the end of the great tribulation

Now lets bring the Lord down...1Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Now lets make some sense out of this, Verse 15, this is talking about the dead and those who are still alive and both are coming back with Jesus. So if it was a rapture, it wouldn’t make sense at this point, for one the great tribulation is a over, second, the dead is being raise also with those that are alive, which is now called the first resurrection. Verse 16. The Lord is descending which means coming down from the Third Heaven, the voice of archangel and trumpet are sound, and then the dead in Christ shall rise first. Which also means that there will arise the dead again at another time, and what’s the point of rapture at this point anyway…the dead is coming back and the great tribulation is about over. Heres the good parts (Heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump).

 

[backNforth]

Why people say Rapture, instead of first Resurrection?​

Now lets take a look and see what we got here, first let me start by saying there is no rapture ok.

If you want the answer to the "rapture" question, simply study the RESURRECTION.

The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain preconceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be “gathered” at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn’t in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn’t even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.

In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God The Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says “He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 6:24, 28, 29) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those “that have done good,” and a resurrection for those “that have done evil.”

In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall “be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.” (Luke 14:14) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.

Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, “that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.” (Ezekiel 33:8, 4) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Daniel 12:2)

Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to “the first resurrection.” (Rev. 20:5) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4)

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says “the rest of the dead live not again until the thousand years were finished.” (Rev. 20:5) Later in the chapter John says, “when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged...” (Rev. 20:7, 12) These verses plainly state that there are two resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall “reign with him a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:6)

 

[Gothedral]

I'm interjecting with a reiteration that The LORD can decide it's our time to die to day. Emphasis on the context that - where we are on God's mysterious calendar is important but not essential to redemption and salvation.

 

[BroTan]

Why people say Rapture, instead of first Resurrection?​

If you want the answer to the "rapture" question, simply study the RESURRECTION.

The rapture doctrine requires students of the scriptures to approach each relevant verse with certain preconceived notions about prophecy. If you simply read the various prophetic verses about the return of Christ, the Bible clearly teaches that believers will be “gathered” at the second coming -- not some secret, invisible return that precedes his BIG second coming at the end of the tribulation. The problem isn’t in our understanding of the rapture, because the rapture as routinely taught today doesn’t even exist; the difficulty is in our understanding of the resurrection.

In John chapter five, Jesus tells us how God The Father has committed the power of resurrection to him. Jesus says “He that heareth my word and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life...for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 6:24, 28, 29) According to these passages, apparently there are two resurrections: one for those “that have done good,” and a resurrection for those “that have done evil.”

In one of the parallel accounts, a verse in Luke has Christ himself saying that the believer shall “be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.” (Luke 14:14) Another proof text of this dual aspect of the resurrection is found in the book of Acts when the Apostle Paul was brought before the Roman governor Felix and charged with heresy by the Jews.

Paul stated that he believes, as the Jews did, “that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust.” (Ezekiel 33:8, 4) A further example of this understanding of two resurrections is found in the Old Testament, when the prophet Daniel was instructed by the archangel Michael concerning the tribulation and the resurrection. In that instance, Michael said that in the time of the end, “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Daniel 12:2)

Back in the New Testament book of Revelation, we find a reference to “the first resurrection.” (Rev. 20:5) This first resurrection clearly relates to believers in Jesus, for the text states that they “lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4)

In the same chapter, John (the writer of Revelation) says “the rest of the dead live not again until the thousand years were finished.” (Rev. 20:5) Later in the chapter John says, “when the thousand years are expired...I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God...and the dead were judged...” (Rev. 20:7, 12) These verses plainly state that there are two resurrections -- one for believers and one for unbelievers.

The Revelation passages further clarify that these two resurrections are separated by one thousand years; this being the period we commonly call the millennium during which the resurrected believers shall “reign with him a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:6)

I take it that you didn't really read my post all the way through. It happens.

 

[BroTan]

I'm interjecting with a reiteration that The LORD can decide it's our time to die to day. Emphasis on the context that - where we are on God's mysterious calendar is important but not essential to redemption and salvation.

Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16): Remember, before his crucifixion, Jesus told his disciples that his time (death) is not yet come; He also informed them that their time (death) can come at any moment.

So let’s take a look and see what Paul says in Romans 6: 1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

So this baptism is a covenant with you and God, and you telling the Lord that you are changing your sinful ways and walking in newness of life, which is keeping his Commandments, Statues and Judgements.

 

[BroTan]

Lets take a look at that trump that is sounded....1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Now we see how all this verses and scriptures connection with each other. Last Verse 17. Now we will meet the Lord in the clouds, those that are dead in Christ and those who are still alive and made it out the great tribulation or out of the place of safety (wilderness). Lets go into 1Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Lets go to Isaiah 27:12 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. (future) 27:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem (future)

Joel 2:1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;

Now lets go to the part when he say, (and the dead in Christ shall rise first).

The dead in Christ are those who keep his commandment, let us look.

 

[KingJ]

Now lets take a look and see what we got here, first let me start by saying there is no rapture ok.

False. The rapture is an unknown date. The resurrection you are referring to is a known date.

Matt 24:36 - But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

As @B-A-C has said ''The first resurrection doesnt happen until after the tribulation, and after the millennial reign starts.''.

The end of a seven year tribulation at the end of the sixth day....is a known date. To say otherwise requires you to believe that all in heaven cannot count.

 

[Gothedral]

Anyone that is not baptized is a person with their sins yet upon them, because it is the baptism that washes away our past sins. "And now why tarriest thou? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16): Remember, before his crucifixion, Jesus told his disciples that his time (death) is not yet come; He also informed them that their time (death) can come at any moment.

Saint Luke 23:33-43
Was the Thief on the cross baptized, or those present who "know not what they do", or those of the Old Testament?

(KJV) Exodus 33:19... Psalm 86:5... Mark 2:7-10... Luke 13:1-5... Romans 9:15... 1 John 1:9.
It seems that The LORD will forgive the repentant and whom He will, and those will be with Christ after death.

And as for the subject headline:

(KJV) Saint Matthew chapter 27:

49 The rest said, "Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him."

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, "Truly, this was the Son of God."

 

[BroTan]

Saint Luke 23:33-43
Was the Thief on the cross baptized, or those present who "know not what they do", or those of the Old Testament?

Maybe...... I don't know, but it could be a possibility, because John was baptizing unto repentance. In Matthew 3: 1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judæa, 2 and saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, Make his paths straight. 11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

(KJV) Exodus 33:19... Psalm 86:5... Mark 2:7-10... Luke 13:1-5... Romans 9:15... 1 John 1:9.
It seems that The LORD will forgive the repentant and whom He will, and those will be with Christ after death.

And as for the subject headline:

(KJV) Saint Matthew chapter 27:

49 The rest said, "Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him."

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, "Truly, this was the Son of God."

"And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." (Luke 7:29-30). People, if you are in a position to be baptized, why reject the counsel of God? Rejecting God's counsel will get you eternal life in the burning flames (lake of fire) with the scribes and Pharisees. "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, Ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5: 20).

 

[BroTan]

False. The rapture is an unknown date. The resurrection you are referring to is a known date.

Matt 24:36 - But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

As @B-A-C has said ''The first resurrection doesnt happen until after the tribulation, and after the millennial reign starts.''.

The end of a seven year tribulation at the end of the sixth day....is a known date. To say otherwise requires you to believe that all in heaven cannot count.

Did I put a date on the first resurrection?