with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
- Thread starter Dave M
- Start date
Glad you asked.
Romans 7; starts out with Paul describing how those under the Mosaic Law are subject to it till death. At least this is true in the marriage/adultery example that Paul uses. But Paul goes on to say the WE are free from the Law by the death of Jesus Christ, and "should be married to another, even to Him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. FOR WHEN WE WERE IN THE FLESH, the motions of sins, which were by the Law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death”. WERE in the flesh, past tense. We are now “in the Spirit”.
Paul goes on to describe his PAST life as a Jew, fighting against his own flesh, and losing the battles.
Paul is writing in the "present-historical" tense, not present tense.
At Romans 7:23, Paul writes "For I see another Law in my members, warring against the Law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the LAW OF SIN which is in my members. But look at Romans 8:2; "For the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the LAW OF SIN and death." The Law of sin is powerless to those under the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.
Paul (and those who are married to Him who is raised from the dead) are free from the Law, and from the flesh.
Dave M
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Salvation is from God through faith. based on the righteousness of God. God is good and no one else is good. No one can be righteous we need Gods Righteousness, God is only perfect. We must seek Gods Righteousness. Salvation has nothing to do with works. We need God to go to heaven.
Law is there to show you that we are NOT righteous, impossible to keep the law. Our faith is what pleases God. our faith is what makes us Christians,. Even if you could keep the law you still would not be Righteous.
Through God we can be Righteous, in God we can obtain Righteousness.
God solves our problem of our sinful nature by bringing us out of it through him it has nothing to do with us. Through his Grace we are saved nothing that we can do. God sent Jesus to pay the price for our sins so we could recieve Grace. All sin has to be paid by something, Jesus did this for us once and for all.
Gods standard of what is Good and Holly is not obtainable for the human sinful nature, the Law shows this the law is to show you how sinful you are. No one is perfect and able to keep it accept Jesus Christ Lord and savior. Jesus came to fulfill the law so he could save us sinners.
the Law is a blueprint of Christ, Christ is the law. the Law of faith and the law of Mosses work together, the purpose of the law is is to lead people to Christ. that is way we are saved by Christ and not of works. Christ is the only one who has kept the law ans was perfect.
Righteousness is from God to us when we have faith, we can never obtain it ourselves.
Gods word when we trust in it helps to grow our faith.
The payment that sin requires for God to give us goodness was Jesus dying on the cross.
For God to give us righteousness we have to have faith in Gods word and believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead. So now God does not count our sins, when we have faith and he gives us righteousness so we can have eternal life.
We do work to be obedient to our Heavenly father. But Jesus work on the cross is what saves us, nothing we do. Faith is why we want to be obiedent
So we were born into the world as sinners because of one man Adam, and we are saved by Christ and his work on the cross.
Now we need to grow and mature as Christians which is a never ending process called sanctification. now we get to do good works for eternal rewards.
Law is there to show you that we are NOT righteous, impossible to keep the law. Our faith is what pleases God. our faith is what makes us Christians,. Even if you could keep the law you still would not be Righteous.
Through God we can be Righteous, in God we can obtain Righteousness.
God solves our problem of our sinful nature by bringing us out of it through him it has nothing to do with us. Through his Grace we are saved nothing that we can do. God sent Jesus to pay the price for our sins so we could recieve Grace. All sin has to be paid by something, Jesus did this for us once and for all.
Gods standard of what is Good and Holly is not obtainable for the human sinful nature, the Law shows this the law is to show you how sinful you are. No one is perfect and able to keep it accept Jesus Christ Lord and savior. Jesus came to fulfill the law so he could save us sinners.
the Law is a blueprint of Christ, Christ is the law. the Law of faith and the law of Mosses work together, the purpose of the law is is to lead people to Christ. that is way we are saved by Christ and not of works. Christ is the only one who has kept the law ans was perfect.
Righteousness is from God to us when we have faith, we can never obtain it ourselves.
Gods word when we trust in it helps to grow our faith.
The payment that sin requires for God to give us goodness was Jesus dying on the cross.
For God to give us righteousness we have to have faith in Gods word and believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose from the dead. So now God does not count our sins, when we have faith and he gives us righteousness so we can have eternal life.
We do work to be obedient to our Heavenly father. But Jesus work on the cross is what saves us, nothing we do. Faith is why we want to be obiedent
So we were born into the world as sinners because of one man Adam, and we are saved by Christ and his work on the cross.
Now we need to grow and mature as Christians which is a never ending process called sanctification. now we get to do good works for eternal rewards.
I was actually writing about this in my book. Here is an elucidation that might help you understand it. I always try to ask for God's own Wisdom, Knowledge, and Understanding, so I truly believe that this is pretty on point:
WARNING: Its quite long.
"What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, 'You shall not covet.' Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died [this statement clarifies that Paul is in fact speaking metaphorically here. Was Paul alive before God gave Moses the ten commandments? No. Of course not. He is speaking on the behalf of humanity in general. I would also like to state that Paul is not saying that the Law of God was non existent before Mount Sinai...because where there id no law there is no transgression. He is simply saying man knew not what his sin was until the Law of God was manifested physically. So then there was no longer any excuse for man to say that he did not what his sin was, because the Law pointed it out...so sin became increasingly sinful through the Law of God in which identifies our sin. It was already sin before, but now that we see it and identify it as sin but yet still choose to do it anyway, then it becomes all the more sinful. For if a man knows to do right, but chooses not to, to him it is sin] l was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died [the wages of sin is death. Sin cannot kill if it is not alive. "The sting of sin is death and the power of sin is the Law". The Law of God identifies sin. It animates sin by bringing it to light. Sin then does it's job...which is to separate us from God...which eventually reaps death, because God is the way, truth, and LIFE...Jesus is the resurrection and the LIFE. If you are totally separated from the LIFE through sin you will die. Simple as that. So ultimately, the Law is what causes death. It did this through the carnal extension which prescribed mortal death, but also through the identification and animation of sin...for all sin is a transgression of the Law. The Law of God on it's own right cannot save carnal people from sin...for the Law of God is Spiritual and the flesh is not subject to it. The Law is not the problen, the flesh is the problem. When carnal people try to obey the spiritual Law of God on their own right, it just causes the ease of sin to be all the more enticing by contrast. This is what happened to the Pharisees...who unfortunately did not have God's Spirit]. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death [If God intended for life to be brought through the Law of God does that mean He failed? By no means! The Law of God is a spiritual entity, but it in itself is not alive and active. It cannot bring life on its own right. It can only condemn...seeing as it is God's standard for judging sin. The flesh is incompatible to the Spiritual Law of God's character...the flesh is not subject to God nor can it be...so therefore it must die...that is why we die to the flesh through Christ (not continue to serve the flesh). So did God fail with His intentions to bring life through the Law of God? By no means! If He purposed it to bring life, then that is what it does...even to this very day. The "problem" that God ran into was, "What do we do in the meantime until the saviour comes?" He answered this question by adding a massive Law (in accordance to the transgressions to His Own Spiritual Law) as an extension, in which tells carnal beings how to atleast attempt to keep the spiritual Law of God, so that there can be a guardian in place until the necessary sin-saviour appears. The solution He came up with was to give this carnal based law indirectly through angels, so that it could be received unto a mediator (Moses) and given to the people that God set apart according to the flesh (OC Israel)...that way God could cleanse His hands of the Mosaic Law and set it aside without it actually being eternal in itself once it was fulfilled. So then thereafter, He sent His Son (Abraham's Seed) to be born under that same carnal law, so that He could fulfill the just requirements of that angelic law (it was added because of transgressions. So the only way to fulfill it was to send someone who had a complete lack of transgressions...We all died through the transgression of one man, and now we can all be made alive through the righteousness of one man). Nowadays--in the age of grace--that Old Covenant is over, but the basis of that Covenant (the Law of God; "the Covrnant Law") is still intact (renewed). The Law of God still is what technically gives life...but God poured out His Spirit to humans so that they would have a Way to keep that Law...what is that Way? The WAY, the Truth, and the Life, of course. The only Way to be saved from sin is by not sinning (transgressing) anymore (by imitating Jesus' sinless character) while simultaneously being cleansed from the consequences of one's past sin (through justification by the sacrifice of the Son of God and therefore the gift of the Holy Spirit)...both of these things can only be done through Jesus Christ and His Spirit....not on our own right. Not by the carnal works of the Mosaic Law. No flesh will be justified (initially nor ultimately) through the works of the Law (of Moses)...because for one thing, the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sins. Yet it is not the hearers of the Law (of God) who will be (ultimately) justified (through retaining the initial justification found in Christ by repenting in accordance to what God calls sin, and then continuing to abide in Christ...also known as the Word) but the doers of the Law (of God) that shall be (ultimately) justified.
Jesus even said: "If you will enter life, keep the commandments" yet he also said: "Take up your cross and follow (imitate) Me." If the wages of sin is death, then by contrast, obedience reaps life. The Way to keeping the commandments and entering eternal Life is only found in the Way, Truth, and the Life...who is the Word]. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death [Sin deceived man into thinking that whenever one kept a commandment or two, that they were therefore being righteous and that their righteousness made up for their other sins, but the reality is that even if one keeps all nine but breaks one then they are still a sinner worthy of death. This is what hallened to the Pharisees]. So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good [the Law of God is not the problem...the problem is our flesh...so then, why would God do away with the Law and allow our flesh to rule? That makes no sense at all. Wouldn't God instead get rid of that which is unholy (our flesh) by circumcising it and therefore causing us to die to that which is unholy and lawless? He already said that His Commandments are not burdensome. So why does everyone "teach" that God has gotten rid of the Law of God, and instead choose to "teach" that we are saved instantly no matter what our flesh does? Probably because they don't understand the difference between the Law of Moses and the Law of God...probably because they don't understand certain tenses of verbs (i.e. "shall be saved")...probably because these false teachers are carnal and can only understand things at face value. Ultimately, it is the Law of God that condemns us. The Law itself is not death invoking, but rather the sin that it brings alive (through recognition) is the killer. The extension of the Law of God is a more direct killer...it teaches fleshly beings to purge the willful sinners by ordering mortal death for the transgressions of God's Law... it is to illustrate the Spiritual death that transgression causes. But ultimately the path of the power of death sprouts from the Law of God (in an indirect manner). The Law is Holy. It is the Mark. If anyone misses that mark they have thus sinned. The mark defines the mark-missings. There is a consequence for everything. The consequence for someone that is made in the image of an eternal God that misses the mark of His eternal character is eternal death. its as simple as that. So in an ultimate since, the decalogue is "the ministry of death" in and of itself if there is no spiritual savior to accompany them ("Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone") because the initial ministry brought the death-inputing Law of Moses as an extension and it even further goes beyond that by being the recognizer of sin, which causes absolute death...maybe that is why the stone tablets are pictured to like head stones (even though it is said that they actually were sapphire rectangles)] Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means [again, the Law itself is not death, but the sin that it recognizes is what brings death. So through the recognition of sin, it brings life and power to sin...so in an ultimate sense the commandments are "the ministry of death" in an indirect manner...this is only because the Law is powerless to save on its own right because it is not a living entity]! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful ["If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them". Therefore, sin becomes all the more sinful if man sees his sin, yet still falls short of God's righteous Character]. I [my spirit] do not understand what I [my flesh] do. For what I [my spirit] want to do I [my flesh] do not do, but what I [my spirit] hate I [my flesh] do. And if I [my flesh; the old man] do what I [the spirit; inner man; new man] do not want to do, I [my flesh] agree that the law [of God] is good. As it is, it is no longer I [the true me: my spirit] myself who do it, but it is sin living in me [my sinful flesh]. For I [my spirit] know that good itself does not dwell in me [my flesh], that is, in my sinful nature [again, flesh]. For I [my spirit] have the desire to do what is good, but I [my spirit] cannot carry it out [not alone, the desires of the flesh are too strong]. For I [my flesh] do not do the good I [my spirit] want to do, but the evil I [my spirit] do not want to do--this I [my flesh] keep on doing [that is, if I am striving to be righteous on my own strength]. Now if I [my flesh] do what I [my spirit] do not want to do, it is no longer I [my true self: the inner man] who do it, but it is sin living in me [that is, my flesh] that does it [Paul is still speaking on the behalf of humanity, he is not speaking of himself]. So I find this law at work: Although I [my spirit] want to do good , evil is right there with me [my flesh; temptation]. For in my inner being I [my spirit] delight in God's law [as a human that has a spirit, a spirit that is composed of the breath of God]; but I [my spirit] see another law [of sin and the consequences of sin: death. Death that is both mortal and Eternal] at work in me [my flesh], waging war against the law of my mind [The Law of the LORD] and making me [my flesh] a prisoner [slave] of the law of sin at work within me [my flesh]. What a wretched man I [my flesh] am! Who will rescue me from this [fleshly] body that is subject to death [that is, circumcise me from my flesh and ultimately save me from sin]? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself [true spiritual self] in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin ["So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh"; "The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace."] Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are [truly] in Christ Jesus [What does it mean to abide in Christ? Obey God, who is Christ. How? Obey the Word...who is also Christ: "IN HIM (the Word) you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ" ...So now that we are circumcised of our carnality we can obey God's Law with our true selves. But if we choose to stay slaves to our flesh we shall die. Many don't realize that a circumcision can be reversed and the foreskin can be restored. This is done by repeatedly stretching the foreskin until one is back into an uncircumcised state again. So it also is with the circumcision of Christ]
I (my flesh) want to do all kinds of sinful things even as we speak. That doesn't change. I (my flesh) would love nothing more than to do a nice fat shot of ice. I (my flesh) would love nothing more than to smoke a pack of cigarettes. I (my flesh) would love nothing more than to go back to watching porn and having sex with women. I (my flesh) would love to go back to listening to sinful music. Yet I (my spirit) hate doing these things because of the chaos and havoc that they reap in my life. I (my spirit) love to be at peace. I (my spirit) know that the wages of these things are death. Yet I (my flesh) don't care, but I (my flesh) just want to have a quick pleasurable thrill, and then pay for it later. I (my spirit) was sown in light. I (my flesh) was sown in darkness. My spirit and my flesh are both opposed to each other in order to keep me from doing the things that I (my spirit and also I my flesh) want to do. When I (my spirit) came into me (my flesh) I became a living soul with a mind, a will, and a range of emotions. I (my soul) have a knowledge of both good (my spirit and the law thereof) and evil (my flesh and the pleasures thereof). My soul has the will to choose God or reject God. If my soul sins it shall die. If my soul chooses Life I shall live. For "Those who obey him will not be punished. Those who are wise will find a time and a way to do what is right [including properly keeping the Sabbath completely holy]" (Ecc. 8:5). "Let the conclusion of all of these thoughts be heard: Fear God and obey his commandments, for this is what it means to be human [made in the image of a righteous God]." (Ecc. 12:13) But yet I (my soul) cannot obey God's Law if my spirit is separated from God through the darkness of my flesh...because "Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good." (ecc. 9:18) I must have my flesh put off through the power of Christ, so that I (my soul) will obey God and not my flesh. I (my soul) must not contemplate the things of my flesh, so that lust will not be born in my heart...which leads to sin...which leads to death.
WARNING: Its quite long.
"What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, 'You shall not covet.' Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died [this statement clarifies that Paul is in fact speaking metaphorically here. Was Paul alive before God gave Moses the ten commandments? No. Of course not. He is speaking on the behalf of humanity in general. I would also like to state that Paul is not saying that the Law of God was non existent before Mount Sinai...because where there id no law there is no transgression. He is simply saying man knew not what his sin was until the Law of God was manifested physically. So then there was no longer any excuse for man to say that he did not what his sin was, because the Law pointed it out...so sin became increasingly sinful through the Law of God in which identifies our sin. It was already sin before, but now that we see it and identify it as sin but yet still choose to do it anyway, then it becomes all the more sinful. For if a man knows to do right, but chooses not to, to him it is sin] l was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died [the wages of sin is death. Sin cannot kill if it is not alive. "The sting of sin is death and the power of sin is the Law". The Law of God identifies sin. It animates sin by bringing it to light. Sin then does it's job...which is to separate us from God...which eventually reaps death, because God is the way, truth, and LIFE...Jesus is the resurrection and the LIFE. If you are totally separated from the LIFE through sin you will die. Simple as that. So ultimately, the Law is what causes death. It did this through the carnal extension which prescribed mortal death, but also through the identification and animation of sin...for all sin is a transgression of the Law. The Law of God on it's own right cannot save carnal people from sin...for the Law of God is Spiritual and the flesh is not subject to it. The Law is not the problen, the flesh is the problem. When carnal people try to obey the spiritual Law of God on their own right, it just causes the ease of sin to be all the more enticing by contrast. This is what happened to the Pharisees...who unfortunately did not have God's Spirit]. I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death [If God intended for life to be brought through the Law of God does that mean He failed? By no means! The Law of God is a spiritual entity, but it in itself is not alive and active. It cannot bring life on its own right. It can only condemn...seeing as it is God's standard for judging sin. The flesh is incompatible to the Spiritual Law of God's character...the flesh is not subject to God nor can it be...so therefore it must die...that is why we die to the flesh through Christ (not continue to serve the flesh). So did God fail with His intentions to bring life through the Law of God? By no means! If He purposed it to bring life, then that is what it does...even to this very day. The "problem" that God ran into was, "What do we do in the meantime until the saviour comes?" He answered this question by adding a massive Law (in accordance to the transgressions to His Own Spiritual Law) as an extension, in which tells carnal beings how to atleast attempt to keep the spiritual Law of God, so that there can be a guardian in place until the necessary sin-saviour appears. The solution He came up with was to give this carnal based law indirectly through angels, so that it could be received unto a mediator (Moses) and given to the people that God set apart according to the flesh (OC Israel)...that way God could cleanse His hands of the Mosaic Law and set it aside without it actually being eternal in itself once it was fulfilled. So then thereafter, He sent His Son (Abraham's Seed) to be born under that same carnal law, so that He could fulfill the just requirements of that angelic law (it was added because of transgressions. So the only way to fulfill it was to send someone who had a complete lack of transgressions...We all died through the transgression of one man, and now we can all be made alive through the righteousness of one man). Nowadays--in the age of grace--that Old Covenant is over, but the basis of that Covenant (the Law of God; "the Covrnant Law") is still intact (renewed). The Law of God still is what technically gives life...but God poured out His Spirit to humans so that they would have a Way to keep that Law...what is that Way? The WAY, the Truth, and the Life, of course. The only Way to be saved from sin is by not sinning (transgressing) anymore (by imitating Jesus' sinless character) while simultaneously being cleansed from the consequences of one's past sin (through justification by the sacrifice of the Son of God and therefore the gift of the Holy Spirit)...both of these things can only be done through Jesus Christ and His Spirit....not on our own right. Not by the carnal works of the Mosaic Law. No flesh will be justified (initially nor ultimately) through the works of the Law (of Moses)...because for one thing, the blood of bulls and goats cannot take away sins. Yet it is not the hearers of the Law (of God) who will be (ultimately) justified (through retaining the initial justification found in Christ by repenting in accordance to what God calls sin, and then continuing to abide in Christ...also known as the Word) but the doers of the Law (of God) that shall be (ultimately) justified.
Jesus even said: "If you will enter life, keep the commandments" yet he also said: "Take up your cross and follow (imitate) Me." If the wages of sin is death, then by contrast, obedience reaps life. The Way to keeping the commandments and entering eternal Life is only found in the Way, Truth, and the Life...who is the Word]. For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death [Sin deceived man into thinking that whenever one kept a commandment or two, that they were therefore being righteous and that their righteousness made up for their other sins, but the reality is that even if one keeps all nine but breaks one then they are still a sinner worthy of death. This is what hallened to the Pharisees]. So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good [the Law of God is not the problem...the problem is our flesh...so then, why would God do away with the Law and allow our flesh to rule? That makes no sense at all. Wouldn't God instead get rid of that which is unholy (our flesh) by circumcising it and therefore causing us to die to that which is unholy and lawless? He already said that His Commandments are not burdensome. So why does everyone "teach" that God has gotten rid of the Law of God, and instead choose to "teach" that we are saved instantly no matter what our flesh does? Probably because they don't understand the difference between the Law of Moses and the Law of God...probably because they don't understand certain tenses of verbs (i.e. "shall be saved")...probably because these false teachers are carnal and can only understand things at face value. Ultimately, it is the Law of God that condemns us. The Law itself is not death invoking, but rather the sin that it brings alive (through recognition) is the killer. The extension of the Law of God is a more direct killer...it teaches fleshly beings to purge the willful sinners by ordering mortal death for the transgressions of God's Law... it is to illustrate the Spiritual death that transgression causes. But ultimately the path of the power of death sprouts from the Law of God (in an indirect manner). The Law is Holy. It is the Mark. If anyone misses that mark they have thus sinned. The mark defines the mark-missings. There is a consequence for everything. The consequence for someone that is made in the image of an eternal God that misses the mark of His eternal character is eternal death. its as simple as that. So in an ultimate since, the decalogue is "the ministry of death" in and of itself if there is no spiritual savior to accompany them ("Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone") because the initial ministry brought the death-inputing Law of Moses as an extension and it even further goes beyond that by being the recognizer of sin, which causes absolute death...maybe that is why the stone tablets are pictured to like head stones (even though it is said that they actually were sapphire rectangles)] Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means [again, the Law itself is not death, but the sin that it recognizes is what brings death. So through the recognition of sin, it brings life and power to sin...so in an ultimate sense the commandments are "the ministry of death" in an indirect manner...this is only because the Law is powerless to save on its own right because it is not a living entity]! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful ["If anyone, then, knows the good they ought to do and doesn't do it, it is sin for them". Therefore, sin becomes all the more sinful if man sees his sin, yet still falls short of God's righteous Character]. I [my spirit] do not understand what I [my flesh] do. For what I [my spirit] want to do I [my flesh] do not do, but what I [my spirit] hate I [my flesh] do. And if I [my flesh; the old man] do what I [the spirit; inner man; new man] do not want to do, I [my flesh] agree that the law [of God] is good. As it is, it is no longer I [the true me: my spirit] myself who do it, but it is sin living in me [my sinful flesh]. For I [my spirit] know that good itself does not dwell in me [my flesh], that is, in my sinful nature [again, flesh]. For I [my spirit] have the desire to do what is good, but I [my spirit] cannot carry it out [not alone, the desires of the flesh are too strong]. For I [my flesh] do not do the good I [my spirit] want to do, but the evil I [my spirit] do not want to do--this I [my flesh] keep on doing [that is, if I am striving to be righteous on my own strength]. Now if I [my flesh] do what I [my spirit] do not want to do, it is no longer I [my true self: the inner man] who do it, but it is sin living in me [that is, my flesh] that does it [Paul is still speaking on the behalf of humanity, he is not speaking of himself]. So I find this law at work: Although I [my spirit] want to do good , evil is right there with me [my flesh; temptation]. For in my inner being I [my spirit] delight in God's law [as a human that has a spirit, a spirit that is composed of the breath of God]; but I [my spirit] see another law [of sin and the consequences of sin: death. Death that is both mortal and Eternal] at work in me [my flesh], waging war against the law of my mind [The Law of the LORD] and making me [my flesh] a prisoner [slave] of the law of sin at work within me [my flesh]. What a wretched man I [my flesh] am! Who will rescue me from this [fleshly] body that is subject to death [that is, circumcise me from my flesh and ultimately save me from sin]? Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself [true spiritual self] in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin ["So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh"; "The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace."] Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are [truly] in Christ Jesus [What does it mean to abide in Christ? Obey God, who is Christ. How? Obey the Word...who is also Christ: "IN HIM (the Word) you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ" ...So now that we are circumcised of our carnality we can obey God's Law with our true selves. But if we choose to stay slaves to our flesh we shall die. Many don't realize that a circumcision can be reversed and the foreskin can be restored. This is done by repeatedly stretching the foreskin until one is back into an uncircumcised state again. So it also is with the circumcision of Christ]
I (my flesh) want to do all kinds of sinful things even as we speak. That doesn't change. I (my flesh) would love nothing more than to do a nice fat shot of ice. I (my flesh) would love nothing more than to smoke a pack of cigarettes. I (my flesh) would love nothing more than to go back to watching porn and having sex with women. I (my flesh) would love to go back to listening to sinful music. Yet I (my spirit) hate doing these things because of the chaos and havoc that they reap in my life. I (my spirit) love to be at peace. I (my spirit) know that the wages of these things are death. Yet I (my flesh) don't care, but I (my flesh) just want to have a quick pleasurable thrill, and then pay for it later. I (my spirit) was sown in light. I (my flesh) was sown in darkness. My spirit and my flesh are both opposed to each other in order to keep me from doing the things that I (my spirit and also I my flesh) want to do. When I (my spirit) came into me (my flesh) I became a living soul with a mind, a will, and a range of emotions. I (my soul) have a knowledge of both good (my spirit and the law thereof) and evil (my flesh and the pleasures thereof). My soul has the will to choose God or reject God. If my soul sins it shall die. If my soul chooses Life I shall live. For "Those who obey him will not be punished. Those who are wise will find a time and a way to do what is right [including properly keeping the Sabbath completely holy]" (Ecc. 8:5). "Let the conclusion of all of these thoughts be heard: Fear God and obey his commandments, for this is what it means to be human [made in the image of a righteous God]." (Ecc. 12:13) But yet I (my soul) cannot obey God's Law if my spirit is separated from God through the darkness of my flesh...because "Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good." (ecc. 9:18) I must have my flesh put off through the power of Christ, so that I (my soul) will obey God and not my flesh. I (my soul) must not contemplate the things of my flesh, so that lust will not be born in my heart...which leads to sin...which leads to death.
My friend. There is a Law of carnal works and a Law of Faith. Faith without works is dead. Can one be saved by such a faith? The Law of Moses was added because of transgressions. Yet where there is no Law there is no transgression. Get what I am saying? One was written By God and the other by Moses. One Law shows us how sinful were in our original state by how enormous in size it is (613 decrees) and therefore how tremendous our transgressions were in order for it to be added in the first place. The other shows us what our sin is so we might repent of it and thus follow Christ and therefore be saved from sin. For it is not hearers of the Law that will be justified, but only the doers. Yet no one will be justified through the carnal works of the Mosaic Law. You need to go and trust in the Holy Spirit to help you figure out the difference between the two types of justifications found in Christ and the distinction between the Covenant Law and the Book of the Law of Moses. Ezekiel 33:12 might help you to understand how declared righteousness works.
Sanctification happens the moment you are washed by the blood of Christ-the perfect sacrifice.
To sin after that just manifests that the repentance from sin was a lie.
You can't forge a relationship with God that is based on a lie.
If we commit sin, we are not in Christ...as there is no sin in Christ.
Thank God for giving us a way to crucify and bury the "flesh".
Having done so, we are no longer slaves to it.
When my old self was killed, and I was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, my old nature was also eliminated in favor of a divine nature.
Lanolin
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If your flesh has been crucified and died...you wont want to think sinful thoughts.
If your mind has been renewed it wont be thinking those thoughts plus Jesus said to be singleminded not doubleminded. Now we know the brain has two halves...two hemispheres, and theres this thing in the brain called the corpus callosum. It connects the two sides together. When this is interferes with you get some interesting results. Its observed that criminals often have part of their brain damaged or missing, its not whole so the brain separates itself into compartments and still tries to function on the deficit.
The way I explain it (and I have studied a bit of neuroscience, so bear with me) is when we take thoughts captive to Christ, he filters out the lies and garbage. It gets put into part of the brain that says 'thats rubbish' and then like the trash can of your computer it gets emptied and never seen again.
God wants us to think lovely thoughts and think on thing that are true and of good report. HE doesnt want us to look back and go, if only I could go back to egypt or sodom. The more we spend time with God the more our mid gets renewed with His word, the less time we will spend around the stinking garbage heap. And you know the less garbage we will have because His word does not return back empty. Its food for our souls and there to make us holy and perfect.
If one is sinning in their mind and heart, that is just as bad because you are to love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your mind all your soul and all your strength. You cant be doubleminded and go do one thing and think another. The word does not say...follow Jesus just some of the time. Jesus isnt having any of that! He knows the thoughts of men and wasnt fooled by Judas pretending to follow Him.
If your mind has been renewed it wont be thinking those thoughts plus Jesus said to be singleminded not doubleminded. Now we know the brain has two halves...two hemispheres, and theres this thing in the brain called the corpus callosum. It connects the two sides together. When this is interferes with you get some interesting results. Its observed that criminals often have part of their brain damaged or missing, its not whole so the brain separates itself into compartments and still tries to function on the deficit.
The way I explain it (and I have studied a bit of neuroscience, so bear with me) is when we take thoughts captive to Christ, he filters out the lies and garbage. It gets put into part of the brain that says 'thats rubbish' and then like the trash can of your computer it gets emptied and never seen again.
God wants us to think lovely thoughts and think on thing that are true and of good report. HE doesnt want us to look back and go, if only I could go back to egypt or sodom. The more we spend time with God the more our mid gets renewed with His word, the less time we will spend around the stinking garbage heap. And you know the less garbage we will have because His word does not return back empty. Its food for our souls and there to make us holy and perfect.
If one is sinning in their mind and heart, that is just as bad because you are to love the Lord your God with all your heart, and all your mind all your soul and all your strength. You cant be doubleminded and go do one thing and think another. The word does not say...follow Jesus just some of the time. Jesus isnt having any of that! He knows the thoughts of men and wasnt fooled by Judas pretending to follow Him.
I couldn't agree more.
You use the "picture" of two halves of a brain; to filter out the bad gunk.
I use the "picture" of a TV set.
When the garbage tries to take hold, I switch the channel.
Dave M
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I agree with that
Dave M
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not sure whear you got that Mosses wrote the law, God told him what to write
The Mosaic Law was given specifically to the nation of Israel (Exodus 19; Leviticus 26:46; Romans 9:4). It was made up of three parts: the Ten Commandments, the ordinances, and the worship system, which included the priesthood, the tabernacle, the offerings, and the festivals (Exodus 20—40; Leviticus 1—7; 23). The purpose of the Mosaic Law was to accomplish the following:
(1) Reveal the holy character of the eternal God to the nation of Israel (Leviticus 19:2; 20:7–8).
(2) Set apart the nation of Israel as distinct from all the other nations (Exodus 19:5).
(3) Reveal the sinfulness of man (cf. Galatians 3:19). Although the Law was good and holy (Romans 7:12), it did not provide salvation for the nation of Israel. “No one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin” (Romans 3:20; cf. Acts 13:38–39).
(4) Provide forgiveness through the sacrifice/offerings (Leviticus 1—7) for the people who had faith in the Lord in the nation of Israel.
(5) Provide a way of worship for the community of faith through the yearly feasts (Leviticus 23).
(6) Provide God’s direction for the physical and spiritual health of the nation (Exodus 21—23; Deuteronomy 6:4–19; Psalm 119:97–104).
(7) Cause people, after Christ came, to see that they couldn’t keep the Law but needed to accept Christ as personal Savior, for He had fulfilled the Law in His life and paid the penalty for our breaking it in His death, burial, and bodily resurrection (Galatians 3:24; Romans 10:4). The believer in Christ has the very righteousness of the Law fulfilled in him as he obeys the Holy Spirit who lives within him (Romans 8:4).
The purpose of the Mosaic Law raises these questions: “Are you trusting in yourself to keep all the Ten Commandments all the time (which you can’t do)?” OR “Have you made the choice to accept Jesus as your Savior, realizing that He has fulfilled all the commandments all the time for you, even paying your penalty for breaking them?” The choice is yours.
What is the purpose of the Mosaic Law?
I am trusting in Jesus, so I can keep all the ten commandments all the time.
So for it's working just fine.
Thanks be to God.
Dave M
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good luck being under the law, I prefer grace myself.
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- James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.....All I can say about your above statement is: Good luck with that 24/7 the rest of your life.
- If you knew your Bible, you would know that the law was never meant to save. The problem was not the Law, the law was given by God and is perfect...the problem was man....he couldn't keep the law and neither can you.
- With the Old Covenant, the law ended every year with the Day of Atonement where the law and sacrifices "Covered over Sins" until the Next years "Day of Atonement".
- 1 John 3:5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. You are saved by Grace through Faith, not the law...Jesus took away sins from the sight of God for all time...not you beleaguered attempts at keeping the law.
- Romans 3:20 'because by the works of the Law no flesh shall be justified in His sight; for though the Law comes the knowledge of sin.'... not salvation.
- Ephesians 2:8-9 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
Lanolin
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Well theres only two commandments christians need to keep and by keeping those we fufill all the other commandments.
As a gentile christian the OT is a great book to see how our adoped ancestors went about trying to keep all the commandments, some failed and some succeeded but only Jesus could fulfill them all...it is by having faith in Jesus that we can now keep them in our hearts.
paul as a pharisee struggled to keep every commandment (and they kept adding more to what God had specified) but it led him to do some incredibly unrighteous things like persecuting christians. When he got saved and converted God gave him grace to be able to keep the commandments and love one another. His grace was sufficient. Did Paul then sin, after being set free by Jesus no he did not but he suffered a lot! He stopped persecuting christians and became a great missionary for Christ to the gentiles. Even when he was in danger or tempted to become proud of his achievements God humbled him and kept him humble so he was able to boast of his infirmities - he was stoned, beaten, in a shipwreck,, accused falsely, nearly got killed by lions (yes they fed christians to lions back in the day) and still by the grace of God survive to tell the gospel praise the Lord.
As a gentile christian the OT is a great book to see how our adoped ancestors went about trying to keep all the commandments, some failed and some succeeded but only Jesus could fulfill them all...it is by having faith in Jesus that we can now keep them in our hearts.
paul as a pharisee struggled to keep every commandment (and they kept adding more to what God had specified) but it led him to do some incredibly unrighteous things like persecuting christians. When he got saved and converted God gave him grace to be able to keep the commandments and love one another. His grace was sufficient. Did Paul then sin, after being set free by Jesus no he did not but he suffered a lot! He stopped persecuting christians and became a great missionary for Christ to the gentiles. Even when he was in danger or tempted to become proud of his achievements God humbled him and kept him humble so he was able to boast of his infirmities - he was stoned, beaten, in a shipwreck,, accused falsely, nearly got killed by lions (yes they fed christians to lions back in the day) and still by the grace of God survive to tell the gospel praise the Lord.
You underestimate the grace given by God.
It has enabled me to remain steadfast and without wavering in Christ...wherein is no sin.
Is it really so hard for you to tell the truth, or remain faithful to your spouse?
I am under the law of Christ, ie. love God above all else and my neighbor as myself.
And God provides the grace to do it.
For example, he has provided this truth..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." (1 Cor 10:13)
It is written..."That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord." ((Romans 5:21)
Grace reigns through righteousness.
Sin cannot manifest the grace of God.
If you are inferring that obedience to God means keeping the Law of Moses, I agree...in the sense that as reborn men who have crucified the old man and are living in Christ will do exactly as God wishes all the time.
That would include keeping the commandments.
We have divine natures since the old man was killed, buried, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
No man born of God would kill, steal, commit adultery, lie, or blaspheme. ect.
The seed we have been regendered by cannot bring forth evil fruit-sin.
We don't "keep the law" in order to be saved, we keep it because it is part of loving God above all else.
If you think being a Christian allows you to break a commandment, you are deceived..
As you posted..."And in Him is no sin." (1 John 3:5)
Dave M
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Peice when was the last time you took a homeless person home with you and fed and clothed him, because that is loving your neighbor as yourself, would you lay your life down for that homeless man??
yes our hearts change big time when we are save we are not the same any longer, you remind me of the parable of the young rich guy. he is the only one claiming to have kept all the commandment in the bible that I am aware of
Peice keep seeking Jesus your zeal for Christ is good my freind your understanding is lacking, God Bless you
Matthew 19:16-30
And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?”
yes our hearts change big time when we are save we are not the same any longer, you remind me of the parable of the young rich guy. he is the only one claiming to have kept all the commandment in the bible that I am aware of
Peice keep seeking Jesus your zeal for Christ is good my freind your understanding is lacking, God Bless you
Matthew 19:16-30
And behold, a man came up to him, saying, “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” And he said to him, “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” He said to him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother, and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” The young man said to him, “All these I have kept. What do I still lack?”
I've never met a homeless guy who wanted to come home with me.
To elaborate further on what God has compelled me to do would only seem like bragging.
When was the last time you invited a homeless person home with you?
Yep. not the same any longer.
Especially when it comes to rebellion against the wishes of God.
To what end?
So I can defend sin with you?
No thanks.
I can see through Jesus' intent here, and I believe Jesus was good.
As we have gracefully been allowed to be "in Christ", since His resurrection, we too can be "good".
The final judgement hinges on it.
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Excuse me.....you THINK Jesus was good?!
