Why we should at least know where God's true church is...

[DHC]

Hello Rag4aCrown.

Nice to be able to have a chat with you.

You made a number of statements in your last post, this one below I will deal with first.

This world's churches is caught up in this world and just as much "of this world" as anyone on the street.

Not all churches are worldly churches, I have attended one or two churches that would change your mind on this subject.
Just attending one of these churches will seriously destroy any shred of a worldly life that you may have. They are so busy
praying and evangelizing, there is not much time for any worldly life.

These two churches contain fanatical extremists for Jesus, this is the brand of Christianity that these folk have been taught.
For these church members, losing a wednesday, thursday, saturday and sunday, for Jesus is par for the course. Your statement
was a generalization that is not true in every case.

Did self go to the grocery store this week for God? or self?

We are called to love others as Christ has loved us Rag4aCrown, love is the perfect and ultimate gift of the Holy Spirit.
This is the highest call and goal in the Christian life, we cannot love anyone else, except with the intervention of the
Holy Spirit in our lives.

So if I go shopping for the necessary items in life, this act of shopping itself is not a selfish act. Even Jesus needed to go shopping
at times. The trick in Christianity is understanding that it is Christ who sanctifies us! You will be unable to wear the Christian armor
through your own willful effort. In Christ we are clothed, in Christ everything becomes possible, Christ is the first and last in all things.

Did self forsake ALL for self? or God? No one is doing it; Not one...

Another generalization Rag4aCrown, and wholly out of the context.

Losing one's own life is impossible of course, as also is never sinning again for example.

Surely by now you have failed enough times in these areas to know better, surely?

Christ set the benchmark of self righteousness, at a height that no mortal could ever reach. So if you cannot attain the required
benchmark, then fall into the forgiveness and the love of Christ. That is why Christ spoke the way he did, no one is going to climb
into heaven any other way except through Christ.

Romans 8
1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

What you could never do yourself, i.e., attaining a self righteousness, Christ has already done for you. Rejoice with us Rag4aCrown,
rejoice that you have been set free from your own failed attempts at righteousness. Rejoice that God no longer condemns you,
because you have Christ within you and His righteousness alone. Remain in Christ and let the gentleness of the Holy Spirit do His
work in and through you.

Matthew 11:30
For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.

There is no heavy burden in the Christian life, the Christian life is simply joy and peace in the Holy Spirit. If you have been taught an
alternate Gospel, then you have been misled. The burden of Christ is as light as a feather, for the real burden is love from a pure heart.

John 13:34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

That's about it Rag4aCrown, if you have Christ and the love of the Holy Spirit. Then you have the true life in all it's brilliant abundance,
perfection has been attained. For God is love, the law is built on love, love is the fabric of everything seen and unseen. Love never points
the finger, is not self seeking, does not find fault. Love forgives and forgets.

 

[rag4aCrown]

Love speaks the truth in Him; what the Holy Spirit is speaking to one's heart; whether they like it or not. He will give ye what ye (ought) to say.
Just as Jesus went in and called them hypocrites and they hated Him; He loved them enough to speak the truth. They didn't like it much, so they sought how they might kill Him, and they paid a greedy disciple to betray Him, and they hang Him on the tree of LIFE (the cross).

Yes, Love others as Christ loved us; are you willing to die for them, by their hand, because you have greater respect for God then their feelings because of the truth you speak in HIM? Yet, it is not them you die for, but HIM.

Our carnal mentally of love and the spiritual Love are two different kinds of love. Do you know HIM?
His ways... is not our ways.
And when one has been introduced to the Way, the Truth, and the Life, it totally goes against the grain of traditional teaching and doctrines of men.
Those who go against the grain are called the devil and cast out; just as Jesus was (and still is today).
We come forth in the name of Jesus and hypocrites are offended just by the statement.

How heartless did Jesus appear to be to man when He told the one who said he would go with Him, but first let me go bury my father? and Jesus said, "let the dead bury their dead"? What is born of the flesh is flesh; what is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And yes, a mortal can reach new heights (heavenly heights) in Him, but one must forsake ALL and follow HIM; being separate from this world (removing ourselves from it), not being converted to this world (doing the norm that everyone does). We have to come out of her and the world and walk in Spirit and in Truth with GOD. We can not continue to serve this world (which is the beast; full of lust, darkness, death and SIN).

Just as Jesus did; so are we to do, (be Christ like). He went in to tell them what the Father had told Him and He left and went back into the wilderness (the woods and dirt, the Father's world; not mans). He did not partake in the ways of this world; He didn't tarry among the mortals, though He was a mortal Himself. He was invited to a wedding party, in which He went (so the Father would be glorified, not self) and performed the miracle of changing water into wine. Physical change teaching us a spiritual manifestation.

Why do you think Jesus spoke "if (anyone) come after me, let him pick up his cross and follow me. (ANYONE).
He knew it would be almost impossible for us to do; but with God (only with God) ALL things are possible.
We have to choose this day whom we will serve and do it.
For we can not serve two masters.

Just as Joseph went into the desert and heat with God (rather than spend one day in sin and death); Joseph believed God. He trusted God. He had rather die with God then in any castle with gold and robes. God provided water out of a rock, where no water was found. God provided a fig tree where no trees were. GOD; the same yesterday, today, and forever.

It is us who goes to the grocery store; God doesn't need a grocery store. He provides for ALL His creation; even the birds fear not of what they will eat or drink. Are we not worth more than a bird?

Our own unbelief is what condemns us. Now, how can we believe and continue to do for ourselves? Do we not believe God is able? We say we do, but we do the opposite. There is no condemnation to those who are IN Christ Jesus. Who is IN Him, forsaking ALL and following Him. Stephen was IN Him; of course Stephen died serving the Lord, not this world nor self. Behold, I see the heavens opened and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God; and the stoned Stephen to death, while Paul stood by consenting to his death, guarding their clothes. To live is Christ; to die is gain.

God has not failed us; we have failed HIM.
We are at a stale mate. Everyone is waiting on God... God is waiting on us (anyone) to believe.
Tell me this world's darkness, sin and death is now getting much, much worse... hummm... must be because God's people is not a light in all the darkness; must be because we have not been salt unto the earth, but have went about having respector of persons and appeasing their itching ears.
He is coming back in vengeance and wrath....

I know we do not all have the same walk IN Him; for many are called, but few are chosen.
What I have spoken above, I speak the truth IN Him. These words are what the Holy Ghost has unveiled to me and spoken, engrafting the Word upon my heart. It is mine to speak forth; regardless if anyone will hear what the spirit is saying is not my call, but God's. Amen.

Lord have mercy upon us ALL.....

 

[TaylorDonBarret]

Hello Don.

Hope I have your first name correct now.

I totally reject your claim that the Catholic church was a 'mother' church, Don.

Where did you get this idea from, there were other churches in existence, and way before any church in Rome ever came about.
Apostles wrote to and visited these other churches. Why was the church in Judea not called the mother church? Why was the church in
Antioch, not also called a mother church?

It would appear that you have been reading a Roman Catholic history of the church.

Secondly Don, the Catholic church is incapable of any error whatsoever.

The doctrine of infallibility relies on one of the cornerstones of Catholic dogma: that of petrine supremacy of the pope, and his authority
as the ruling agent who decides what is accepted as formal beliefs in the Roman Catholic Church. The use of this power is referred to
as speaking ex cathedra. Catholics consider this authority apostolic, and of divine origin. (Wikipedia)

Please could you refrain from using the word 'error' and the Catholic church in the same sentence.

Within the Catholic church, it is clearly taught that the Catholic church never executed anyone in any inquisition.
The catholic church simply handed a heretic over to the local authorities in a given province for execution.
It is impossible for the Catholic church to commit error, that is what infallibility means.

The Catholic church does not really teach salvation by Grace. The catholic church specifically teaches that there
is only one true church. That one true church, is the Catholic church, and salvation is not available outside of
this singular church, Anyone who thinks that they are saved by their belief in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Needs
to research what a true christian really is using the Catholic definition, The Catholic definition of a Christian is as follows.

The Catholic Church is the community of those who profess their belief in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, publicly affirm that
belief through Baptism, celebrate it through the Eucharist, accept the teachings of Christ that have come down to us from the apostles,
and carry out the sacramental life and mission of the Church under the leadership of the pope and those ordained in apostolic succession.

If you do not celebrate the Eucharist and are not under the authority of the Pope, then by definition, you are lost.

Look, I do not want to get into a long debate about the merits of modern day Roman Catholicism.

But, I will answer a couple of your questions.

First, you ask: "How can Roman Catholicism be the mother church when there were other churches in existence, and some of them even before rome had a church?"

Ok, well, if we look at history, there were churches that existed before Rome's church. true. The church sprang up first in Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost when The Holy Spirit was given. And churches arose all across Asia Minor, throughout the middle east, before Paul went to Rome. But when Paul went to Rome, he did preach and he did convert and he did set up a church. And Peter came to Rome and led the church in Rome and helped establish Rome, on the back of Paul's work, as one of the powerhouses among the early churches.
So, right from the very beginning, we see that Rome had a very powerful church, led by arguably the two most powerful Apostles. And the apostles appointed men to be bishops, and instructed them to appoint men to be their successors, and so on. This was the Apostles responsible duty to God, to make sure that the churches would have appointed leaders, and to ensure preservation of the churches faith by means of """apostolic succession""".

This is not really difficult to understand if you divorce yourself from the idea of "Papal Infallibility". If you take a step back and think about this from a purely objective point of view.. it is absolutely logical, and absolutely WISE. if you are called by God to spead the gospel and start churches around the world, before you leave one church you will make sure to select one trustworthy, Spirit filled man and you will train him and set him over the church. and you will instruct him to select another trustworthy young man, to train him so that there will be a worthy successor. This is only wisdom running its course in church history.

So, in this way, when we think about Roman Catholicism in the history of Christianity, we see that from the very beginning the Apostles themselves labored greatly to establish the church in Rome, and after a couple decades the church in Rome was one of great authority among the other churches, and after constantine made rome a Christian empire, then Roman Catholicism truly became the "mother church" for all who would come afterwards.

Now, if you are Eastern Orthodox, then you my disagree. However, for us Western Protestants, we surely have our heritage and roots in Roman Catholicism. Remember, Luther and Calvin were Roman Catholics.

Hello Rag4aCrown.

We have not had the opportunity to talk so far, for this I apologise.

You said the following in post #16.
There is a verse in Revelations warning us not to continue to inhabit a specific church.

Revelation 18
4 I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in
her sins and receive of her plagues.

It certainly appears that God does not want His people involved in this particular church.

So I would strongly disagree with your initial statement rag4aCrown.

That verse could apply to a city, or to a country, or to the Jezebel spirit, or, yes, to a religious organization.

Lets honor God by not making assumptions.

so be it DHC;
God is indeed calling His people to come out of her; so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
Stop having respector of persons... all persons... mother, daughter, son, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, pastors, congregation, SELF; no one is above God. Not one.
God is waiting on us to believe His Word, forsake ALL and follow Him; Yes, your churches, family, friends, homes, cars, knick knacks, what knots, property, jobs, ALL... if they will not forsake ALL and follow Him then leave them behind.
This world's churches is caught up in this world and just as much "of this world" as anyone on the street.
Did self go to the grocery store this week for God? or self?
Did self go to work this morning for God? or self?
Did self forsake ALL for self? or God?
No one is doing it; Not one...
Even if one should do it, they would be beaten to death by those that justify themselves and sit on the pew.
Nothing has changed, because no one has forsaken anything and followed HIM.

This world forsook me and God introduced himself to me and gave me a good taste of unity with the Holy Spirit; then the world had need of me again and I yielded to it; now God is asking me to forsake ALL and follow Him.
It is very hard to do........ I understand Paul; what I should do, I don't do; and what I shouldn't do that I do.
Lord, have mercy upon us ALL...

Hello rag4acrown.
How are you doing?
We certainly need to hate our father, our mother, our sisters and our brothers, even our own lifes; and yes even our churches too.
(in comparison to how we feel about Jesus)

I would like to make this point, however, and I do not know if this applied to you or not.
But let The Word of God convict you or encourage you as appropriate.


"And let us not neglect our meeting together, as some people do"

God commands us to gather together with other Christians to worship Him.
And Jesus tells us "If you love me, you will keep my commandments"
So, if anyone is refusing to gather together with other Christians,
that means they have a lack of love of God in their hearts.

And.. many of you will say "but i cannot find any good churches to go to."
and "i have been to many churches and none of them are worthy"
guess what.. if thats you... the problem isnt the churches, the problem is you.

humility is good.

.

Religious denominations actually go contrary to scripture, because they divide Christ (1 Corinthians 1:10-17; 3:3). A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand (Matthew 12:25, Mark 3:24-25, Luke 11:17). In scripture, God's people are called the Christ's assembly (note: the Greek word ekklesia .is translated as 'church' in most bibles, but it actually refers to a group of people, and not to a physical building. Therefore, the literal translation is either 'assembly' or 'congregation'). For example, "the assembly of God" (Acts 20:28, 1 Corinthians 1:2; 10:32; 11:22; 15:9, 2 Corinthians 1:1, Galatians 1:13, 1 Timothy 3:5), or "the assembles of God" (1 Cor.11:16; 1 Thess.2:14; 2 Thess.1:4), or "the assembles of Christ" (Romans 16:16). To call the assembly (church) of God by a different name, is to replace the name of God's assembly (church) with a man-made name. God considers "naming the name of Christ" to be iniquity (2 Timothy 2:19). All denominations create a man-made name to place on their man-made Church. Where is their authority for doing this?

1 Corinthians 1:10-13, "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you ; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you . Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?"

The above verse clearly condemns denominations. The reason for denominations is because those in the assembly (church) did not "speak the same thing", and that caused "divisions among them", and were no longer "joined together." Therefore, they formed different ‘Churches’ because of all the ‘contentions among them’. Just like how, in the above verses, those in the first century divided themselves and said they were of the assembly of "Chloe, Paul, Apollos, Cephas, etc.", denominations today divide themselves and say they are of the Church of the "Baptists, Catholics, Protestants, Lutherans, Evangelical, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh day Adventists, Mormons, Orthodox, Quakers, Methodists, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Calvinists, Arminianists," etc. But, as Paul asks above, "Is Christ divided?" If not, then how can these divided Churches be of Christ?

Another example of an attempt to ‘divide’ God into separate ‘Churches’ is at the transfiguration (Matthew 17:1-13, Mark 9:2-13, Luke 9:28-36). After Peter saw Moses, Elijah, and Jesus, he wanted to build a tabernacle (Church) for each one of them. But the Father himself descended in a cloud and said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him." In other words, we are to submit to Jesus only, and preach what he says. This attitude is reflected in the last recorded words of the mother of Jesus, Mary, when she said, "Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it" (John 2:5). We are not to build temples after other men, or upon other men’s teachings, but we are to do what Jesus told us to do.

Psalms 133:1, "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!"

1 John 3:14, "We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death."

It is not possible to "dwell together in unity," or to "love the brethren" when denominations are too busy fighting with each other and disagreeing with each other.

Amos 3:3, "Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"

Denominationalism: "The system and ideology founded on the division of the religious population into numerous ecclesiastical bodies, each stressing particular values or traditions and each competing with the other in the same community under substantial conditions of freedom. Thus denominationalism has usually been associated with religious pluralism, voluntaryism, mutual respect and recognition, and neutrality on the part of the state." Westminster Dictionary of Church History (1971), pages 262-263.

As you can see, the very definition of ‘denominationalism’ goes against the very heart of scripture. If you take the five words in bold above, for example, and compare these words with what scripture says about them, it is all negative: Division (1 Corinthians 1:10-17; 3:3). Traditions (Matthew 15:3,6, Mark 7:8,9,13. Colossians 2:8). Competing (2 Corinthians 10:12). Religious pluralism (Galatians 1:8,9). Respect (James 2:9, Leviticus 19:15, Deuteronomy 10:17, 2 Chronicles 19:7).

"The Bible in no way envisages the organization of the church into denominations. It instead assumes the opposite, that all Christians, except those being disciplined, will be in full fellowship with all others. Any tendencies to the contrary were roundly denounced (1 Cor.1:10-13). Paul could write a letter to the Christians meeting in various places in Rome or Galatia with every assurance that all would receive its message. Today, for any city or country, he would have to place the letter as an advertisement in the secular media and hope." Elwell’s Evangelistic Dictionary of Theology, (1984), page 310.

"Articles, Creeds, and Confessions of Faith alike fail to give us this full knowledge of God which is so essential to our faith and walk. They are only man’s impressions, inferences, and conclusions drawn from Scripture; and have themselves to be judged by Scripture. Whatever of truth there may be in them, or however useful, they can never take the place of the Word of God. Only in the "person" of the Living Word, and in the pages of the written Word, can we get to know God." E.W. Bullinger, The Knowledge of God, (1920), page 3.

"We do not use any non-scriptural words or expressions. These are the things which divide the members of the One Body, instead of uniting them. These introduce the seeds of strife and contention. These have been the causes of controversies and martyrdom’s". E.W.Bullinger, The Knowledge of God, (1920), page 3.

On the 26th of May, 1786, James Madison, who subsequently became president of the United States, said in a sermon he delivered before the Protestant Episcopal Church in the State of Virginia, "I earnestly recommend to our Christians to reject every system as the fallible production of human contrivance, which shall dictate the articles of faith; and adopt the Gospel alone as their guide. Those Christian societies will ever be found to have formed their union upon principles, the wisest and the best, which makes the scriptures alone, and not human articles, a confession of belief, the sole rule of faith and conduct." W.D. Frazie "Reminiscences and Sermons" (1896. page 63).

James Madison also said, "We have staked the whole future of the American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future...upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves, according to the Ten Commandments of God."

In the New Testament, the English word "heresy" is from an untranslated Greek word (word [HASHTAG]#139[/HASHTAG]). It's used nine times; four times it is left untranslated, but the other five times it is translated. This word is translated as "sect" (i.e., denomination) in Acts 5:17; 15:5; 24:5; 26:5 and 28:22. However, it is left untranslated in Acts 24:14, 1 Corinthians 11:19, Galatians 5:20 and 2 Peter 2:1. Let’s see what some of these verses would say if it was .translated.

1 Corinthians 11:18-19, "For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies [sects, denominations] among you..."

It shows that denominations cause divisions! What else does scripture say about sects?

Galatians 5:19-21, "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies (sects, denominations), Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."

Denominations are defined as a work of the flesh! We are told that they who partake of these things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Why not? Because denominations cause divisions, and Christ is not divided. Therefore, denominations are not of Christ!

2 Peter 2:1, "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies (sects, denominations), even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."

This passage says false prophets and false teachers will bring in denominations, and they will deny the Lord. Denominations do deny the Lord by dividing the Lord.

When you start getting into re-definitions and re-statements of the Truth, you’re no longer in the Truth, you’re an image of the Truth. A sect or denomination is not the real thing, it is not the Truth; it is only an interpretation of the Truth, it is only a perception of the Truth. The works of men (creeds, confessions, or articles of faith) quicken no one and save no souls.

John 6:63, "It is the spirit [*not creeds, confessions, or articles of faith] that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life."

Hosea 8:6, "…the workman made it [*creeds, confessions, or articles of faith]; therefore it is not God:"

Isaiah 17:7-8, "At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel. And he shall not look to the altars, the work of his hands, neither shall respect that which his fingers have made [*creeds, confessions, or articles of faith]..."

Also, when people say they are a "New Testament Church", they separate themselves, because they’re saying they popped up at some point 2,000 years ago, whereas God's "church" is from the beginning (Gen.1:1, Psalms 119:160, Pro.8:23, Isa.40:21; 41:4,26; 46:10; 48:5, Jer.17:12, Mark 10:6, Acts 15:18, Col.1:18, 1 John 2:7; 3:11, 2 John 1:5,6, Rev.21:6; 22:13). The "New Covenant Church," for example, is an imperfect church like all other denominations.
.

that is good and well.

whats your solution?

do we go from church to church and try to organize Christian unity to develop one single Christian organization, collecting all denominations together?

or do we just condemn all denominations and refuse to enter into a congregation and consider ourselves better than them, and they are not worthy of our presence?

is it wise to join a church which claims universalism, homosexuality, and evolution with another church which claims biblical creation, conservative biblical virtues, and double predestination?

do we need to agree with EVERY SINGLE DOCTRINE that somebody believes in order to be of "one mind, one body, and one faith" with them?

or do we just need to agree with core, essential, fundamental doctrine: the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, The Son of God, who gave His life for those who repent and trust in Him?

Hey Taylor, Taylor Don, Taylor Don Barret

There is a lot of clutter in the room at the moment, but hopefully you can hear my voice over the commotion. Catholic and Roman Catholic are two totally different things. The Roman Catholic church is the byproduct of Emperor Constantine pope-ishly declaring Christianity to be the religion of his empire. It has no connection to the apostles, none, regardless of what it claims. This(Christianity being declared as the religion of the state) was the worst possible thing that could have happened to Christianity. Christianity does not mix with governments of this world. It was never, in any way, intended to be political in nature, not like that anyway.

There is no succession of apostolicity passed down generation to generation from one man to the next, directly. Our hope doesn't rest upon this. Spurgeon was called by God to preach the gospel, not under the authority of some apostolic priesthood or whatnot, but by the Holy Ghost, and he was given the scriptures to preach from. We don't need some apostolic line of authority from the apostles like that. Church history is important, and passing the fundamentals of the faith down is important too. But our traditions don't rest upon that, they rest upon the Word of God. And he is able to resurrect the church from the dead if he needs be. He doesn't need mere men to pass down the apostles authority to other men, he can do whatever he pleases, whenever he pleases, however he pleases.

Roman Catholicism has not passed down any amount of apostolic authority. The best thing they've done is greedily store away some manuscripts that have been helpful in translating the scriptures. Everything else connected to them is basically apostasy by any other name. She is a harlot, through and through.

The Trinity was not developed by the Roman Catholic church. The RCC gives lip service to the Trinity, but their trinity is really god the father, god the baby Jesus, god the Virgin Mary.

If a harlot were to appear in court with charges against her for harlotry, it doesn't look good in the public eye for a person to stand up and give a defense in her honor, stating that "yes she made a few mistakes, but she's not a harlot." When she is convicted of her harlotry, its going to look really bad for those who were holding her up as some sort of moral woman. Some may even wonder if it was because they were making bed with her.

Blessings,

Travis

Hey Travis.
I agree with much of what you said.
However, even if the Roman Catholic church ends up eventually being the ***** of babylon somewhere down the line;
There have still been many, many, many Roman Catholic saints who labored tirelessly for Christ, even martyred for the Savior.
From Peter and Paul, who were in Rome establishing the Catholic church when they were martyed, to Ignatius and Polycarp.
And then we have a long history of very influential, very devoted to Christ, wonderful saints of God=
St. Chrysostom, St. Augustine, St. Clement, St. Gregory, St. Athanasius, St. Jerome, St. Basil, etc etc etc.
We owe a great deal of honor and respect to these men of God, and the early Roman Catholic church.

As for the fate of the modern day Roman Catholic church... I do not know.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

[QUOTE="lawrenceb, post: 260200, member: 23717"]Meanwhile, boat-rocking truth bearers are not welcome here -- they never were[/QUOTE]

@lawrenceb

Well thats quite a condemning statement you make

Are you a boat rocking truth bearer?

Do you bring the words of Christ to the forum in love and peace.....wooing people to the love of the Lord, leading them to the cross, leading them to the truth only found in the word of God?

Or do you constantly criticize and slam people down with legalistic arguments about the world, the ungodly, the system.

Boat rocking truth bearers are very welcome here.....those who proclaim Jesus, His Word, His love.

The entrance of Thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Psalm 119:130